Dropoff in Production Could Make Carpenter cap Casualty

[JetNation]

Before the start of the 2017 season, even entertaining the possibility of the Jets considering parting ways with left guard James Carpenter would have been laughable.  A free agent addition from the Seattle Seahawks, Carpenter played at a Pro-Bowl level over the course of his first two seasons in Green and White, but 2017 was a much different story.

Week in and week out there were massive struggles along the offensive line for Gang Green, and more often than not the struggles came right up the middle.  Carpenter, center Wesley Johnson and right guard Brian Winters were beaten regularly throughout the season.  This, after the trio played at a much higher level in 2016.

Johnson was never viewed as anything more than an average starter (if that) when the season started, and Winters was coming off a career year.  Unfortunately, Carpenter and Johnson regressed tremendously (though Carpenter had much farther to fall) and Winters, we would eventually learn, was playing with a torn abdominal muscle since week two.

The struggles up front led to the recent firing of offensive line coach Steve Marshall, but will it end at Marshall, or will Carpenter be next?

The lineman said himself after coming to the Jets that his previous struggles in Seattle were due largely in part to their zone blocking scheme, and his outstanding play in 2015 and 2016 gave his claims legitimacy.  With the Jets expected to elevate quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates to offensive coordinator, there may be more zone-heavy run schemes implemented.  Could that spell the end for Carpenter?

Due to make $6.8 million next season, the Jets could recoup $4.7 million of that if Carpenter were to be let go, according to overthecap.com.

 

 

Click here to read the full story...

[Sperm Edwards]

39 minutes ago, JetNation said:

Due to make $6.8 million next season, the Jets could recoup $4.7 million of that if Carpenter were to be let go, according to overthecap.com.

He makes $4.7m not $6.8m next year. That's why the Jets would recoup $4.7m not $6.8m.

I think they'll keep Carpenter, what with all the mulligans this team is handing out to those above him. Put his now-fatter ass on an exercise bike and he'll play like he did in '15 and '16. My only regret is that I can't say that right to his face right now, right after insulting everyone in his family. Then I'll see how tough he is. 

[Jetster]

18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He makes $4.7m not $6.8m next year. That's why the Jets would recoup $4.7m not $6.8m.

I think they'll keep Carpenter, what with all the mulligans this team is handing out to those above him. Put his now-fatter ass on an exercise bike and he'll play like he did in '15 and '16. My only regret is that I can't say that right to his face right now, right after insulting everyone in his family. Then I'll see how tough he is. 

4.7 is not a ton. Sign both Jensen & Norwell, draft Nelson, keep Carpenter as depth & let him go next year. If Macc keeps ignoring this Oline he needs to go bye bye too. 

[flgreen]

IMO only way this is considered is if Jets sign Cousins (IMO probable) and draft Nelson

[Dcat]

18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He makes $4.7m not $6.8m next year. That's why the Jets would recoup $4.7m not $6.8m.

I think they'll keep Carpenter, what with all the mulligans this team is handing out to those above him. Put his now-fatter ass on an exercise bike and he'll play like he did in '15 and '16. My only regret is that I can't say that right to his face right now, right after insulting everyone in his family. Then I'll see how tough he is. 

One of these days the Jets are going to draft a kid actually named Mulligan.  And it will be the most appropo pick ever.

[Dcat]

18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He makes $4.7m not $6.8m next year. That's why the Jets would recoup $4.7m not $6.8m.

I think they'll keep Carpenter, what with all the mulligans this team is handing out to those above him. Put his now-fatter ass on an exercise bike and he'll play like he did in '15 and '16. My only regret is that I can't say that right to his face right now, right after insulting everyone in his family. Then I'll see how tough he is. 

you are correct.  In year 2 of the overpriced 4 year contract, they converted a big chunk of that year's salary into bonus, adding $1.2 million to each of the next 3 years' cap hits.  That money was already paid and would be added to dead money if he's cut.

