McShay Mock 2.0

[Greensleeves]

7 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

I so hope your right.

Let's be real for a second. Noone has a clue on how Josh Allen is going to play in the NFL. He impressed people at the Senior Bowl when his game escalated after being around more talented players that he didn't even know. A friend of mine watches a ton of college ball and he said he would rather have Allen than any other QB - thinks he is going to be great. Don't act like you can project how good or bad this kid can be. Truth is we don't know, BUT, he's a consensus top 6 pick and Hack was never that. He supposedly loves football, has a ton of talent, and is a good kid from what I've read. I would much rather go that route than sign a vet for decent short term success and no chance at a Super Bowl.

[BurnleyJet]

4 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

Let's be real for a second. Noone has a clue on how Josh Allen is going to play in the NFL. He impressed people at the Senior Bowl when his game escalated after being around more talented players that he didn't even know. A friend of mine watches a ton of college ball and he said he would rather have Allen than any other QB - thinks he is going to be great. Don't act like you can project how good or bad this kid can be. Truth is we don't know, BUT, he's a consensus top 6 pick and Hack was never that. He supposedly loves football, has a ton of talent, and is a good kid from what I've read. I would much rather go that route than sign a vet for decent short term success and no chance at a Super Bowl.

Ok I can't give an opinion now, I also have watched a lot of collage football this year, because I know the Jets  are very likely to pick one. 

My take is Allen is a physical specimen, by he seems to lack the ability to read defences, make the correct throws, over throw he's receivers, or go through progressions. In short I think he's a bad pick, and I don't want him. I'd sooner have Mayfield, point taken no one has a cystal ball, but I also thought Hack was a poor pick.

I could be wrong, but I have the right to express what I think, and I think he's not very good.

 

[Fantasy Island]

McShay , you are an idiot. Mac got extended with the picks he has already made.  Minka will be ours, and we will have the inside track to resign McCown.  More BS to come boys and girls, more to come.

[Fantasy Island]

6 hours ago, Larz said:

Drafting a QB with accuracy issues is like a WR that can't catch, a RB that can't run or a Charlie in the box 

We have drafted all those.

[long suffering jets fan]

18 hours ago, Stark said:

If we knew that Darnold, Rosen, and even Mayfield will be gone by our 6th pick, I think I would rather just sign Cousins and draft either:

Connor Williams or Orlando Brown

 

and then draft a QB later... Jackson/Falk or Lauletta

 

Allen is going to overwhelmingly disappoint 

I'd rather have Allen than Rosen. Rosen is a total prick.  I don't want to play for the Browns, F Trump, not a great teammate at UCLA. And this is before he's drafted.  What do you think is going to happen when he signs a big contract? This is a classic spoiled rich kid, with a huge ego and sense of entitlement!  F him!  Regardless of political leanings you cant ignore the fact that this kid thinks he's above it all. 

[long suffering jets fan]

4 minutes ago, long suffering jets fan said:

I'd rather have Allen than Rosen. Rosen is a total prick.  I don't want to play for the Browns, F Trump, not a great teammate at UCLA. And this is before he's drafted.  What do you think is going to happen when he signs a big contract? This is a classic spoiled rich kid, with a huge ego and sense of entitlement!  F him!  Regardless of political leanings you cant ignore the fact that this kid thinks he's above it all. 

One more thing, I'm not a huge Mayfield fan, but i'd go for him over Rosen any day.  If there's anyone who should be compared with Manziel it's Rosen.  Same sh*tty above it all attitude.

[long suffering jets fan]

7 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

Let's be real for a second. Noone has a clue on how Josh Allen is going to play in the NFL. He impressed people at the Senior Bowl when his game escalated after being around more talented players that he didn't even know. A friend of mine watches a ton of college ball and he said he would rather have Allen than any other QB - thinks he is going to be great. Don't act like you can project how good or bad this kid can be. Truth is we don't know, BUT, he's a consensus top 6 pick and Hack was never that. He supposedly loves football, has a ton of talent, and is a good kid from what I've read. I would much rather go that route than sign a vet for decent short term success and no chance at a Super Bowl.

You had me till the last sentence.  If we draft a QB I wouldn't hate an Allen pick for all the reasons cited, but if I can grab Cousins, I do it.

[Stark]

4 hours ago, long suffering jets fan said:

I'd rather have Allen than Rosen. Rosen is a total prick.  I don't want to play for the Browns, F Trump, not a great teammate at UCLA. And this is before he's drafted.  What do you think is going to happen when he signs a big contract? This is a classic spoiled rich kid, with a huge ego and sense of entitlement!  F him!  Regardless of political leanings you cant ignore the fact that this kid thinks he's above it all. 

okay thats great. Allen is going to be a disappointment, he is Logan Thomas and Jack Locker. Enjoy that. 

