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I do not know why some folks thinks Bowles is a good coach (or ever will be)


SouthernJet

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The NFL coaches and FO are a fraternity, and Bowles and Mac are part of the club.   Casserly's job was to reach into the box and find a few of the good guys to plug into the Jets front office.  He was not finding 2 of the NFL's next great minds.

But Bowles did have the resume that was worthy of a head coach, was a minority candidate, was Coordinator of the Year.   His defenses in AZ were very good.  Players like him, and he was able to win 10 games in 2015 with some decent players who Mac fit together well.  Neither Mac nor Bowles look like they are on their way to doing that again.  

When I look at some of the newer, successful coaches in the NFL, like McVay, McDermott, Pedersen, Zimmer, Morrone even, I would even put Gase in that group, I am not seeing Bowles fit into that.  He is not the next great mind that is going to will and scheme his team to 10+ wins.

But if I am the Johnsons, I am realizing what I was fed by the NFL, realizing that it would be hard to attract better replacements unless the franchise was viewed as stable and well-run, and giving them another fair chance to turn the team around.  Bowles is very good for the players culturally and from a morale perspective.  He could be a great long-term DC.  But I think Bowles biggest failure will be his inability to attract and retain good coordinators, largely because he will always view them as his potential replacement.   It would be interesting to look at the Bowles/Kacey/Morton Triumverate and compare them to their counterparts on the 12 teams that made the playoffs.  Look at the Bills, for example.  McDermott looks like a great, up and coming high energy HC.  His DC is Leslie Frazier, a former HC.  His OC was Rick Dennison, a long-time OC who the Bills fired, even though they made the playoffs.  And the Jets still employ Kacey?

Bowles is not the long-term coach of the Jets.  The question is who is his replacement.  The best thing the Jets can do today is hire a Football President so Mac does not mess up the players they will be stuck with for the next 4 years.   Bowles is not going to hurt anything-he is just not going to win a playoff game.

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14 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes, it was reported that Woody likes to talk to both.  That both speak to Woody separately.  It was never reported that Bowles doesn't say a thing to Macc or that Macc has no power here, that he can't speak to Woody as any GM does.  Fans using bad logic to stretch what was reported.

its right up there with fans who keep saying they're going to boycott J&J, duh

Or the morons who think that the proof is Macc can't fire Bowles on his own, has to go to Woody.  As if there's a GM anywhere that can fire his HC without going to the owner and telling him first.  Sure.  

Again...I didn't say they didn't talk, but Macc doesn't have the authority to fire Bowles and he certainly didn't hire him. That's what I mean by not accountable to him. Not that there's this chasm between them and they don't talk. You extrapolated that. 

And honestly, I can do without the insults. Thanks.

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6 minutes ago, freestater said:

Again...I didn't say they didn't talk, but Macc doesn't have the authority to fire Bowles and he certainly didn't hire him. That's what I mean by not accountable to him. Not that there's this chasm between them and they don't talk. You extrapolated that. 

And honestly, I can do without the insults. Thanks.

I really get the sense that Mac and Bowles work pretty closely together.  From where, I don't know.  I was surprised from Hard Knocks how involved Woody was.  

I don't think Mac is shoving players down Bowles' throat.  I also think that there are Johnsons in the room basically agreeing to everything.  I don't think they know what they are doing from a football perspective, and usually defer to the football people.  I think they comment when they think it matters from a financial or PR perspective.  This would play into my Johnsons have meddled theory that many disagree with.  Let's visit that again for fun.  I think that the Johnsons:

  • Directed that Revis be traded to TB rather than be paid.  That was actually the smart move.
  • Directed that Revis be brought back for big money after he won a SB in NE.  This was not the smart move.
  • Encouraged MacBowles to be competitive in 2015 and 2016 and not rebuild.  Not a bad call given the OL contracts.  This is a similar situation to the Giants' now.
  • Encouraged that Mac fold and sign Fitz in 2016 given his 2015 success.  That unfortunately required that Mo be given a long-term contract in 2016 to recover the cap room.  Mac did not appear to want to sign Fitz or Mo for longer money.
  • Cut Harris and Decker given how the team was looking in 2017 (even after trying to sign Hightower and Jefferson).  That was not a bad move either.
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3 minutes ago, varjet said:

I really get the sense that Mac and Bowles work pretty closely together.  From where, I don't know.  I was surprised from Hard Knocks how involved Woody was.  

I don't think Mac is shoving players down Bowles' throat.  I also think that there are Johnsons in the room basically agreeing to everything.  I don't think they know what they are doing from a football perspective, and usually defer to the football people.  I think they comment when they think it matters from a financial or PR perspective.  This would play into my Johnsons have meddled theory that many disagree with.  Let's visit that again for fun.  I think that the Johnsons:

  • Directed that Revis be traded to TB rather than be paid.  That was actually the smart move.
  • Directed that Revis be brought back for big money after he won a SB in NE.  This was not the smart move.
  • Encouraged MacBowles to be competitive in 2015 and 2016 and not rebuild.  Not a bad call given the OL contracts.  This is a similar situation to the Giants' now.
  • Encouraged that Mac fold and sign Fitz in 2016 given his 2015 success.  That unfortunately required that Mo be given a long-term contract in 2016 to recover the cap room.  Mac did not appear to want to sign Fitz or Mo for longer money.
  • Cut Harris and Decker given how the team was looking in 2017 (even after trying to sign Hightower and Jefferson).  That was not a bad move either.

I think you're pretty accurate with those. 

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1 hour ago, freestater said:

Again...I didn't say they didn't talk, but Macc doesn't have the authority to fire Bowles and he certainly didn't hire him. That's what I mean by not accountable to him. Not that there's this chasm between them and they don't talk. You extrapolated that. 

