Ex-Jet Chad Pennington shares insight on Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

just to clarify, 2 more wins and 2 more losses w/o Chad in 2007 means "the Jets actually had a substantially better record" but 2 more wins w/ same amount of losses in 2003 it was just "a slight difference in record". 

it's fun debating w/ you.

Well your 2007 numbers are a lie, so that's probably an issue there.  Unless the NFL had a shortened season that year that no one but you knows about.  Quite convenient that the games you decided to dismiss from those number were all losses with Chad.  I also actually said that "a slight difference in record" applied to every year but 2002, not specifically 2003, so that's blatant lie number 2 in your argument.

However, if you really cared to make such an argument, triple the amount of wins in less games (2007) is statistically more significant than double the wins in more games (2003).

[nyjunc]

18 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Well your 2007 numbers are a lie, so that's probably an issue there.  Unless the NFL had a shortened season that year that no one but you knows about.  Quite convenient that the games you decided to dismiss from those number were all losses with Chad.  I also actually said that "a slight difference in record" applied to every year but 2002, not specifically 2003, so that's blatant lie number 2 in your argument.

However, if you really cared to make such an argument, triple the amount of wins in less games (2007) is statistically more significant than double the wins in more games (2003).

my mistake on the wording.  2 more wins and 2 less losses w/o Chad in 2007. we were 3-5 w/ Clemens, 1-7 w/ Chad.  AGAIN, the only bad stretch for Chad in his entire career.  either way the point still stands.  You said the Jets "were substantially better" w/o him in 2007 w/ a 2 game difference and then said it was a slight difference in other years which just wasn't true but when you have nothing you make things up.

[nyjunc]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 2:59 PM, Bleedin Green said:

Yards aren't points.  The defense improved significantly more than the offense.  This is a fact.

 

The 3/4 season is a very curious option to be picked, specifically to fit your questionable narrative, as it is intentionally designed to dismiss the 2003 season where he played 10 games and had a losing record, and the 2007 season where he played 9 and got benched.  The Jets actually had a substantially better record with Clemens that year.  Quite literally three times better.  You try to twist it around all you like, but the bottom line is that after 2002, the Jets had a losing record with ole Penny boy.

Your last sentence 100% completely contradicts your entire argument in favor of Chad's 2008 season.  Based on the prior nonsense you've spewed about how a new QB is supposedly the sole credit for a team's record improvement that year, that would suggest that Favre (9-7) was a substantial upgrade over Pennington (1-7).

That is the ultimate bottom line of why you quite literally have to be wrong.  Your arguments constantly contradict each other to such extremes, you've made it impossible for anything you say to be accurate.

just in case you forgot you  posted this nonsense.

[bitonti]

Jets fans are debating these players like they will have a choice 

if one or the other makes it to 6 you take the one that makes it.

They probably both aren't going to be there at 6. If they are it's a nice problem to have. But that's not how Jets' draft luck goes 

[bitonti]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:56 PM, CTM said:

In reality his ceiling was also pretty low which is why all of his playoff runs ended with him looking like a child against grown men.

He wasn't a good player, get over it.

1

well said and deep down this is why Baker Mayfield might actually make it to 6.  NFL GMs don't really love the Chads, the hard luck walk ons maximizing their limited athletic gifts. They like the Josh Allens who are the physical ideal and have gifts to spare. Baker Mayfield a two time walk on isn't limited like Chad (no arm strength, lumbering clown feet) but he does have limitations. I hope he falls and wouldn't trade up. Make the other teams be brave it's harder than it seems. 

 

side note if we are reading between the lines, Chad seemed jealous of Josh Allen's physical gifts. Like if he had Allen's skillset with his brain he'd be GOAT. Which isn't that crazy of an idea. 

[Bleedin Green]

2 hours ago, nyjunc said:

my mistake on the wording.  2 more wins and 2 less losses w/o Chad in 2007. we were 3-5 w/ Clemens, 1-7 w/ Chad.  AGAIN, the only bad stretch for Chad in his entire career.  either way the point still stands.  You said the Jets "were substantially better" w/o him in 2007 w/ a 2 game difference and then said it was a slight difference in other years which just wasn't true but when you have nothing you make things up.

37.5% >>>>>>>> 12.5%.  And that's even when attributing a loss to Clemens when he played one snap and Chad played the rest of the game, despite your prior attempts to take losses off of Chad's record when he played the majority, or sometimes even the entirety, of a game.  The funny thing is you're only now attempting to make this argument after I simplified the matter by calling all post-2002 seasons, including 2007, to be comparable.  You would have been better off accepting my generous gift to you, rather than insisting on proving yourself even more wrong.