[Jetsplayer21]

19 hours ago, JetNation said:

Before the start of the 2017 season, even entertaining the possibility of the Jets considering parting ways with left guard James Carpenter would have been laughable.  A free agent addition from the Seattle Seahawks, Carpenter played at a Pro-Bowl level over the course of his first two seasons in Green and White, but 2017 was a much different story.

Week in and week out there were massive struggles along the offensive line for Gang Green, and more often than not the struggles came right up the middle.  Carpenter, center Wesley Johnson and right guard Brian Winters were beaten regularly throughout the season.  This, after the trio played at a much higher level in 2016.

Johnson was never viewed as anything more than an average starter (if that) when the season started, and Winters was coming off a career year.  Unfortunately, Carpenter and Johnson regressed tremendously (though Carpenter had much farther to fall) and Winters, we would eventually learn, was playing with a torn abdominal muscle since week two.

The struggles up front led to the recent firing of offensive line coach Steve Marshall, but will it end at Marshall, or will Carpenter be next?

The lineman said himself after coming to the Jets that his previous struggles in Seattle were due largely in part to their zone blocking scheme, and his outstanding play in 2015 and 2016 gave his claims legitimacy.  With the Jets expected to elevate quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates to offensive coordinator, there may be more zone-heavy run schemes implemented.  Could that spell the end for Carpenter?

Due to make $6.8 million next season, the Jets could recoup $4.7 million of that if Carpenter were to be let go, according to overthecap.com.

 

 

Click here to read the full story...

Mac should be able to make him accept pay cut. He would not be signed to start anywhere if he was to be cut.

We need to draft 2 linemen with our 1st 3 picks

[Lith]

At some point, we are going to have to stop cutting guys before their contracts run out so we can begin to accumulate some comp picks.  We are probably going to have about $100MM in cap space, how important is that extra $4.8MM. 

In addition to Carp, we should let Powell and Kearse play out their contracts.  They all can still contribute and given the current makeup of the roster, they are among the best we got at their positions (sad as that may be) and maybe we can get a couple of extra picks down the road.

[nyjbuddy]

He needs to have a good center next to him.  Mangold getting let go hurt the line more than they thought.  They should have Carpenter stick around due to his experience with zone blocking from his days in Seattle.  

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

At some point, we are going to have to stop cutting guys before their contracts run out so we can begin to accumulate some comp picks.  We are probably going to have about $100MM in cap space, how important is that extra $4.8MM. 

In addition to Carp, we should let Powell and Kearse play out their contracts.  They all can still contribute and given the current makeup of the roster, they are among the best we got at their positions (sad as that may be) and maybe we can get a couple of extra picks down the road.

Doesn't that depend on the money in their next contract? Would Kearse be given a contract big enough for a comp pick?   And if so, it certainly wouldn't be the kind contract to yield anything more than a 6th or 7th. Maybe a wee bit higher for Powell.

[HessStation]

He's an easy cut that doesn't seem to fit the new scheme.

[Lith]

21 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Doesn't that depend on the money in their next contract? Would Kearse be given a contract big enough for a comp pick?   And if so, it certainly wouldn't be the kind contract to yield anything more than a 6th or 7th. Maybe a wee bit higher for Powell.

Yes.  It does depend on their next contract.  Actually, I think Kearse would be higher value than Powell, if he can put up another 60+ receptions 800+ yard season.  I think Carp is likely to get a starter contract at his next stop.  When the cap space does not mean much, I would rather see us position ourselves for an extra pick or two down the road -- even if they are likely to be late round picks.

 

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, nyjbuddy said:

He needs to have a good center next to him.  Mangold getting let go hurt the line more than they thought.  They should have Carpenter stick around due to his experience with zone blocking from his days in Seattle.  

the article says he had trouble with zone blocking so maybe that's not a good reason to keep him.  but not having a decent center certainly affected his play.  and, of course, things brings up another question.  was the problem carpenter or johnson?  if johnson can bring carpenter's play down then the reverse is true too.