No one wants to play for the Browns. lol. It does not bother me that he is opinionated and has a big ego. Spoiled rich kid, maybe. Rosen is pretty damn intelligent and the "not a great teammate" seems to be over exaggerated (see his teammate saying that this is BS). 

Best passer in the draft and you wold rather have a "hackenburg like" prospect. You should have come with Darnold or Mayfield... Allen lol, what a damn joke. 

[bla bla bla]

I don't think there is any way we stay at #6 if we miss out on Cousins. We got an extra 2nd so we would have the ammo to get a QB, use it to get up to #3. I see the Colts moving back with us or the Broncos so they can still land Chubb, just depends if Cousins picks a team outside those two because then we will be competing with the Broncos to move up.

[JustInFudge]

12 hours ago, Greensleeves said:

Let's be real for a second. Noone has a clue on how Josh Allen is going to play in the NFL. He impressed people at the Senior Bowl when his game escalated after being around more talented players that he didn't even know. A friend of mine watches a ton of college ball and he said he would rather have Allen than any other QB - thinks he is going to be great. Don't act like you can project how good or bad this kid can be. Truth is we don't know, BUT, he's a consensus top 6 pick and Hack was never that. He supposedly loves football, has a ton of talent, and is a good kid from what I've read. I would much rather go that route than sign a vet for decent short term success and no chance at a Super Bowl.

You right, nobody has a crystal ball but Allen misses passes that are stupid easy.  Just like Hack.  It's very hard to think that's going to improve when everything is 10000x harder than playing at Wyoming.

Re the bold: Similar to the Darnold in the Rose bowl his freshman year, Hack was everyone's darling 1st overall pick after his breakout party in the Rose Bowl his freshman year.  Many were saying when he comes out, he would be the first overall pick. Fast forward 2 years and many considered him undraftable. 

[usanyj]

14 hours ago, Larz said:

Drafting a QB with accuracy issues is like a WR that can't catch, a RB that can't run or a Charlie in the box 

Nobody wants a Charlie in the box!!!

[usanyj]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

You right, nobody has a crystal ball but Allen misses passes that are stupid easy.  Just like Hack.  It's very hard to think that's going to improve when everything is 10000x harder than playing at Wyoming.

Re the bold: Similar to the Darnold in the Rose bowl his freshman year, Hack was everyone's darling 1st overall pick after his breakout party in the Rose Bowl his freshman year.  Many were saying when he comes out, he would be the first overall pick. Fast forward 2 years and many considered him undraftable. 

Hack was also a top high school recruit, and ran the patriots offense under bill O'Brien.  Even gruden saw that when he was scouting him.  I am a PSU fan and it has shocked me how he has gone backwards.

[Greensleeves]

8 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Ok I can't give an opinion now, I also have watched a lot of collage football this year, because I know the Jets  are very likely to pick one. 

My take is Allen is a physical specimen, by he seems to lack the ability to read defences, make the correct throws, over throw he's receivers, or go through progressions. In short I think he's a bad pick, and I don't want him. I'd sooner have Mayfield, point taken no one has a cystal ball, but I also thought Hack was a poor pick.

I could be wrong, but I have the right to express what I think, and I think he's not very good.

 

Of course everyone can express their opinions - it seems piling on the kid, especially after his two most important games where he showed more accuracy and touch - I just think is unfair. I like Mayfield as well - we just need to identify the QB we like and move to 1, 2 or 3 to get him. If the Broncos sign Cousins, I would be willing to bet the Giants may do business with us because of where we draft.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, usanyj said:

Hack was also a top high school recruit, and ran the patriots offense under bill O'Brien.  Even gruden saw that when he was scouting him.  I am a PSU fan and it has shocked me how he has gone backwards.

It's bizarre.  Can a change of systems and drop off on the OL make that big of an impact?  Looking at it now, it was probably that Hack just wasnt that good but that was such a drastic drop off that it's hard to put your finger on it.

[prime21]

14 hours ago, Larz said:

Drafting a QB with accuracy issues is like a WR that can't catch, a RB that can't run or a Charlie in the box 

Love the reference!

[prime21]

If we don't sign Cousins and Allen is the only QB left of the top 4 when we pick, do we take him?

[CeeJayy]

11 minutes ago, prime21 said:

If we don't sign Cousins and Allen is the only QB left of the top 4 when we pick, do we take him?

