Interesting tidbits by Pauline on Cousins and Hack

[Maxman]

10 hours ago, Dinamite said:

http://draftanalyst.com/shrine-game-monday-night-notes

 

Tony Pauline reports from the shrine game practices and has some interesting things to say about Cousins suitors and the idea that Hack is done and could be traded for a conditional pick.

Excellent insight.  

Did Tony P ever come over here after the final ji purge? Always seemed like a good dude.

[Philc1]

.  You couldn’t give Hack away right now let alone get a draft pick for him

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

agree, someone will probably have to send a pick to Washington, mid-round ideally but they could hold out for a 2nd similar to Jimmy G - probably cheaper than poison pill like contract - everyone "wins"

 

good news on hack, take a 7th and run - save $1.2m and let's hope Mac learned a lesson, game tape matters, not potential from personal workout

Washington knows Mac wants Cousins and they will demand our first round pick after they tag him

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Washington knows Mac wants Cousins and they will demand our first round pick after they tag him

Says nobody but you 

[Philc1]

Just now, The Crusher said:

Says nobody but you 

Ok skippy we will see what happens in 1-2 months

[BigO]

4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Washington knows Mac wants Cousins and they will demand our first round pick after they tag him

Infatuation is not a healthy thing. Unless it’s good ole southern Mac n Cheese ? 

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Washington knows Mac wants Cousins and they will demand our first round pick after they tag him

Why is the world would we give them a first round pick - or any pick for that matter.

If Washington is willing to match the contract - then they very much want to keep him.  If they're not then they won't match it.

If we're giving up our 1st round pick - would rather have Mayfield.

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Why is the world would we give them a first round pick - or any pick for that matter.

If Washington is willing to match the contract - then they very much want to keep him.  If they're not then they won't match it.

If we're giving up our 1st round pick - would rather have Mayfield.

Mayfield is going to be a bust.  We’re way better off with Cousins and I’m not even a huge fan of Cousins

[FidelioJet]

10 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

.  You couldn’t give Hack away right now let alone get a draft pick for him

I don't know - there's always someone that thinks they can fix a player with a natural skill set.

We are talking about a Conditional draft pick - really will depend on what that condition is - make the team? plays in a game? etc.

I just think the Jets need to get him off the roster - 

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Ok skippy we will see what happens in 1-2 months

Another negative over dramatization by the jetnation badboy drama queen. Probably give both seconds too huh? 

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't know - there's always someone that thinks they can fix a player with a natural skill set.

We are talking about a Conditional draft pick - really will depend on what that condition is - make the team? plays in a game? etc.

I just think the Jets need to get him off the roster - 

Cut Hack.  Nobody in the nfl is stupid enough to give up a draft pick for him even a conditional 7th

 

 

Petty needs to go to let them face eachother in Canada next year

[section314]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't know - there's always someone that thinks they can fix a player with a natural skill set.

We are talking about a Conditional draft pick - really will depend on what that condition is - make the team? plays in a game? etc.

I just think the Jets need to get him off the roster - 

Agreed. Always been that way, and probably always will be.

[#27TheDominator]

News around here a few weeks ago was that the Skins weren't even going to bother with the transition tag because it would be too easy for teams to structure a deal they couldn't/wouldn't match.  I don't see them franchising him because I don't think they will even be able to carry him temporarily at the tag figure and it won't look good carrying him at that number again.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

News around here a few weeks ago was that the Skins weren't even going to bother with the transition tag because it would be too easy for teams to structure a deal they couldn't/wouldn't match.  I don't see them franchising him because I don't think they will even be able to carry him temporarily at the tag figure and it won't look good carrying him at that number again.

Is this a deal where Snyder wants to keep him but Gruden doesn’t? That’s what it seems like from afar.

[bla bla bla]

9 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Arizona, Denver, Cleveland, Jets, Redskins..

DAMN.

expect this bidding war to truly get out of hand. I have a gut feeling we don’t get him.

It should also be noted that if Transition Tagged the Browns and Jets are the only teams able to out match the Redskins for a contract. If Cousins hits FA though the Cardinals, Broncos, and Jags all sort of have a chance but they may not look as attractive once they make some cuts. I could see Denver restructuring players and Cousins taking a lower deal to play for Elway though.

If he hits FA I give us a 40% chance of getting him, if he is Transition Tagged I think that number jumps to nearly 100%.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

It should also be noted that if Transition Tagged the Browns and Jets are the only teams able to out match the Redskins for a contract. If Cousins hits FA though the Cardinals, Broncos, and Jags all sort of have a chance but they may not look as attractive once they make some cuts. I could see Denver restructuring players and Cousins taking a lower deal to play for Elway though.

If he hits FA I give us a 40% chance of getting him, if he is Transition Tagged I think that number jumps to nearly 100%.

I just think if they Transition Tag him they have every intention of keeping him.

