An argument for Macc, or any GM who is on equal ground with their HC

[Dcat]

2 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Just because your HC is 99% D oriented, doesn’t excuse Mac for being also. As GM he needs to know there is 2 sides of the ball. It shouldn’t be rocket science to know a Dcord HC is going to try to hussle you yo have put 90% of team focus on D. If Mac doesn’t realize that, or can’t stand up to Bowles about the need for offense, he should be fired first. 

In any normal business structure, this would be true.  But the Jets draft by committee (Woody said this, not me) meaning that there has to be consensus and for nearly a decade the record shows that the defensive-driven motives of the HC win.  Doesn't matter who the GM is.  Tanny, Idzik, Mac... no difference.  1st round  = defense.  Definitely head coach driven.  The Jets are an absurd organization.  

[tkiss24]

Yup, he did.  But it was not a 1st rounder.  No GM under the Johnson regime gets to pick his 1st round selection without the approval of the HC.  That's why after Sanchez (picked by Rex under the Tanny regime b/c Rex fell in love with him), every one of the next NINE 1st round picks has been defense.  But the GM gets his choice in the other rounds.  And so far Mac has sucked in those rounds. 
Sanchez, Wilson, Coles, Wilk, Pryor, Richardson, Leo, Lee, Adams.  Tell me that's not Head Coach dictated?  9 defensive 1st rounders in a row.  No GM with true authority would ever do that.  /end

Whiffing on second rounders is a problem. First Devin Smith then Hack and while Marcus maye looked good drafting a safety after taking Adams in the first round is in my opinion a wasted pick considering the holes on the roster.


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[HessStation]

9 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Macc and Bowles are essentially equals and both report to Chris Johnson. Macc has no say over who plays, and Bowles technically has no say in personnel decisions. The balance of power is in Bowles' favor. Macc has to select players who fit the scheme of the head coach, and Bowles does not have to play anyone who Macc selects. How can you truly judge a GM who essentially a bean counter? Does Macc select Adams and Maye if Bowles was an offense first type of coach?

I have my opinions on both Bowles and Maccagnan, but this thread is more about the chain of command and power structure. Insert any two names into this structure and my question remains the same. 

Good perspective/question I hadn't thought through before. It's all just so dysfunctional. Yay Jets.

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, Dcat said:

after reading the Bowles quote above, your statement is just wrong.  Apparently Bowles not only gave his blessing, but encouraged it.  And I am one who wants Mac gone. It is what it is.  In the world of Woody Johnson and bro, the HC and GM are equal in the power hierarchy.  I wish it weren't so, but that's the way it is in Florham Park.  We are stuck with it for now.  It's not changing anytime soon.

 

Time for blimps and billboards!

[Jimmy 2 Times]

8 hours ago, greenwave81 said:

Not totally true....from SI:  https://www.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/06/themmqb-christian-hackenberg-new-york-jets-quarterback-private-workout-nfl-draft-2016

Mired in a contract stalemate with Ryan Fitzpatrick, the Jets’ front office didn’t want the New York media to anoint Hackenberg as the franchise’s lifeline. On April 10, two weeks after the initial call, general manager Mike Maccagnan, head coach Todd Bowles, offensive coordinator Chan Gailey, quarterbacks coach Kevin Patullo, and two scouts drove to State College to conduct the workout at Penn State’s indoor football facility. The Jets delegation worked out the young quarterback for an hour, testing him on the aspects of the pro-style offense that weren’t a part of the Nittany Lions’ shotgun spread offense for the past two seasons...

 

As part of the evaluation process, Bowles wanted to hear Hackenberg explain his challenges with the coaching change, in order put to rest any concerns about his coachability. “I definitely needed to hear from him and hear what his thought process was and how he went through changing cultures and different coordinators in a system,” Bowles says. “He was forthright with everything, he understood that he has things he needs to work on, he acknowledged the coaching changes and he tried to do well in both systems. He admitted that he had some bad games but he also had some very good games, so I was very impressed with the way he presented himself.”

 

It’s not over yet.  Kid is going to play this year!

[JustInFudge]

I think it's pretty obvious, Todd Bowles is running this entire show. 

[dbatesman]

11 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Are we going to get into a pissing match? The thread is about the chain of command and structure. It wouldn't make a difference if Phil McKrackin or Rosey Palmer was the GM, and Dick Grab was the head coach.

Right. Chain of command. Oh and also we can't judge Maccagnan, and really the Hackenberg pick isn't that big a deal, and hey how bout that Richardson trade? You know, structure.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

14 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Right. Chain of command. Oh and also we can't judge Maccagnan, and really the Hackenberg pick isn't that big a deal, and hey how bout that Richardson trade? You know, structure.

Who said that the Hackenberg pick wasn't a big deal? Do you think that? I don't. It was an awful move. The Richardson trade was indeed a great trade. 

Once again, the thread was about structure and chain of command. Yeah, I spoke about two transactions that he made, one being awful, and one being really good. 

