Ex-Jet Chad Pennington shares insight on Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen

[nyjunc]

Not to mention Chad is the ONLY QB in the Brady era besides Brady to lead his teams to div titles.  Once when Brady was hurt but in 2002 when Brady played 16 games he led the Jets to only our 2nd ever(still searching for #3) AFC East title and it's the only season in his career that Brady didn't win the division.

also, at Foxboro against Brady Chad was 2-2 a starter in the reg season.  other Jets QBs at NE vs. Brady in reg season?  0-11

we celebrate Brett Favre for sabotaging a season for us and bash Chad Pennington for all he did.  I just don't understand this fanbase.

[Bleedin Green]

8 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he was struggling, we had an awful OL(remember we spent big to upgrade that offseason) but he was hurt.  he got hurt week 1 and played through it though poorly.  It was his only stretch of poor football in his career.  amazingly great Jet fans remember this and nothing else.

the pro bowl is a joke.  he deserved at least 2 PB trips.  Drew Bledsoe made it over him in 2002 and Chad led the NFL in passing that year.

what is laughable are the Jet fans that try to bash Chad when all he did was help us win when he was healthy.

2002 weeks 1-4 w/ Vinny starting our offense scored a total of 37 points(9.3 PPG).

weeks 5-16 w/ chad starting the O averaged 24.6 PPG then in the playoffs set a franchise record for points scored in a postseason game by the Jets offense. Denver was 7th in the league scoring 24.5 PPG so we would have been 6th w/ the average under Chad(and I took away D/STs TDs from us and didn't do it for the other offenses so we may have been higher).

why do Jet fans hate the Jets so much? why do they hate the little success we have had?

When you say the "only poor stretch", I assume you really mean 2003, 2005, 2007, and the remainder of his playoff career after the Colts game?  After 2002, 2004 was the only other Jets' season where Chad had more TDs than turnovers.  2 out of 6 ain't bad, huh?

You were the one attempting to cite awards he didn't even get, so a little tough to try to dismiss it when he doesn't earn the one given out to far more players than any other.  Strange that for all of the great career he supposedly had, the only point you can make when he may have actually deserved it was for his first partial year that everyone concedes was a good one.

The point is simple, the hate is not of the success, it is of the failure, and in Chad's career, after 2002 the bad outweighed the good.  Your evaluation of QB's has been proven time and again to be based on a decision you make in advance based on how much you like the person, followed by a very peculiar, regularly self-contradictory set of arguments you try to concoct to justify that predetermined point.

The better question is why do some Jets fans accept endless streams of mediocrity as some sort of accomplishment, while the reason of the league laughs?

[CTM]

47 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

 

the pro bowl is a joke.  he deserved at least 2 PB trips.  Drew Bledsoe made it over him in 2002 and Chad led the NFL in passing that year.

 

You clearly don't understand how NFL pro bowl voting works. This year, the window was open from weeks 10-14, lets say the majority of votes occur around week 12. That means the last 4-5 games haven't even been played by the  time peak voting is occurring.

Now, in 2002 Chad had 22 TD, 6 INT and 3120 yards for the season, however he was only really pro bowl level at the end of the season when he closed the last 4 games with a 9/0 TD/INT ratio. In week 12 when voting may have peaked he had 11 TD and 5 INT and under 2000 yards. When voting closed he had 15 TD and 6 INT, and 2600 yards. This is good, but nowhere near probowl level.

The entire mythology of chad was basically built on a great 3-4 game run in 2002 that was never again duplicated.

[Jetsfan80]

On 2/7/2018 at 3:56 PM, peebag said:

He set the team back years pretending to be a pro qb.  He's a faker.

 

15 hours ago, jetsfansince7 said:

I have to disagree. Did you miss the colts playoff game where he put up 44 points? He got hurt and lost velocity off an already average arm. He could have been one of our best.
 

That playoff game occurred in 2002.  Peebag is saying he set the team back for years; I.E., for his performance from 2003-2007. 

What part of peebag's post is wrong?

[jetsfansince7]

That playoff game occurred in 2002.  Peebag is saying he set the team back for years; I.E., for his performance from 2003-2007. 
What part of peebag's post is wrong?

Chad PENNINGTON was not a faker. He went to Miami and beat our ass.


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[RedBeardedSavage]

7 hours ago, CTM said:

Chad was a phony and savvy marketer of his personal "aww shucks" personal brand, everything he did was intentional to maximize the amount of money he made. There's a quote from him back at the combine that revels his motivation and willingness to morph into what he needs to to maximize the money he makes (quoted below). This mentality was later used to manipulate fans where he put on a facade that all he cared about was winning, not money. Floating stories about how he offered to "give back" money to make the team better (and the team declined), or that he didn't want to be distracted by contract, wanted to focus on football and shortly there after signed what was at the time I think the second biggest guaranteed money. All part of a pattern to manipulate fans so he maximized his marketing and salary opportunities. And fans to this day still fellate him at every opportunity despite a career with unequivocally mediocre at best results that cost the team millions and years.

Of course there is no problem with him wanting to make as much money as possible, but we should just see it for what it's worth. Chad was basically a politician and branding expert , a less transparent Trump (Or Clinton) but the same type of scoundrel who cultivated a group of devoted fans who lop up the BS and advocate for him on forums such as these.

