Cousins vs Stafford

[choon328]

 Stafford signed a 6 yr $135 million contract with $92 million guaranteed prior to the 2017 season. Cousins deal should come in around $145 with $100 million guaranteed. This contact should be easy to negotiate based on their similarities. I'd sign up for that. I'm tired of young QB's coming here and failing. Get a top 10 QB in here, build the offense around him this off-season and hope the young defense continues to grow.

[rangerous]

14 minutes ago, choon328 said:

 Stafford signed a 6 yr $135 million contract with $92 million guaranteed prior to the 2017 season. Cousins deal should come in around $145 with $100 million guaranteed. This contact should be easy to negotiate based on their similarities. I'd sign up for that. I'm tired of young QB's coming here and failing. Get a top 10 QB in here, build the offense around him this off-season and hope the young defense continues to grow.

it all makes sense and the other part is they will still have the money and the draft picks to fill in a lot of the holes.  the team is young and they can easily pay cousins and still field a decent team because they're not paying the other players that much.  once leo comes off his rookie contract things will start heating up but that's two seasons away.

[Charlie Brown]

And yet Stafford has had a way superior supporting cast and most folks out here look at him as a "Franchise" QB!!!

[JetFaninMI]

4 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

And yet Stafford has had a way superior supporting cast and most folks out here look at him as a "Franchise" QB!!!

Yes he has AND STILL HASN'T GOTTEN IT DONE. This is a prime example of having to pay a guy top dollars who beyond stats has not done anything. Don't try and explain it away with trivial nonsense or excuses either. I've watched this guy since he came into the league and he has talent but is missing that one thing. The thing that separates the good from the great. Call it what you will but Stafford doesn't have it. The Lions had to pay him to be sure but if he ever wins a Super Bowl it will surprise the sh*t out of me. Cousins is the same way. Ton of stats, looks good on the field but when its all on the line he comes up short. Imagine that under the intense media scrutiny that is NY. Recipe for disaster.

[SenorGato]

I was just looking at Stafford FBReference’s page and damn...I’m not a W-L guy but from ‘09-‘15 went 42-51 with an 0-3 playoff record. 42-54 in 96 games! With Suh and Johnson on most of those rosters!

Anyway between the two Cousins completes more passes and for more yards on average. I’ll take that passer moving forward. 

[joewilly12]

Just because a team pays outlandish money for a QB doesn't mean it makes them an instant  winner. 

[SenorGato]

Fun fact: Matt Stafford has posted a below league average completion% in 5 out of 8 seasons (2 of those partial). This includes 2 full seasons below 60% and 2 partial seasons below 60%. 

I would also worry about general wear and tear from being nearly a decade starter already. 

[Jetster]

Footballs a team game. Last year our starting RB was a worn out horse who should have been sent to the glue factory (Forte). Our other RB (Powell) is off the juice and doesn't have the burst he had in 2015. Draft a stud RB like Michel or Jones, sign McKinnon, dump Forte & Powell. Jones-McKinnon-McGuire, you just upgraded your speed by 10 mph.

 

[Charlie Brown]

27 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

Yes he has AND STILL HASN'T GOTTEN IT DONE. This is a prime example of having to pay a guy top dollars who beyond stats has not done anything. Don't try and explain it away with trivial nonsense or excuses either. I've watched this guy since he came into the league and he has talent but is missing that one thing. The thing that separates the good from the great. Call it what you will but Stafford doesn't have it. The Lions had to pay him to be sure but if he ever wins a Super Bowl it will surprise the sh*t out of me. Cousins is the same way. Ton of stats, looks good on the field but when its all on the line he comes up short. Imagine that under the intense media scrutiny that is NY. Recipe for disaster.

If you can't see that Cousins has gotten the same results as Stafford despite having a terrible supporting cast I don't know what to tell you.  

The issue isn't look Stafford can't get it done despite his stats, but the fact that Cousins stats are Great despite having nothing to work with,.......

IMO the two QBs situations couldn't be more dissimilar.