And honestly, I can do without the insults. Thanks.

Is there any inkling that Mac wants to fire or did not want to hire Bowles?

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2 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Is there any inkling that Mac wants to fire or did not want to hire Bowles?

Mac and Bowles are equals.   They work as a team.  I think if Mac ever told the Johnsons that Bowles should go, he would be the one fired.  They are a unit, were extended as a unit, and its 50/50 that at the end of 2018 they are fired as a unit (which is why it will be hard to get FAs to come here this year).

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On 1/12/2018 at 3:45 PM, SouthernJet said:

He can NOT ingame adjust or react to ingame/halftime moves opponents make. he seems stubborn with gameplan he spent 4 days making up. We all know that goes out the crapper once game starts and the best Coordinators in NFL make adjustments, EXCEPT the Jets. It's Jets own fault as they hired Hermwho  had some of same issues and he had zero Coordinator experience (where you learn how to ingame adjust on 1 side of ball) He was only ever a darn CB coach. So what do Jets do? They hire another non seasoned coach with ONE year as coordinator. Come on, lets start hiring folks who have moved up ladder and learned the strategy aspect for 10 years as opposed to ex-players who were playing during the 10 years other coaches (who didnt play ProBall or maybe a year or two) were climbing the coaching ladder learning different postions and startegy and gleaming from seasoned coaches in front of them. If Bowles cant ingame adjust by now, he wont learn it.

Add to that never complaing about bad calls. Parcells used ot say "I know call wont be over turned, I am arguing for the next close call"

 

Now, we hear he may be throwing OC Morton under bus (a ofense that over acheived) and keeeping his personal best pal idiot Kacy Rodgers. 

I blame GM Mac if this happens. He should have told Bowles after last game that Rodgers needed to be fired along w/Special Teams Coach.

 

I am praying Arians/Zona and Bowles/Jets made some under cover deal where ex NJ guy Arians (who admits he and wifes family all still live here) comes back as Jets HC and Bowles (who I hear loved Arizona) becomes the Cardinals new HC. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I do but I don't like to be insulting

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5 hours ago, freestater said:

Again...I didn't say they didn't talk, but Macc doesn't have the authority to fire Bowles and he certainly didn't hire him. That's what I mean by not accountable to him. Not that there's this chasm between them and they don't talk. You extrapolated that. 

And honestly, I can do without the insults. Thanks.

As I said, which GM do you think can just fire a HC under contract and then have to spend on another HC without talking to his owner?  The owner shouldn't say NO, but he has to be told first.  It's his team after all.  The assumption has always been that Macc had nothing to do with hiring Bowles but that's only partly true.  Woody have his approval to sign Bowles, Macc was then hired and interviewed Bowles.  Would have been interesting if Macc didn't like Bowles what would have happened.  Giants just hired Gettleman, am experienced GM and Mara is hiring the HC.  The only extrapolating is done by fans who think Macc can't go to Johnson and tell him he wants to fire Bowles and will be turned down.  Or that because Woody liked to hear from HC and GM seperately that meant that Macc had no power over the HC who didn't also report to his GM. Pure guesswork by a fan base that goes to no end to find things about the team to whine about.  If saying that morons believe there is a GM out there that doesn't let his owner in on his plan to fire their HC before doing so.  Who's owner finds out after the fact.  You need to get off that one, it's not an insult.

 

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5 hours ago, freestater said:

Again...I didn't say they didn't talk, but Macc doesn't have the authority to fire Bowles and he certainly didn't hire him. That's what I mean by not accountable to him. Not that there's this chasm between them and they don't talk. You extrapolated that. 

And honestly, I can do without the insults. Thanks.

Jet Nut LOVES making strawman arguments. Have fun lol. 

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4 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Jet Nut LOVES making strawman arguments. Have fun lol. 

Yeah, guess you used your fine deductive powers to observe this.  Because he didn't agree on Revis and you spent close to 20 pages trying to convince us that Revis only had 3 good years.  Most of those 20 were  after I got bored with you and left the thread.  Lol, but it was me.  

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, guess you used your fine deductive powers to observe this.  Because he didn't agree on Revis and you spent close to 20 pages trying to convince us that Revis only had 3 good years.  Most of those 20 were  after I got bored with you and left the thread.  Lol, but it was me.  

...4 great years.

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3 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I came out here to post what you posted!!

Awful decision making...awful!!!

If I’m the owner I’m firing him tomorrow. Look how many times Big Ben brought back pitt end of game. There was plenty of time. They did end of scoring a TD. I would love to hear his reasoning for that terrible decision.

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19 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Todd Bowles looks like a good HC when the league average is what MIke Tomlin displayed.

This is not saying Bowles is good but the league average sucks

Pitt historically doesn’t fire coaches. But they may  make an exception for that idiot. https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.pennlive.com/steelers/index.ssf/2018/01/steelers_tomlin_onside_kick_jax.amp

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39 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

If I’m the owner I’m firing him tomorrow. Look how many times Big Ben brought back pitt end of game. There was plenty of time. They did end of scoring a TD. I would love to hear his reasoning for that terrible decision.

There is no excuse!

When the commentators are saying you are stupid you know that you are in trouble!!!

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14 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I think Tomlin is done in Pittsburgh after today 

If Tomlin is fired tomorrow, I’d fire Bowles 10 seconds after finding out, interview a white guy and sign Tomlin to a 5 year HC contract. 

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On 1/12/2018 at 6:16 PM, freestater said:

Bowles doesn't answer to Macc in the ****ed up structure we have with this team...

I know, why I meant Mac should be assertive and give that feedback and be on record w/Mgt. he gave that feedback.

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