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Patsferential treatment


greenwichjetfan
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18 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

Stepping aside and looking at this objectively, this whole claim raises some interesting questions. In all sports there are always questionable calls for no other reason than referring/umpiring is hard, really hard. The action is faster than the human eye oft times. To tear apart calls on film and after the fact is unfair. Just ask Armando Galaragga and Jim Joyce.

So let's assume that the Patriots are somehow favored by the league to the point that it creates victories for them. There are only a few reasons why this would be:

  1. It is like wrestling and roller derby and the sport is not much more than a phony spectacle designed for TV ratings, ticket sales and merchandise marketing. Perhaps this is what everyone is claiming, in which case, why is it a team in New England and not a major market?  
  2. Someone pays someone else a whole lot of money and is able to somehow keep it quiet over period of years. Who gets paid? the refs? Goodell? Not sure how to practically make this work.
  3. A nefarious fellow visits the right parties with Luca Brasi and "convinces" people to take action. In this day and age?

There is a rule of life and that rule is, when looking for the cause and effect of questionable activity, follow the money

So I am not criticizing or acting the role of contrarian but I am legitimately asking if there is any truth to this, if you were able to follow the money, where does it lead?

 

Kraft felt the league, with then Commish Tagliabue, helped Parcells screw the Pats and come to the Jets.

Kraft was the #1 advocate of Goodell as new Commish. Pats have been caught cheating several times. Owners across the league question the Kraft/Goodell union. Deflate gate was trumped into a spectacle to create perceived rift between Kraft/Goodell. Both men seen socially together throughout deflate gate. Pats win SB anyway, in impossible circumstances, with ref assist.

Goodell is re-upped as Commish, despite falling ratings. Pats looked like they weren’t going to get home field in playoffs in final quarter of the season. Several straight games feature Pats winning with red assists in form of PI calls and taking obvious TDS away from opponents. Ensuring them home field and a red carpet ride  to SB.

Money = Goodell indebted to Kraft

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11 hours ago, nyjunc said:

Answering You.... 

Here is the link to the case.  

http://thefixisin.net/resources/precendential+opinion.pdf

In the case the NFL's attorneys argued that the fan simply "purchased a ticket which gives him a contractual right to a seat in a stadium to watch an NFL game between the Patriots and Jets, and this right was honored." More, Senior Judge Robert E. Cowen agreed stating that a ticket to a game only provides you access to the stadium and nothing more. The fan entered the stadium, witnessed an NFL game, therefore he did not suffer any damages to legally protected right or interest. The fan's lawyer, Bruce Afran disagreed and argued that the NFL committed consumer fraud saying "This seems to suggest that no matter how much ticker holders pay, they can be frauded by NFL teams which puts the NFL on the same level as professional wrestling".

Afran is correct in his judgement based on the interpretation of game fixing laws. A team can't fix their own games for gambling purposes, nor can they fix an intellectual contest (a ruling based n the Quiz Show scandal of the 1950s) But judges ruled that fixing a game for entertainment purposes was completely LEGAL NFL Attorney Shephard Goldfein actually argued in court supporting this argument saying "fans would likely still buy tickets even if they knew teams were stealing signals"  Essentially the Court threw the case out in favor of the NFL which ultimately makes it legal to fix games for entertainment purposes.......

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4 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Kraft felt the league, with then Commish Tagliabue, helped Parcells screw the Pats and come to the Jets.

Kraft was the #1 advocate of Goodell as new Commish. Pats have been caught cheating several times. Owners across the league question the Kraft/Goodell union. Deflate gate was trumped into a spectacle to create perceived rift between Kraft/Goodell. Both men seen socially together throughout deflate gate. Pats win SB anyway, in impossible circumstances, with ref assist.

Goodell is re-upped as Commish, despite falling ratings. Pats looked like they weren’t going to get home field in playoffs in final quarter of the season. Several straight games feature Pats winning with red assists in form of PI calls and taking obvious TDS away from opponents. Ensuring them home field and a red carpet ride  to SB.