And don't forget his lecture to media after receiving mild criticism for poor play that it was "an honor and a privilege" for lowly people such as themselves to get to be around modern day gods known as athletes. How that window into how he really thinks didn't burst the what a great guy Chad is bubble I'll never know, but he laid it out very directly. How dare you criticize me, you should be honored just to be in my presence!

As to his opinion on QB's, he doesn't like either, here again he's adept at veiling criticism. The first guy will be overwhelmed by the city, second guy isn't accurate enough.  I'd give his opinion about as much weight as I'd give TomShane's though, which is to say 0

 

After a bad loss I've seen a lot of players and coaches who are good human beings angrily answer questions/lecture the media.  That has to be one of the worst parts of the job and it shouldn't be mandatory.  All of us have said plenty of things when we were angry or frustrated that, after we regained our composure, regretted.  Now think about having to face the New York media and their constant provocations after one of your worst days on the job. 

You're not going to be at your best.  You've either got to bite your tongue and rattle off cliches; which is disingenuous, or you speak bluntly out of anger and wounded pride; which is foolish and misguided. 

Yes, Pennington 'played the game' with the press.  And yes, after that game he slipped up and revealed his disdain for what they do.  But 'playing the game' he was also able to win them back.  Sh*t on it all you want, but that's a big part of why we ask when a new athlete comes to NY; "can they handle it here?"  You've got to be diplomatic, relaxed, humble and charming to win over the New York media in a way that's different than almost every other city.  You can't just hide here like in other places, especially when you're a quarterback.  

Pennington was never a guy to blame a teammate, coach or fans.  Hell, there was a point we jets fans cheered when he got injured.  And every teammate or coach you've ever heard of said Pennington was classy and professional.  

I think a lot of what you and @Bleedin Green wrote is revisionist history.  None of this is about him as a player.  I've got no problem with people arguing that Chad was a mirage as a player; a false prophet of a franchise quarterback; a weak armed injury prone game manager and, ultimately, a mistake to invest in.  That's exactly how I see him as a player.  

But I can separate the person from the player.  And I don't think to be savvy with the NY media or to endear yourself to Jets fans shows weak character.  You can't be the television anti-hero and play quarterback in New York; that sh*t won't last.

[Bleedin Green]

6 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

After a bad loss I've seen a lot of players and coaches who are good human beings angrily answer questions/lecture the media.  That has to be one of the worst parts of the job and it shouldn't be mandatory.  All of us have said plenty of things when we were angry or frustrated that, after we regained our composure, regretted.  Now think about having to face the New York media and their constant provocations after one of your worst days on the job. 

You're not going to be at your best.  You've either got to bite your tongue and rattle off cliches; which is disingenuous, or you speak bluntly out of anger and wounded pride; which is foolish and misguided. 

Yes, Pennington 'played the game' with the press.  And yes, after that game he slipped up and revealed his disdain for what they do.  But 'playing the game' he was also able to win them back.  Sh*t on it all you want, but that's a big part of why we ask when a new athlete comes to NY; "can they handle it here?"  You've got to be diplomatic, relaxed, humble and charming to win over the New York media in a way that's different than almost every other city.  You can't just hide here like in other places, especially when you're a quarterback.  

Pennington was never a guy to blame a teammate, coach or fans.  Hell, there was a point we jets fans cheered when he got injured.  And every teammate or coach you've ever heard of said Pennington was classy and professional.  

I think a lot of what you and @Bleedin Green wrote is revisionist history.  None of this is about him as a player.  I've got no problem with people arguing that Chad was a mirage as a player; a false prophet of a franchise quarterback; a weak armed injury prone game manager and, ultimately, a mistake to invest in.  That's exactly how I see him as a player.  

But I can separate the person from the player.  And I don't think to be savvy with the NY media or to endear yourself to Jets fans shows weak character.  You can't be the television anti-hero and play quarterback in New York; that sh*t won't last.

It's a fair enough point and I agree that the performance on the field doesn't necessarily speak to the kind of person someone is.  There are amazingly talented players who are awful people, and terrible players who are good folks.  I'm not a fan of his on or off the field, mostly because I thought even at the time that a lot of what he tried to sell people was... let's say "less than sincere".

I can understand why some would not necessarily agree with that, but the part that baffles me is why anyone would speak so highly of what a supposedly amazing person he is, as I can not recall a single thing in his 8 years here that ever spoke to that.  He mostly seemed to be pretty full of himself, given how much he liked to pat himself on the back about questionable things.  I mean, come on, it takes a really twisted mind to be praising yourself for a supposed "discount" after agreeing to get paid tens of millions by your team, at the time second in the league only to Manning.  He was also pretty infamous for not taking any blame after his poor performances, which is hardly the sign of a supposed leader.  The fit he threw in 2007, when no longer being handed everything after 5 years of mediocrity, didn't do much to speak of him as a great guy either.  I can understand a general indifference to him as a person and not necessarily thinking as poorly of him as I may, but I can't get any degree of love for the guy, short of someone independently knowing him on a personal level.  In truth, it always seemed to me to mostly be a bit of a fabricated storyline used by some fans as a reason to continue to praise a guy they were all in on after 2002, when his performance on the field wasn't giving them enough reason to do so.

