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Debunking the Kirk Cousins/Neil O’ Donnell comparison.


Patriot Killa

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Introduction

first of all let me say this..

We should not let past moves dictate our future moves. Yes, they should always be taken into consideration when making decisions .. but I don’t necessarily think this is one that can should be compared to the hypothetical case of signing Cousins. 

Neil O’ Donnell played in a very different league than the one Cousins plays in today. During his SB run with the Steelers it went a little something like this....

Their team philosophy on offense was pound the rock with Pro Bowler Barry Foster who rushed for 1,690 yards and 11 TD’s In 92’. Neil was a game manager who also couldn’t take care of the ball that well. 

Combined with their strong defense lead by Defensive minds like Cower/D.Lebeu who touted players Rod Woodson and Greg Floyd they were rarely beat.

Neil simply played a Mark Sanchez type roll in the sense of letting the D and run game dominate. The stats say the more attempts he had the more his completion percentage suffered...in most cases.

in 1992 he attempted 313 passes with 59%

in 1993 he attempted 486 passes with 55%

In 1994 he attempted 370 passes with 57%

In 1995 he attempted 416 passes with 59%(his best year, stastically)

In 1997..his second year with NYJ he attempted 460 passes with a 56% result

He was a glorified game manager and rarely had to throw his way out of bad situations and when he did, he could not make it happen. I.E  this excerpt from SB XXX article:

O'Donnell often appeared flustered, a quarterback who couldn't find his receivers in his first Super Bowl appearance, and couldn't do much to produce a Steelers surge with any continuity. In fact, on the critical first interception, he said the ball simply slipped out of his hands.

Third downs? He was all over the place with his passing, and then helped provide the Cowboys with damaging turnovers -- especially when his third-quarter pass was intercepted by Brown. It was the game's first turnover, coming at the moment when the tempo of the game was in the balance. 

Still, the Steelers were in contention in the final period -- until the second interception.

O'Donnell expected wide receiver Andre Hastings to be racing toward the sideline.

"It was a bit of miscommunication between the quarterback and wide receiver," said O'Donnell.

"Neil anticipated an out route," explained Erhardt. "Hastings ran a hitch route."

And Hastings himself described the play as a "hot" situation -- "if the guy's pushing me, I'm going out. If the guy's soft, I'm going in. It was a gray area. I did a hook and Neil read an out."

In other words, O'Donnell is supposed to "read" what the defense is doing and expect Hastings to react the same way. One of them didn't.”

exuses..excuses(editor note)

Neil was not that great of a player as some were making him out to be imo.. maybe it was the difference in era’s??? Idk. His stats, articles, and film look very uninspiring. Fast foward to Cousins.

Let’s first measure Kirk in the same light we did Neil. With completion percentage and attempts and then we can continue on to the winning column which the Cousin critics are waiting for. Keep in mind this passing era calls for more attempts so in my opinion the higher the completion percentage the more impressive it is to me based on how many chances you leave for incompletions to occur. That’s basic math.

In Kirk’s first year as a full time starter:

2015, he attempted 543 passes with 69.8%(career high)

2016, he attempted 606 passes with 67%

2017, he attempted 540 passes with 64%

So as you can see Cousins is different in the sense that he can throw in volume and still complete a high percentage of his throws. Keep in mind, he has Jamison Crowder/Josh Doctson on the outside. Crowder is a 2 or 3rd year player who is best fitted as a #2 and Josh Doctson had 5 catches last year before coming into 2017. Cousins has not had the luxury of playing the background to “Barry Foster” or the luxury of relying on Rod Woodson and Dick L’s Defense.

No, Kirk has been the center piece of his team who has stayed consistent even with offensive pieces on the constant move year in and year out. Let’s take a look at the year Washington went 9-7 and lost to Green Bay in the wildcard. There was the game that quoted the famous line

“YOU LIKE THAT?”

He directed the biggest comeback in Redskins history that day.