[SenorGato]

Redskins v Lions strength of schedule ‘15-‘17 per FO:

3rd and 12th hardest

3rd and 18th

25th and 11th

 

[CanadienJetsFan]

In my opinion,  both Cousins and Stafford aren't worth that kind of money. You cannot build a good team when you're paying your QB 30 million....especially when they're not difference makers. The Only QB worth 30 million in this year's free agent class is Drew Brees but he ain't leaving nola.

[Jetster]

22 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

In my opinion,  both Cousins and Stafford aren't worth that kind of money. You cannot build a good team when you're paying your QB 30 million....especially when they're not difference makers. The Only QB worth 30 million in this year's free agent class is Drew Brees but he ain't leaving nola.

So you draft a QB, and you hit on him, but you don't get the best out of him until year 4. Guess what? He's gotta be resigned, but the franchise tag is now 34 million. 

Just do it & sign Cousins if you can. You'll get 5-6 years of above average QB play & hopefully a few chances in the tournament as Bill Parcells like to say. I want to see the Jets in the tournament, that's all I ask.

[JetFaninMI]

1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

If you can't see that Cousins has gotten the same results as Stafford despite having a terrible supporting cast I don't know what to tell you.  

The issue isn't look Stafford can't get it done despite his stats, but the fact that Cousins stats are Great despite having nothing to work with,.......

IMO the two QBs situations couldn't be more dissimilar.

I'm not even remotely saying that the issues are the same. I'm saying their circumstances are. However they got there these two guys are remarkably similar in terms of record, numbers, and career situation. The Lions chose to give their guy the extension. The Skins did not. There is a reason for that and agree with them or not they felt Cousins wasn't worth it. 

[legler82]

2 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

And yet Stafford has had a way superior supporting cast and most folks out here look at him as a "Franchise" QB!!!

This comparison is where stats are for losers.  Stafford is better no matter what the numbers say because simply put there are throws he can make with his arm talent that very few can.

[Charlie Brown]

2 minutes ago, legler82 said:

This comparison is where stats are for losers.  Stafford is better no matter what the numbers say because simply put there are throws he can make with his arm talent that very few can.

Cause Stafford can throw a pretty ball doesn't make him a better QB than Cousins. 

If that was the case JaMarcus Trenell Russell  (remember him) would be the greatest QB of all time, cause he could make throws no one in NFL history could make....

[Patriot Killa]

Cousins is a better QB if we are judging by talent and results, let’s be honest with ourselves. The proof is there. The contract numbers warrant Kirk Cousins his pay day...

[CanadienJetsFan]

8 hours ago, Jetster said:

So you draft a QB, and you hit on him, but you don't get the best out of him until year 4. Guess what? He's gotta be resigned, but the franchise tag is now 34 million. 

Just do it & sign Cousins if you can. You'll get 5-6 years of above average QB play & hopefully a few chances in the tournament as Bill Parcells like to say. I want to see the Jets in the tournament, that's all I ask.

Good point but the reality simply is that is still years away from being any good to be considered tournament ready.

[JetFaninMI]

2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Cousins is a better QB if we are judging by talent and results, let’s be honest with ourselves. The proof is there. The contract numbers warrant Kirk Cousins his pay day...

I have to disagree with you on this one. Your position is based on personnel correct? You can have the best personnel in the league but if  the guy throwing the ball can't get it there it means nothing. Stafford has one hell of an arm and can throw it. So does Cousins. Both are talented guys with similar circumstances. To say one is better than the other based on the numbers when they are so similar is reaching a little I think. Cousins will get paid no doubt and it will be the highest contract for a QB yet. Does he deserve it? The Redskins didn't think so. The Lions thought Stafford was. I think it comes down to value to the team and by that I mean how that player is viewed from the top on down to the guys on the field. The Redskins didn't value Cousins as much as the Lions valued Stafford. Was it the right decision? We will find out. Personally I think any team letting a QB go with Cousins ability raises the question why? Maybe it was fallout from the whole RGIII thing. Maybe they think Cousins isn't the guy going forward. Maybe they are just plain stupid. We probably will never know. The thing is do you want to be the team to take 100+ mill it cost to find out?