[rangerous]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Doesn't that depend on the money in their next contract? Would Kearse be given a contract big enough for a comp pick?   And if so, it certainly wouldn't be the kind contract to yield anything more than a 6th or 7th. Maybe a wee bit higher for Powell.

kearse would be paid 5M in 2018 and powell 4M.  after that they both become ufa's in 2019.  they are both productive players and not really being paid out of line from where they are worth so letting them play out their contracts may be a good thing.  also, kearse is young enough so that he will want to score another big money contract.  he'll play hard this season.

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, rangerous said:

kearse would be paid 5M in 2018 and powell 4M.  after that they both become ufa's in 2019.  they are both productive players and not really being paid out of line from where they are worth so letting them play out their contracts may be a good thing.  also, kearse is young enough so that he will want to score another big money contract.  he'll play hard this season.

I agree.  I actually want to retain both because they both can be productive. I was impressed by Kearse as a Jet. Was better here than with Seattle. I was just questioning whether or not he would yield a comp pick of significant value if we lose him in free agency after his contract.

[SenorGato]

OL I would rather replace:

Johnson

Iljalana

Dozier

Harrison

Qvale

 

[HighPitch]

we need to pay a lot of attention to ol guys this draft. Qb, ol, ol with the 3

[Tony MaC]

6 hours ago, Lith said:

At some point, we are going to have to stop cutting guys before their contracts run out so we can begin to accumulate some comp picks.  We are probably going to have about $100MM in cap space, how important is that extra $4.8MM. 

In addition to Carp, we should let Powell and Kearse play out their contracts.  They all can still contribute and given the current makeup of the roster, they are among the best we got at their positions (sad as that may be) and maybe we can get a couple of extra picks down the road.

Agreed. Unless they have an immediate upgrade for those guys/a player who's commanding just a little too much to warrant keeping them all just let them work through their contracts. 

 

[Jetsplayer21]

4 hours ago, HighPitch said:

we need to pay a lot of attention to ol guys this draft. Qb, ol, ol with the 3

And then Mac suddenly goes missing. Todd Bowles is “person of interest “ By police  ha

[Hitman Harris]

12 hours ago, Dcat said:

One of these days the Jets are going to draft a kid actually named Mulligan.  And it will be the most appropo pick ever.

How's about Matthew Mulligan??  

 

we could prob still bring him back on short money... pretty sure we still need a TE... still... 

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Jetster said:

4.7 is not a ton. Sign both Jensen & Norwell, draft Nelson, keep Carpenter as depth & let him go next year. If Macc keeps ignoring this Oline he needs to go bye bye too. 

Lol

[pdxgreen]

The entire OL needs a huge make over.  We need tomake a couple of high round selections.

[JetFaninMI]

The OL needs fixing. Concentrate on this in FA AND the draft. Build it up using that as a guideline and let them develop and grow together. This is how its done. If the Jets can somehow score a QB in the draft without moving up I would use one of the second rounders to trade back into the late 1st and grab one of the top OL. My focus would be on the C position. Can it be done? Maybe. Can Macc do it? I'm not so sure.

[Mecca]

22 hours ago, Lith said:

At some point, we are going to have to stop cutting guys before their contracts run out so we can begin to accumulate some comp picks.  We are probably going to have about $100MM in cap space, how important is that extra $4.8MM. 

In addition to Carp, we should let Powell and Kearse play out their contracts.  They all can still contribute and given the current makeup of the roster, they are among the best we got at their positions (sad as that may be) and maybe we can get a couple of extra picks down the road.

Powell is 30 and his contract is fully un-guaranteed. McKinnon is younger, better and can be had at similar price.

[varjet]

If the Jets sign Cousins they are competing in 2018.  Given the state of the OL talent and depth, which is all on Mac, Carp may still be their best player.  He will also be motivated given its the last year of his contract-its funny how things work that way.  Carp’s play was also dragged down by the Center.

If the Jets draft a QB they are continuing to rebuild.  No sense carrying an overpaid man to man blocker in a zone year on the last year of his contract.  They should sign or draft someone to have for 4 years.  

[Larz]

I don't think saving that amount of money justifies cutting him

I would try to rebuild him 

[Hitman Harris]

2 hours ago, Mecca said:

Powell is 30 and his contract is fully un-guaranteed. McKinnon is younger, better and can be had at similar price.