» Cousins has been stellar in home games this season. In four games at FedExField, Cousins has completed 75 percent of his passes for 251.5 yards per game, six touchdowns to two interceptions, with a passer rating of 101.8. 

Power of the moment: Cousins directed the largest come-from-behind win in Redskins history behind a 33-completion, 317-yard, three-touchdown performance. The 33 completions tied a franchise record held by Jason Campbell and set in 2007. Cousins' third touchdown pass went to Jordan Reedwith 24 seconds remaining to complete the dramatic comeback. The Redskins had trailed by 24 points in the second quarter. The team's previous biggest comebacks came from 21 points, which the Redskins pulled off three times.”

Still don’t think Kirk is clutch? Fast foward to this year in a game against the Seattle Seahawks.

“There was no way Kirk Cousins was going to win this game.

Not after Russell Wilson, the fourth-quarter comeback king, orchestrated another late-game gem and put the Seahawks ahead 14-10 with just 1:34 remaining.

And not on a cold and rainy Northwest afternoon when he could barely feel his fingers and had trouble holding the football. And not at CenturyLink Field, where the 12th Man lived up to its reputation and rocked the stadium with a steady stream of noise

I’m screaming my head off in the huddle,” said Cousins, his voice cracking during a postgame news conference. “Just a lot going on. A lot of bullets flying. This game will test you.”

Ya think?

Down four points, Cousins needed to drive 70 yards behind an offensive line missing four starters against a Seattle defense that had sacked him six times and held him to 177 yards on 19-for-28 passing.

No way Cousins, who had engineered seven fourth-quarter comebacks during his career, upstages Wilson who had done it 23 times — the most since they entered the NFL together in 2012.

Cousins’ drive began with a pass across the middle that was tipped by defensive end Dwight Feeney and fell short.

Then, Cousins connected with Brian Quick, who beat cornerback Justin Coleman and safety Kam Chancellor, along the right sideline for a 31-yard reception. Before the next play, Cousins spotted single coverage on receiver Josh Doctson and audibled at the line.

 Doctson hauled in a 38-yard reception at the Seahawks 1 with 1:24 left. On the next play, running back Rob Kelley plunged into the end zone, which capped an improbable comeback and put Washington ahead 17-14.

Kirk can play in bad weather and from behind and lift his team. These are all things that fans on this board speculated that he couldn’t do.

Kirk Cousins first and only playoff game:

He threw for 329 yards, 29-46 completion/attempt and 1 TD, 0 INT.

A quick summery is the Washington Defense got flattened. They were ran all over and they were thrown all over. Rodgers bounced back from a bad game and did exactly what he usually does. Kirk could not make up for his defenses failure and they ultimately lost 35-18. 

O’Donnell has 16 career comebacks in a 14 year career.(7 of those years he was the starter)

Cousins has 8 career comebacks in 3 years as a full time starter.

Cousins is already half way to his career amount despite only starting 3 years full time so far.

This is my explanation for why these two QB’s are nothing a like. And my reasoning to why I think they will have very different careers. I feel like Cousins is a much better passer regardless of era difference and I feel like everything people are condemning him for..is just about completely untrue. My quote sources are linked below.

 

Links-

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/ODonNe00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/on-this-day-kirk-cousins-shows-hes-the-comeback-king-not-seahawks-russell-wilson/

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00.htm

https://mobile.nytimes.com/1996/01/29/sports/super-bowl-xxx-for-o-donnell-it-s-a-game-of-misreads-mistakes-and-misgivings.html?referer=https://www.google.com/

 

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Just now, SenorGato said:

Nooooooooobody cares about the 90’s Jets. Heck at this point half their fans were born in the 90’s and don’t give a flying gosh about your Kotites and your Herms and whoever this Neil guy is. 

Lol..I know I don’t. I wasn’t born until 96’. But I was asked to type up an article about the comparison so I said why not. 

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5 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Nooooooooobody cares about the 90’s Jets. Heck at this point half their fans were born in the 90’s and don’t give a flying gosh about your Kotites and your Herms and whoever this Neil guy is.

