BrickTamland Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Was so hyped about this guy coming into this year. I remember listening to Scott McCloughan (sp?) talking him up on the radio in some interview. I was pumped up!! Felt like Kevin must feel when he jets up. This was when it still seemed like Darnold, Rosen, and Allen were AMAZING CANT MISS PROSPECTS and we still had a chance at no.1 overall pick. Then as the season continued, he just continued to be MEH. His size speed and arm talent are off the charts. None of these things are the most important tool that a QB needs. Accuracy, accuracy, accuracy, football IQ, and dedication are the most important. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 55 minutes ago, derp said: The highlights are absolutely unreal. If he had any semblance of consistency he'd be a lock for #1 though. There's a lot of bad that goes with that good. I did see some recent adjusted accuracy stats, maybe related to a Lamar Jackson thread? But when adjusting for drops, etc Allen doesn't exactly skyrocket up. Seems like he missed plenty of throws. Need to watch some on my own, but that's scary. I do think his Senior Bowl performance will be extremely interesting. t's super fun to dream on, and I love the idea of having a big QB with a cannon for cold weather games, but trying to fix a QB who's wildly inconsistent and mostly tools rarely if ever works. Also it's not like the Jets are exactly going to have their pick of QB's in this draft. To be honest - if they take one in the first round I'm going to simultaneously be excited about it and have a feeling of impending doom regardless of who it is. I so agree. Little bit excited. Little bit vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, KRL said: Much respect for the research. You provided one example to my question Well this comes up so often, I think I can recite the numbers in my sleep. Granted, Favre is that very rare outlier. Someone mentioned Moon also. But completion percentage is a function of more than just the QB so I don't consider it the be all, end all stat. There are some very high completion guys who utterly fail in the NFL as well. Having said all that, I only like Allen as even a consideration if Darnold and Rosen are both gone and we didn't sign Cousins. So I guess he's Plan D for me (maybe E if we put Mayfield ahead of him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, flgreen said: I mean how can you even try to make any kind of determination here. Was like watching a mass slaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, HessStation said: I mean how can you even try to make any kind of determination here. Was like watching a mass slaughter. Oof, that is horrible. Does Wyoming even recruit non-QBs or is the rest of the team all walk-ons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, lounap23 said: Did you even watch ? And give me your breakdown as to why you say NoNoNoNo 21 times do u think he'll be able to do the same thing vs NFL db's ?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, lounap23 said: This thread on Josh Allen will show you the throws he can make. And the accuracy in which he makes them. As well as his athletic ability and arm strength... It's a small snippet but it's not hard to see the immense talent the kid has https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status/951508779954266112 So his highlights. Now show us his lowlights too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, HessStation said: I mean how can you even try to make any kind of determination here. Was like watching a mass slaughter. Yeah...........It was posted as a counterbalance to posters who tout a player by putting up a high light reel , and pretend that's what the guy played like game in, and game out. As i said earlier in the thread, before the season, when every one was pushing the "suck for Sam" line, I actually thought Allen was going to be the top QB in the draft. Actually watched quite a few of Wyoming games. I was wrong. When faced with good teams Allen folded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, kelly said: do u think he'll be able to do the same thing vs NFL db's ?.. The guy is 6'5 235, a cannon and probably runs a 4.6. So probably. It's so weird when I don't even like a prospect necessarily but here I am. Some of you guys are nuts. Just stick to whether or not he'll be able to be consistently accurate enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Hackenburg 6'4" 228 rocket arm last college year 54% 2525 yards 16 td 6 ints, 7 yards per attempt Allen 6'5" 233 rocket arm last college year 56% 1812 yards 16 tds, 6 ints, 6.7 yards per attempt At least Hack played in a conference with some real competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, HessStation said: The guy is 6'5 235, a cannon and probably runs a 4.6. So probably. Will he also have a 55% compl. % and 15+ INT's a year in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 25 minutes ago, HessStation said: I sorta wish everyone would stop thinking they know what Allen is based on his completion % for two years. I get the concern as it would be my big, red flag too, but it's a little crazy how us people are already trying to bury him. Maybe he's a less desirable QB for you than others but I mean, to not want him at all on what's already a crap shoot on QBs just seems weird. It's a pretty solid rule. Along with number of starts, completion percentage weeds out a lot of non-hackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 26 minutes ago, HessStation said: I sorta wish everyone would stop thinking they know what Allen is based on his completion % for two years. I get the concern as it would be my big, red flag too, but it's a little crazy how us people are already trying to bury him. Maybe he's a less desirable QB for you than others but I mean, to not want him at all on what's already a crap shoot on QBs just seems weird. I'm sure Darnold fans wish everyone would stop thinking they know what Darnold is based on his interceptions for two years. And I'm sure Rosen fans wish everyone would stop thinking they know what Rosen is based on his injuries for two years. And I'm sure Mayfield fans wish everyone would stop thinking they know what Mayfield is based on his off field issues for two years. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 7 minutes ago, HessStation said: The guy is 6'5 235, a cannon and probably runs a 4.6. So probably. It's so weird when I don't even like a prospect necessarily but here I am. Some of you guys are nuts. Just stick to whether or not he'll be able to be consistently accurate enough. We are ALL starving for a QB.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, Warfish said: Will he also have a 55% compl. % and 15+ INT's a year in the NFL? who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, prime21 said: If Allen is sitting there at 6 and we did not get Cousins, then he has to be the pick. This maybe true!! All I can say is NO MORE Fitzpatricks or McCown's (No Knock) leading the Jets going forward.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: We are ALL starving for a QB.. Weird, joewilly seems to be the only poster who gets me in this thread. Be prepared losers. This guy might end up your QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 44 minutes ago, HessStation said: I sorta wish everyone would stop thinking they know what Allen is based on his completion % for two years. I get the concern as it would be my big, red flag too, but it's a little crazy how us people are already trying to bury him. Maybe he's a less desirable QB for you than others but I mean, to not want him at all on what's already a crap shoot on QBs just seems weird. But there are aspects of evaluating QB's that are NOT a crapshoot. Everyone in the universe but the Jets front office knew Christian Hackenberg would be a massive failure. Why? Because inaccuracy in college pretty much never "fixes itself." By d*cking around at the QB position with bad picks that have an extremely low likelihood of panning out, it just keeps delaying our chances to get a franchise QB, where we can "set and forget" for the next 10 years. Drafting Josh Allen, and the extremely high likelihood of it failing based on history, would lead to us putting all our eggs in his basket the next 2-3 years, THEN firing the GM and HC, THEN rinsing and repeating on another QB. Because that's how these things ALWAYS work. It's NOT a crapshoot if your GM has even a basic understanding of how these variables work. I'd rather wait another year or 2 to pick the RIGHT guy, personally, rather than rushing in to take a "consensus QB" just to take one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, HessStation said: Weird, joewilly seems to be the only poster who gets me in this thread. Be prepared losers. This guy might end up your QB No no I mean we are all QB starved........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lounap23 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Pointdexter said: I'm one of the very few that's taking a wait and see on Allen. So many ppl have already made up their mind on him, which is bananas imo. He made Wyoming a lot better than they were before he got there. He improved the team. That's more than you could ever say for Hackenberg so I don't fully get those lazy comparisons. I haven't made up my mind yet.. He's still the #3 QB I would want and maybe #4 if I could shake the Darnold reminds me of Sanchez with his terrible ball security and pitchforked him because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lounap23 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 39 minutes ago, Beerfish said: Hackenburg 6'4" 228 rocket arm last college year 54% 2525 yards 16 td 6 ints, 7 yards per attempt Allen 6'5" 233 rocket arm last college year 56% 1812 yards 16 tds, 6 ints, 6.7 yards per attempt At least Hack played in a conference with some real competition. Hack played with very talented WR's and OL... Allen did not.. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lounap23 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 50 minutes ago, kelly said: do u think he'll be able to do the same thing vs NFL db's ?.. I think he will have better talent around him. Meaning better protection and better Wr's that can get open consistently.. And I already know he can make throws under duress and he can throw into tight windows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lounap23 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 48 minutes ago, flgreen said: Yeah...........It was posted as a counterbalance to posters who tout a player by putting up a high light reel , and pretend that's what the guy played like game in, and game out. As i said earlier in the thread, before the season, when every one was pushing the "suck for Sam" line, I actually thought Allen was going to be the top QB in the draft. Actually watched quite a few of Wyoming games. I was wrong. When faced with good teams Allen folded. Did Allen fold.... I have seen many scouts talk about those games and said it was like watching College seniors playing against a pee wee league with an NFL QB.... He had no prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lounap23 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 And let me say this clearly. I am not here advocating for Allen to be our guy.... I am saying every ones assumption of him based on his comp % has no clue what they are talking about cause they have never watched him play. Nor have they assessed the play around him.. IN my opinion he is probably my 3rd option possibly 4th and to be honest there is something about Lamar jackson I love so he could be my fifth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckkieB Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 There are no sure things. We all get that. With the #6 pick, the Jets should be able to get a very good QB prospect, no matter who it ends up being. If they like one way more than the others, by all means, please trade up to get him. Otherwise, let's all just cross our fingers and toes and hope that whoever they pick pans out. First things first - actually draft a QB. lol. Then we can go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Hey, Allen could indeed be a good QB to a franchise guy but boy would you be sticking out your neck far to pick him a couple years after failing on hack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, nycdan