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Rudolph: One of the Most Overrated in this coming Draft Class?

Warfish

By Warfish
in NY Jets Forum

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slats

slats

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, HessStation said:

The way I see this whole first round is:

 

...if they don't sign Cousins they need to..

  • Draft one of either Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson or Allen at #6
  • Trade up to #3 to land Rosen or Darnold if either is still there

 

...if they do sign Cousins they need to...

  • Draft Nelson, Barkley or Chubb

Outside of this drafting a guard at #6 overall nonsense, I agree completely. I'm fine with them dropping out of the Cousins' sweepstakes if the price gets too high (which I suspect Mac will), but they have to seriously address the QB position this year. Too many opportunities here to completely whiff at the position. 

56 minutes ago, jetspenguin said:

if they dont sign Cousins moving up to 3 seems to be a waste of draft picks....who else is worth moving up for?

The hope is that your professional NFL talent evaluation team is capable of whittling down a top five into a top three and ensuring yourself a shot at one of those top three. I'd be in constant communication with Indy about my potential desire to move up to three so that some parameters are in place when I'm ready to pull the trigger. And I'd be ready the moment it's announced that Cousins has signed elsewhere. 

Remember, the Eagles moved twice to get to #2 and take Carson Wentz. Once the Jets are at #3, it'll be easier to move up one or two slots to grab their #1 or 2 guy. It's entirely possible that Cleveland is thinking #4 overall for their QB, and that the Giants aren't thinking QB at all. You gotta be in it to win it. 

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HessStation

HessStation

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14 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

People are saying Rudolph has a weak arm but also calling him Bryce Petty.  Gee That’s not contradictory and untrue

I don't follow. What is your point?

Both have average to good arms. To what degree, it's subjective anyway...but it's similar rhetoric... the point is neither have cannons and there's been some concerns pending the source. A lot of, "can make NFL throws when necessary", "shows flashes at times but inconsistent arm strength" etc etc.


Arm strength was/is not considered a strength for either is the bottom line.  

 

   

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Philc1

Philc1

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Just now, HessStation said:

I don't follow. What is your point?

Both have average to good arms. To what degree, it's subjective anyway...but it's similar rhetoric... the point is neither have cannons and there's been some concerns pending the source. A lot of, "can make NFL throws when necessary", "shows flashes at times but inconsistent arm strength" etc etc.


Arm strength was/is not considered a strength for either is the bottom line.  

 

   

And Rudolph has more than enough arm strength to be successful in the NFL. Rudolph was statistically the best qb in college last year yet the criticisms are comical “oh he plays in the spread”  so does everyone else

 

 

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HessStation

HessStation

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25 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

And Rudolph has more than enough arm strength to be successful in the NFL. Rudolph was statistically the best qb in college last year yet the criticisms are comical “oh he plays in the spread”  so does everyone else

 

 

There are some concerns with his arm strength. If there wasn't he'd probably be top 3.

you switched gears to stats which no one can argue. The question there is system and surrounding talent, accuracy at times. 

Hence the comparisons to Petty right now.

 

 

 

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Pointdexter

Pointdexter

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Some of this is the eye test. I must admit that I watched a lot of ok st last yr and felt on numerous occasions that Rudolph's throws took a long time to get where they were going. Passes lacked a lot of zip. Not saying he doesn't have the capability of a strong arm, just that it doesn't bear out in his game.

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Warfish

Warfish

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21 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

And Rudolph has more than enough arm strength to be successful in the NFL. Rudolph was statistically the best qb in college last year yet the criticisms are comical “oh he plays in the spread”  so does everyone else

Was he?

Completions - 6th (Mike White, Western KY #1)
Attempts - 7th (Tyler Rodgers, New Mex. St #1)
Comp. % - 15th (Baker Mayfield, Okla. #1)
Yards - 1st
Yards Per Attempt - 3rd (Baker Mayfield, Okla #1)
TD Passes - 5th (Drew Lock, Missouri #1, Baker Mayfield #2)
INT's - Tied 55th (Jalen Hurts #1 with 1, Baker Mayfield Tied #20 with 6)
QB Rating - 3rd (Baker Mayfield #1)

He was the leading passer in yards, and.....that's about it.