Cousins is the man. Sign the beast for real for real 

Neal Friggen O'Donnell man what the hell a piece of NY Jets history or blunders feel the pain. 

Image result for neil o'donnell jets pics

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Just now, Patriot Killa said:

Neil O’ Donnell was not a good passer. He was a good game manager. Kirk Cousins is an actual pure passer.

Look you are totally misunderstanding me on this situation. 

I welcome Kirk Cousins if he can be that guy. 

This just reminds me a lot of the Neal O'Donnell signing. 

 

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The crazy thing is O’Donnell wasn’t even that bad so the comparison shouldn’t be considered a knock on Cousins.  Parcells hated O’Donnell because he wasn’t mobile Cousins does have some mobility but as just comparison as passers go they are similar 

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1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Look you are totally misunderstanding me on this situation. 

I welcome Kirk Cousins if he can be that guy. 

This just reminds me a lot of the Neal O'Donnell signing. 

 

What is different about the signing is Neil never truly showed an ability to be that guy in the first place. The Steelers team around him made him. Kirk made the redskins though. Neil signing would be the equivalent to Mark Sanchez leaving after back to back AFC championship games and signing with another team with the team’s expectations being he will be a star. 

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Just now, Philc1 said:

The crazy thing is O’Donnell wasn’t even that bad so the comparison shouldn’t be considered a knock on Cousins.  Parcells hated O’Donnell because he wasn’t mobile Cousins does have some mobility but as just comparison as passers go they are similar 

Lol....they aren’t similar whatsoever. Kirk can pass his way out of trouble. Neil couldn’t. That’s often the difference in come back games. I mean, the proof is written in the stats.

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9 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Neal Friggen O'Donnell man what the hell a piece of NY Jets history or blunders feel the pain. 

File that under things nobody will ever give a dollar to hear about. 

At this point two years ago the Cubs were Lovable Losers with a century of losing in front of full crowds to back it up. Now it’s like it never happened and nobody gives a sh*t. A huge part of that job was clearing payroll to make room to commit to better players, which the Jets have done an undeniably good job at. Keep it moving from there 

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7 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Lol....they aren’t similar whatsoever. Kirk can pass his way out of trouble. Neil couldn’t. That’s often the difference in come back games. I mean, the proof is written in the stats.

How old were you when O’Donnell started his last game for us? 

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3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

How old were you when O’Donnell started his last game for us? 

Don’t ask stupid questions if you know the answer ,as I had just reveled my birth date two posts above this one. Google, deep research and limitless resources are a thing, ya know? Don’t play me like I’m clueless. That’s the last thing I am. I did my leg work on the 90’s Jets. I don’t talk out of the side of my neck. I find it offensive that you are scrutinizing me because you don’t agree with my very informative and compelling write up. You can disagree. Don’t discredit me though.

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I can do this with fewer words.

There isn't a Cousins/O'donnell comparison. It's just the latest example of of how unimaginative and pessimistic Jets fans are when evaluating players and being completely incapable of finding a reference point beyond the players they've seen play for us in the past. Like how black QBs always remind folks of black QBs, but not because their black. 

The end.

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4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I can do this with fewer words.

There isn't a Cousins/O'donnell comparison. It's just the latest example of of how unimaginative and pessimistic Jets fans are when evaluating players and being completely incapable of finding a reference point beyond the players they've seen play for us in the past. Like how black QBs always remind folks of black QBs, but not because their black. 

The end.

Some of us aren't comparing the player we are comparing the situation where we overpaid for a free agent QB and it failed. 

Nothing more nothing less. 

Sadly some Jets fans don't understand what others are trying to say and only want to argue about everything and anything other than that. 

Do you eat sour beets daily cause you are one bitter soul. 

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8 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Some of us aren't comparing the player we are comparing the situation where we overpaid for a free agent QB and it failed. 

Nothing more nothing less. 

Sadly some Jets fans don't understand what others are trying to say and only want to argue about everything and anything other than that. 

 

I’m comparing both by comparing the players.