[Ex-Rex]

12 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Macc and Bowles are essentially equals and both report to Chris Johnson. Macc has no say over who plays, and Bowles technically has no say in personnel decisions. The balance of power is in Bowles' favor. Macc has to select players who fit the scheme of the head coach, and Bowles does not have to play anyone who Macc selects. How can you truly judge a GM who essentially a bean counter? Does Macc select Adams and Maye if Bowles was an offense first type of coach?

I have my opinions on both Bowles and Maccagnan, but this thread is more about the chain of command and power structure. Insert any two names into this structure and my question remains the same. 

You can't judge Mac until Bowles is gone because you are right, he has to draft players that Bowles will actually play. Bryce Petty would have NEVER seen the field this season without McCown's injury and Bowles said as much. This structure does not work and only an idiot like Woody Johnson would set something like this up. No wonder Belichick ran from the Jets job...the guy has vision.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Don't really understand the point here. The organizational chart is laughably stupid and was doomed to fail from the start. Doesnt absolve the fact that mac and bowles are both underqualified and lack clear traits needed To do the job. 

We gave them two year extensions for being the epitome of mediocrity. See you in 3-5 years when we field a compeitive roster again. 

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Who said that the Hackenberg pick wasn't a big deal? Do you think that? I don't.

 

11 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I'm not giving him a pass on his whiff, but every GM has made an awful pick. At what point are we going to let it go? 

Sorry, I’m bad at reading

[JustInFudge]

27 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Don't really understand the point here. The organizational chart is laughably stupid and was doomed to fail from the start. Doesnt absolve the fact that mac and bowles are both underqualified and lack clear traits needed To do the job. 

We gave them two year extensions for being the epitome of mediocrity. See you in 3-5 years when we field a compeitive roster again. 

They received an extension because the team was playing hard.  Paid professional athletes trying, was the criteria that was used while determining an extension for Mac and Bowles.  

Jets baby!!!!

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

It’s not over yet.  Kid is going to play this year!

Which CFL team will he land with?

[The Crusher]

13 hours ago, dbatesman said:

No it’s not. It’s yet another Maccagnan apologia dressed up as balanced, rational, pox-on-both-your-houses analysis.

 

13 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

No, it's not witchcraft, but it is a quality move by a GM. Getting anything for a player who is a free agent at the end of the season is a good move. Getting a 2nd round pick and a decent WR who is on a team friendly contract is a really good move. If we are going to harp on his misses, we should praise his hits. 

I can't argue about Bowles, and I don't care to. Out of him and Macc, I see more potential in Macc.

After 3 years we got the best windshield wipers money can buy but only a 1983 Yugo to put them on. Macc has one more chance to get the rest of the car before the race begins. Todd Bowles must drive whatever car he gets. 

[flgreen]

10 hours ago, Dcat said:

re: #3 Richardson

Actually, getting a 2nd round pick plus Kearse for a one-season rental (Sheldon is now a UFA) of an under-performing player who has a big mouth, clubhouse issues and is now one urine sample away from a full-year suspension is a damned good deal.  You're comparison is based on his draft status, which at the end of a rookie contract is no longer relevant, particularly when said player hasn't performed up to expectations, and has violated the league substance rules not to mention the 100+ MPH speeding with a child, a gun and pot in the car.  After 3 years, you know what you got and what he's worth.  Same for Wilk.  And Wilk had a rep for taking plays off from the very beginning and throughout his years with Rex.  Nothing new here.  Bowles couldn't fix it either.  That's on him for sure. 

But... Mac got the better of the Sheldon deal.  Has nothing to do with the untapped talent Sheldon has.  And Kearse is actually pretty good.

We'll probably find out how much influence Bowles has in player selection this off-season.   As you mentioned Richardson is a FA this season, and has said he wouldn't mind coming back to the Jets.  Bowels said when Richardson was traded that he and Sheldon were "soul mates" and would be connected long after their careers were over.

I'm not going to be stunned at all if Richardson is a Jet next year.

[68JET11]

12 hours ago, Dcat said:

after reading the Bowles quote above, your statement is just wrong.  Apparently Bowles not only gave his blessing, but encouraged it.  And I am one who wants Mac gone. It is what it is.  In the world of Woody Johnson and bro, the HC and GM are equal in the power hierarchy.  I wish it weren't so, but that's the way it is in Florham Park.  We are stuck with it for now.  It's not changing anytime soon.

This...  the reason all JETS fans, and for that matter Season Ticket Holders especially need to email, write letters, put up billboards whatever to get the Johnson's to understand this organization needs a PRESIDENT of Football Operations... Whatever it takes to make the Johnson's get out of their own way and let the team be run by a football guy. We need a Tom Coughlin type person in charge. I've emailed a few times, but until every JET fan does, it continues like you said. All JETS fans should hold a rally at the Meadowlands every home game with placards galore with that sentiment. He does attend home games and I've heard he walks the crowd. How could he ignore everyone with the same message....