Money = Goodell indebted to Kraft

Something we can agree on.

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On 2/6/2018 at 12:15 AM, The Crimson King said:

Stepping aside and looking at this objectively, this whole claim raises some interesting questions. In all sports there are always questionable calls for no other reason than referring/umpiring is hard, really hard. The action is faster than the human eye oft times. To tear apart calls on film and after the fact is unfair. Just ask Armando Galaragga and Jim Joyce.

So let's assume that the Patriots are somehow favored by the league to the point that it creates victories for them. There are only a few reasons why this would be:

  1. It is like wrestling and roller derby and the sport is not much more than a phony spectacle designed for TV ratings, ticket sales and merchandise marketing. Perhaps this is what everyone is claiming, in which case, why is it a team in New England and not a major market?  
  2. Someone pays someone else a whole lot of money and is able to somehow keep it quiet over period of years. Who gets paid? the refs? Goodell? Not sure how to practically make this work.
  3. A nefarious fellow visits the right parties with Luca Brasi and "convinces" people to take action. In this day and age?

There is a rule of life and that rule is, when looking for the cause and effect of questionable activity, follow the money

So I am not criticizing or acting the role of contrarian but I am legitimately asking if there is any truth to this, if you were able to follow the money, where does it lead?

 

the money leads to kraft.  he's got a puny small market team that has dominated for nearly two decades.    even the cowboys or doltfins or raiders or steelers  couldn't do that in the era before salary caps.  kraft is one of the few owners who has made money from his team. lay the wins at the feet of brady/bellichicken all you want.  the simple fact is more than two passing tds were called back against teams that were playing the patsies and one was in a playoff game.  and the td pass that looked more doubtful was the one to the back of the end zone.

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12 hours ago, HessStation said:

The point is the Pats get help EVERY game from the refs and it's ALWAYS at crucial spots we're they need a little push of momentum. It's clockwork. The hold happens all the time it just happens to get called on 3rd and 7 when they're backed up and down two scores. And when they have the momentum the other team never gets a call, the two PI in the end zone for example. This happens EVERY game. I've watched most of them. If you can't see that you're blind as a bat.

Keep in mind this is nothing but perception from a fanbase that hates the Patriots.

9 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

Here is the link to the case.  

http://thefixisin.net/resources/precendential+opinion.pdf

In the case the NFL's attorneys argued that the fan simply "purchased a ticket which gives him a contractual right to a seat in a stadium to watch an NFL game between the Patriots and Jets, and this right was honored." More, Senior Judge Robert E. Cowen agreed stating that a ticket to a game only provides you access to the stadium and nothing more. The fan entered the stadium, witnessed an NFL game, therefore he did not suffer any damages to legally protected right or interest. The fan's lawyer, Bruce Afran disagreed and argued that the NFL committed consumer fraud saying "This seems to suggest that no matter how much ticker holders pay, they can be frauded by NFL teams which puts the NFL on the same level as professional wrestling".

Afran is correct in his judgement based on the interpretation of game fixing laws. A team can't fix their own games for gambling purposes, nor can they fix an intellectual contest (a ruling based n the Quiz Show scandal of the 1950s) But judges ruled that fixing a game for entertainment purposes was completely LEGAL NFL Attorney Shephard Goldfein actually argued in court supporting this argument saying "fans would likely still buy tickets even if they knew teams were stealing signals"  Essentially the Court threw the case out in favor of the NFL which ultimately makes it legal to fix games for entertainment purposes.......

I didn't see anything in there where the NFL said the league isn't competitive but sports entertainment.

12 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Kraft felt the league, with then Commish Tagliabue, helped Parcells screw the Pats and come to the Jets.

Kraft was the #1 advocate of Goodell as new Commish. Pats have been caught cheating several times. Owners across the league question the Kraft/Goodell union. Deflate gate was trumped into a spectacle to create perceived rift between Kraft/Goodell. Both men seen socially together throughout deflate gate. Pats win SB anyway, in impossible circumstances, with ref assist.

