Debunking the Kirk Cousins/Neil O’ Donnell comparison.

[Pcola]

18 hours ago, Philc1 said:

The crazy thing is O’Donnell wasn’t even that bad so the comparison shouldn’t be considered a knock on Cousins.  Parcells hated O’Donnell because he wasn’t mobile Cousins does have some mobility but as just comparison as passers go they are similar 

The Cousins/O’Donnell comparison is lazy and so far off base, I don’t even know where to start.  O’Donnell was pretty bad with Pitt.  They had no problem letting him go.  On the other hand, Was has been willing to pay Cousins an absurd amount the past two years.  

And anyone who watched any football between 2003-2005, knew what we were getting with O’Donnell.  The rationale was that we were signing Elliott and Williams (book end tackles,) drafting Keyshawn to pair with Chrebet, and Murrell, who they envisioned as a 1,000 yard back could compensate for O’Donnell’s weaknesses.  

Im sure the Jets FO was aware of O’Donnell’s short comings, but just like the NYJ the past 5 or so seasons, we have no other alternative but to hope we catch lightning in a bottle.  That said, we did twice with Fitz and McCown having the best seasons of their career.  Problem is, neither was good enough to make the playoffs.  

That said, Cousins is a top 10 QB in this league.  Anyone saying other wise is not looking at the whole picture.  Every year he was a full time starter, he has thrown for more yards that any Jet QB in our history.  He has zero weapons with the exception of an injury-riddled TE.

 

[The Crusher]

19 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

I can do this with fewer words.

There isn't a Cousins/O'donnell comparison. It's just the latest example of of how unimaginative and pessimistic Jets fans are when evaluating players and being completely incapable of finding a reference point beyond the players they've seen play for us in the past. Like how black QBs always remind folks of black QBs, but not because their black. 

The end.

[jetspenguin]

Soooo.........basically Cousins completion percentage has gone down every year since he has been a full time starter? Well d@mmit, that's good enough for me. Sign this beast.

[jetspenguin]

2 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Which black QB have you seen Winston compared to?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-hq/0ap3000000652452/How-does-Jameis-Winston-compare-to-Cam-Newton 

[Patriot Killa]

19 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

Soooo.........basically Cousins completion percentage has gone down every year since he has been a full time starter? Well d@mmit, that's good enough for me. Sign this beast.

You aren’t bright if that’s what you got out of this. Do you fail to recognize the team’s pieces moving around him, losing lineman, wide outs and having them replaced with players who can’t produce at all yet he is still completing close to a 65/68% clip EVERY year? Don’t be ignorant you are better than what you just replied with.

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

The Cousins/O’Donnell comparison is lazy and so far off base, I don’t even know where to start.  O’Donnell was pretty bad with Pitt.  They had no problem letting him go.  On the other hand, Was has been willing to pay Cousins an absurd amount the past two years.  

And anyone who watched any football between 2003-2005, knew what we were getting with O’Donnell.  The rationale was that we were signing Elliott and Williams (book end tackles,) drafting Keyshawn to pair with Chrebet, and Murrell, who they envisioned as a 1,000 yard back could compensate for O’Donnell’s weaknesses.  

Im sure the Jets FO was aware of O’Donnell’s short comings, but just like the NYJ the past 5 or so seasons, we have no other alternative but to hope we catch lightning in a bottle.  That said, we did twice with Fitz and McCown having the best seasons of their career.  Problem is, neither was good enough to make the playoffs.  

That said, Cousins is a top 10 QB in this league.  Anyone saying other wise is not looking at the whole picture.  Every year he was a full time starter, he has thrown for more yards that any Jet QB in our history.  He has zero weapons with the exception of an injury-riddled TE.

 

Completely disagree. The team is in the same situation then as they are now. Except they don't have a Keyshawn or the OL you mentioned. I'm sure its a typo because I'm pretty sure O'Donnell was out of the league in 2003-05 and had no bearing on that era of NFL football. You keep harping the stats comparison while for me its the situational comparison that gives the O'Donnell/Cousins comparison validity. The circumstances are so similar that it does make you take notice. All the factors are there that existed back then. Hey its just really interesting how history repeats itself especially with this team. They went the quick fix route back then and it ended in disaster. In fact EVERY time they went this route it has not worked. How about taking the other road for a change?

