Debunking the Kirk Cousins/Neil O’ Donnell comparison.

[TnT]

4 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Probably 60% of the Jets’ current fanbase and lets say 75% of their fanbase in 2030 ask:

Yo who the **** is Neil O’Donnell? 

But they’ll all worship Cousins shnuts if he comes here. 

[Philc1]

55 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Again, Neil O’Donnell was never a good QB. This was never going to turn out good to begin with for them. The Jets got bamboozled by a good Steelers team hiding the inept ability of Neil

How many games did you see O’Donnel play in?  You seem to know every detail 

[SenorGato]

The only 90’s O’Donnell I acknowledge:

[Patriot Killa]

28 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Do the words different eras mean anything to you?  You would think Troy Aikman sucked based on your turd logic

I already explained the X factor in comparing different #ERAZ in the article so you can try again if you want, Phil Boy Wonder.

[Patriot Killa]

18 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

How many games did you see O’Donnel play in?  You seem to know every detail 

You seem to like to hop on my nuts a lot for being 21. Is it because I can still get a boner? You mad jelly because of my boner, bro?.???

[Philc1]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

I already explained the X factor in comparing different #ERAZ in the article so you can try again if you want, Phil Boy Wonder.

Troy Aikman never had more than 3400 passing yards in a season.  Case Keenum had more yards passing in 2017 and didn’t even start all 16 games so does Keenum > Aikman?

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Philc1 said:

Troy Aikman never had more than 3400 passing yards in a season.  Case Keenum had more yards passing in 2017 and didn’t even start all 16 games so does Keenum > Aikman?

I didn’t compare yardage what so ever. That would be the opposite of finding an effective way to compare eras based on the fact they ran the ball more in the 90’s. My loop hole was attempts- to completion % because no matter how many yards they got or touchdowns they scored ..their attempts compared to their completion rate would tell the story a lot better of how accurate or how decisive they were making throws. It’s not rocket science dude. You obviously didn’t give the article much of a glance if your first example of my “logic” was comparing yardage because no where in that write up did I mention yardage being a factor.

 

typcial mindless posts. You are too easy.

[Philc1]

6 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I didn’t compare yardage what so ever. That would be the opposite of finding an effective way to compare eras based on the fact they ran the ball more in the 90’s. My loop hole was attempts- to completion % because no matter how many yards they got or touchdowns they scored ..their attempts compared to their completion rate would tell the story a lot better of how accurate or how decisive they were making throws. It’s not rocket science dude. You obviously didn’t give the article much of a glance if your first example of my “logic” was comparing yardage because no where in that write up did I mention yardage being a factor.

 

typcial mindless posts. You are too easy.

And the rules being changed to favor passing in the mid 2000’s wouldn’t also affect completion %?

And if you want to nitpick yards per attempt Cousins had Desean Jackson the king of the 20+ yard reception as his #1 WR until this season

Yeah we get it everyone who disagrees with you is stupid

[Patriot Killa]

16 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

And the rules being changed to favor passing in the mid 2000’s wouldn’t also affect completion %?

 

Yeah we get it everyone who disagrees with you is stupid

There isn’t a single rule change that significantly affected completion percentage to THAT high of a degree. Yes, corners have to lay off slightly more. That isn’t enough to warrant the assumption that it completely rattled the validity of attempts to completion percentage. 

And no, I have no issue with people disagreeing with me. That is why I’m on a message board. You’d have to be stupid to think you can come on a forum and have every single member agree with you on every single topic...idk man maybe it’s just the way you package your perspectives. You do it in a smug and belittling manner...except you don’t package them intelligently enough so you come off belittling yourself in the same breath. A lot of guys here don’t agree with me and I respect their perspectives because they approach me in a genuine manner and don’t call my age out and use it as a direct link to some form of ignorance when I’m really more well spoken and informed than you percive me as. Know what? I think its a level of intimidation.?