Goodell is re-upped as Commish, despite falling ratings. Pats looked like they weren’t going to get home field in playoffs in final quarter of the season. Several straight games feature Pats winning with red assists in form of PI calls and taking obvious TDS away from opponents. Ensuring them home field and a red carpet ride  to SB.

Money = Goodell indebted to Kraft

which was why Goodell suspended the face of the league, the face of the Patriots for 4 games over an issue where in the rulebook if you are caught you get a $25,000 fine.  Obviously Goodell is fixing SBs for them which is why they went a decade w/o winning one and almost a decade w/o winning one after Goodell took over.  They had won 3 w/ Tagliabue as commissioner so obviously Tagliabue w/ all his power was holding the Pats back then Goodell corrected that.:lol:

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1 hour ago, rangerous said:

the money leads to kraft.  he's got a puny small market team that has dominated for nearly two decades.    even the cowboys or doltfins or raiders or steelers  couldn't do that in the era before salary caps.  kraft is one of the few owners who has made money from his team. lay the wins at the feet of brady/bellichicken all you want.  the simple fact is more than two passing tds were called back against teams that were playing the patsies and one was in a playoff game.  and the td pass that looked more doubtful was the one to the back of the end zone.

so now the Boston market is a small market?

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26 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Keep in mind this is nothing but perception from a fanbase that hates the Patriots.

Every fan base hates the Pats bc more than half of their roads to the Super Bowl have come at the hands of, either straight up cheating or help from the referees that any objective human being would be able to identify. You apparently don't get out much. 

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8 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Something we can agree on.

We agree on the other point I made, too. You just needed it spelled out for you because you misinterpreted it - and chose to argue, rather than ask for clarification. Which gets you trolled, and uppity.

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

Keep in mind this is nothing but perception from a fanbase that hates the Patriots.

I didn't see anything in there where the NFL said the league isn't competitive but sports entertainment.

which was why Goodell suspended the face of the league, the face of the Patriots for 4 games over an issue where in the rulebook if you are caught you get a $25,000 fine.  Obviously Goodell is fixing SBs for them which is why they went a decade w/o winning one and almost a decade w/o winning one after Goodell took over.  They had won 3 w/ Tagliabue as commissioner so obviously Tagliabue w/ all his power was holding the Pats back then Goodell corrected that.:lol:

lol ^^^^^

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On 2/6/2018 at 7:12 AM, jamesr said:

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/5-calls-patriots-fans-can-use-blame-refs-super-bowl-loss-170237140.html

I find quite a lot of this article objectionable, but look at the image under Point 5 (posted below), of Hogan being taken out on the Hail Mary play. If the refs wanted ANY reason to give NE one more chance, this is a pretty clear, incontrovertible penalty for illegal contact, if nothing else. Yet it wasn't called.

 

DVPjGkQXcAAqClT.jpg

Keep playing that video and watch Gronk with a massive push off.

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5 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Keep playing that video and watch Gronk with a massive push off.

Yes, but at worst that would be offsetting penalties - one on Philly, one on NE. Result is another play for the Patsies.

Yet despite all the conspiracy theories that the refs were favouring NE ... nothing was called.

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13 hours ago, rangerous said:

the money leads to kraft.  he's got a puny small market team that has dominated for nearly two decades.    even the cowboys or doltfins or raiders or steelers  couldn't do that in the era before salary caps.  kraft is one of the few owners who has made money from his team. lay the wins at the feet of brady/bellichicken all you want.  the simple fact is more than two passing tds were called back against teams that were playing the patsies and one was in a playoff game.  and the td pass that looked more doubtful was the one to the back of the end zone.

Well, the Cowboys did have 20 straight winning seasons and went to 5 Super Bowls.  The Raiders were a top team from the mid 60's to early 80s, but I get your point. 