In overall statistics, Baker Mayfield surpassed him.  More accurate, more yards per pass, more TD's on fewer attempts, less INT's.

Rudolph certainly had a very productive college season, but lets not overstate shall we.
 

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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2 hours ago, HessStation said:

Even taking out my own personal opinion, every single evaluation on Rudolph says weak arm. 

Never heard that and I dont see it being weak when I've watched him play.  No where near it.

2 hours ago, HessStation said:

And also, In Bit's defense, trying to guess where a player is getting picked is a crapshoot and all it takes is one team. EJ Manuel for example. 

I mocked Leonard Fournette and Cam Robinson to the Jags in JN's annual mock draft, what?

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HessStation

HessStation

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On Rudolph's arm strength...for me wathing a few times, I never thought wow, he doesn't have the arm strength but I'd agree with the PPF quote that it seems to come and go. 

Walter Camp - "average arm strength."

Robert Quinn USA Today - "He’s got a strong enough arm"

PFF - "Arm strength comes and goes"

Area Scout per Breer -"Arm strength is adequate, not tops"

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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27 minutes ago, HessStation said:

On Rudolph's arm strength...for me wathing a few times, I never thought wow, he doesn't have the arm strength but I'd agree with the PPF quote that it seems to come and go. 

Walter Camp - "average arm strength."

Robert Quinn USA Today - "He’s got a strong enough arm"

PFF - "Arm strength comes and goes"

Area Scout per Breer -"Arm strength is adequate, not tops"

He hurt his shoulder mid season which might be why it comes and goes.  He definitely didnt have the same ball at the end of the season but looked fine in the Bowl game after it had a month to heal.  I dont watch Rudolph and see any concern with is arm strength.   

But yeah, I'm reading similar takes on him which is weird, I remember this time last year him being thought of having one of the better arms of this class.  Maybe the shoulder thing has people only remembering the end of the season when it was obviously in pain?

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JustInFudge

JustInFudge

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Just now, The Crusher said:

Hmmmm, interesting . Im not versed enough to discredit this. Interesting . 

It's tough to discredit, period.  There isnt much difference here other than one guy gets super excited and runs around the field flailing his arms around like a child after every TD and the other guy doesnt.

No but seriously, gun to head.  If you're giving me the choice of Mayfield at 6 vs. Rudolph in the 2nd, I'll take the BAP player at 6 coupled with Rudolph in the 2nd > Mayfield at 6.

 

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HessStation

HessStation

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1 minute ago, The Crusher said:

Hmmmm, interesting . Im not versed enough to discredit this. Interesting . 

Indeed. Check this out. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000870688/article/ask-5-wholl-be-a-better-pro-baker-mayfield-or-mason-rudolph

Executive 1: Mayfield
"This is an easy one. I'd go with Mayfield. He has a better arm, he's more accurate and I love his leadership traits. Rudolph has better size, but when your turn on the tape, it's not close."

Executive 2: Mayfield
"(Mayfield) has excellent command and he sees the field so much better (than Rudolph)."

Executive 3: Rudolph
"I love Mayfield. He's fun to watch and he's a winner, but I think Rudolph will be the better pro. He has good size, plenty of arm and he's a better athlete than people think."

Executive 4: Rudolph
"Mayfield is an incredible competitor, but his size, lack of accuracy down the field and decision making worry me. Rudolph has some issues, too, but he takes better care of the ball, he's more accurate down the field and he has a better arm. He does need to go through his progressions quicker and be better in the red zone, but I'd still take him over Mayfield."

Executive 5: Mayfield
"Mayfield is a better athlete, has more arm strength, he's more accurate and he is a much better playmaker."

Summary: That's three votes for Mayfield and two for Rudolph.