If Macc likes him go for it, if not, I'd look for a lightning in a bottle QB like Bridgewater or MacCaron then try to trade down with another QB needy team (Arizona, Buffalo, Miami) get their 2019 1st rounder to give the Jets more ammo for a QB in next years draft class (Patterson, Stidham, Lock, etc..)

 

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

15 minutes ago, prime21 said:

If we don't sign Cousins and Allen is the only QB left of the top 4 when we pick, do we take him?

If Allen's best attribute is being "the only QB left of the top 4", then no. 

If Macc thinks Allen is one of the best 10-15 players in the draft and has a very good chance of  becoming a franchise QB, then yes. 

The reality is that I am sure there are teams that have Mayfield graded as a 2nd round player and teams that have Allen graded as a 2nd round player based on how they evaluate talent (some teams may put a ton of value in being tall (not Mayfield) and some may put a ton of value in having a high comp pct in college (not Allen)). 

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, prime21 said:

If we don't sign Cousins and Allen is the only QB left of the top 4 when we pick, do we take him?

Then we've lost, we need to move up if this scenario starts to form after the first two picks. 

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, adb280z said:

I don't want Mayfield, yes to Allen!

3 for 7 for 9 yards at the senior bowl didn’t excite u?

[Il Mostro]

On 2/6/2018 at 8:20 AM, Ken Shroy said:

I don't see the Giants drafting a QB there either. They have so many holes to fill. I think they trade back.

The flip side to that is in focusing solely on filling those holes, at the expense of not drafting a QB this year, will put them somewhere well South of the top in future drafts for the foreseeable future.  Who knows when they will have the opportunity to snag a highly rated QB prospect again.  

Sure, they have holes to fill but I do not think they can afford to pass on a QB in this draft if their guy is available, notwithstanding any deference to Eli. Last time I checked, Father Time is undefeated and Eli is squarely in his sights.  They can take someone they think is the QB of the future and still address other needs -- it is a balancing act, not either/or.  This year's putrid season was a gift they cannot afford to pass up if they believe their #2 QB prospect is legit.

[Il Mostro]

Sign Cousins, use the #6 for BPA and go from there.  This is the best allocation of resources.  

Are any of these QB prospects' ceilings higher than what Cousins would give us now and for the next few years?  I don't think so.  All of them, including Darnold, have their warts -- with Allen having a big, venereal wart on the tip of his nose.  I will puke if they go with Allen, but it is the most Jetsy pick for sure.

[prime21]

33 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

Sign Cousins, use the #6 for BPA and go from there.  This is the best allocation of resources.  

Are any of these QB prospects' ceilings higher than what Cousins would give us now and for the next few years?  I don't think so.  All of them, including Darnold, have their warts -- with Allen having a big, venereal wart on the tip of his nose.  I will puke if they go with Allen, but it is the most Jetsy pick for sure.

Allen is a swing for the fences move for the Jets.  We do not make good contact so I rather hit a double in the gap.

I don't think the Giants are picking a QB but if they do then I think Allen is perfect for them IF they believe he has the highest ceiling.  Manning can stay the QB for two more years.  

[Greensleeves]

34 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

Sign Cousins, use the #6 for BPA and go from there.  This is the best allocation of resources.  

Are any of these QB prospects' ceilings higher than what Cousins would give us now and for the next few years?  I don't think so.  All of them, including Darnold, have their warts -- with Allen having a big, venereal wart on the tip of his nose.  I will puke if they go with Allen, but it is the most Jetsy pick for sure.

Pretty much all of the top QBs have the ability to have a higher ceiling than Cousins. How can we possibly pass on them when Cousins is already older and the team is not ready to win. I would be pretty pissed if we mortgage our future on Cousins instead of being able to build a young team that can compete year after year for Super Bowls. I could care less if we win one playoff game one year because we could regress to 8-8 or 9-7 the next year. I want to build a team that can win the division for the next 10 years. Cousins will not get us that. He will be instant gratification, but no Super Bowl, and then we're back to where we started. This team is young now - continue to build it with a talented, rookie QB.

[Philc1]

11 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Allen is a swing for the fences move for the Jets.  We do not make good contact so I rather hit a double in the gap.

I don't think the Giants are picking a QB but if they do then I think Allen is perfect for them IF they believe he has the highest ceiling.  Manning can stay the QB for two more years.  

Allen threw 2 touchdowns in the senior bowl and overall looked good.  I don’t know what happened in Wyoming but I wouldn’t hate him at 6

[prime21]

34 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Allen threw 2 touchdowns in the senior bowl and overall looked good.  I don’t know what happened in Wyoming but I wouldn’t hate him at 6

I would rather draft Lamar Jackson than Allen.  However, I do not want to draft either one of them at #6.  