On the field, well... I think he sucked after 2002, but that's a different point.

[Jetsfan80]

20 hours ago, jetsfansince7 said:

 

Chad PENNINGTON was not a faker. He went to Miami and beat our ass.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

 

Ronnie Brown, the wildcat, and Favre's right bicep injury beat our ass.  

[jetsfansince7]

 
Ronnie Brown, the wildcat, and Favre's right bicep injury beat our ass.  

Ok champ.


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[TuscanyTile2]

On 2/8/2018 at 12:41 AM, SAR I said:

Chad Pennington makes me sick. Incredibly selfish player.  

SAR I

I can't stand Chad either.  I don't know it's that I think he's selfish but I think he thinks he's some kind of Jets royalty.  I think he was an overrated noodle-arm who also said that line to reporters about how lucky they are to cover athletes.  He also went to the Dolphins.

I feel like some Jet fans gave him far too much love that he was never deserving of and it went to his head.  He's probably a little better than I give him credit for but I still say the guy had a way-too-low ceiling to ever expect the team to win the really important games.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, jetsfansince7 said:

Ok champ.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

lol.  Symptom of a true Penningtologist.  When all else fails, be condescending.  

[nyjunc]

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 2:00 PM, Bleedin Green said:

When you say the "only poor stretch", I assume you really mean 2003, 2005, 2007, and the remainder of his playoff career after the Colts game?  After 2002, 2004 was the only other Jets' season where Chad had more TDs than turnovers.  2 out of 6 ain't bad, huh?

You were the one attempting to cite awards he didn't even get, so a little tough to try to dismiss it when he doesn't earn the one given out to far more players than any other.  Strange that for all of the great career he supposedly had, the only point you can make when he may have actually deserved it was for his first partial year that everyone concedes was a good one.

The point is simple, the hate is not of the success, it is of the failure, and in Chad's career, after 2002 the bad outweighed the good.  Your evaluation of QB's has been proven time and again to be based on a decision you make in advance based on how much you like the person, followed by a very peculiar, regularly self-contradictory set of arguments you try to concoct to justify that predetermined point.

The better question is why do some Jets fans accept endless streams of mediocrity as some sort of accomplishment, while the reason of the league laughs?

In 2003 he was great the first month and a half when he came back but eventually teams realized how only had 1 weapon in the pass game and when they took away Moss he and they struggled late.  2005 he played less than 3 games and he came back into the Jax game after again tearing his rotator cuff when his backup got hurt.  He came back in during the 4th qtr w/ the Jets trailing 20-14, he led us to 2 FGs and got the game to OT w/ a torn rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder and if my memory is correct(I know it is) Wayne Chrebet dropped a would be TD late in that game that would have won it in regulation.

2007 was his only bad prolonged stretch in his career.

the only years of his career he had more INts than TDs was his less than 3 game season of 2005(2-3) and his less than 3 game season in 2009 w/ Miami(1-2).

as far as more TDs than TOs? the only close to full season he had more total Tos than total TDs was 2006 where he led us to 10 wins and a playoff app w/ very little talent around him. 2002 he had more total TDs than TOs, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008.  do better research.

I am not attempting to cite awards he didn't get, I am stating a fact he was 2nd in league MVP voting in 2008.

I get being upset w/ him b/c he wasn't durable but it just amazes me how fans can forgive the iron man who for playing hurt and sabotaging a great SB chance in 2008 but will do nothing but bash a QB that played hurt and actually helped us win.

 

On ‎2‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 2:14 PM, CTM said:

You clearly don't understand how NFL pro bowl voting works. This year, the window was open from weeks 10-14, lets say the majority of votes occur around week 12. That means the last 4-5 games haven't even been played by the  time peak voting is occurring.

Now, in 2002 Chad had 22 TD, 6 INT and 3120 yards for the season, however he was only really pro bowl level at the end of the season when he closed the last 4 games with a 9/0 TD/INT ratio. In week 12 when voting may have peaked he had 11 TD and 5 INT and under 2000 yards. When voting closed he had 15 TD and 6 INT, and 2600 yards. This is good, but nowhere near probowl level.

The entire mythology of chad was basically built on a great 3-4 game run in 2002 that was never again duplicated.

I think the way they voted was different back then but regardless of that he belonged.  even heading into late 2002 he had resurrected the team and has us in contention while Bledsoe had a great start and was terrible the 2nd half of the year.  Chad was GREAT in 2002, only 1 QB was better that season and he won league MVP- Rich Gannon.

Chad had a 100 rating and we were 6-2 in 2004 before he tore his rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder.  To say he only had 2002 would be foolish but Jet fans.

[sourceworx]

20 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

lol.  Symptom of a true Penningtologist.  When all else fails, be condescending.  

[BurnleyJet]

Sad thing is, have we had a better QB than Chad since he left?

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Sad thing is, have we had a better QB than Chad since he left?

Yes.  Favre's 11 quality games in 2008 were more games of elite QB play than we ever got out of Pennington, 2002 included.  Before Favre tore his right bicep, the Jets were the # 1 offense in the NFL. 

Sad, eh?

[Bleedin Green]

6 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Sad thing is, have we had a better QB than Chad since he left?

