Sully80 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 7 hours ago, Freemanm said: Umm, Big Ben threw for over 400 yards and five TDs. I think the loss was more on Tomlin and the defense. Jaguars were held to 10 points by the Bills. Steelers were downright stupid this game, both coaching and playing Is AB no longer a part of the Steelers offense? Because he’s the best player on that team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, SenorGato said: That would be on you THO, not something I control for you. Listen Much Ado, there's no need to get snippy. We're on the same team. Also, I'm a hypocrite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 14 hours ago, Larz said: I think the running game has made a come back but minny and the jags have great defenses and still they could not get stops when they needed them. I hate he current NFL. They kill D's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 8 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said: I'll take a shot at that one. A QB who is the undisputed long term leader of a franchise. A Qb that is good enough to take a team with a top 16 defense to the playoffs and win a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 9 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said: Sanchez did it a few years back, so anything is possible especially when you have a D like Jacksonville. The one thing consoling me right now about the remaining field is - Brady is going to have to face the Jax D next week and, if he wins that one, either the Eagles or Vikings D in the Superbowl. That's three defenses that can all hit a QB hard, and often. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering jets fan Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, varjet said: A Qb that is good enough to take a team with a top 16 defense to the playoffs and win a game. There needs to be a sense of permanence and a linkage that he and the franchise are one. In other words the face of the franchise over a period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 8 hours ago, Snell41 said: What an incredible crock of sh*t! First of all, Foles didn’t get PHI there, their FRANCHISE QB, Wentz did. Bortles may not be great, but he’s a first round franchise QB. Case Keenum is playing out of his mind at the moment, and Brady is Brady. TEN-Mariota. StL-Goff. PIT-Roethlisberger. ATL-Ryan. NO-Brees. CAR-Newton. KC-Smith. Christ every team but MIN and BUF got the the playoffs with a franchise QB. Yeah, let’s draft more defense dumbasses. Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app I agreed with your post up to here. That next sentence (starting with "Bortles may not be great but...") is where you lost me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, long suffering jets fan said: There needs to be a sense of permanence and a linkage that he and the franchise are one. In other words the face of the franchise over a period of time. Is this a plea for the Jets to re-sign McCown? /sarc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
long suffering jets fan Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Is this a plea for the Jets to re-sign McCown? /sarc I was taking a shot at defining a franchise QB. McCown was never the undisputed face of the franchise over a period of time. He was a career backup/spot starter/bridge to the next guy. I'm a Cousins guy. McCown resign only if we draft a rookie QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 15 hours ago, SenorGato said: Not one QB this postseason is outright the best player on their offense or team anymore. And if I’m being honest it has made for some pretty good football outside of the primetime Saturday night game that no one should have watched anyway. So ultimately are you arguing that a FQB is no longer something a team should strive to acquire? If so, I'd like to nominate this post for whatever the opposite of "post of the year" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Is this a plea for the Jets to re-sign McCown? /sarc No we should keep Petty and Hack because “we still don’t know” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 10 hours ago, varjet said: Of the four teams remaining, none of them are paying top, top dollar for their QB. Bortles is at 19, Brady at 20. Wentz is on a rookie contract, and Keenum who knows. Thus, these teams have the resources to build the rest of their team. The Packers can pay Rodgers because the Packers are excellent drafters. This is where the Jets come off the rails. They're so excellent at drafting that they couldn't even go .500 while Rodgers was injured. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Philly, Min and Jax can all follow the Giants formula to winning a SB. Great D w/ mediocre QB who can make some plays. Denver used the same formula 2 years ago w/ a once great QB who was a shell of himself during that run. People handing the Lombardi to NE again forget how the Giants beat them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, nyjunc said: Philly, Min and Jax can all follow the Giants formula to winning a SB. Great D w/ mediocre QB who can make some plays. Denver used the same formula 2 years ago w/ a once great QB who was a shell of himself during that run. People handing the Lombardi to NE again forget how the Giants beat them. Jags can beat NE. But will the refs get involved? I would love to see NE/Jax in a true road Super Bowl against Minnesota Mark Sanchez in that NE playoff game: 16/25 194 yards and 3 TDs. Can Blake Bortles do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Jags can beat NE. But will the refs get involved? I would love to see NE/Jax in a true road Super Bowl against Minnesota NE got some calls but they crushed Ten. In a close game that could sway the game, hopefully that doesn't happen. jax has some loose cannons on that team that can get dumb penalties this weekend. Let's hope that doesn't happen. Bortles has to play a mostly clean game like yesterday and the D has to play like they are capable. if they give up 42 they aren't beating NE(obviously), Fournette