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T0mShane

T0mShane

Posted
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Ye olde Twitter-scout-o-Rama 

 

February 11: “Here are five gif’s showing you how bad this QB is. Count me out.” 

 

April 11: “People are way overrating this prospect. Surely a smokescreen.” 

 

May 1: “I’m giving this draft a D-. They took that prospect way too early.”

 

November 11: “I’ll admit I was a little skeptical, but I said if he was put in the right system he’d be able to perform. Surprised so many missed on him.” 

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SMC

SMC

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Actually, until Rudolph is drafted, we won't know if he is under, over or properly rated.

Right now, sources for these reports are talking out of their asses because they don't how other teams actually rate Rudolph.  It is not as if teams share their draft boards.  They keep them secret.

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HessStation

HessStation

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Posted
3 hours ago, slats said:

Outside of this drafting a guard at #6 overall nonsense, I agree completely. I'm fine with them dropping out of the Cousins' sweepstakes if the price gets too high (which I suspect Mac will), but they have to seriously address the QB position this year. Too many opportunities here to completely whiff at the position. 

The hope is that your professional NFL talent evaluation team is capable of whittling down a top five into a top three and ensuring yourself a shot at one of those top three. I'd be in constant communication with Indy about my potential desire to move up to three so that some parameters are in place when I'm ready to pull the trigger. And I'd be ready the moment it's announced that Cousins has signed elsewhere. 

Remember, the Eagles moved twice to get to #2 and take Carson Wentz. Once the Jets are at #3, it'll be easier to move up one or two slots to grab their #1 or 2 guy. It's entirely possible that Cleveland is thinking #4 overall for their QB, and that the Giants aren't thinking QB at all. You gotta be in it to win it. 

I think my favorite mock if they signed Cousins would be, Nelson, Price, Michel, Andrews, Gesicki....in that order....lol two interior OL, a RB and two TE's....lol.....I can see your head explose just thinking about it. :)

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The Crusher

The Crusher

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

It's tough to discredit, period.  There isnt much difference here other than one guy gets super excited and runs around the field flailing his arms around like a child after every TD and the other guy doesnt.

No but seriously, gun to head.  If you're giving me the choice of Mayfield at 6 vs. Rudolph in the 2nd, I'll take the BAP player at 6 coupled with Rudolph in the 2nd > Mayfield at 6.

 

Wow .. strong take 

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The Crusher

The Crusher

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1 hour ago, HessStation said:

Indeed. Check this out. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000870688/article/ask-5-wholl-be-a-better-pro-baker-mayfield-or-mason-rudolph

Executive 1: Mayfield
"This is an easy one. I'd go with Mayfield. He has a better arm, he's more accurate and I love his leadership traits. Rudolph has better size, but when your turn on the tape, it's not close."

Executive 2: Mayfield
"(Mayfield) has excellent command and he sees the field so much better (than Rudolph)."

Executive 3: Rudolph
"I love Mayfield. He's fun to watch and he's a winner, but I think Rudolph will be the better pro. He has good size, plenty of arm and he's a better athlete than people think."

Executive 4: Rudolph
"Mayfield is an incredible competitor, but his size, lack of accuracy down the field and decision making worry me. Rudolph has some issues, too, but he takes better care of the ball, he's more accurate down the field and he has a better arm. He does need to go through his progressions quicker and be better in the red zone, but I'd still take him over Mayfield."

Executive 5: Mayfield
"Mayfield is a better athlete, has more arm strength, he's more accurate and he is a much better playmaker."

Summary: That's three votes for Mayfield and two for Rudolph.

OMG that made me want to vomit.” F you Todd Bowles , Macc and McCown for your feel good wins.” I hate your faces. 

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Philc1

Philc1

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

Was he?

