Should we really be this worried about Macc's ability?

[jetstream23]

 

Unfortunately, our squirrel has not!

[varjet]

21 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Besides not taking Hack I don't know what more Macc could QB wise to put us in a better position right now.

If you believe in Watson and Mahomes that's fine but they have such a small sample size of NFL playing time. Mariota, Winston, Goff, and Wentz were not available for him to take and people have said he's tried to trade up.

I just don't see the guy in the drafts he's had that's a proven QB that he passed on. Dak Prescott? I can't believe that Prescott would be as good here as he was in Dallas for last year and most of this year. The guy has throwing problems. A lot of people wanted him to take Paxton Lynch and he stayed away.

Whose the guy he could have had in FA that he missed the boat on? The only guy who comes to mind in Case Keenum whose showing he can play. Who else? Mike Glennon? Jay Cutler? I think McCown is a better signing than both of those guys because he was much cheaper and we knew he wasn't the answer at QB.

I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't think Macc has had a real shot to land a real QB, unless I'm missing somebody. This off season its looks like there is going to be a pretty good FA market and draft class of QBs available. I think its fair to give him this off season to try and land his guy.

I agree with this generally and agree that Mac has not had great opportunities to draft QBs.  In 2016 and 2017 this was not a team that was QB short.  To me, Mac has come up short due to:

• His drafting generally-players and strategy.
• The severity of his misses.  When he has missed, he has really missed.
• Drafting Hack above the 6th round was just GM gross negligence.  Look at where guys like Prescott, Peterman and Webb got picked.   Hack was not close to a 2nd round draft pick based on his college career.
• Petty was a bad pick, but slightly more understandable. 

I don't fault him for passing on Watson.  Maybe Mahomes.  We all thought there would be issues with Watson playing outside at MetLife.  I do fault Mac for passing on Lattimore.  

[Integrity28]

Maccccc is 1/5 on QB position since he’s been here. On decent year of Fitz to protect us from Geno. That’s not inspiring.

His average gets worse if you consider Fitz cost us the playoffs in week 17. Or if you consider the trades he tried, and failed, to pull off.

Worrying is justified.

[UnitedWhofans]

Interesting question, and I agree with the general nature of the article,

Is there a GM who has drafted 2 franchise QBs? I mean basically you draft one and that's it.

I think Macc can spot QB talent. The two QBs that he has brought in FA worked out okay. Both had solid seasons. But the long term aspect is the problem

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, Fibonacci said:

Mac has proven clueless when it comes to finding a QB. But when your owner is clueless about finding the right coach and GM, you kind of keep quiet about your incompetent GM. 

He has been a GM for a grand total of three years and whiffed on two picks. Not exactly proof that he is clueless. He has the opportunity to prove if he is competent or incompetent this year with the 6th pick and two 2nd rounders. If finding a franchise QB was that easy, all 32 teams would have one.

[UnitedWhofans]

17 minutes ago, varjet said:

I agree with this generally and agree that Mac has not had great opportunities to draft QBs.  In 2016 and 2017 this was not a team that was QB short.  To me, Mac has come up short due to:

• His drafting generally-players and strategy.
• The severity of his misses.  When he has missed, he has really missed.
• Drafting Hack above the 6th round was just GM gross negligence.  Look at where guys like Prescott, Peterman and Webb got picked.   Hack was not close to a 2nd round draft pick based on his college career.
• Petty was a bad pick, but slightly more understandable. 

I don't fault him for passing on Watson.  Maybe Mahomes.  We all thought there would be issues with Watson playing outside at MetLife.  I do fault Mac for passing on Lattimore.  

1. OUtside of Hackenberg and Smith to a degree (and I'm being kind with that one), when has he really missed?

2. Not in the 4th round it wasnt

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

26 minutes ago, HessStation said:

He's been horrible. I've been pretty tolerant with a wait and see approach, haven't really got on him, wanted to give him at least three years. And horrible, just horrible to this point. 

He's done a pretty good job. You must be watching a different GM.

[HessStation]

17 minutes ago, varjet said:

I agree with this generally and agree that Mac has not had great opportunities to draft QBs.  In 2016 and 2017 this was not a team that was QB short.  To me, Mac has come up short due to:

• His drafting generally-players and strategy.
• The severity of his misses.  When he has missed, he has really missed.
• Drafting Hack above the 6th round was just GM gross negligence.  Look at where guys like Prescott, Peterman and Webb got picked.   Hack was not close to a 2nd round draft pick based on his college career.
• Petty was a bad pick, but slightly more understandable. 