The market doesn't matter it's shared revenue.  I never really thought of the Boston area as small market, I guess that's why the Red Sox don't spend much.

I'm just giving a hard time.   The Pats get an awful lot of calls go their way, and officials celebrating with players, stuff like that.

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2 hours ago, jamesr said:

Yes, but at worst that would be offsetting penalties - one on Philly, one on NE. Result is another play for the Patsies.

Yet despite all the conspiracy theories that the refs were favouring NE ... nothing was called.

1 penalty in two playoff games leafing to the SB  , You can't tell NE is that disciplined. Their offensive line like most in the NFL hold virtually on every play but somehow they never get called unless its in a blowout game . Same sh*t happened with the Dolphins when Shula was on the competition committee,. 

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57 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Well, the Cowboys did have 20 straight winning seasons and went to 5 Super Bowls.  The Raiders were a top team from the mid 60's to early 80s, but I get your point. 

The market doesn't matter it's shared revenue.  I never really thought of the Boston area as small market, I guess that's why the Red Sox don't spend much.

I'm just giving a hard time.   The Pats get an awful lot of calls go their way, and officials celebrating with players, stuff like that.

it's tough to compare eras.  imo the level of competition was better in the 60's, 70's and 80's because there were fewer teams.  the niners took to cheating on their salary cap to squeeze out their last sb win. and now we have this era of parity.  it kind of makes what the patsies have done even more remarkable but it still stems from kraft figuring out how to make money with his team.  i'm not sure if all the revenue is shared.  i know the tv contract and stadium gate is.  i'm not sure about the hats, tee shirts, etc.

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23 hours ago, HessStation said:

Every fan base hates the Pats bc more than half of their roads to the Super Bowl have come at the hands of, either straight up cheating or help from the referees that any objective human being would be able to identify. You apparently don't get out much. 

yes every fanbase hates the Pats(that's what happens to winners) but no one hates them like us. we can make whiny excuses but they aren't taking away any trophies.  The Pats did what they had to do.  If BB doesn't leave here and drafts Brady and this dynasty is ours you'd be making excuses the other way complaining about whiny Pats fans. 

11 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

1 penalty in two playoff games leafing to the SB  , You can't tell NE is that disciplined. Their offensive line like most in the NFL hold virtually on every play but somehow they never get called unless its in a blowout game . Same sh*t happened with the Dolphins when Shula was on the competition committee,. 

They didn't call a lot on NE this postseason but when they won in 2014 they called 18 penalties in their 3 games(only 6 this year).  I can't tell you if they did a good job or not,I didn't see any controversial calls go their way outside of the 1st half against an overmatched Ten team that would have lost even if all those calls went for them. Good teams tend to get the benefit of the doubt.

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23 hours ago, munchmemory said:

As a franchise, we need to stop focusing on what New England does.  Please end this bizarre preoccupation with every last detail of their existence. I stopped giving a sh*t years ago.

As a franchise, we will never prosper until the fans stop discussing fan things on an internet fan forum?

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33 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

About the Jets?  Totally.  Fixated on the Patriots and whatever the fuk it is they do (some of it bordering on pathologically obsessed)?  Nope.

This thread is the reason for Vernon Gholsten and Christian Hackenberg?

The other pats thread is the reason for idzik? 

Which pats thread must we delete to get rid of bowles? 

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On 2/6/2018 at 7:49 AM, bla bla bla said:

I thought the same thing on that play. It should have kept the clock rolling or it was a fumble. There I see no situation where I felt he was out of bounds since his forward progress stopped in bounds.

If his forward progress is stopped, as you readily admit....the play is dead before the ball is stripped.

just sayin....

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1 minute ago, IndianaJet said:

If his forward progress is stopped, as you readily admit....the play is dead before the ball is stripped.

just sayin....

 

Forward progress being stopped is a subjective call by the referees. That's why it's not eligible for review. Therefore, forward progress is not stopped when you or I decide, it's when the referee blows the whistle.