said: You make it so easy....Do you know who this guy is? Year 1987 1988 1989 1990 Career Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate 1987 Southern Mississippi Ind QB 11 79 194 40.7 1264 6.5 5.0 15 13 107.6 1988 Southern Mississippi Ind QB 11 178 319 55.8 2271 7.1 7.4 16 5 129.0 1989 Southern Mississippi Ind QB 11 206 381 54.1 2588 6.8 6.3 14 10 118.0 1990 Southern Mississippi Ind QB 11 150 275 54.5 1572 5.7 5.2 7 6 106.6 Career Southern Mississippi 613 1169 52.4 7695 6.6 6.2 52 34 116.6 This was 1990. There isn't an example since the turn of the century. I've checked, numerous times. Nobody has done it. There are some stats where history is undefeated when it comes to a successful transition into the NFL for QB's since the turn of the century and quite a few of them apply to the prospects this year: Run more than completes passes - Lamar Jackson Less than 60% completion on their career - Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen Played in the Big 12 - Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, HessStation said: I sorta wish everyone would stop thinking they know what Allen is based on his completion % for two years. I get the concern as it would be my big, red flag too, but it's a little crazy how us people are already trying to bury him. Maybe he's a less desirable QB for you than others but I mean, to not want him at all on what's already a crap shoot on QBs just seems weird. What if I don’t believe it’s a crap shoot? Is it weird then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Just now, lounap23 said: Did Allen fold.... I have seen many scouts talk about those games and said it was like watching College seniors playing against a pee wee league with an NFL QB.... He had no prayer. Yes, Allen folded. With the exception of Iowa, and Oregon, most of Wyoming's opponents weren't much better then HS football. Gardner-Webb Texas State Utah St Colorado St Etc. Not to many NCAA powerhouses there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lounap23 Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said: There are no sure things. We all get that. With the #6 pick, the Jets should be able to get a very good QB prospect, no matter who it ends up being. If they like one way more than the others, by all means, please trade up to get him. Otherwise, let's all just cross our fingers and toes and hope that whoever they pick pans out. First things first - actually draft a QB. lol. Then we can go from there. NOW this I agree with 100%.... No matter if it's Allen, Darnold, Jackson, Rudolph, Mayfield, Rosen... Whoever just draft a QB...And lets finally get our Franchise guy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legler82 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, JiF said: This was 1990. There isn't an example since the turn of the century. I've checked, numerous times. Nobody has done it. There are some stats where history is undefeated when it comes to a successful transition into the NFL for QB's since the turn of the century and quite a few of them apply to the prospects this year: Run more than completes passes - Lamar Jackson Less than 60% completion on their career - Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen Played in the Big 12 - Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph Matthew Stafford completed 57.1% of his passes at Georgia. Does he count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, KRL said: I watched Allen in 5-6 games this year against teams similar to and better than Wyoming. There is no denying his textbook size & tools. He makes throws that make you drool and he has a frame that projects to be like Newton & Roethlisberger. But for someone who is supposed to be a top QB prospect he never lifted his team against mediocre competition and when he stepped up in class (Iowa & Oregon) he was overwhelmed. He could be successful on the pro level but who was the last QB whose accuracy and completion percentage improved going against the best in the world. I'm totally petrified of him as a prospect saw him play in person vs. Nebraska - was not impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, JiF said: This was 1990. There isn't an example since the turn of the century. I've checked, numerous times. Nobody has done it. There are some stats where history is undefeated when it comes to a successful transition into the NFL for QB's since the turn of the century and quite a few of them apply to the prospects this year: Run more than completes passes - Lamar Jackson Less than 60% completion on their career - Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen Played in the Big 12 - Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph There is some basis of evaluation for every stat. But, they should not be taken as gospel, and one should look for reasons for stats, not just the stat itself. And I understand the completion quotient and his conference. But, if I were to believe the completion percentage, and its predictor of success, would I not also then have to believe that those with the highest completion percentage, should then have the best chance to succeeding? And I know we know that is not the case. People that get hung up on or a few stats and do not use more are doomed to be wrong often and miss out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56mehl56 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, KRL said: Much respect for the research. You provided one example to my question But of the flipside does that mean that guys like Luke Falk are coveted because of his comp % in college. Its not just the completion % , there's a whole lot more that needs to be factored in. People are dismissing this guy solely on the fact he didn't have numbers , look at the team he had surrounding him and then ask the question what would Darnold, Rosen , Mayfield do on that same team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, peebag said: saw him play in person vs. Nebraska - was not impressed. I really only watched his Bowl game, and he looked impressive there. Problematic that he did play some good teasm, and his numbers were not huge. But, that does not tell an entire story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.