 

[Patriot Killa]

8 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

I have to disagree with you on this one. Your position is based on personnel correct? You can have the best personnel in the league but if  the guy throwing the ball can't get it there it means nothing. Stafford has one hell of an arm and can throw it. So does Cousins. Both are talented guys with similar circumstances. To say one is better than the other based on the numbers when they are so similar is reaching a little I think. Cousins will get paid no doubt and it will be the highest contract for a QB yet. Does he deserve it? The Redskins didn't think so. The Lions thought Stafford was. I think it comes down to value to the team and by that I mean how that player is viewed from the top on down to the guys on the field. The Redskins didn't value Cousins as much as the Lions valued Stafford. Was it the right decision? We will find out. Personally I think any team letting a QB go with Cousins ability raises the question why? Maybe it was fallout from the whole RGIII thing. Maybe they think Cousins isn't the guy going forward. Maybe they are just plain stupid. We probably will never know. The thing is do you want to be the team to take 100+ mill it cost to find out?

 

Agree with just about everything you said, except the notion that he can’t get a team there. I think he has shown that comeback ability in flashes and with the right personnel, I think it will be less spotty as it should for any QB...but my honest opinion on the redskins situation is a mixture of bad blood through drug out negotiations and the fact Washington stumbled upon a VERY good QB and the heads at the top of the organization got greedy looking for something better..when in reality there are only very few names that are better right now. 

The bolded..i’d say YES. We have the money to do it, we have all the reasons in the world to do it. I read something KRL said and it really resonated with me. He said “we can’t complain about needing above average QB play for years and then when the opportunity presents itself so conviently..we get picky.” 

I want a young promising prospect as well, trust me. I don’t want to have zero plan for after Cousins is done with football. Give me Kyle Lauletta and let’s get this thing going. That’s what I’m hoping for.

[bla bla bla]

3 minutes ago, JetFaninMI said:

I have to disagree with you on this one. Your position is based on personnel correct? You can have the best personnel in the league but if  the guy throwing the ball can't get it there it means nothing. Stafford has one hell of an arm and can throw it. So does Cousins. Both are talented guys with similar circumstances. To say one is better than the other based on the numbers when they are so similar is reaching a little I think. Cousins will get paid no doubt and it will be the highest contract for a QB yet. Does he deserve it? The Redskins didn't think so. The Lions thought Stafford was. I think it comes down to value to the team and by that I mean how that player is viewed from the top on down to the guys on the field. The Redskins didn't value Cousins as much as the Lions valued Stafford. Was it the right decision? We will find out. Personally I think any team letting a QB go with Cousins ability raises the question why? Maybe it was fallout from the whole RGIII thing. Maybe they think Cousins isn't the guy going forward. Maybe they are just plain stupid. We probably will never know. The thing is do you want to be the team to take 100+ mill it cost to find out?

See I think there was more to the Redskins situation than them believing Kirk was not worth the money. I don't think Kirk wanted to be back because Allen fired McCloughan and that is why negotiations fell through. This article is from last March, I think it shows that Kirk felt like he was held hostage by the Skins.

Cousins wants to be traded

I think statement of "I want to be wanted" runs deeper than the money. I think Allen never wanted to believe in him and instead put all his energy into RG3. They fired both the Coach and GM who thought Cousins was the guy, I think that is more where the issue lies.