Of course this is really just your desperate attempt to divert from the fact that 2002 is the only year in Chad's career where the team had more than a marginally better record with him than any other QB's on the roster.  You so generously provided the numbers that prove this as an indisputable point of fact, regardless of what excuses you want to make.

[flgreen]

On 2/8/2018 at 6:50 AM, nyjunc said:

Chad

 career was about health.  when relatively healthy we made the playoffs. It's not his fault he didn't have an NFL body.  when he started at least 3/4 of games his teams made the playoffs.  He is the ONLY QB in the Brady era to win an AFC east title besides Brady which includes 1 for us and 1 for Miami where he took over a 1 win team and led them to a div title while we got Brett favre to sabotage what could have been a SB season in a down AFC and NFL. It's just Jets luck that we finally had a young franchise QB and he couldn't stay healthy.

And this is the main reason I don't want Rosen

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

37.5% >>>>>>>> 12.5%.  And that's even when attributing a loss to Clemens when he played one snap and Chad played the rest of the game, despite your prior attempts to take losses off of Chad's record when he played the majority, or sometimes even the entirety, of a game.  The funny thing is you're only now attempting to make this argument after I simplified the matter by calling all post-2002 seasons, including 2007, to be comparable.  You would have been better off accepting my generous gift to you, rather than insisting on proving yourself even more wrong.

Of course this is really just your desperate attempt to divert from the fact that 2002 is the only year in Chad's career where the team had more than a marginally better record with him than any other QB's on the roster.  You so generously provided the numbers that prove this as an indisputable point of fact, regardless of what excuses you want to make.

I apologize, I didn't realize this was all a goof.  I thought you were serious but that's impossible reading these posts. I'm sorry I got sucked in and took you serious when it's obvious you were just joking.

 

Obviously had Clemens attempted more than one pass at NE the Jets easily would have won

we'll count NE for Chad then, so he was 1-8, KC 3-4.

Now let's look at records of teams Chad faced vs. Clemens:

Chad opponents: 83-62, 3 games against SB teams, 2 games against a 16-0 team, 4 games against PO teams. Outside of 1 game against 1-15 Miami the worst team he faced won 7 games.

Clemens: 52-60, faced 3 PO teams, none that won a playoff game, 3 of the teams he faced were 5-11 or worse.

 

you think this made any difference?

 

 

 

 

[Bleedin Green]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

I apologize, I didn't realize this was all a goof.  I thought you were serious but that's impossible reading these posts. I'm sorry I got sucked in and took you serious when it's obvious you were just joking.

 

Obviously had Clemens attempted more than one pass at NE the Jets easily would have won

we'll count NE for Chad then, so he was 1-8, KC 3-4.

Now let's look at records of teams Chad faced vs. Clemens:

Chad opponents: 83-62, 3 games against SB teams, 2 games against a 16-0 team, 4 games against PO teams. Outside of 1 game against 1-15 Miami the worst team he faced won 7 games.

Clemens: 52-60, faced 3 PO teams, none that won a playoff game, 3 of the teams he faced were 5-11 or worse.

 

you think this made any difference?

 

 

 

 

So... excuses.  Got it. I really look forward to hearing the excuses for the comparable Chad/Other QB records in 2003, 2004, and 2005.  Excuses which of course only apply to Chad and no other QB in NFL history.

[slats]

I'm so glad we can keep this Chad Pennington debate alive. Each post is so fresh and new. 

 

[Philc1]

I want to know Mark Sanchez’s opinion of Mayfield because they are going to be carbon copies of eachother in the nfl

[Bleedin Green]

28 minutes ago, slats said:

I'm so glad we can keep this Chad Pennington debate alive. Each post is so fresh and new. 

 

Well I'm so glad we can keep your stupid... thing... shut up!

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

I want to know Mark Sanchez’s opinion of Mayfield because they are going to be carbon copies of eachother in the nfl

Care to elaborate?

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Mayock ranking Josh Allen ahead of Rosen... interesting.

[nyjunc]

18 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

So... excuses.  Got it. I really look forward to hearing the excuses for the comparable Chad/Other QB records in 2003, 2004, and 2005.  Excuses which of course only apply to Chad and no other QB in NFL history.

I am discussing reality and I said he stunk in 2007 but I also said that was his only bad season which is also true. 

ummm. 2003-2005 the Jets were 7-16 w/o Chad starting and 13-12 w/ him.  13-12 isn't spectacular but it's "substantially better" than 7-16, right?

 

17 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I want to know Mark Sanchez’s opinion of Mayfield because they are going to be carbon copies of eachother in the nfl

so we'll have 2 legitimate cracks at the SB?  sign me up.

[Jetsplayer21]

Chad Would be proud. He was a career jag but yet we have 4 pages of what he thinks about the qb prospects .? 