I am nowhere close to a Sanchez fan, but I would take him over Chad far more often than not.  Sanchez had plenty of moments of mind-numbing stupidity, but also at least had those occasional flashes where he stepped it up and made some big plays.  Post 2002, Chad was kind of just... there.  He usually (but not always) wouldn't go and lose the game for the team, but he certainly wasn't going to lift the team up either.  He was basically just there, designed not to get in the way long as the defense and running game were in control.

[peebag]

On 2/10/2018 at 11:23 AM, jetsfansince7 said:

Ok champ.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Yea, Chadwick was teh awesome

 

[BurnleyJet]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

I am nowhere close to a Sanchez fan, but I would take him over Chad far more often than not.  Sanchez had plenty of moments of mind-numbing stupidity, but also at least had those occasional flashes where he stepped it up and made some big plays.  Post 2002, Chad was kind of just... there.  He usually (but not always) wouldn't go and lose the game for the team, but he certainly wasn't going to lift the team up either.  He was basically just there, designed not to get in the way long as the defense and running game were in control.

#67%

kind of proves my point in away, it's like having a room full of poor QB's and arguing who sucks the most.

It's time we drafted a new QB one who can play the postion well, we are due.

[nyjunc]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes.  Favre's 11 quality games in 2008 were more games of elite QB play than we ever got out of Pennington, 2002 included.  Before Favre tore his right bicep, the Jets were the # 1 offense in the NFL. 

Sad, eh?

I assume you are a comedy writer?  Favre was mostly awful pre injury excuse.  He had the one game against Ari which skewed his overall #s and a couple of games in November before the iron man tanked it and tanked our season.  a season w/ a great chance to get to a SB.  if we had Rex and Sanchez a year early we make a SB run.

2 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

I am nowhere close to a Sanchez fan, but I would take him over Chad far more often than not.  Sanchez had plenty of moments of mind-numbing stupidity, but also at least had those occasional flashes where he stepped it up and made some big plays.  Post 2002, Chad was kind of just... there.  He usually (but not always) wouldn't go and lose the game for the team, but he certainly wasn't going to lift the team up either.  He was basically just there, designed not to get in the way long as the defense and running game were in control.

Sanchez was a better postseason QB than Chad but Mark was better than many QBs in postseason.  I wish we had reg season Chad and postseason mark then we'd have something to really build on.

2 hours ago, peebag said:

Yea, Chadwick was teh awesome

 

his top weapon was young Ted Ginn who was terrible at the time.  Ginn is now a good 3/4 WR, he was his top weapon as a 2nd year player against that great Bal D.

Remember that team won ONE game a year earlier w/o Chad and would become an under .500 team again the next year when Chad got hurt and missed most of the season.

[Bleedin Green]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Remember that team won ONE game a year earlier w/o Chad and would become an under .500 team again the next year when Chad got hurt and missed most of the season.

While I really don't care about what Chad did in Miami, your attempts to use it continues to prove how absurd your narratives are, considering how heavily reliant the arguments are on blaming everyone else but him for failures.  Trying to use Miami's 2009 as some sort of evidence in support of Chad could not possibly be more wrong.  They were 0-3 with Pennington that year, and 7-6 with Henne.  That was the second time in three years the team did better with the backup than him.

[nyjunc]

2 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

While I really don't care about what Chad did in Miami, your attempts to use it continues to prove how absurd your narratives are, considering how heavily reliant the arguments are on blaming everyone else but him for failures.  Trying to use Miami's 2009 as some sort of evidence in support of Chad could not possibly be more wrong.  They were 0-3 with Pennington that year, and 7-6 with Henne.  That was the second time in three years the team did better with the backup than him.

They were 0-2 and Henne came into a 3-3 game.  in week 2 he led on long drive in final mutes to take 3 pt lead, D allowed late TD for the loss.

would it make you feel better to say:

from 2002-2007 Miami didn't make the playoffs

2008 Chad is full time starter and they make it

2009-2015 w/o Chad they didn't make it so Miami made the playoffs one time from 2002-2015 and coincidentally it was the one season Chad Pennington was their QB.

[Bleedin Green]

33 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

They were 0-2 and Henne came into a 3-3 game.  in week 2 he led on long drive in final mutes to take 3 pt lead, D allowed late TD for the loss.

would it make you feel better to say:

from 2002-2007 Miami didn't make the playoffs

2008 Chad is full time starter and they make it

2009-2015 w/o Chad they didn't make it so Miami made the playoffs one time from 2002-2015 and coincidentally it was the one season Chad Pennington was their QB.

Thank you for proving my point.  Once again you provide an endless list of excuses why his failures should be blamed on everyone else, while everyone else's success should be fully credited to him.  Do you understand how laughable to attempt to argue to evaluate a QB solely on wins, yet endlessly dismissing losses?  Funny thing is that all it takes is about a minute of your time to see that the differences between the 2007 and 2008 Miami teams was a substantial improvement in their scoring defense performance which went from 30th to 8th, not offense which only went from 26th to 21st.  In that 2009 season you are trying to praise Chad for his 3 sh*tty games, the offense continued to improve without Pennington, moving up to 15th in scoring, while the real difference was the D dropping back down to 25th.  Bottom line, other than your own little fictional narrative, none of the evidence supports your argument at all.