[Sonny Werblin]

9 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Those teams’ cap space going into the 2018 offseason in millions obviously:

$27.8

$28.6

$112.4

$80.6

$53.9

So the first two don’t have the money. The other three of those teams have a legit shot at Cousins without cutting starters, he’s been shutting down one of them for 3 years now. It’s Jets vs. Browns and an easy call for Cousins. 

That is just a silly over-simplistic view of the situation. It's not like the Browns or the Jets would offer Cousins a contract with a $50+ million dollar cap hit in 2018. The Cardinals and Denver have plenty of money to sign Cousins to a long term contract.  The reason they have less available money than the other teams is because the other teams have worse players who are, correctly so, being paid less, which should actually factor into Mr. Cousins decision if he wants to win, rather than just make the most money he possibly can. 

[nycdan]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

I just think if they Transition Tag him they have every intention of keeping him.

Maybe but both NYJ and CLE can frontload the contract in a way they can't match.  I'm not up on the details, but if we moved some of the signing bonus into year 1, that would put it all into the 2018 cap where we have a lot more flexibility.  Say $40MM in 2018 salary instead of perhaps $28MM and just reduce the signing bonus by $12MM.  Same thing to Cousins but a lot more difficult for WAS to match.  It also helps us conserve some cap later on.  

If that works under the rules, I wouldn't be shocked to see that sort of offer.

[SenorGato]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

That is just a silly over-simplistic view of the situation. It's not like the Browns or the Jets would offer Cousins a contract with a $50+ million dollar cap hit in 2018. The Cardinals and Denver have plenty of money to sign Cousins to a long term contract.  The reason they have less available money than the other teams is because the other teams have worse players who are, correctly so, being paid less, which should actually factor into Mr. Cousins decision if her wants to win, rather than just make the most money he possibly can. 

Uh huh...As for the big finisher - the Broncos are picking ahead of the Jets for a reason and it’s not because they’re some sleeping giant. 

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

agree, someone will probably have to send a pick to Washington, mid-round ideally but they could hold out for a 2nd similar to Jimmy G - probably cheaper than poison pill like contract - everyone "wins"

If he is Transition Tagged we won't need to give up anything, we'd only need to structure a contract so the Redskins couldn't match it. You'd front load the crap out of that deal but still pay the same average salary he would have gotten.

 

 

[bla bla bla]

12 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I just think if they Transition Tag him they have every intention of keeping him.

Agreed but they won't be able to match on offer from the Jets or Browns so they wouldn't be able to keep him.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

Uh huh...As for the big finisher - the Broncos are picking ahead of the Jets for a reason and it’s not because they’re some sleeping giant. 

So, your saying that overall the Jets have a more talented roster than the Broncos?? If so, that is a ridiculous statement. they pasted the Jets 23-0. They had the #3 D in yards/game in the NFL, and had the number 12 rushing O despite having a non-entity at QB all season. If Cousins signs with them, he will also have Thomas and Sanders as his WRs. They actually are, in fact, a sleeping giant in need of only a solid QB to be SB contender.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Is this a deal where Snyder wants to keep him but Gruden doesn’t? That’s what it seems like from afar.

I think it is an example where there is a bunch of question about who makes what decisions in their front office.  Remember, they had McLoughan in there through last year and the Cousins thing was a big part of the friction they had with him.  McLoughan lobbied to start him over RGIII and wanted to lock Cousins up immediately.  OTOH, I think McLoughan had the idea that Cousins was at his ceiling pretty early and did not want to end up giving him franchise money which got him pulled from the negotiations.  Bruce Allen calls him Kurt and they had a press conference that seemed aimed at getting fans to see Cousins as greedy. 

I think that their front office is just looking to get out from under it without looking too bad.  

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Agreed but they won't be able to match on offer from the Jets or Browns so they wouldn't be able to keep him.

Couldn't Denver backload the contract - as long as it's Guaranteed what's really the difference for Cousins?  If Denver wants Cousins and Cousins want to play for Denver - Denver will put together a deal that offers the same total guaranteed dollars.  I don't know what Denvers long term cap situation looks like but over the course of 5 or 6 years butI'm sure they can make the numbers work pretty easily - without killing themselves.

I do think it's unlikely Cousins would take less total dollars from anyone - but I'm sure any team that wants him bad enough can make the numbers work.

[flgreen]

9 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Arizona, Denver, Cleveland, Jets, Redskins..

DAMN.

expect this bidding war to truly get out of hand. I have a gut feeling we don’t get him.

Arizona has 10.6M in cap space, they'll have to do some cap magic to pull that off.  Denver is in somewhat better shape with around 24.5, but if it strictly comes down to highest bidder, and I think it will, the auction will be between the Browns and Jets.

Interesting side play here perhaps, if it starts to get VERY expensive, is it possible the Browns trade the #1 pick to the Jets, with a bit of compensation relief, for the Jets to step aside, and save the Browns millions in the price of Cousins?