[BCJet]

Well, what about Matt Ryan

6	Matt Ryan, QB	ATL	342	529	64.7	4,095	7.74	88	20	12	24	91.4	256
7	Kirk Cousins, QB	WSH	347	540	64.3	4,093	7.58	74	27	13	41	93.9	256

In my opinion Ryan is the best comparison for Cousins because neither has elite arm strength.  What Ryan had to get him to the SB was the combination of a coordinator who designed an offense around his strengths - accuracy, understanding the defense (motion, etc), roll outs, and playaction and Ryan maturing (and this is a essentially a quote from him) as a QB to where he started "throwing to where the player should be before hes open, rather then waiting until he is open."  Now I know everyone will say thats what a good QB is supposed to do, and youre right, but my point is it isnt easy and it takes YEARS to be able to trust your playbook and supporting cast and just let it rip sometimes.  Steve Young said a very similar thing, that being able to trust that where to throw before the play is there, was the turning point in his career. 

Ryan had his breakout year at 31 years old, and cousins, IMO, should take this absolute slap in the face from the Redskins and push his game to the next level.  I think that Bates is the type of coordinator that he will excel under, as shown by his earlier years in Wash, and he is likely entering his best years as a QB.

Now we obviously dont have Julio Jones, but we have the $$$ to build an Oline, and the draft picks to find a WR/RB to surround him with enough talent to be successful.  

 

[Jetster]

3 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Good point but the reality simply is that is still years away from being any good to be considered tournament ready.

That's BS! The AFC stinks. Sign a Center, Guard, CB, WR. Draft BPA @ 6 hopefully pass rusher, stud RB in the 2nd. With Cousins u have as good of chance as any.

[ScarletKnight89]

I'm all for bringing Cousins in at this point. This is a guy who has already proven he can play in the league, there's no question that he is a good QB, and he's not a stopgap QB either. He's not holding the fort for a young draft pick or just trying to get us thru a season or two. He'll be here long term. I'd say he's a top 10 QB. Probably 9 or 10 but still damn good. If the Jets can add him, and build a team around him (O-Line, a playmaker or two) I see no reason why we can't be a consistent winner with him. He may be even better than he's shown in Washington as well as he had a lot of changes that took place around him on offense.

 

[Mecca]

18 hours ago, choon328 said:

 Stafford signed a 6 yr $135 million contract with $92 million guaranteed prior to the 2017 season. Cousins deal should come in around $145 with $100 million guaranteed. This contact should be easy to negotiate based on their similarities. I'd sign up for that. I'm tired of young QB's coming here and failing. Get a top 10 QB in here, build the offense around him this off-season and hope the young defense continues to grow.

Naah, Stafford wasn't an unrestricted FA with multiple suitors. He'l easily make more.

[RichardTodd27]

5 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

Good point but the reality simply is that is still years away from being any good to be considered tournament ready.

This statement is no longer true in today's NFL. Teams going from worst to first in one season is becoming the norm (see Rams, Jax, etc...)

Cousins could put us in the same boat.

[Obrien2Toon]

13 hours ago, legler82 said:

This comparison is where stats are for losers.  Stafford is better no matter what the numbers say because simply put there are throws he can make with his arm talent that very few can.

I agree that on talent, Stafford is ways ahead of Cousins

But Stafford always gave me that Jeff George feel.

Where as Cousins to me seems to be one of those guys that puts in all the preparation and then some.  And could be a winner

[peebag]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

That's BS! The AFC stinks. Sign a Center, Guard, CB, WR. Draft BPA @ 6 hopefully pass rusher, stud RB in the 2nd. With Cousins u have as good of chance as any.

And what do we do about CBs, DL, OLB?

[Warfish]

19 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

This statement is no longer true in today's NFL. Teams going from worst to first in one season is becoming the norm (see Rams, Jax, etc...)

Cousins could put us in the same boat.

How many times did he win first place for the Skins?

Oh right, this time it'll be TOTALLY different.

[IndianaJet]

Sweet...so what you're telling me is that we should pay tons of money to a guy who is just like another overpaid, woefully under performing QB.  That doesn't really excite me.

If Cousins were a penis, he'd a be a slim 5.25....

[JiFtheOracle]

8 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Cousins is a better QB if we are judging by talent and results, let’s be honest with ourselves. The proof is there. The contract numbers warrant Kirk Cousins his pay day...