In the end though, I really don't give a crap about his time in Miami, despite how unbelievably mediocre it actually was.  Bottom line is that in the 5 years that followed the hope that sprang from his 2002 season, his own performance was mediocre at best.  And try as you might to constantly change the point of argument to whatever fits your narrative at the moment, neither his statistical performance nor the team record (which was a losing record with Chad post 2002) says otherwise.

Interesting to note, given how much you like citing a QB change as the sole reason for an improvement in a team's record, that would suggest that the Jets were immediately better without him, starting with Kellen Clemens and continuing on for years after that.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

Thank you for proving my point.  Once again you provide an endless list of excuses why his failures should be blamed on everyone else, while everyone else's success should be fully credited to him.  Do you understand how laughable to attempt to argue to evaluate a QB solely on wins, yet endlessly dismissing losses?  Funny thing is that all it takes is about a minute of your time to see that the differences between the 2007 and 2008 Miami teams was a substantial improvement in their scoring defense performance which went from 30th to 8th, not offense which only went from 26th to 21st.  In that 2009 season you are trying to praise Chad for his 3 sh*tty games, the offense continued to improve without Pennington, moving up to 15th in scoring, while the real difference was the D dropping back down to 25th.  Bottom line, other than your own little fictional narrative, none of the evidence supports your argument at all.

In the end though, I really don't give a crap about his time in Miami, despite how unbelievably mediocre it actually was.  Bottom line is that in the 5 years that followed the hope that sprang from his 2002 season, his own performance was mediocre at best.  And try as you might to constantly change the point of argument to whatever fits your narrative at the moment, neither his statistical performance nor the team record (which was a losing record with Chad post 2002) says otherwise.

Interesting to note, given how much you like citing a QB change as the sole reason for an improvement in a team's record, that would suggest that the Jets were immediately better without him, starting with Kellen Clemens and continuing on for years after that.

where am I dismissing losses?

so you don't think stabilizing the QB situation on offense helped make that defense better in 2008? maybe you should have taken more than a minute to look at things?

 

2007 D allowed 5475 yds, 2008 5264. a difference of 211 yards over 16 games. , 13 yds a game.  Huge difference?  you think 29 TOs compared 13 made a difference?  You think only 7 INts by the QB in 2008 compared to 16 the year before made any difference? Do you think those #s make a difference?  do you think all the extra points scored by the O made a difference and helped the defense?

 

I am not praising Chad for 2009, he barely played.

 

The facts remain, any season  Chad started at least 3/4 of games for his teams he led them to the playoffs.  That's not a coincidence.

2006 we were 10-6 w/ Chad, in 2007 we went 4-12. we had a slightly better record w/ Clemens for the games he started but were still under .500.  we had many more issues than just the QB.  remember we won div in 2002 then started 2-5 w/o Chad in 2003, made POs in 2004 then were a Chrebet dropped pass away from being 2-1 and we finished 4-12.  then a year later w/ healthy Chad we are 10-6.  we would have won the division and more if we didn't make the Favre trade.

 

[Bleedin Green]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

where am I dismissing losses?

so you don't think stabilizing the QB situation on offense helped make that defense better in 2008? maybe you should have taken more than a minute to look at things?

 

2007 D allowed 5475 yds, 2008 5264. a difference of 211 yards over 16 games. , 13 yds a game.  Huge difference?  you think 29 TOs compared 13 made a difference?  You think only 7 INts by the QB in 2008 compared to 16 the year before made any difference? Do you think those #s make a difference?  do you think all the extra points scored by the O made a difference and helped the defense?

Yards aren't points.  The defense improved significantly more than the offense.  This is a fact.

 

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

The facts remain, any season  Chad started at least 3/4 of games for his teams he led them to the playoffs.  That's not a coincidence.

2006 we were 10-6 w/ Chad, in 2007 we went 4-12. we had a slightly better record w/ Clemens for the games he started but were still under .500.  we had many more issues than just the QB.  remember we won div in 2002 then started 2-5 w/o Chad in 2003, made POs in 2004 then were a Chrebet dropped pass away from being 2-1 and we finished 4-12.  then a year later w/ healthy Chad we are 10-6.  we would have won the division and more if we didn't make the Favre trade.

The 3/4 season is a very curious option to be picked, specifically to fit your questionable narrative, as it is intentionally designed to dismiss the 2003 season where he played 10 games and had a losing record, and the 2007 season where he played 9 and got benched.  The Jets actually had a substantially better record with Clemens that year.  Quite literally three times better.  You try to twist it around all you like, but the bottom line is that after 2002, the Jets had a losing record with ole Penny boy.

Your last sentence 100% completely contradicts your entire argument in favor of Chad's 2008 season.  Based on the prior nonsense you've spewed about how a new QB is supposedly the sole credit for a team's record improvement that year, that would suggest that Favre (9-7) was a substantial upgrade over Pennington (1-7).

That is the ultimate bottom line of why you quite literally have to be wrong.  Your arguments constantly contradict each other to such extremes, you've made it impossible for anything you say to be accurate.

[JoJoTownsell1]

I'm like Mayfield, but prefer Darnold, but this is very impressive:

 

[CTM]

On 2/11/2018 at 8:19 AM, nyjunc said:

I think they voted was different back then but regardless of that he belonged.  even heading into late 2002 he had resurrected the team and has us in contention while Bledsoe had a great start and was terrible the 2nd half of the year.  Chad was GREAT in 2002, only 1 QB was better that season and he won league MVP- Rich Gannon.