[Sully80]

I’m for the Cousins signing, I don’t need much persuasion at all. Guy is better than all but one QB still competing for a shot at the Super Bowl. Revamp the O-Line, Draft your Von Miller/Justin Houston Edge rusher and not waste your picks moving up for a young QB that will have to go through growing pains, sign two great corners (or bring back Claiborne), Sign Allen Robinson and go to war. The teams that are still in the playoffs really aren’t that great, with potentially 100 million plus in cap space and 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, the Jets, with the talent already on the roster, can turn this around in 1 offseason, there’s plenty of talent out there.

[Gas2No99]

9 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Neil O’ Donnell was not a good passer. He was a good game manager. Kirk Cousins is an actual pure passer.

Which is great, but he's not a Franchise NFL QB for the PRICE that he'll be demanding and the open salary cap space he'll be crushing.

Unless you can get a 3-4 year deal UNDER $24M/year for this 30+ year old QB who CHOKES when it matters, it's a HARD PASS.

Neil O'Donnell is simply a reminder that just cause you spend TOP $ on the "best available" QB in FA for that particular year, DOESN"T translate into success for the team. Paying Cousins is merely paying for premium $hit w/truffles.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Gas2No99 said:

Which is great, but he's not a Franchise NFL QB for the PRICE that he'll be demanding and the open salary cap space he'll be crushing.

Unless you can get a 3-4 year deal UNDER $24M/year for this 30+ year old QB who CHOKES when it matters, it's a HARD PASS.

Neil O'Donnell is simply a reminder that just cause you spend TOP $ on the "best available" QB in FA for that particular year, DOESN"T translate into success for the team. Paying Cousins is mere;y paying for premium $hit w/truffles.

The best available QB in 1996 and 2018 are vastly different. My point is to show you Neil was never a good option even if he wasn’t the best available QB. He was never going to be good enough of a passer for the 1997 Jets. 

[Gas2No99]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

No the proof is in the results. 26-30-1 since 2012 with 2 playoff appearances. Both losses. Just something to ponder on.

 I think what is getting lost here in the statistical comparison is the situational comparison. Its easy to compare stats but not the situation. They had just cut ties with an out of gas Boomer and The Jets were desperate for a QB as they are now. They had the money to spend as they do now. They had an inept HC and he spent 70 million in FA. Sounds familiar? All to go 1-15. Hell O'Donnell didn't even make it to the mid point of the season before an injury knocked him out for the season. Then they were stuck with the great Frank Reich. Its like deja vu all over again. The Jets need a QB. They have an inept HC and an inept GM IMO. They have a ton of cap space and they say they are going to spend. Need I go on?

So for me the situational comparison is the thing not the stats comparison.

This guy gets it! History tells you more than number crunching, but people lose sight of that (And I'm an accountant!)

And NO cookie for the self-patting millennial OP who wrote this misguided drivel. 

[Gas2No99]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

The best available QB in 1996 and 2018 are vastly different. My point is to show you Neil was never a good option even if he wasn’t the best available QB. He was never going to be good enough of a passer for the 1997 Jets. 

Just like Cousins. 

[Patriot Killa]

14 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

Just like Cousins. 

Figured you would counter with this. This article I wrote up proves he is though. I really have nothing left to say on that specific part of the topic. I’ve stated as much of my case as I can. We can respectfully agree to disagree. 

[Patriot Killa]

17 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

This guy gets it! History tells you more than number crunching, but people lose sight of that (And I'm an accountant!)

And NO cookie for the self-patting millennial OP who wrote this misguided drivel. 

This isn’t going to end is it?

[TnT]

41 minutes ago, Sully80 said:

 Guy is better than all but one QB still competing for a shot at the Super Bowl.

 

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, TnT said:

 

@Gas2No99 self patting millennial here reporting that older generations also agree, since, you know, my millennial status basically revokes me from having any solid points about this topic at all.

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Cool hey how many playoff games has Kirk Cousins won?

How many playoff games was he eligible to play in all by himself?  Hate this lame question, as if you make or miss the playoffs because of the QB and no one else.  

Guess Brees lost the game in Minny today.

[Jet Nut]

35 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

Which is great, but he's not a Franchise NFL QB for the PRICE that he'll be demanding and the open salary cap space he'll be crushing.