I don't fault him for passing on Watson.  Maybe Mahomes.  We all thought there would be issues with Watson playing outside at MetLife.  I do fault Mac for passing on Lattimore.  

I would have traded down and took Foster.

 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, HessStation said:

I would have traded down and took Foster.

 

To say he's been horrible is not true. He's been okay. And that is fair IMO

[Gangrene]

Count me in as someone who is worried about Mac's GM'ing abilities.

My guess is Mahones not Watson, in time, will be the one that Mac will be remembered for missing on. Drafting Hackenberg in the second round seems like McCagnan is a guy who is fixated on measurables not so much the football player/leader/.

Will McCagnan stick to his track record prioritising QB measurables or will he adapt ? My best guess is that he pays Cousins a fortune because he realises, this may be his last rodeo as GM unless he trends upwards in the next twelve months. Any rookie qb is a risk for a GM that has not made the playoffs going into his fourth year.

 Everything points to the Browns not drafting Rosen. There is so much media noise about GM's questioning Rosen's love for the game/attitude, I could see the conservative Giants passing on him. If that happens and Rosen is there at three, McCagnan may also be remembered for not trading up with the Colts to three (or the Browns at four, if the Colts draft Barkley at three).

I question Rosen's ability to stay healthy but for me, that's the only real concern.

With Baker Mayfield, I expect he will be there at 6 but again, I'm not sure that Macagnan would risk his dwindling time as GM on a 6' rookie.

[varjet]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

1. OUtside of Hackenberg and Smith to a degree (and I'm being kind with that one), when has he really missed?

2. Not in the 4th round it wasnt

1.  2015-Devin Smith was a complete miss when you look who was picked after him.  That was a need pick.  Jarvis Harrison was a complete bust, even given where he was taken-Worse than Jalen Saunders.  Many much better players picked after Mauldin (David Johnson?)-another need pick.  Petty was a not a complete miss.

2016-Hack was a complete, complete miss.  

2017-Stewart over Pat Elflein, when your C was Wes Johnson for 4x as much money, was a complete miss.  I think Dylan Donahue proves to be a short-armed bust.  

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, varjet said:

1.  2015-Devin Smith was a complete miss when you look who was picked after him.  That was a need pick.  Jarvis Harrison was a complete bust, even given where he was taken-Worse than Jalen Saunders.  Many much better players picked after Mauldin (David Johnson?)-another need pick.  Petty was a not a complete miss.

2016-Hack was a complete, complete miss.  

2017-Stewart over Pat Elflein, when your C was Wes Johnson for 4x as much money, was a complete miss.  I think Dylan Donahue proves to be a short-armed bust.  

1. Nope. Sorry. It's too early for that one.

2. Smith and Mauldin were hurt by injuries, so you can't really blame the GM for injuries. I'm sorry. That's not fair. So most of your misses are out the window.

Hackenberg and Harrison I will give you

[varjet]

5 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

1. Nope. Sorry. It's too early for that one.

2. Smith and Mauldin were hurt by injuries, so you can't really blame the GM for injuries. I'm sorry. That's not fair. So most of your misses are out the window.

Hackenberg and Harrison I will give you

The word that I have heard is that Smith and Mauldin are both partiers, which probably explain the injuries.  I think looking back at their college careers, stats, SPARQ, etc., a better GM passes them over for someone else.   

Google the 2015 draft and who was picked after those guys.   Mac did not do a good job on his 2015 draft.  Maybe he gets lucky and picks Billy Price in the Second Round, who is actually a better C than Elflein.  We can touch base next year on Smith, Mauldin and Stewart.  

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

The word that I have heard is that Smith and Mauldin are both partiers, which probably explain the injuries.  I think looking back at their college careers, stats, SPARQ, etc., a better GM passes them over for someone else.   

Google the 2015 draft and who was picked after those guys.   Mac did not do a good job on his 2015 draft.  Maybe he gets lucky and picks Billy Price in the Second Round, who is actually a better C than Elflein.  We can touch base next year on Smith, Mauldin and Stewart.  