Chad had a 100 rating and we were 6-2 in 2004 before he tore his rotator cuff in his throwing shoulder.  To say he only had 2002 would be foolish but Jet fans.

No, no it wasn't different back then.  It was pretty much the same.

The fact that you have to cull out 4 game stretches here and 6 game stretches there to prove Chad is a good QB should be your first clue that he's not.

Qb's that are actually good don't require the mental olympics you are performing here.

He was a conservative guy who played not to lose, in a league with more bad teams than good it's an effective strategy for appearing competent and keeping your floor around average. In reality his ceiling was also pretty low which is why all of his playoff runs ended with him looking like a child against grown men.

He wasn't a good player, get over it.

 

[nyjunc]

18 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Yards aren't points.  The defense improved significantly more than the offense.  This is a fact.

 

The 3/4 season is a very curious option to be picked, specifically to fit your questionable narrative, as it is intentionally designed to dismiss the 2003 season where he played 10 games and had a losing record, and the 2007 season where he played 9 and got benched.  The Jets actually had a substantially better record with Clemens that year.  Quite literally three times better.  You try to twist it around all you like, but the bottom line is that after 2002, the Jets had a losing record with ole Penny boy.

Your last sentence 100% completely contradicts your entire argument in favor of Chad's 2008 season.  Based on the prior nonsense you've spewed about how a new QB is supposedly the sole credit for a team's record improvement that year, that would suggest that Favre (9-7) was a substantial upgrade over Pennington (1-7).

That is the ultimate bottom line of why you quite literally have to be wrong.  Your arguments constantly contradict each other to such extremes, you've made it impossible for anything you say to be accurate.

Again, 29 Turnovers in 2007 compared to 13 in 2008, 7 INTs by the QB in 2008 compared to 16 in 2007.  do you not understand why this would help a defense?

In 2003 w/o Chad they started 2-5, w/ him they went 4-5. among those 4 wins was against 12-4 Tennessee who was 9-2 at the time.  some other tidbits from that season:

He led them to a win at Oakland, only the 2nd in our franchise history.  Yes the Raiders stunk but this was the game where Oakland had a 19 play, 11 minute TD drive where they ran EVERY SINGLE PLAY.  Oakland had the ball for 38 minutes that game, we trailed by 8 w/ about 3 mins left.  Chad led a TD drive and converted the 2 pts for the tie to send it to OT.  In OT we got the ball first and scored to end it w/o giving Oak a chance.

vs. NYG we trailed 28-14 in the 4th, Chad threw 2 TD passes to send it to OT. In Ot he led a drive to set up a potential GW FG. we botched the snap/hold and it was blocked setting up NYGs GW FG.

We lost a 38-31 game at Indianapolis

w/o Chad we got crushed by the dolphins in week 2.  w/ him in week 17 we lost on a last second FG and it's a game that would have gone to OT but we got screwed on our 2 pt conversion on our last TD. 

2007 was his only bad season and Clemens had 2 more wins than Chad as starter- that is substantially better?

Ok so we went from 4 wins in 2008 to 9 w/ Favre.  Miami went from 1 win in 2007 to 11 w/ Chad.  Chad gets the edge, right?

We had a completely different team in 2008, we spent a boatload and brought in a ton of talent, most importantly upgrading the OL from one of the worst to one of the best. The difference btw NYJ and Mia in 20008 was at QB./  if we don't make the Favre trade we easily win the div and more but we did and watched Favre sabotage our season as Chad led his tam w/ half the talent of the Jets to a division title.

2001-current.  Tom Brady and the Pats have won all but 2 AFC East titles, the 2 AFC East titles not one by Brady were both led by Chad Pennington.

 

2002-2007 Jets with Chad starting: 32-29, 3 playoff apps, 1 div title, 2 playoff wins

2002-2007 Jets w/o Chad starting: 11-25

I'm sorry this fact bothers you so much.

 

13 hours ago, CTM said:

No, no it wasn't different back then.  It was pretty much the same.

The fact that you have to cull out 4 game stretches here and 6 game stretches there to prove Chad is a good QB should be your first clue that he's not.

Qb's that are actually good don't require the mental olympics you are performing here.

He was a conservative guy who played not to lose, in a league with more bad teams than good it's an effective strategy for appearing competent and keeping your floor around average. In reality his ceiling was also pretty low which is why all of his playoff runs ended with him looking like a child against grown men.

He wasn't a good player, get over it.

 

I think it was different as far as fans voting, it still came out before the season ended but Chad obviously belonged.  He was the 2nd best QB in football that year behind only Gannon and he helped bring us back from 1-4 to win a division title which is even more impressive looking back as the ONLY non Brady div title since then.

The biggest difference was players back then actually went to the pro bowl where today they often decline so QBs like Eli Manning get 2 extra PB apps even though he didn't deserve it.

did he look like a child when he went into Foxboro and outdueled Brady in week 16 of 2002 which ultimately made the difference in winning the div title?

did he look like a child when he led the Jets to a 42-17 win over 12-3 GB and the great Brett favre?  you do know that if GB had won that game they would have had the 1 seed in the NFC, instead they played in the WC rd.

did he look like a child leading his tam to a 41-0 win over the great Peyton Manning?  has Chad ever led a team to 0 pts in a playoff game?

did he look like a child throwing that bomb to Moss in the playoff win at SD against Brees and the Chargers?