[joewilly12]

Stop the presses NJ.com mock draft says........

2. Jets*: Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA

We have a trade! We have a trade!

Giants general manager Dave Gettleman and (likely) new head coach Pat Shurmur come to this conclusion: The Giants can win now, dump Eli Manning and still move down to collect major draft picks.

Out goes Manning in a separate deal for a third rounder. Out goes the No. 2 overall pick to the Jets for a haul that includes two future No. 1 selections. In comes one of Shurmur’s free-agent quarterbacks from Minnesota (Sam Bradford? Case Keenum? Teddy Bridgewater?).

As for the Jets? The answer at quarterback finally arrives in Rosen. Get ready for an outspoken, thoughtful and fascinating character, New York! Oh, he can play the position at a star level, too—something the Jets haven’t had in a long time.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

Stop the presses NJ.com mock draft says........

2. Jets*: Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA

We have a trade! We have a trade!

Giants general manager Dave Gettleman and (likely) new head coach Pat Shurmur come to this conclusion: The Giants can win now, dump Eli Manning and still move down to collect major draft picks.

Out goes Manning in a separate deal for a third rounder. Out goes the No. 2 overall pick to the Jets for a haul that includes two future No. 1 selections. In comes one of Shurmur’s free-agent quarterbacks from Minnesota (Sam Bradford? Case Keenum? Teddy Bridgewater?).

As for the Jets? The answer at quarterback finally arrives in Rosen. Get ready for an outspoken, thoughtful and fascinating character, New York! Oh, he can play the position at a star level, too—something the Jets haven’t had in a long time.

Mock drafts aren’t exactly anything to stop the presses over 

[Patriot Killa]

3 hours ago, jack48 said:

Blowes will love Cousins' INTs

I’m sure he will take all 50 of them if it means getting all 100 of his touchdowns

[MDL_JET]

Jets trade Hack for nearly nothing. Hack becomes a good QB. 

Jets miss out on a bidding war for Cousins to the Browns. The Browns make the playoffs. 

Rosen, Allen, Darnold taken ahead in the draft. Jets pass on Mayfield. Take ILB. Start McCown with Mason Rudolph at 2nd string. 

[Beerfish]

Any team that really wants cousins as a qb will find the cap room.  They'll cut, trade do whatever they have to do.

Can't see any team giving up anything for Hackenburg.  Also the jets never gave this guy a shot at all, and I say this as one of the most anti Hack people on here since day one. 

[joewilly12]

32 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Mock drafts aren’t exactly anything to stop the presses over 

Neither are your threads. 

[nycdan]

39 minutes ago, flgreen said:

Arizona has 10.6M in cap space, they'll have to do some cap magic to pull that off.  Denver is in somewhat better shape with around 24.5, but if it strictly comes down to highest bidder, and I think it will, the auction will be between the Browns and Jets.

Interesting side play here perhaps, if it starts to get VERY expensive, is it possible the Browns trade the #1 pick to the Jets, with a bit of compensation relief, for the Jets to step aside, and save the Browns millions in the price of Cousins?

So you are suggesting that the two teams collude, illegally I might add, in order to save the Browns a few million dollars while risking far more if it ever comes out?  I see exactly no chance of that happening.  Plus, why would the Browns give up that pick for any reason without getting back the massive compensation it would warrant.  They have enough cap room to overspend if they really want him.  

[nycdan]

26 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

Jets trade Hack for nearly nothing. Hack becomes a good QB. 

Jets miss out on a bidding war for Cousins to the Browns. The Browns make the playoffs. 

Rosen, Allen, Darnold taken ahead in the draft. Jets pass on Mayfield. Take ILB. Start McCown with Mason Rudolph at 2nd string. 

I hate you.  And it's hard for me to hate this early in the week but I truly hate you.  Particularly because this isn't entirely implausible.

[Adoni Beast]

Drafted Petty to be a backup, shouldn’t even be a third string.

Drafted Hack to be a franchise quarterback. Can’t even see the field for a single snap.

Passed on Watson and Mahomes who were right there for us.

Didn’t pull the trigger when we could have trade for the spot to get Goff or Wentz.

I think its safe to assume that Mac + Drafting QB’s is a recipe for disaster. He’ll be going all in for Cousins.

[flgreen]

53 minutes ago, nycdan said:

So you are suggesting that the two teams collude, illegally I might add, in order to save the Browns a few million dollars while risking far more if it ever comes out?  I see exactly no chance of that happening.  Plus, why would the Browns give up that pick for any reason without getting back the massive compensation it would warrant.  They have enough cap room to overspend if they really want him.  

Yeah, your right, what was I thinking, teams never collude, or tamper with players, and HC's in the NFL.  Particularly when it comes to franchise QB's.

I never said the Browns would give the #1 to the Jets, I said "with a bit of compensation relief"