I gave Macc a D+ for his 2015 Draft. I agree with that general perception.

I will say that every progressive draft has gotten better and better. 

I also want to ask a question. You "seem" to criticize Macc for need picks yet wasn't Elfein a need pick as well? It seems like you are playing both sides of the fence there

[varjet]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I also want to ask a question. You "seem" to criticize Macc for need picks yet wasn't Elfein a need pick as well? It seems like you are playing both sides of the fence there

I criticize need picks that are reaches.  Rounds 3 and below in my view should be need picks.  The Jets desperately needed a C.  One was sitting there waiting for them.  Instead they took an over-aged gadget WR.

Hopefully Stewart turns out to be good and the Jets draft Price.  Price could be a fitter version of Mangold.  

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

I criticize need picks that are reaches.  Rounds 3 and below in my view should be need picks.  The Jets desperately needed a C.  One was sitting there waiting for them.  Instead they took an over-aged gadget WR.

Hopefully Stewart turns out to be good and the Jets draft Price.  Price could be a fitter version of Mangold.  

OK. I just wanted that clarified. I could also see them signing a C in FA

[varjet]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

OK. I just wanted that clarified. I could also see them signing a C in FA

They could.  C is a gaping hole that has to be filled.  It is possible that, after all is said and done, Price goes at the end of the first round.  That seems to be where great Cs have gone historically.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, varjet said:

They could.  C is a gaping hole that has to be filled.  It is possible that, after all is said and done, Price goes at the end of the first round.  That seems to be where great Cs have gone historically.  

I honestly think that Wesley Johnson was a Wayne Hunter clone. Looked good in part time play but struggled hen given the starter's job. It is a big hole

[Jetsplayer21]

Everybody gets lucky once in a while, Mac is definitely due..

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Besides not taking Hack I don't know what more Macc could QB wise to put us in a better position right now.

If you believe in Watson and Mahomes that's fine but they have such a small sample size of NFL playing time. Mariota, Winston, Goff, and Wentz were not available for him to take and people have said he's tried to trade up.

I just don't see the guy in the drafts he's had that's a proven QB that he passed on. Dak Prescott? I can't believe that Prescott would be as good here as he was in Dallas for last year and most of this year. The guy has throwing problems. A lot of people wanted him to take Paxton Lynch and he stayed away.

Whose the guy he could have had in FA that he missed the boat on? The only guy who comes to mind in Case Keenum whose showing he can play. Who else? Mike Glennon? Jay Cutler? I think McCown is a better signing than both of those guys because he was much cheaper and we knew he wasn't the answer at QB.

I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't think Macc has had a real shot to land a real QB, unless I'm missing somebody. This off season its looks like there is going to be a pretty good FA market and draft class of QBs available. I think its fair to give him this off season to try and land his guy.

Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson were not available for the teams that drafted them to take.  Yet they all got their man.  We waited and got Hackenberg.  

[Embrace the Suck]

Connor wrote that as a rhetorical question right?

[#27TheDominator]

42 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

1. Nope. Sorry. It's too early for that one.

2. Smith and Mauldin were hurt by injuries, so you can't really blame the GM for injuries. I'm sorry. That's not fair. So most of your misses are out the window.

Hackenberg and Harrison I will give you

So no misses unless they are healthy scratches for at least two years?  Who are the hits? Three full drafts, name six good players.

[UnknownJetFan]

Thing is many GMs around this league are in the same boat. This is less about scouting and more about college teams simply running schemes with no snaps from center and a lot of one read offenses. This causes too much of an adjustment with most QBs for all mechanics and progressions initially and even when they get that down to some level, handling NFL defenses is then really difficult with protections, processing of info pre/post snap, etc. Why does it seem that Hack cannot handle even the basics during even a preseason game. He probably didn't spend enough time with only his initial year in an NFL type system where his last 2 years he was again in those shotgun systems that built very bad habits for him and others. Between these FA and draft QBs it is even worse than a crap shoot, we are looking at odds at like less than 10% to get even a pretty decent QB that remains fairly durable. How many QBs are looking good out there right now:

Top tier: Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rothlisbuerger, Stafford (all drafted how long ago), Wentz, Goff, Prescott, Watson only 3 to come out from recent College systems and be good, which is because the Offenses on those teams were smart enough to tailor the O towards their strengths.