[TnT]

21 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

Soooo.........basically Cousins completion percentage has gone down every year since he has been a full time starter? Well d@mmit, that's good enough for me. Sign this beast.

… Never mind the fact that his receiving options went from above average to below average. 

[The Crusher]

13 minutes ago, TnT said:

… Never mind the fact that his receiving options went from above average to below average. 

I find that as one of his biggest strengths. Imagine if he was on a team that actually tried to make him better. That wanted him. Needs a change of scenery and he will be a top ten QB for close to a decade. 

[Apache 51]

22 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Neal Friggen O'Donnell man what the hell a piece of NY Jets history or blunders feel the pain. 

Neal is a good guy.

[SenorGato]

Just now, Apache 51 said:

Neal is a good guy.

Probably would like to forget his time with this nonsense, miserable org too. 

[Sonny Werblin]

11 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Like when one amazingly dumb poster was trying to convince me that Marino was over rated because he has 0 SB wins.  Perfect example of how stupid this theory is.  

And don't forget that Kenny O had a winning record against Marino. So, we got the better QB anyway. 

[SAR I]

15 hours ago, TnT said:

Braylon Edwards/Holmes/Keller/Brad Smith/Cotchery/Shonn Greene/L Washington/T Jones/T Richardson/LT were formidable pieces in their time here. While I’ll agree that he wasn’t given nearly the talent in his last year he needed to not look absolutely horrendous quite often...

I’m curious as to what you would attribute his lack of success when he moved on?

Four things:

Injured throwing shoulder:  Never the same after surgery.

Time away from the game:  Missed an entire year, then made a backup getting very limited reps.

Mind-fu**** by coaching staff:  These days, more important than physical gifts is the mental part of the game and I defy anyone who has gone from Office Rock Star status to Hated By The Boss status to tell me how that fall from grace doesn't affect someone very deeply.

OC merry go round:  Schottenheimer (2 seasons), Sporano (1 season), Philadelphia (1), Dallas (1), Chicago (1).  That's 5 offenses to learn in 8 years, it's 4 different offenses to learn in the 4 years since leaving the Jets.

If someone wanted to write a book on how to find and screw up a top NFL quarterback prospect, the Jets would be the case study.  You had the wrong head coach at the very moment you finally found a decent young QB in the draft.  If you had an offensive minded head coach you might have made something out of Mark Sanchez.  He showed enough in his first two seasons to be owed more than he got.  To me, it's the most tragic moment in your team's history since Joe Namath decided to go water skiing and blowing both his achilles tendons the year after he missed an entire season due to a knee injury.

SAR I

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Mind-fu**** by coaching staff: 

I tend to just LOVE qbs that are soft mentally. 

And he has done so well since. 

[Pcola]

2 hours ago, JetFaninMI said:

Completely disagree. The team is in the same situation then as they are now. Except they don't have a Keyshawn or the OL you mentioned. I'm sure its a typo because I'm pretty sure O'Donnell was out of the league in 2003-05 and had no bearing on that era of NFL football. You keep harping the stats comparison while for me its the situational comparison that gives the O'Donnell/Cousins comparison validity. The circumstances are so similar that it does make you take notice. All the factors are there that existed back then. Hey its just really interesting how history repeats itself especially with this team. They went the quick fix route back then and it ended in disaster. In fact EVERY time they went this route it has not worked. How about taking the other road for a change?

I meant 93-95, sorry about that.  And I think where we are not on the same page is that O’Donnell was literally one of Pitt’s worst players where as Cousins is hands down the best player the Redskins have had in a very long time.  

I agree that Cousins wouldn’t be the optimum choice for us at QB because of his age, contract demands, and lack of playoff success...

but what choice do the Jets have?  Are there any guarantees with this draft?  Not talking about QBs being successful, I’m talking about the Jets being able to get a QB that has a chance.

Its not like we are picking in the top 2.  And unfortunately, the draft is after free agency opens. So unless we can get Cle or NYG to trade picks with us prior to early March, the team has no choice but to at least kick the tires on Cousins.  

An organization cannot go this long with one year rental after one year rental with out cleaning house and starting over.  If McCown is brought back (because that’s what we do) and we don’t come out of the draft with either Darnold or Rosen, we are going to be in the market for another GM/HC next January.

This is their fourth offseason.  There are no more excuses.