   Somebody needs to get arrested again I think lol

[Bleedin Green]

3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I am discussing reality and I said he stunk in 2007 but I also said that was his only bad season which is also true. 

ummm. 2003-2005 the Jets were 7-16 w/o Chad starting and 13-12 w/ him.  13-12 isn't spectacular but it's "substantially better" than 7-16, right?

 

so we'll have 2 legitimate cracks at the SB?  sign me up.

Ah there we go, classic Junk logic, changing the criteria until it meets your needs, regardless of how little sense it makes.  Meaningless comparison of different seasons is meaningless.  2003:  Chad 4-6 (40%), Vinny 2-5 (28%), 2004:  Chad: 8-5 (61%), Carter: 2-1 (66%), 2005: Chad 1-2 (33%), Bollywood/Vinny: 3-10 (30%).

I look forward to your next excuse-ridden rant as to why certain only select numbers count when they are in Chad's favor, but those same numbers immediately don't count when they aren't.  You will then conveniently ignore the fact that the endless excuses could be applied to all QB's, completely invalidating your argument when attempting to only apply them to the one that suits your agenda.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Ah there we go, classic Junk logic, changing the criteria until it meets your needs, regardless of how little sense it makes.  Meaningless comparison of different seasons is meaningless.  2003:  Chad 4-6 (40%), Vinny 2-5 (28%), 2004:  Chad: 8-5 (61%), Carter: 2-1 (66%), 2005: Chad 1-2 (33%), Bollywood/Vinny: 3-10 (30%).

I look forward to your next excuse-ridden rant as to why certain only select numbers count when they are in Chad's favor, but those same numbers immediately don't count when they aren't.  You will then conveniently ignore the fact that the endless excuses could be applied to all QB's, completely invalidating your argument when attempting to only apply them to the one that suits your agenda.

2003 we were 4-5 w/ Chad which is better than 2-5, right?

2004 we only played 3 games w/o him.  we went 2-1, our defense gave up a TOTAL of 10 points in the 2 wins.  

the only 2 years we were better w/o him were 2004 and 2007 and 2004 we only played 3 games and 2 of them against awful teams that scored a combined 10 pts against us but why let some context get in the way of an insane argument from a typical Jet fan?

 

fans like you are why we deserve Todd Bowles and all we have seen post 2010.

[nyjunc]

5 hours ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Chad Would be proud. He was a career jag but yet we have 4 pages of what he thinks about the qb prospects .? 

   Somebody needs to get arrested again I think lol

He's the only starting QB in Jets history to start postseason games in 3 different postseasons and he's also the only starting QB in Jets history to win both a home and road playoff game yet we treat him like we should treat Favre and treat Favre like we should treat Chad. apparently Jet fans are mesmerized by watching a QB throw INts and sabotage a legit SB chance more than they are actually winning.

[Bleedin Green]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

2003 we were 4-5 w/ Chad which is better than 2-5, right?

2004 we only played 3 games w/o him.  we went 2-1, our defense gave up a TOTAL of 10 points in the 2 wins.  

the only 2 years we were better w/o him were 2004 and 2007 and 2004 we only played 3 games and 2 of them against awful teams that scored a combined 10 pts against us but why let some context get in the way of an insane argument from a typical Jet fan?

 

fans like you are why we deserve Todd Bowles and all we have seen post 2010.

Thank you for doing exactly what I said you would do, and ultimately proving me right.  Job well done.

[nyjunc]

16 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Thank you for doing exactly what I said you would do, and ultimately proving me right.  Job well done.

In our next debate can you provide somewhat of a challenge? this one was too easy.

[Jetsplayer21]

33 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He's the only starting QB in Jets history to start postseason games in 3 different postseasons and he's also the only starting QB in Jets history to win both a home and road playoff game yet we treat him like we should treat Favre and treat Favre like we should treat Chad. apparently Jet fans are mesmerized by watching a QB throw INts and sabotage a legit SB chance more than they are actually winning.

I don’t get the whole farve thing. Farve was a top 10 all time qb, but he was old and playing hurt 1 yr he was here. It’s too bad we didn’t have him in 09 when we had a shot to win super bowl. He was in contention for League MVP playing for Vikings , and we had mark Sanchez ?

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

In our next debate can you provide somewhat of a challenge? this one was too easy.

You want me to take it more difficult to prove you wrong?  Kind of tricky to do when you literally prove yourself wrong from one sentence to the next in every post.

[flgreen]

7 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

You want me to take it more difficult to prove you wrong?  Kind of tricky to do when you literally prove yourself wrong from one sentence to the next in every post.

TL;DR

[naturalscience]

On 2/7/2018 at 5:17 PM, Larz said:

Thank God at least one thread didn't get detailed into a tired old argument about why we hate Jets players 

Coach sucks gm sucks owner sucks all our players wouldn't make another teams practice squad.

There we go. That's better.