Middle tier: Rivers, Eli, Dalton, Cousins,  Newton, Ryan, Flacco, Garappalo(sp?), McCennan(sp?), Smith, Carr, Mariota - again all drafted prior to these spread one read college systems. 

Bottom tier: Every other crap QB picked by GMs all over the league where scouting I am sure was good, but the college systems are not transalting to the NFL and neother the NFL or College are on the same page to get in sync with this by improving the situation.

This is why they need a developmental league of some type be it European football, a G-league like NBA where QBs and other players can get 2 way contracts to come up and down(Varsity and JV if you will), etc. Practice squad and Scout team reps. are not cutting it. Why?. Because in the end these teams and QBs especially are going to have make a choice between worrying about injury or playing in live situations where defenders are actually hitting you to gain experience. Practice doesn't do that. Maybe that is how it is done in all sports, but the NFL ratings will just keep going down each year till they resolve this QB situation because nobody wants to continue to watch this where they can have very good teams, but lose their windows of opportunity due to the deficiencies at QB. But, hey the NFL knows so much you know. Lets ask all these conglomerates like them, Atlantic City, etc. who had it easy with a monopoly type situation that when things change and you get either competition you don't adjust to or your market decides they have better things to do than deal with your crappy product, what makes them think they are so smart.    

[MDL_JET]

15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Goff, Wentz, Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson were not available for the teams that drafted them to take.  Yet they all got their man.  We waited and got Hackenberg.  

He failed to make a trade up. I chalk that up to inexperience. It’s not as if he was kicking back and saying we’re good with Fitz. 

Theres been no free agents to go after since he’s been here that I can recall. There’s been no trades to make for a QB already on another team. It’s been the draft and so far he’s come up short with the one real shot he took with Hack. They’ll be other chances. 

 

[legler82]

49 minutes ago, varjet said:

I agree with this generally and agree that Mac has not had great opportunities to draft QBs.  In 2016 and 2017 this was not a team that was QB short.  To me, Mac has come up short due to:

• His drafting generally-players and strategy.
• The severity of his misses.  When he has missed, he has really missed.
• Drafting Hack above the 6th round was just GM gross negligence.  Look at where guys like Prescott, Peterman and Webb got picked.   Hack was not close to a 2nd round draft pick based on his college career.
• Petty was a bad pick, but slightly more understandable. 

I don't fault him for passing on Watson.  Maybe Mahomes.  We all thought there would be issues with Watson playing outside at MetLife.  I do fault Mac for passing on Lattimore.  

There's no maybe about Mahomes; he is totally at fault for passing on Mahomes.  And WHEN NOT IF Mahomes becomes a top NFL QB, he should be crucified for passing on a RARE arm talent like Mahomes for a safety.  This even though the Jets were the team in the top 10 MOST in need of a QB.  Lattimore had a small body of work and injury concerns; it's understandable he and everyone else in the top 10 passed on him.  What was wrong with Mahomes; the fact he came from the "Air Raid"?  If scheme prevented Mac from seeing that Mahomes was the best QB in the draft, then he's not the talent evaluator we thought we were getting when he was hired.   

[MDL_JET]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

There's no maybe about Mahomes; he is totally at fault for passing on Mahomes.  And WHEN NOT IF Mahomes becomes a top NFL QB, he should be crucified for passing on a RARE arm talent like Mahomes for a safety.  This even though the Jets were the team in the top 10 MOST in need of a QB.  Lattimore had a small body of work and injury concerns; it's understandable he and everyone else in the top 10 passed on him.  What was wrong with Mahomes; the fact he came from the "Air Raid"?  If scheme prevented Mac from seeing that Mahomes was the best QB in the draft, then he's not the talent evaluator we thought we were getting when he was hired.   

SF passed on them as well. These guys weren’t locks to go top 10, everyone had questions about each one. They were not seen as no brainers, otherwise I would think SF would have taken one 2nd and not traded out and pass again. 

[Gas2No99]

I have become HIGHLY skeptical of Mac's ability to ID a Pro QB, let alone a Franchise QB (I've eaten CROW and became REALLY disturbed by the Hack pick as time passed and no game action).

McCown was NOT supposed to stave off Mac's 2 "arm talent" QB draft picks, and he did with ease. THAT has me questioning whether Mac is the right guy to find our solution at QB. 