Unless you can get a 3-4 year deal UNDER $24M/year for this 30+ year old QB who CHOKES when it matters, it's a HARD PASS.

Neil O'Donnell is simply a reminder that just cause you spend TOP $ on the "best available" QB in FA for that particular year, DOESN"T translate into success for the team. Paying Cousins is merely paying for premium $hit w/truffles.

What does pay have to do with being a FQB?  Nonsense. 

As nonsensical as claiming he chokes when it matters.  Please list or link to games he's choked away when it matters.  Real chokes, games they were favored in and lost due to bad QB play.  

NOD is just a reminder that the history of sports, every sport, is littered with FA signings that don't work out.  There are no guarantees.  

[Patriot Killa]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

How many playoff games was he eligible to play in all by himself?  Hate this lame question, as if you make or miss the playoffs because of the QB and no one else.  

Guess Brees lost the game in Minny today.

Hold that thought,  I may have some additional info to add.

[Jet Nut]

Like when one amazingly dumb poster was trying to convince me that Marino was over rated because he has 0 SB wins.  Perfect example of how stupid this theory is.  

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Like when one amazingly dumb poster was trying to convince me that Marino was over rated because he has 0 SB wins.  Perfect example of how stupid this theory is.  

When you go by that logic you naturally ignore any other deciding components that factor into success. It’s one sided and ignorant to make assessments based on that.

[SenorGato]

56 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

The best available QB in 1996 and 2018 are vastly different. My point is to show you Neil was never a good option even if he wasn’t the best available QB. He was never going to be good enough of a passer for the 1997 Jets. 

It’s really not a point you need to make, is it?

Then again I’ve spent lots of time trying to explain that Le’veon Bell, and Kirk Cousins are awesome fits to a crowd that thinks more time and money spent on ASJ, DeMario Davis, and Mo Claiborne are where the real value is at. 

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

It’s really not a point you need to make, is it?

Then again I’ve spent time trying to explain that Le’veon Bell, and Kirk Cousins are awesome fits to a crowd that thinks more time and money spent on ASJ, DeMario Davis, and Mo Claiborne are where the real value is at. Really like an insane 

Demario Davis played out of his mind. I’d resign him but I agree... get impact players...EJ Gaines Kyle Fuller and Tremaine Johnson are all way better options to start at the two corner positions. People are convinced these guys are “foundational pieces” ....yeah.

[TnT]

40 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

This guy gets it! History tells you more than number crunching, but people lose sight of that (And I'm an accountant!)

With all due respect, let’s not ignore that history shows the Redskins playoff record is 2-7 in the last 20 yrs...they haven’t exactly been a model of success. Hence the talent he is surrounded by, hence his record.

Also, Cousins entered his first playoff game in the 4th qtr when RG3 went down. So let’s just say his one playoff game was against A Rodgers.

Technically, there aren’t many similarities here...O’Donnell was on a great PITT team and cashed in. Cousins feels he was mistreated and will do anything at this point to leave WASH. 

The only similarity is that the Jets needed a QB then, and they need one now.

[TnT]

36 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

@Gas2No99 self patting millennial here reporting that older generations also agree, since, you know, my millennial status basically revokes me from having any solid points about this topic at all.

Did my use of the word “Yahtzee” expose my being older generation?!

I was only 18 in 96, so I had to endure NOD sober.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, TnT said:

Did my use of the word “Yahtzee” expose my being older generation?!

I was only 18 in 96, so I had to endure NOD sober.

Lol I was just talking in general but now that you mention it......??

[TnT]

27 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Hold that thought,  I may have some additional info to add.

JAX=Fo sho money.

[TnT]

14 minutes ago, TnT said:

With all due respect, let’s not ignore that history shows the Redskins playoff record is 2-7 in the last 20 yrs...they haven’t exactly been a model of success. Hence the talent he is surrounded by, hence his record.

Also, Cousins entered his first playoff game in the 4th qtr when RG3 went down. So let’s just say his one playoff game was against A Rodgers.