 

Only Jet fans can celebrate a guy who sabotaged our season in 2008 and bash a guy that helped us win.

[Bleedin Green]

18 hours ago, nyjunc said:

where am I dismissing losses?

See below:

15 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Again, 29 Turnovers in 2007 compared to 13 in 2008, 7 INTs by the QB in 2008 compared to 16 in 2007.  do you not understand why this would help a defense?

In 2003 w/o Chad they started 2-5, w/ him they went 4-5. among those 4 wins was against 12-4 Tennessee who was 9-2 at the time.  some other tidbits from that season:

He led them to a win at Oakland, only the 2nd in our franchise history.  Yes the Raiders stunk but this was the game where Oakland had a 19 play, 11 minute TD drive where they ran EVERY SINGLE PLAY.  Oakland had the ball for 38 minutes that game, we trailed by 8 w/ about 3 mins left.  Chad led a TD drive and converted the 2 pts for the tie to send it to OT.  In OT we got the ball first and scored to end it w/o giving Oak a chance.

vs. NYG we trailed 28-14 in the 4th, Chad threw 2 TD passes to send it to OT. In Ot he led a drive to set up a potential GW FG. we botched the snap/hold and it was blocked setting up NYGs GW FG.

We lost a 38-31 game at Indianapolis

w/o Chad we got crushed by the dolphins in week 2.  w/ him in week 17 we lost on a last second FG and it's a game that would have gone to OT but we got screwed on our 2 pt conversion on our last TD. 

2007 was his only bad season and Clemens had 2 more wins than Chad as starter- that is substantially better?

Ok so we went from 4 wins in 2008 to 9 w/ Favre.  Miami went from 1 win in 2007 to 11 w/ Chad.  Chad gets the edge, right?

We had a completely different team in 2008, we spent a boatload and brought in a ton of talent, most importantly upgrading the OL from one of the worst to one of the best. The difference btw NYJ and Mia in 20008 was at QB./  if we don't make the Favre trade we easily win the div and more but we did and watched Favre sabotage our season as Chad led his tam w/ half the talent of the Jets to a division title.

2001-current.  Tom Brady and the Pats have won all but 2 AFC East titles, the 2 AFC East titles not one by Brady were both led by Chad Pennington.

 

2002-2007 Jets with Chad starting: 32-29, 3 playoff apps, 1 div title, 2 playoff wins

2002-2007 Jets w/o Chad starting: 11-25

I'm sorry this fact bothers you so much.

 

I think it was different as far as fans voting, it still came out before the season ended but Chad obviously belonged.  He was the 2nd best QB in football that year behind only Gannon and he helped bring us back from 1-4 to win a division title which is even more impressive looking back as the ONLY non Brady div title since then.

The biggest difference was players back then actually went to the pro bowl where today they often decline so QBs like Eli Manning get 2 extra PB apps even though he didn't deserve it.

did he look like a child when he went into Foxboro and outdueled Brady in week 16 of 2002 which ultimately made the difference in winning the div title?

did he look like a child when he led the Jets to a 42-17 win over 12-3 GB and the great Brett favre?  you do know that if GB had won that game they would have had the 1 seed in the NFC, instead they played in the WC rd.

did he look like a child leading his tam to a 41-0 win over the great Peyton Manning?  has Chad ever led a team to 0 pts in a playoff game?

did he look like a child throwing that bomb to Moss in the playoff win at SD against Brees and the Chargers?

 

Only Jet fans can celebrate a guy who sabotaged our season in 2008 and bash a guy that helped us win.

You wrote a lot, yet the entire argument is cherry picking the occasional positives and dismissing the overwhelming majority of negatives.  This list is you trying to come up with every individual thing you can say as a positive about him, to the ridiculous point of literally citing single plays.  If your argument had validity to it, you wouldn't have a need to blindly focus in on individual moments, that are so heavily dependent on dismissing everything that happened around those moments.

Chad had one good season with the Jets in 2002, and was mediocre for 5 years to follow, a position that is supported by every statistic, from his own passing numbers to the losing record over those 5 years you look to give him sole credit for.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Bleedin Green said:

See below:

You wrote a lot, yet the entire argument is cherry picking the occasional positives and dismissing the overwhelming majority of negatives.  This list is you trying to come up with every individual thing you can say as a positive about him, to the ridiculous point of literally citing single plays.  If your argument had validity to it, you wouldn't have a need to blindly focus in on individual moments, that are so heavily dependent on dismissing everything that happened around those moments.

Chad had one good season with the Jets in 2002, and was mediocre for 5 years to follow, a position that is supported by every statistic, from his own passing numbers to the losing record over those 5 years you look to give him sole credit for.

cherry picking:

32-29 w/ Chad, 11-25 w/o.

 

that includes every game played btw the season he became starter and his last season starting for us but yeah I'm cherry picking. the only season the team had a better record w/o him was 2007 when we were 3-5 w/o him.  that team was a disaster, in 2004 we had a winning record w/o him as we were 2-1, in the 2 wins our offense scored 10 points to win one and 13 to win the other. 