BECAUSE Cousins isn’t O’Neil that makes the situation itself uncomparable. One is a game manager and one is a great QB. As I just said..Neil to the Jets is the equivalent to Mark Sanchez and the Jets going to one of those Super Bowls we missed out on and then the following offseason Sanchez signing a big deal with a QB needy team. It’s that simple. Mark had a great D and running game to cover how bad of a  individual passer he actually was. Kirk Cousins is the exact opposite. He is a great individual passer with a sh*t team around him and still succeeds at his position to a high degree. Players like Sanchez and Neil didn’t have to succeed at a high degree because the rest of the team did that for them. Sounds like the 90 Jets didn’t do a good enough job scouting his Steeler career and did something Jetsy and stupid. This isn’t that situation.

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6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Some of us aren't comparing the player we are comparing the situation where we overpaid for a free agent QB and it failed. 

Nothing more nothing less. 

Sadly some Jets fans don't understand what others are trying to say and only want to argue about everything and anything other than that. 

Do you eat sour beets daily cause you are one bitter soul. 

I'm sorry that, in the moments where you are pretending to have me on ignore, you find my tone to be bitter. After all, I'm the one in this thread griping about how we shouldn't attempt to bring in an accomplished QB, because once upon a time it didn't work well in a completely different scenario. I'm also the one that comes here daily redundantly exclaiming "woe is me" sentiments in every thread possible. 

Totes me.

Or possibly not.

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31 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I can do this with fewer words.

There isn't a Cousins/O'donnell comparison. It's just the latest example of of how unimaginative and pessimistic Jets fans are when evaluating players and being completely incapable of finding a reference point beyond the players they've seen play for us in the past. Like how black QBs always remind folks of black QBs, but not because their black. 

The end.

Absolutely, and at this point it’s just boring. They’re not even thoughtful or honest evaluations, nor even really intended to be. It’s a sensationalist approach fully intended to appeal solely like minded individuals. 

 

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37 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Absolutely, and at this point it’s just boring. They’re not even thoughtful or honest evaluations, nor even really intended to be. It’s a sensationalist approach fully intended to appeal solely like minded individuals. 

 

I been flip flopping as you know. But this was my honest and wholesome evaluation.. So idk Who this is directed towards

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@Patriot Killa Good job man, appreciate the efforts you put in.

I think we can both agree that if Cousins is the 15th best QB in the league right now, O’Donnell would be the 30th...there is my comparison, minus the research. :ph34r::D

Saying “its reminiscent of that one time with another fa qb signing.”...is the same logic as saying “drafting Penn State Barkley reminds me of that one time we drafted Penn State Blair Thomas.” Its a lazy way to be pessimistic, and a reservation to say, “told ya so”...as a result of this organizations ineptitude over many moons. Most don’t even realize they’re doing it, but we all have a tendency to do it.

If Mac wants Cousins, let’s hope his evaluation is accurate and his balls are big enough to get him for the best short and long term interests....fingers crossed*

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51 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I'm sorry that, in the moments where you are pretending to have me on ignore, you find my tone to be bitter. After all, I'm the one in this thread griping about how we shouldn't attempt to bring in an accomplished QB, because once upon a time it didn't work well in a completely different scenario. I'm also the one that comes here daily redundantly exclaiming "woe is me" sentiments in every thread possible. 

Totes me.

Or possibly not.

For some odd reason I'm seeing your responses to the left of my screen outside the perimeters of the reply board. 

Its cool you are entitled to your opinions and me mine. 

No need to be sorry we both want the same results for the Jets. 

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1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

For some odd reason I'm seeing your responses to the left of my screen outside the perimeters of the reply board. 

Its cool you are entitled to your opinions and me mine. 

No need to be sorry we both want the same results for the Jets. 

What does commenting on my personality have to do with your opinions of the thread topic? I commented on topic. Your comment violates the terms of service for the site.

We don't want the same results. You scream on this site for the most unproductive, inane, and ill-informed decisions possible. I don't want any of those dumb things. 

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