Technically, there aren’t many similarities here...O’Donnell was on a great PITT team and cashed in. Cousins feels he was mistreated and will do anything at this point to leave WASH. 

The only similarity is that the Jets needed a QB then, and they need one now.

@Gas2No99

ORRRRR, We can totally exclude 2012 being we all know it was the year nobody had an answer for RG3 and say Cousins managed to get a meh team in the 2015 playoffs that hadn’t been there in 7 yrs.

Thats kind of Franchiseish.

[NYs Stepchild]

17 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I can do this with fewer words.

There isn't a Cousins/O'donnell comparison. It's just the latest example of of how unimaginative and pessimistic Jets fans are when evaluating players and being completely incapable of finding a reference point beyond the players they've seen play for us in the past. Like how black QBs always remind folks of black QBs, but not because their black. 

The end.

Which black QB have you seen Winston compared to?

[Kleckineau]

Cousins will sign somewhere and that team will most likely be in the playoffs next season. 

Macc is gonna gag on this whole idea, draft an ILB @ 6 and a 3rd or 4th round QB and us Jets fans will be left holding our junk.

[JetFaninMI]

10 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Again, Neil O’Donnell was never a good QB. This was never going to turn out good to begin with for them. The Jets got bamboozled by a good Steelers team hiding the inept ability of Neil

Well he was part of a Super Bowl team. He wasn't a great QB but the Jets knew it. Thats where the situational comparison comes in. So desperate for a QB that they went with what was available. This is why the comparison is valid. They are in the same boat today. They desperately need a QB and have a ton of money to spend. The comparison is not about stats. Cousins has them but can he lead a team to a Championship? Does he have what it takes to play under the constant media scrutiny that is NY?  We don't know the answer's to these questions unless he comes here. The question is do you want to pay him 25-30 mil per to find out? Make no mistake that is what it will cost to sign him as he made just under 24 mil last season. You think he will take a pay cut or not want a raise? Should we pay him 1st tier QB dollars when he doesn't have 1st tier credentials? He has NEVER WON A PLAYOFF GAME. Not even a wildcard game. He is under .500 as a starter as well. I would rather draft a QB and use that money to surround him with talent than give Cousins all that cash. You could sign two difference making players on either side of the ball for what it would cost for Cousins. The quick fix has never worked for the Jets. I've watched them go this route many times in all my years watching this franchise and it has NEVER worked. EVER. Are you that confident in Bowles and Macc that they can pull it off when so many others have failed? I'm not.

[JetFaninMI]

8 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Figured you would counter with this. This article I wrote up proves he is though. I really have nothing left to say on that specific part of the topic. I’ve stated as much of my case as I can. We can respectfully agree to disagree. 

Look your argument is completely based on stats and Cousins are impressive. To totally dismiss the situational comparison is really the flaw in your argument. You can't argue with history or results. The circumstances surrounding this whole thing are eerily similar. The Jets are desperate for a QB now as they were then. They had a ton of cap space then as they do now. They have a coach and GM that have had mixed results to put it kindly and look like they may be inclined to try and spend their way out of this malaise they find themselves in. For those of us that watched them do this before and miserably failed at it the comparison is a valid argument.

I gotta hand it to you, you did a lot of work on your presentation and it was a great job. I am impressed with the depth of your passion and have not lost sight of the fact that in the end we all want the same thing here. I just think there is a different way to go about it than you do.

[nyjunc]

O'Donnell played on early Cowher teams that were more run heavy and relied on D.  They won a lot and he got overrated b/c of it though he wasn't a bad QB, he just wasn't a difference making QB.  There's really no comparison btw the 2 other than people just not anting to go the vet FA route.

Neil never had more than 17 pass TD in a season, I know the era was different but that still wasn't good. he was top 10(8th) in pass yds once, never top 10 in TDs, Cousins has been top 10 in pass yds 3 times(highest 3rd and remember he has only been starter for 3 seasons) and top 10 in Tds once(8th).

 

I don't know what Cousins will be in his next stop but he's a better QB than Neil O'Donnell.  We have been looking for a long term solution at QB forever, we need to explore every possibility whether it's through FA, trade, draft, etc...