T0mShane Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 28 minutes ago, Matt39 said: Take that back - it's 3. Mcguire has 2, Devin Smith has 1. 8 minutes ago, dbatesman said: Sweet merciful crap Just peeked in one the awful-drafting Browns. They’ve gotten 25 TDs from their last three draft classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, SenorGato said: I’m not sure what the point is here. I didn’t say it started dying in 2004! You wrote that "Not one QB this postseason is outright the best player on their offense or team anymore." Meanwhile Tom Brady still is. Carson Wentz is as well but he's injured. I feel like you're giving Nick Foles credit for Carson Wentz's achievements. That's 50% of the final 4 and, had Wentz been healthy, it would've been the favorites in both the AFC and the NFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 25 minutes ago, SenorGato said: If that’s all it takes to be amazing then I continue to be excited about where the Jets can/will be this time next year. None of these matter without Ramsey and Fournette being top of the league players. I take out of this that the Jets can both write and rewrite history with some not so distant success. Errr, yeah right ok then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, T0mShane said: Just peeked in one the awful-drafting Browns. They’ve gotten 25 TDs from their last three draft classes. Yes the 0-16 Browns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, TuscanyTile2 said: Where is your evidence that things are changing this year? The 2018 playoffs. We’re on pace to get Bortles/40 year old Brady and Keenum/Foles next week. I’m still completely in the dark on what that list was supposes to show me. 1 minute ago, T0mShane said: Just peeked in one the awful-drafting Browns. They’ve gotten 25 TDs from their last three draft classes. 22 drafts away from catching up to the Browns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, SenorGato said: The 2018 playoffs. We’re on pace to get Bortles/40 year old Brady and Keenum/Foles next week. I’m still completely in the dark on what that list was supposes to show me. 22 drafts away from catching up to the Browns! "40 year old Brady" is the favorite to win NFL MVP. Wentz took the Eagles to where they are but you're giving Foles credit for his accomplishments? That list is supposed to show you that FQBs have won a bunch of SBs the past 15 years and there's no absolutely zero evidence to suggest that things are changing. The reigning SB champ is Brady and he's the favorite to win it again. The NFC's #1 seed was also led by a young FQB in Wentz. Now that Foles is there, the Eagles will likely be the underdog again next week. Meanwhile with Aaron Rodgers, the Packers are a legit SB contender. Without him, they struggle to be a .500 team. I see absolutely no merit to your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Yes the 0-16 Browns More evidence that even the most inept organization in the history of football still drafts better than your NY Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, Jack Straw said: More evidence that even the most inept organization in the history of football still drafts better than your NY Jets. What good has it done them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: What good has it done them? What good are touchdowns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: What good has it done them? Regardless of record, it's left them with more talent than the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 14, 2018 Author Share Posted January 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, HessStation said: Errr, yeah right ok then. You’re basically jerking them off for Fowler and Bortles emerging as mediocre starters four years after the fact and finding a handful of role players in UDFA and non-first picks that you’ve arbitrarily labeled studs outside of the two skill player studs they’ve landed. Crazy as it may sound, that isn’t so otherworldly to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Jack Straw said: Regardless of record, it's left them with more talent than the Jets. You dont go 0-16 with more talent than the Jets Record is what it's all about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, T0mShane said: What good are touchdowns? Well for one, you can't have a bad red zone offense if you never get into the red zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: You dont go 0-16 with more talent than the Jets Record is what it's all about You have literally dedicated the last two years of your life to lecturing strangers on the Internet why 5-win seasons are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 that's a hot take. One thing that's always been true is that you don't have to have an all world QB to win a championship, you just have to have a good one- or at least one that gets hot at the right time. In the end it takes a great TEAM to win a championship, a stout defense, valuable offensive weapons, a good offensive line, etc. A really good Qb helps but is not the only factor involved (or else the Saints, Packers and Colts would have been winning titles every single year instead of just a few). nothing about this postseason changes that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said: You have literally dedicated the last two years of your life to lecturing strangers on the Internet why 5-win seasons are good. Expectations expectations expectations. If they are 5-11 this year with higher expectations. Bowles should be kicked to the curb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 24 minutes ago, T0mShane said: This is why we made you captain, Larz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 The thing I think gets loss in all of this is there is an enormous difference between a HOF QB and a franchise QB. It is really a pet peeve of mine when people say something like, "Tom Brady, case closed". Tom Brady is the exception, hell he's even a step past the exception. Belicheck and Brady as a duo are the reasons for their dominance. Neither individually would be nearly as prolific without the other. A "franchise" QB doesn't guaranty crap. Matthew Stafford is a franchise QB, the Lions aren't any sort of sure thing. Philip Rivers is a franchise QB. Jameis Winston. Andrew Luck. There are lots of examples. Bottom line is if you do not have an elite, first ballot HOF type QB, it still comes down to having a complete roster and good coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 And the Jets need a major upgrade at the position to compete for a championship. Just because the Jags and Vikes can get away with having a QB that was no good on paper doesn't mean the Jets shouldn't TRY to improve on the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, HawkeyeJet said: The thing I think gets loss in all of this is there is an enormous difference between a HOF QB and a franchise QB. It is really a pet peeve of mine when people say something like, "Tom Brady, case closed". Tom Brady is the exception, he'll he's even a step past the exception. Belicheck and Brady as a duo are the reasons for their dominance. Neither individually would be nearly as prolific without the other. A "franchise" QB doesn't guaranty crap. Matthew Stafford is a franchise QB, the Lions aren't any sort of sure thing. Philip Rivers is a franchise QB. Jamie's Winston. Andrew Luck. There are lots of examples. Bottom line is if you do not have an elite, first ballot HOF type QB, it still comes down to having a complete roster and good coaching. Comes back to definition. What is the definition of a franchise QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tony MaC said: that's a hot take. One thing that's always been true is that you don't have to have an all world QB to win a championship, you just have to have a good one- or at leas tone that gets hot at the right time. In the end it takes a great TEAM to win a championship, a stout defense, valuable offensive weapons, a good offensive line, etc. A really good Qb helps but is not the only factor involved (or else the Saints, Packers and Colts would have been winning titles every single year instead of just a few). nothing about this postseason changes that. Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are all HOFers. Russell Wilson has a shot at being HOFer as well. Only Joe Flacco isn't HOF-worthy of the most recent SB winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Gotta say Keenum isn't exactly blowing a cool breeze on my balls this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, UnitedWhofans said: Comes back to definition. What is the definition of a franchise QB? "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is. ... If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 Just now, Jack Straw said: "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is. ... If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement" Thank you Bill, Keep Hillary up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are all HOFers. Russell Wilson has a shot at being HOFer as well. Only Joe Flacco isn't HOF-worthy of the most recent SB winners. Okay... I don't see your point. Really good franchise QB's help you win championships. This is known, there's no disputing that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that its not the only factor and that's almost always been the case, so the OP's barking up the wrong tree by saying their time is coming to an end based on this postseason. Almost all those teams listed above had more than just a great QB, and many teams who didn't win the title but had one but lacked in other areas. Edit- Though I have to say if you want to see a championship winning team win despite their QB the Bronco's are a good example, they had the ghost of Peyton Manning as their QB- he was far better when they lost during 48. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said: The thing I think gets loss in all of this is there is an enormous difference between a HOF QB and a franchise QB. It is really a pet peeve of mine when people say something like, "Tom Brady, case closed". Tom Brady is the exception, hell he's even a step past the exception. Belicheck and Brady as a duo are the reasons for their dominance. Neither individually would be nearly as prolific without the other. A "franchise" QB doesn't guaranty crap. Matthew Stafford is a franchise QB, the Lions aren't any sort of sure thing. Philip Rivers is a franchise QB. Jameis Winston. Andrew Luck. There are lots of examples. Bottom line is if you do not have an elite, first ballot HOF type QB, it still comes down to having a complete roster and good coaching. Ooooh, nice So it’s more like a last hurrah for last generation’s HOF QBs. Something did feel off when I started the thread, could have went with a less sensational title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Tony MaC said: Okay... I don't see your point. Really good franchise QB's help you win championships. This is known, there's no disputing that. I guess what I'm trying to say is that its not the only factor and that's almost always been the case, so the OP's barking up the wrong tree by saying their time is coming to an end based on this postseason. Almost all those teams listed above had more than just a great QB, and many teams who didn't win the title but had one but lacked in other areas. Nobody is saying that it's a QB alone but let's not kid ourselves: Packers with Aaron Rodgers = legit SB contender Packers without Aaron Rodgers = probably an under .500 team 49ers without Jimmy G = 1-10 record 49ers with Jimmy G = 5-0 record Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Ooooh, nice So it’s more like a last hurrah for last generation’s HOF QBs. Something did feel off when I started the thread, could have went with a less sensational title. It'll be that when Brady retires. Or when he drops dead. Which ever comes first, and at this point I'm thinking the latter is more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony MaC Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Nobody is saying that it's a QB alone. But let's not kid ourselves. Packers with Aaron Rodgers = legit SB contender Packers without Aaron Rodgers = probably an under .500 team 49ers without Jimmy G = 1-10 record 49ers with Jimmy G = 5-0 record QB is important, yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, Tony MaC said: QB is important, yup. "important" - lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Ooooh, nice So it’s more like a last hurrah for last generation’s HOF QBs. Something did feel off when I started the thread, could have went with a less sensational title. Just for the record, that wasn't directed at you. I tend to agree with you. I've said it before actually. I think NFL franchises are realizing how hard it is to hit on QBs coming out of the current college landscape, so focus is shifting back to other areas so that you can still compete without getting that golden ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Today featured 2 HOF QBs, a #5 overall pick and a journeyman. Yesterday featured a HOF QB, a #3 overall pick former MVP, a #2 overall pick and a back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Pretty sure the Gato Curse just gave us Brees vs Brady in the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, JiF said: Today featured 2 HOF QBs, a #5 overall pick and a journeyman. Yesterday featured a HOF QB, a #3 overall pick former MVP, a #2 overall pick and a back up. Soooo you’re saying sign McCown to a 3 year deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said: Just for the record, that wasn't directed at you. I tend to agree with you. I've said it before actually. I think NFL franchises are realizing how hard it is to hit on QBs coming out of the current college landscape, so focus is shifting back to other areas so that you can still compete without getting that golden ticket. Nah I thought you were just speaking to the thread and just agree with you in general. I think factors like improved pro coaching at the position, increased specialization on offense, and a less mystical approach to the position have contributed to what we’re seeing this postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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