Completions - 6th (Mike White, Western KY #1)
Attempts - 7th (Tyler Rodgers, New Mex. St #1)
Comp. % - 15th (Baker Mayfield, Okla. #1)
Yards - 1st
Yards Per Attempt - 3rd (Baker Mayfield, Okla #1)
TD Passes - 5th (Drew Lock, Missouri #1, Baker Mayfield #2)
INT's - Tied 55th (Jalen Hurts #1 with 1, Baker Mayfield Tied #20 with 6)
QB Rating - 3rd (Baker Mayfield #1)

He was the leading passer in yards, and.....that's about it.

In overall statistics, Baker Mayfield surpassed him.  More accurate, more yards per pass, more TD's on fewer attempts, less INT's.

Rudolph certainly had a very productive college season, but lets not overstate shall we.
 

Todd Bowles mentoring Drunken Mayfield can’t wait!  Maybe we should also sign your boy Ryan Fitzpatrick and really get the mediocre qb carousel going

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Philc1

Philc1

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2 hours ago, Paradis said:

I love how these kinds of conversations escalate. I remember the Bryce Petty crowd too. "He's probably going round 2, at the latest. Kid's a stud"  

I never liked Petty and I was literally the only poster who didn’t like Lynch

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Long Island Leprechaun

Long Island Leprechaun

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2 hours ago, HessStation said:

Indeed. Check this out. 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000870688/article/ask-5-wholl-be-a-better-pro-baker-mayfield-or-mason-rudolph

Executive 1: Mayfield
"This is an easy one. I'd go with Mayfield. He has a better arm, he's more accurate and I love his leadership traits. Rudolph has better size, but when your turn on the tape, it's not close."

Executive 2: Mayfield
"(Mayfield) has excellent command and he sees the field so much better (than Rudolph)."

Executive 3: Rudolph
"I love Mayfield. He's fun to watch and he's a winner, but I think Rudolph will be the better pro. He has good size, plenty of arm and he's a better athlete than people think."

Executive 4: Rudolph
"Mayfield is an incredible competitor, but his size, lack of accuracy down the field and decision making worry me. Rudolph has some issues, too, but he takes better care of the ball, he's more accurate down the field and he has a better arm. He does need to go through his progressions quicker and be better in the red zone, but I'd still take him over Mayfield."

Executive 5: Mayfield
"Mayfield is a better athlete, has more arm strength, he's more accurate and he is a much better playmaker."

Summary: That's three votes for Mayfield and two for Rudolph.

More interesting comparison would be Rudolph to Darnold. Darnold has an average arm and accuracy issues. And a brief resume into which scouts can project like they're reading a Rorchach. At least Rudolph meets the Parcells QB test. That's something.

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HessStation

HessStation

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59 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

More interesting comparison would be Rudolph to Darnold. Darnold has an average arm and accuracy issues. And a brief resume into which scouts can project like they're reading a Rorchach. At least Rudolph meets the Parcells QB test. That's something.

I don't know of anyone that says Darnold has just an average arm or accuracy issues. It's footwork and decision making, progressions.

 

Ideal blend of size, arm strength and playmaking ability. He's an explosive thrower. He generates a lot of torque from his hips and the ball jumps out of his hand. He has also shown the ability to throw with a deft touch in the red zone -Jeremiah

Darnold is an accurate, natural passer with high upside who still needs to tweak his mechanics. -Kiper

His accuracy is terrific. -McShay

He's got everything you look for -- size, arm strength, accuracy. Could stand to clean up some mechanical stuff... NFC Exec

Throws with excellent accuracy. Quality arm strength -Walter Camp

Incredible touch and accuracy. NFL arm strength. -Draft Diamonds

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Paradis

Paradis

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1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

More interesting comparison would be Rudolph to Darnold. Darnold has an average arm and accuracy issues. And a brief resume into which scouts can project like they're reading a Rorchach. At least Rudolph meets the Parcells QB test. That's something.

The only thing the Rudolph crowd is leaning on in that piece, is size. Which, if that's the problem - then it's not even a fair comparison. It wouldn't have mattered how good Mayfield was, some just can't get past his size. I think the majority feel he belongs in the pile along with Wilson, and Brees etc

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