 

[joewilly12]

53 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Everybody gets lucky once in a while, Mac is definitely due..

The NY Jets are long overdue............

[HessStation]

1 hour ago, UnitedWhofans said:

To say he's been horrible is not true. He's been okay. And that is fair IMO

I'm not just grading draft picks. I'm looking at the roster and it's horrible. The draft picks have been bad, which is a little better than horrible but it's also too early to go off on his picks too much yet. But... They are completely void of even one dominant player on the entire team. The closest guy is Williams, who he gets credit for, however also points deducts for taking the slam dunk pick, at a non premium position in a 34D, while also creating a log jam with the 2 most talented players on the entire roster both playing the same position at the same time, thus leading to one of the most embarrassing things I've seen on a football field in watching Sheldon Richardson play OLB for two years.  

[Paradis]

He loves Rosen. I love Rosen.

Good enough for me. 

[Gas2No99]

a 2018 5th Rounder FOR THIS!?!?!?

Mac is worrying me with each passing year . . . 

 

Jets' Rashard Robinson drug arrest

HANOVER TOWNSHIP, N.J. -- New York Jets cornerback Rashard Robinson has been accused of possessing marijuana-laced candy.

Authorities say the 22-year-old was pulled over in Morris County, New Jersey last December and police found "THC infused Peanut Budda Buddah Candy" in Robinson's possession.

Robinson was arrested and charged with drug possession and carelessly driving a 2018 Mercedes Benz. Police say the car smelled like marijuana.

A spokesman for the Jets said they won't comment on the pending legal matter. It was unclear if Robinson has hired an attorney and public records don't list his phone number.

Robinson joined the Jets this year after playing for the San Francisco 49ers.

He was previously arrested in 2015 and charged with entering a former teammate's apartment without permission.

[HessStation]

20 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

I have become HIGHLY skeptical of Mac's ability to ID a Pro QB, let alone a Franchise QB (I've eaten CROW and became REALLY disturbed by the Hack pick as time passed and no game action).

McCown was NOT supposed to stave off Mac's 2 "arm talent" QB draft picks, and he did with ease. THAT has me questioning whether Mac is the right guy to find our solution at QB. 

 

I don't know. I mean Petty wasn't a bad  gamble in the 4th. The Hackenberg pick is the problem in the 2nd round and a weird area where ok, maybe that's why they didn't take a Qb in the first last year? 3 young qbs 3 years in a row? And taking two young qbs in back to back years that early. To do it again. Maybe that was the thinking? It's just weird. And they both seem to suck. And there's just no dominant picks anywhere to boot yet. I guess we'll see on Williams and Adams...but even that...non premium positions w nothing around them.its just ugly.

[legler82]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

SF passed on them as well. These guys weren’t locks to go top 10, everyone had questions about each one. They were not seen as no brainers, otherwise I would think SF would have taken one 2nd and not traded out and pass again. 

The 49ers GM and HC were in the first year of 6 their year deals.  So they were in a completely different situation then our GM and HC who were heading into lame duck years.  There's no "they" in my book, only "he".  What questions did everyone have about Mahomes?  The kid had every possible throw imaginable and unimaginable on tape.  There couldn't have been question about his size, athleticism, arm talent, arm strength, sample size, production, accuracy, competitiveness, intelligence, you name it.  The only thing one could question/concern was scheme which is so lazy.  Like I said before if the "Air Raid" prevents you from differentiating between the inflated stat guys like Petty vs the rare talents like Mahomes then you need to find a new line of work.  Lastly, maybe SF identified Garrapolo as their target all along or maybe they are as stupid as the Jets.  Either way I don't give a f*ck, cause I only care about this team.

[joewilly12]

FIRE Mike Maccagnan BEFORE ITS TOO LATE. 

[legler82]

32 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

I have become HIGHLY skeptical of Mac's ability to ID a Pro QB, let alone a Franchise QB (I've eaten CROW and became REALLY disturbed by the Hack pick as time passed and no game action).

McCown was NOT supposed to stave off Mac's 2 "arm talent" QB draft picks, and he did with ease. THAT has me questioning whether Mac is the right guy to find our solution at QB. 

 

If "arm talent" was all Mac looked for, he would have drafted Mahomes who has more arm talent than the aforementioned 2 combined.  He apparently also has an affinity for lumbering feet and inaccuracy.