[Philc1]

12 minutes ago, prime21 said:

I would rather drat Lamar Jackson than Allen.  However, I do not want to draft either one of them at #6.  

I think we sign Cousins.  Even Macc has to be aware of the fact that he can’t evaluate young qbs

[bitonti]

Josh Allen to the Jets is the most Jets thing that can possibly happen.   Hackenberg is poor man Josh Allen.   

[bitonti]

36 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I think we sign Cousins.  Even Macc has to be aware of the fact that he can’t evaluate young qbs

The best thing to do with a guy who can't evaluate QBs is send him to the QB store with 100 million dollars

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

I think we sign Cousins.  Even Macc has to be aware of the fact that he can’t evaluate young qbs

Last April, pre-draft no one on this board wanted to touch Watson or Mahomes, and we were ecstatic to have "stolen" Adams at 6.  The Jets were shocked he was there, and they supposedly told him during his visit to FP that there was no way he would be there when the Jets picked.  They why did they have Adams visit FP?  i digress, but that showed to me that Mac is pretty clueless when it comes to draft value and drafting strategically.

In retrospect it also showed the power of Kiper/McShay is swaying public draft opinion.  I think Adams had a very powerful PR machine going.  It took until mid-season for everyone to start wondering why a 5-11 safety who runs a 4.6 would get drafted 6th?  Good player, but not 6th.

In any event, by mid-season Watson was the draft darling, and fandom was criticizing the Jets for not picking him.  The fact of the matter is that O'Brien, who apparently did not want him, was able to craft a gameplan for him in his dome that worked.   It was a combination of player and coach that made Watson work.  In the end his fragility did him in, and that could be his ultimate undoing, but the Texans were able to create something with Watson.

Allen is not walking onto the Jets and functioning as a 6th pick.  He will require a serious coach and scheme up.  The Jets have not shown the ability under MacBowles to do that yet.  They should be betting the farm on Cousins.  The next best option (to me, not the popular opinion), is McCown/Foles and a Rudolph/Falk/Lauletta.   You can see how Plan B would appeal to the Johnsons-not a crazy idea, actually.  Serves them right for not tanking properly.

[Philc1]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

The best thing to do with a guy who can't evaluate QBs is send him to the QB store with 100 million dollars

So you want the guy who drafted Hack and Petty to pick the qb of the future at 6?

[Fantasy Island]

11 hours ago, varjet said:

Last April, pre-draft no one on this board wanted to touch Watson or Mahomes, and we were ecstatic to have "stolen" Adams at 6.  The Jets were shocked he was there, and they supposedly told him during his visit to FP that there was no way he would be there when the Jets picked.  They why did they have Adams visit FP?  i digress, but that showed to me that Mac is pretty clueless when it comes to draft value and drafting strategically.

In retrospect it also showed the power of Kiper/McShay is swaying public draft opinion.  I think Adams had a very powerful PR machine going.  It took until mid-season for everyone to start wondering why a 5-11 safety who runs a 4.6 would get drafted 6th?  Good player, but not 6th.

In any event, by mid-season Watson was the draft darling, and fandom was criticizing the Jets for not picking him.  The fact of the matter is that O'Brien, who apparently did not want him, was able to craft a gameplan for him in his dome that worked.   It was a combination of player and coach that made Watson work.  In the end his fragility did him in, and that could be his ultimate undoing, but the Texans were able to create something with Watson.

Allen is not walking onto the Jets and functioning as a 6th pick.  He will require a serious coach and scheme up.  The Jets have not shown the ability under MacBowles to do that yet.  They should be betting the farm on Cousins.  The next best option (to me, not the popular opinion), is McCown/Foles and a Rudolph/Falk/Lauletta.   You can see how Plan B would appeal to the Johnsons-not a crazy idea, actually.  Serves them right for not tanking properly.

Not true, I wanted Watson at 6.  

[varjet]

5 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Not true, I wanted Watson at 6.  

Apologies.  I think the right characterization would be minority.

[The Crusher]

13 hours ago, Philc1 said:

So you want the guy who drafted Hack and Petty to pick the qb of the future at 6?

Nobody who bleeds green wants that. Nobody. Rest of the world does, so they can point and laugh at our anguish watching the new Jetsdraftblunders video on the Youtube. Coming soon!

[Warfish]

Sign Cousins.

Draft Mayfield at pick #6

Draft Falk in the late 2nd around

In order of preference this is what I prefer today.

I do not trade up. I do not draft Allen even if he’s all that’s left at 6. I do not chase Foles or Keenem or Bradfordetc in FA.

jmo