Jets should just cut Powell right now so he can go "win" a Cheaterbowl with New England nest weekend, which I will not be watching btw 

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, Hitman Harris said:

Jets should just cut Powell right now so he can go "win" a Cheaterbowl with New England nest weekend, which I will not be watching btw 

I'll be watching in Western Mass at my son-in-laws house, ugh. Party full of Pats fans. I would just love to hear the silence of an Eagles win. Please lord have pity on my soul.

[Hitman Harris]

16 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I'll be watching in Western Mass at my son-in-laws house, ugh. Party full of Pats fans. I would just love to hear the silence of an Eagles win. Please lord have pity on my soul.

I enjoyed that silence at a party in boston after ONE GIANT LOSS. 

They were crying and in shock all over the streets. We went in the bars and whooped it up. Got kicked out within seconds of walking in every one. It was great. lol

[Philc1]

Cut Carpenter and draft Will Hernandez in round 2

[Jetster]

16 minutes ago, Hitman Harris said:

I enjoyed that silence at a party in boston after ONE GIANT LOSS. 

They were crying and in shock all over the streets. We went in the bars and whooped it up. Got kicked out within seconds of walking in every one. It was great. lol

Lol. I was at a Super Bowl party in NH when Plaxico realed in that winner from Eli, the party hosts son screamed & ran up the stairs crying, these young Pats fans only knew winning, lol. A sort of Grinch smirk came over me, but I knew I had to play it cool as the entire room was cloaked in silence, and filled with Pats fans mulling around in bewilderment. It was the 2nd best day of my life being a Jet fan. Super Bowl lll & that Pats loss to keep them from going undefeated. If they lose Sunday, my wife will want me out of there quick. My son in law is a horrible Pats fan, screams at every play, yells at the refs like they can here him, if they lose the 1st thing he'll do is look at me & I'll have that same smirk on my face. At that point they'll be nothing that needs to be said. I'm also hoping Blount scores 3 bruising TDs carrying Patriots on his back into the endzone for good measure.

[Hitman Harris]

I pray this happens for you. And for the country. 

Please youtube the results if anything but a Refs victory 

[k-met57]

Carpenter is far from being "the problem", it didn't help playing between nobody and nobody all year. We need to build the line, not dismantle it to nothing.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 1/27/2018 at 11:04 AM, Dcat said:

you are correct.  In year 2 of the overpriced 4 year contract, they converted a big chunk of that year's salary into bonus, adding $1.2 million to each of the next 3 years' cap hits.  That money was already paid and would be added to dead money if he's cut.

Yep; an easier way of looking at it cap-wise is that money's dead whether he's here or not. The Carpenter contract wasn't overpriced, though, which is a good amount of the reason why (until this past season) it was Macc's best addition overall since he got here; just 2 years later he felt he had to pony up 50% more per annum and 100% more that was fully guaranteed to extend freaking Brian Winters. 

What would be ideal (if the draft lays out that way) is draft his/Winter's 2019 replacement in 2018. There's no immediate decision needed on Carpenter, and if someone's drafted who looks surprisingly good, it could make Carpenter expendable a year early.

That's not likely to happen, though, because the team's probably going to head into the draft with only an "in name only" replacement for Johnson at center, meaning they're going to take a center in the first 2 rounds (but not at #6 overall), and coming off a second straight 5-win season he's not going to put 2 rookies next to each other in the middle of the OL. Therefore if Carpenter's replacement isn't found in March via FA, they'll leave the position unaddressed in the draft (or will only take one in rounds 6-7, where statistically that player's far more likely to be cut by year 2 than starter by year 2). Then we'll go into the 2019 offseason with an outright hole at LG, unless he extends/re-signs Carpenter after the '18 season ends. 

We'll see who is actually expected to be available once FA actually begins before making more concrete predictions. Also if the Jets do happen to sign Cousins that'll change the draft (duh). 

[faba]

Well the problem with this is you will create another hole in the line that needs help to fortify to begin with.