 

 

 

[TnT]

3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I find that as one of his biggest strengths. Imagine if he was on a team that actually tried to make him better. That wanted him. Needs a change of scenery and he will be a top ten QB for close to a decade. 

Couldn’t agree more.

Being in that area, Im sure you get the feel of how things are going between player and org....in my time in S Jersey I could answer anything Eagles related even though they weren’t my team.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

I tend to just LOVE qbs that are soft mentally. 

And he has done so well since. 

Two quarterbacks that were also 'soft mentally' on their first sign of dysfunction, Steve Young and Brett Favre, say hello.

He hasn't done well since as he's had 4 offensive coordinators and 4 different systems in the last 4 years.  And as a backup, it's sort of hard to be noticed.  Tom Brady says hello.

SAR I

 

[Scott Dierking]

10 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Two quarterbacks that were also 'soft mentally' on their first sign of dysfunction, Steve Young and Brett Favre, say hello.

He hasn't done well since as he's had 4 offensive coordinators and 4 different systems in the last 4 years.  And as a backup, it's sort of hard to be noticed.  Tom Brady says hello.

SAR I

 

Seems like a lot of excuses.

Logic says hello.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, SAR I said:

Four things:

Injured throwing shoulder:  Never the same after surgery.

Time away from the game:  Missed an entire year, then made a backup getting very limited reps.

Mind-fu**** by coaching staff:  These days, more important than physical gifts is the mental part of the game and I defy anyone who has gone from Office Rock Star status to Hated By The Boss status to tell me how that fall from grace doesn't affect someone very deeply.

OC merry go round:  Schottenheimer (2 seasons), Sporano (1 season), Philadelphia (1), Dallas (1), Chicago (1).  That's 5 offenses to learn in 8 years, it's 4 different offenses to learn in the 4 years since leaving the Jets.

If someone wanted to write a book on how to find and screw up a top NFL quarterback prospect, the Jets would be the case study.  You had the wrong head coach at the very moment you finally found a decent young QB in the draft.  If you had an offensive minded head coach you might have made something out of Mark Sanchez.  He showed enough in his first two seasons to be owed more than he got.  To me, it's the most tragic moment in your team's history since Joe Namath decided to go water skiing and blowing both his achilles tendons the year after he missed an entire season due to a knee injury.

SAR I

You should number all the reasons when you're making this many excuses for one person.  One excuse after another for a guy you actual called a top NFL QB prospect, based on a partial season at USC, where maybe you watched a single game.  Maybe. 

And stop making sklt you about Namath.  You still haven't gotten that one right.

But arent you a Giants fan now?  

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

And don't forget that Kenny O had a winning record against Marino. So, we got the better QB anyway. 

Amazing right?  The fish had more talented roster and the better QB but somehow Kenny showed up when they played.  

Without a single excuse made for him, unlike the 10 or so excuses SAR makes for his man crush.

[Patriot Killa]

I’m kind of mad SAR just turned my thread into yet another f*cking 2010 Mark Sanchez thread. Get lost and join a Giants board.. I didn’t spend 2 hours doing this thread for you to suck off Mark Sanchez.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Two quarterbacks that were also 'soft mentally' on their first sign of dysfunction, Steve Young and Brett Favre, say hello.

He hasn't done well since as he's had 4 offensive coordinators and 4 different systems in the last 4 years.  And as a backup, it's sort of hard to be noticed.  Tom Brady says hello.

SAR I

 

Lol, Favre & Young?  Is there any part of football you know about?  So sorry that 2 of the 3 are in the HOF. Lol

[joewilly12]

9 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m kind of mad SAR just turned my thread into yet another f*cking 2010 Mark Sanchez thread. Get lost and join a Giants board.. I didn’t spend 2 hours doing this thread for you to suck off Mark Sanchez.

[Dcat]

Yet another Sanchez derailing? Geez. 

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

I’ll pass. This has nothing to do with Mark and literally every posts from him is about the same thing, that or being a converted Giants fan. Nope. Not on my thread. Be gone with the f*ckery.

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I find that as one of his biggest strengths. Imagine if he was on a team that actually tried to make him better. That wanted him. Needs a change of scenery and he will be a top ten QB for close to a decade. 

Yeah, true.  But one other time, with Kotite we also needed a QB so we signed one and it didn't work out.  Very similar situation.  Ergo won't work today for the same reason, stats and talent be damned. 