Why is Cousin the better QB?  Homey just showed you the stats.  Their literally identical.

Stafford was a former #1 overall pick and has a cannon.  Cousins a 4th.  I'm going to disagree with you here. 

[nyjbuddy]

15 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

In my opinion,  both Cousins and Stafford aren't worth that kind of money. You cannot build a good team when you're paying your QB 30 million....especially when they're not difference makers. The Only QB worth 30 million in this year's free agent class is Drew Brees but he ain't leaving nola.

Agreed.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/08/nfl-matthew-stafford-detroit-lions-contract-salary-cap

"The Lions had no other choice. They had to pay Matthew Stafford. They had to give him the biggest contract in NFL history. That’s just the quarterback market. What else were they gonna do?

That’s the line of thinking that many have used to justify what everyone agrees is an overpay for an inconsistent quarterback who, at his best, is a fringe top-10 player at his position. But there’s a dearth of evidence suggesting that participating in the league’s quarterback market is the correct strategy."

"History suggests Stafford’s deal has essentially killed any chance Detroit has of winning a Super Bowl over the next five years. Only one team has EVER won a Super Bowl while paying its quarterback more than 14% of its cap space. That was the 49ers in 1994, which also happened to be the first year after the salary cap was enforced. Manning was the next closest. He took up just under 14% of Denver’s cap in 2015."

https://wtop.com/nfl/2017/09/super-bowl-champions-spend-money/slide/1/

http://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/financially-assessing-the-2017-nfl-playoff-teams-668/

• These 12 playoff teams have an average of 9.8% allocated to starting + backup quarterbacks.

http://www.spotrac.com/research/nfl/how-the-final-four-nfl-teams-are-built-financially-673/

TEAM	QB	RB	WR	TE	OL	DL	LB	DB
Jacksonville Jaguars	$6.57	$6.55	$9.66	$4.79	$20.64	$30.82	$9.62	$25.08
Minnesota Vikings	$1.91	$3.79	$9.73	$7.37	$16.87	$18.79	$6.08	$24.28
New England Patriots	$14	$4.64	$8.75	$11.44	$15.78	$5.60	$3.41	$29.61
Philadelphia Eagles	$1.60	$1.58	$18.65	$7.02	$24.64	$23.27	$11.72	$12.04

 

[legler82]

1 hour ago, Obrien2Toon said:

I agree that on talent, Stafford is ways ahead of Cousins

But Stafford always gave me that Jeff George feel.

Where as Cousins to me seems to be one of those guys that puts in all the preparation and then some.  And could be a winner

Their numbers are similar and neither have won anything; the talent is what separates them.

[RichardTodd27]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

How many times did he win first place for the Skins?

Oh right, this time it'll be TOTALLY different.

Just once (2015). And over the past 3 years, I don't recall Cousins having any Pro-Bowl weapons around him.

Statistically, we're talking about a top 7 QB over the past three years. How a quality QB like Cousins is available, is beyond me.

[Skeet Ulrich]

6 minutes ago, RichardTodd27 said:

Just once (2015). And over the past 3 years, I don't recall Cousins having any Pro-Bowl weapons around him.

Statistically, we're talking about a top 7 QB over the past three years. How a quality QB like Cousins is available, is beyond me.

The team that drafted him clearly didn't think he was worth what he'd get on the open market. Considering they traded for and gave about 70M guaranteed to Alex Smith two seconds after trading for him when they wouldn't budge on giving Cousins a LTE for years kinda plays to the notion that they didn't think Cousins was anything great.

[CanadienJetsFan]

4 hours ago, Jetster said:

That's BS! The AFC stinks. Sign a Center, Guard, CB, WR. Draft BPA @ 6 hopefully pass rusher, stud RB in the 2nd. With Cousins u have as good of chance as any.

You have a chance to do what? Get in as a wildcard and then get your ass served to you by one of the big boys? You actually believe that we could beat the Patriots or the Jaguars or the Chiefs or the Broncos or the Raiders?

We're years away from being a true perennial contender.