has to control this game on O and the D needs to do what they do best and create some TOs. I saw an article yesterday where Rex said the jags remind him of the Jet teams he led to title games and I agree for the most part. Can they pull off a 2010 Jets? I sure hope so. even if Min wins it wouldn't be a true road SB, it's not like Viking fans get those tickets. There should be more Viking fans in that building but it won't be like a Viking home game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, nyjunc said: NE got some calls but they crushed Ten. In a close game that could sway the game, hopefully that doesn't happen. jax has some loose cannons on that team that can get dumb penalties this weekend. Let's hope that doesn't happen. Bortles has to play a mostly clean game like yesterday and the D has to play like they are capable. if they give up 42 they aren't beating NE(obviously), Fournette has to control this game on O and the D needs to do what they do best and create some TOs. I saw an article yesterday where Rex said the jags remind him of the Jet teams he led to title games and I agree for the most part. Can they pull off a 2010 Jets? I sure hope so. even if Min wins it wouldn't be a true road SB, it's not like Viking fans get those tickets. There should be more Viking fans in that building but it won't be like a Viking home game. They absolutely remind me of the Ryan Jets. That's why I put up Sanchez's stat line for that NE game. Can Bortles do that? Sanchez: 16/25 194 yards and 3 TDs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said: They absolutely remind me of the Ryan Jets. That's why I put up Sanchez's stat line for that NE game. Can Bortles do that? Sanchez: 16/25 194 yards and 3 TDs Mark was excellent hat day, his #s don't show how good he was. The play that turned that game was his 3rd down scramble and redirecting of Braylon to set up that 1st TD. he had the perfect throw to Holmes, the big pass play to Cotch after NE cut it to 3. he was really good that day. Can Bortles do that? I'm not sure but he also has a better RB to rely on than we had. I think if he plays a mostly clean game(no awful TOs that change the game) they will have a good chance to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 What was interesting to me in this year's playoffs, and the season in general, is that NFL are rapidly adapting to QBs who ran 1 read/spread offenses in college. There is no more "these QBs don't under NFL offenses excuses"-the smart coaches are being forced to adapt. Goff, Keenum, Foles and Watson all had success. I think we will see soon enough that the "Mahomes can't play in the NFL" hypothesis is false. This could drive some of the other QBs higher in the draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said: So ultimately are you arguing that a FQB is no longer something a team should strive to acquire? Yeah that’s probably the conclusion to come to reading the post you quoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freemanm Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 11 hours ago, Sully80 said: Is AB no longer a part of the Steelers offense? Because he’s the best player on that team My point is that the Steelers didn't lose because of Big Ben. He's still the reason they got to the playoffs and have had such a long run of playoff appearances. I think it's early to say that the elite QB era is over, particularly in a year when Tom Brady and the Patsies are probably going to win another SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 BTW, for people who are scared of Kirk Cousins, ask yourself: Is Blake Bortles better? Is Nick FOles better? Is Case Keenum better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: BTW, for people who are scared of Kirk Cousins, ask yourself: Is Blake Bortles better? Is Nick FOles better? Is Case Keenum better? They may not be better at compiling worthless regular season but these guys have shown an ability to grind out playoff wins which Cousins has not. On top of that they will all be cheaper than Cousins. Are you say they are not better value and that Cousins deserves to make more than Terry Bradshaw did? One guy has rings the other has compiled stats for three years. All the Jets have to do is draft a rookie QB who will be cheap and spend $30 million on a RG and C this offseason. What this playoff run has proved is that QB does not have to be the highest paid player on the team. Cousins wants alot of money when we can just draft a QB who can do what he does, which is easy and just basic compiling at QB, particularly since he has not shown the Fire or the Will to lead his team to ultimate foozeball glory. If anything these guys also prove that Teddy Bridgewater will be better value than Cousins. Bridgewater to Allen Robinson - if those guys knees stay together as 300 pound men try to hurt them you are getting some special value. This game is about value and value is determined by what costs less. That’s the thing Cousinites do not understand, value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimjasi Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 You are missing the point. The point is that having a "franchise QB" gives you a much better chance to consistently field a competitively viable team that can actually contend for a championship. Starting QBs of the NFC Playoff teams - Carson Wentz, Case Keenum, Jared Goff, Drew Brees, Cam Newton, Matt Ryan. Starting QBs of the AFC Playoff teams - Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Blake Bortles, Alex Smith (debatable), Marcus Mariota, Tyrod Taylor. All of the bolded guys (8 out of 12 playoff QBs) are either well established franchise QBs OR look like they have a great chance to be. (Also, I could have easily included Alex Smith and Keenum is only 29). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 8 hours ago, nyjunc said: Philly, Min and Jax can all follow the Giants formula to winning a SB. Great D w/ mediocre QB who can make some plays. Denver used the same formula 2 years ago w/ a once great QB who was a shell of himself during that run. People handing the Lombardi to NE again forget how the Giants beat them. Eli is a HOF QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysd Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 1:51 PM, Beerfish said: That has never been the case, however it is the case if you want to have a shot at the title each year and make the playoffs each year. If your QB is a medium level or worse guy you are not making the playoffs 8 out of 10 years. This is the perfect answer. Can you catch lightning in a bottle and win a SB with just an above average QB? Absolutely? Eli did it twice, Dilfer, etc...we could have very easily won with Sanchez if we could have just help onto Rapelisburger in the Championship game, but if you really want to win a SB you need to have a franchise QB and have multiple chances to win one. There are 6 new teams in the playoffs almost every year, so there will always be teams late in the process with a non franchise QB. The decision you have to make as a team is are you OK with being mediocre and hope to catch lightning in a bottle or are you willing to take a risk and build a team from scratch and develop a franchise QB? I think our ownership is in the first camp, though I am not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysd Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 2:00 PM, Patriot Killa said: Defense still wins championships in the end. But that doesn’t mean you can have an anemic offense. Game has changed in that aspect but not as much as people think. Defense does NOT win championships. The best balanced teams in the playoffs DO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 11 minutes ago, johnnysd said: Defense does NOT win championships. The best balanced teams in the playoffs DO ...this was basically my point lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 2 hours ago, johnnysd said: Defense does NOT win championships. The best balanced teams in the playoffs DO defense absolutely does win in the playoffs - problem is building an elite defense and keeping it together is extremely difficult Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnysd Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 5 hours ago, cant wait said: defense absolutely does win in the playoffs - problem is building an elite defense and keeping it together is extremely difficult No it is balance with the team being Top 10 in either offense or defense. You can see that here: http://www.nfl.com/superbowlchamps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 14 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Eli is a HOF QB. No he's not, he's a mediocre QB who played well enough to win when his D played out of their minds in those 2 playoff runs. HOF QBs are supposed to be all time greats, Eli is not even one of the best QBs of his generation. Blake Bortles after 4 years has been better than Eli Manning was after 4 and Eli never had a sustained run of greatness, he had great games but was never consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, nyjunc said: Blake Bortles after 4 years has been better than Eli Manning Yes! You're at your best right now. Two different threads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnight89 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 22 hours ago, nyjunc said: NE got some calls but they crushed Ten. In a close game that could sway the game, hopefully that doesn't happen. jax has some loose cannons on that team that can get dumb penalties this weekend. Let's hope that doesn't happen. Bortles has to play a mostly clean game like yesterday and the D has to play like they are capable. if they give up 42 they aren't beating NE(obviously), Fournette has to control this game on O and the D needs to do what they do best and create some TOs. I saw an article yesterday where Rex said the jags remind him of the Jet teams he led to title games and I agree for the most part. Can they pull off a 2010 Jets? I sure hope so. even if Min wins it wouldn't be a true road SB, it's not like Viking fans get those tickets. There should be more Viking fans in that building but it won't be like a Viking home game. I think the Jags D is better than our D's during those runs because they have the one thing that has eluded us for a long time. A consistent pass rush. Great cover corners and a legit pass rush that will make life hell for Brady. We needed Sanchez to play as well as he did that game to win. Our D wouldn't have won us that game without him. He didn't just play a clean game, he was very good. Had Sanchez just not turn the ball over I don't know if we necessarily win. We needed him to play well. Bortles can get by playing a safe game if the D shows up in a big way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenwichjetfan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Case is a good QB who will be a FQB at the end of this year (at least contract wise). Defenses have always shared responsibility for playoff successes (and failures when they don't perform). So, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Werblin Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 8:22 AM, TuscanyTile2 said: They're so excellent at drafting that they couldn't even go .500 while Rodgers was injured. It's all about the QB paired with a competent HC. It cracks me up how so many Jet fans talk about how the Jets could win with an average QB if they build a top 5 D and have an awesome running game. How many draft picks have to work out to do that? LOL. Just take the first round pick and select a QB. That is where the vast majority of the great one's are found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 21 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said: BTW, for people who are scared of Kirk Cousins, ask yourself: Is Blake Bortles better? Is Nick FOles better? Is Case Keenum better? I’d prefer Cousins over Mayfield and Allen but our roster is far from good. Right now it’s not even average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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