In this case, the referee didn't blow the whistle until he clearly saw the ball on the ground and in the field of play.

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On 2/7/2018 at 8:28 AM, munchmemory said:

As a franchise, we need to stop focusing on what New England does.  Please end this bizarre preoccupation with every last detail of their existence. I stopped giving a sh*t years ago.

Exactly - just look at the Colts pressser yesterday. Their GM was spot on with everything he said.  It was almost the perfect press conference....then he dropped that stupid "The rivalry is back on" line.  Now, that's what everyone is talking about it and he looks like an idiot because the Colts suck and the only people who think there's a rivalry are the Colts FO and their moronic fans.

It's kind of laughable living out here.  If you think Jets fans are obsessed with the Pats....go talk to some Colts fans, then you'll realize very quickly how stupid we look when we obsess over every little thing the Pats do.  

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

 

Forward progress being stopped is a subjective call by the referees. That's why it's not eligible for review. Therefore, forward progress is not stopped when you or I decide, it's when the referee blows the whistle.

In this case, the referee didn't blow the whistle until he clearly saw the ball on the ground and in the field of play.

Except...forward progress WAS stopped.  Clearly.  The only thing the ref did wrong there was not blow the whistle soon enough.

That was 100% the right call on the play.

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13 hours ago, rangerous said:

it's tough to compare eras.  imo the level of competition was better in the 60's, 70's and 80's because there were fewer teams.  the niners took to cheating on their salary cap to squeeze out their last sb win. and now we have this era of parity.  it kind of makes what the patsies have done even more remarkable but it still stems from kraft figuring out how to make money with his team.  i'm not sure if all the revenue is shared.  i know the tv contract and stadium gate is.  i'm not sure about the hats, tee shirts, etc.

Not all the money is shared, but the big TV money is.  Every team turns a profit, some may make a little more or a little less.  However, the local revenue doesn't affect what the teams spend as far as the cap, every team has the same cap, and has to spend up to 97% of it.  I guess a really cheap owner could spend 5 million less then say, the Cowboys, but on a whole team, what is that, a mediocre guard?

It is amazing what they have done.  When you look at, for example the 70s Steelers.  That team could not exist today.  You could not pay all those players on defense, it would have been broken up within a few years. 

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1 hour ago, IndianaJet said:

Except...forward progress WAS stopped.  Clearly.  The only thing the ref did wrong there was not blow the whistle soon enough.

That was 100% the right call on the play.

So the ref was wrong. Exactly. That's the point of this entire thread. Based on when the ref wrongly blew the whistle, that should have been a fumble. 

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On 2/6/2018 at 6:42 PM, southparkcpa said:

I think that the NFL has heard the claims of fans around the league about bad calls, PATS etc and knew if they overturned the Ertz play, that would be Armageddon and yes the Eagles got 1 or 2 good no calls as did the Pats.  It was refreshing to have fewer penalties.  Just watching Gronk, Brady and co call for interference all season is ridiculous.

Was delicious watching Gronk give up on the jump ball to end the game and calling for PI as he went to the ground. On a Hail Mary jump ball with everyone playing the ball. It was hilarious.

 

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3 hours ago, IndianaJet said:

If his forward progress is stopped, as you readily admit....the play is dead before the ball is stripped.

just sayin....

Well thats just it, I think it should have been blown dead and the clock should have kept running or it should have been a fumble but certainly not out of bounds.

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2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

So the ref was wrong. Exactly. That's the point of this entire thread. Based on when the ref wrongly blew the whistle, that should have been a fumble. 

you are still at this?  they got the call correct, it's not even debatable. Move along to another play.

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

Was delicious watching Gronk give up on the jump ball to end the game and calling for PI as he went to the ground. On a Hail Mary jump ball with everyone playing the ball. It was hilarious.

 

Brady did a hell of a job getting out of that pressure. I HATE to say it, but he is the GOAT.

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