Nowhere have I said Chad was great and didn't have faults.  No he was not Tom Brady but he was one of the better QBs in this league when healthy.  Only Rich Gannon was better in 2002, he was on his way to a top performance in 2004 before the injury and still helped us reach div rd after the injury.  His biggest issue was health, his body wasn't meant to play football at that level.  if Chad is durable we would have won a lot more games and maybe even a SB but please keep telling me how great Brett favre was and bash someone who was better as a Jet and di much more for our franchise(to be fair it's not hard to do more than nothing).

Chad had one GREAST season, the 2nd greatest season in Jets history trailing only Vinny 1998.  did he reach that level again?  he was on his way in 2004 before the injury w/ a 100 rating and leading the team to a 6-1 record pre injury but no he never would reach that level in a full season again.  it doesn't mean he still wasn't good for us even w/ all the injuries.  it was frustrating losing seasons b/c he couldn't stay healthy and that's why they moved him more than anything else but still the good far outweighed the bad in the time he was here.

[jgb]

Noodle brain!

[Bleedin Green]

Just now, nyjunc said:

cherry picking:

32-29 w/ Chad, 11-25 w/o.

You got one line in, and your argument is already invalid.  This supposed comparison includes the likes of comparing Chad's 2002 season to Clemens' 2007 season.  That could not possibly be more irrelevant.

I have proven you wrong on this record matter countless times in the past, as when comparing the record of the Jets with Chad and without Chad in the same year, 2002 is the only one in which the record with Chad was significantly better.  The rest were pretty comparable, with some seasons where Chad had a slightly better record (2003, 2005) and others where the backups did (2004, 2007).  I know you'll have an endless list of excuses as to why those don't really count given that they don't fit your narrative, but it's simply worth pointing out, considering you're the one falsely attempting to use it as some sort of positive proof of Chad's performance in any year other than 2002.

[nyjunc]

18 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

You got one line in, and your argument is already invalid.  This supposed comparison includes the likes of comparing Chad's 2002 season to Clemens' 2007 season.  That could not possibly be more irrelevant.

I have proven you wrong on this record matter countless times in the past, as when comparing the record of the Jets with Chad and without Chad in the same year, 2002 is the only one in which the record with Chad was significantly better.  The rest were pretty comparable, with some seasons where Chad had a slightly better record (2003, 2005) and others where the backups did (2004, 2007).  I know you'll have an endless list of excuses as to why those don't really count given that they don't fit your narrative, but it's simply worth pointing out, considering you're the one falsely attempting to use it as some sort of positive proof of Chad's performance in any year other than 2002.

2002:

w/o: 1-4

w/: 8-3(1-1) playoffs

2003:

w/o: 2-5

w/: 4-5

2004:

w/o 2-1

w/ 8-5

2005:

w/o 3-10

w 1-2

2007:

w/o 3-5

w/ 1-5

 

so basically the only year we really did better w/o him was 2007 and we were a whopping 3-5.

 

 

but you know, you are right.  obviously the best Qb we have had since Joe have been the great ken O'Brien, 2008 Brett favre and Ryan Fitzpatrick. guys like Vinny, Chad, Sanchez were all bums.  You have convinced me w/ your incredible debating skills.

[TuscanyTile2]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:56 PM, CTM said:

No, no it wasn't different back then.  It was pretty much the same.

The fact that you have to cull out 4 game stretches here and 6 game stretches there to prove Chad is a good QB should be your first clue that he's not.

Qb's that are actually good don't require the mental olympics you are performing here.

He was a conservative guy who played not to lose, in a league with more bad teams than good it's an effective strategy for appearing competent and keeping your floor around average. In reality his ceiling was also pretty low which is why all of his playoff runs ended with him looking like a child against grown men.

He wasn't a good player, get over it.

 

Well said!  The whole post but especially the stuff in bold!

Makes me think back to his playoff game with the Dolphins against the Ravens.  Against men (the Ravens' defense) he looked like a little boy.  He threw only 7 INTs during the regular season that year but threw 4 in 22 minutes in that game.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/recap?gameId=290104015

 

[Bleedin Green]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

2002:

w/o: 1-4

w/: 8-3(1-1) playoffs

2003:

w/o: 2-5

w/: 4-5

2004:

w/o 2-1

w/ 8-5

2005:

w/o 3-10

w 1-2

2007:

w/o 3-5

w/ 1-5

 

so basically the only year we really did better w/o him was 2007 and we were a whopping 3-5.

 

 

but you know, you are right.  obviously the best Qb we have had since Joe have been the great ken O'Brien, 2008 Brett favre and Ryan Fitzpatrick. guys like Vinny, Chad, Sanchez were all bums.  You have convinced me w/ your incredible debating skills.

Actually no, the point is the only year the Jets saw more than a slight difference in record with or without Chad was 2002, which you just so clearly presented to us all.  Thanks for that.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Actually no, the point is the only year the Jets saw more than a slight difference in record with or without Chad was 2002, which you just so clearly presented to us all.  Thanks for that.

just to clarify, 2 more wins and 2 more losses w/o Chad in 2007 means "the Jets actually had a substantially better record" but 2 more wins w/ same amount of losses in 2003 it was just "a slight difference in record". 

it's fun debating w/ you.