[The Crusher]

34 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m kind of mad SAR just turned my thread into yet another f*cking 2010 Mark Sanchez thread. Get lost and join a Giants board.. I didn’t spend 2 hours doing this thread for you to suck off Mark Sanchez.

Well then. Um, hmmm, stay on topic please?

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Well then. Um, hmmm, stay on topic please?

YOU STAY ON TOPIC CRUSHER??? 

 

WE ALL SHOULD STAY ON TOPIC

TOPIC STAY SHOULD ALL DAMNNIT.

 

 

I’m

 

 

flustered.

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

YOU STAY ON TOPIC CRUSHER??? 

 

WE ALL SHOULD STAY ON TOPIC

TOPIC STAY SHOULD ALL DAMNNIT.

 

 

I’m

 

 

flustered.

I was asking SARI and everyone to respect the topic you started.

[The Crusher]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Two quarterbacks that were also 'soft mentally' on their first sign of dysfunction, Steve Young and Brett Favre, say hello.

He hasn't done well since as he's had 4 offensive coordinators and 4 different systems in the last 4 years.  And as a backup, it's sort of hard to be noticed.  Tom Brady says hello.

SAR I

 

Please feel free to ake another Sanchez is a sexy man and the one that got away thread. This thread is about two other QB's. Thanks.

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, The Crusher said:

I was asking SARI and everyone to respect the topic you started.

Suddenly I feel better and appreciated.

 

love you like a fat kid loves cake.❤️

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

You should number all the reasons when you're making this many excuses for one person.  One excuse after another for a guy you actual called a top NFL QB prospect, based on a partial season at USC, where maybe you watched a single game.  Maybe. 

And stop making sklt you about Namath.  You still haven't gotten that one right.

But arent you a Giants fan now?  

His leg ailments involved not only four knee operations, two on each knee, but also a torn hamstring muscle in his left leg, incurred while water skiing. Asked if he would have done anything differently during his career, he replied:

“Yeah, I wouldn't have gone water skiing that day. That torn hamstring is what kept me from being able to move around the last four or five years, not my knees.”

http://www.nytimes.com/1978/01/25/archives/namath-is-retiring-from-pro-football-namath-retiring-after-13.html

SAR I

 

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m kind of mad SAR just turned my thread into yet another f*cking 2010 Mark Sanchez thread. Get lost and join a Giants board.. I didn’t spend 2 hours doing this thread for you to suck off Mark Sanchez.

Was genuinely confused when I read the comments at the top of this page, I appreciate you saving me a click to discover what they were talking about.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

I’m kind of mad SAR just turned my thread into yet another f*cking 2010 Mark Sanchez thread. Get lost and join a Giants board.. I didn’t spend 2 hours doing this thread for you to suck off Mark Sanchez.

Stop starting Kirk F****** Cousins threads with people comparing him to Sanchez and people won't inadvertently derail them.  But back to the subject matter:

1.  The Redskins can franchise him if they want him.  If he's really any good, he's not leaving Washington.

2.  If he hits the market there is nothing, nothing to entice him to join the Jets.  No OL, no RB, weak OC, weak WR's, no TE, skechy HC, questionable GM, displaced owner, tough division.  There is zero chance, zero, that even a slightly-more-than-mediocre veteran QB like Kirk F****** Cousins comes to Florham Park.

So quit getting moist already.

SAR I

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

His leg ailments involved not only four knee operations, two on each knee, but also a torn hamstring muscle in his left leg, incurred while water skiing. Asked if he would have done anything differently during his career, he replied:

“Yeah, I wouldn't have gone water skiing that day. That torn hamstring is what kept me from being able to move around the last four or five years, not my knees.”

http://www.nytimes.com/1978/01/25/archives/namath-is-retiring-from-pro-football-namath-retiring-after-13.html

SAR I

 

No kidding, I knew about it for years.  But instead of just saying he tore his thigh muscle waterskiing you exaggerated it into both hammies.

[SAR I]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

No kidding, I knew about it for years.  But instead of just saying he tore his thigh muscle waterskiing you exaggerated it into both hammies.

I am not derailing this thread.  I read the Namath book by Mark Kriegel 20 years ago and that was my recollection.

My opinions on Kirk Cousins are documented (above) and I'll be happy to discuss that.

SAR I