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joewilly12

By joewilly12
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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

I don’t understand why a team about to make a run at a title, trading away their captain and leader on defense

Ten million dollar cap hit for an inside linebacker is probably not high on their list of priorities this off-season. Maybe they feel they can plug in an average ilb behind Aaron Donald and he'll be good enough.

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nycdan

nycdan

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51 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

This Giants trade makes me think that they don't go QB at 2, If Barkley goes 1 do the Giants take Nelson or look to move back? I find this whole offseason more fascinating than any in recent memory.

I'm wondering as well.  Trading back might be more in the cards if they want to replenish the picks.  Definitely a tough draft to predict so far.

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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The Rams traded Ogletree (A far superior version of Darron Lee) and a 7th rounder for a 4 and a 6.  This is why you do not draft low value positions high.  (ILB in a 3-4).  Same thing with a box strong safety.

The Rams looked at their team, looked at the players they had to keep long term  (QB, high end RB, high  end dlineman, etc) and realized that ilb is simply a much easier position to replace with an acceptable player than any of the premium positions.

A couple years from now if the jets actually hit on a few picks they will be trying to deal lee even if he plays okay.  ILB in a 3-4 low value

 

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jetsons

jetsons

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5 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

This Giants trade makes me think that they don't go QB at 2, If Barkley goes 1 do the Giants take Nelson or look to move back? I find this whole offseason more fascinating than any in recent memory.

unfortunately the jets leadership gives me ZERO confidence that something good may come out of it.  :/

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RESNewYork

RESNewYork

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Posted
39 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The Rams traded Ogletree (A far superior version of Darron Lee) and a 7th rounder for a 4 and a 6.  This is why you do not draft low value positions high.  (ILB in a 3-4).  Same thing with a box strong safety.

The Rams looked at their team, looked at the players they had to keep long term  (QB, high end RB, high  end dlineman, etc) and realized that ilb is simply a much easier position to replace with an acceptable player than any of the premium positions.

A couple years from now if the jets actually hit on a few picks they will be trying to deal lee even if he plays okay.  ILB in a 3-4 low value

 

I believe Ogletree was also a first round pick

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

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42 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The Rams traded Ogletree (A far superior version of Darron Lee) and a 7th rounder for a 4 and a 6.  This is why you do not draft low value positions high.  (ILB in a 3-4).  Same thing with a box strong safety.

The Rams looked at their team, looked at the players they had to keep long term  (QB, high end RB, high  end dlineman, etc) and realized that ilb is simply a much easier position to replace with an acceptable player than any of the premium positions.

A couple years from now if the jets actually hit on a few picks they will be trying to deal lee even if he plays okay.  ILB in a 3-4 low value

 

Meh, not sure this proves anything. The Chiefs just unloaded Marcus Peters an elite CB (a high value position) for a 4th rounder this year and a 2nd rounder next year (which is basically the equivalent of a 3rd rounder this year). Not exactly a HUGE haul for an elite CB. 

The reality is that teams with elite Inside LBers feel the hurt when those players get hurt. Look at the Panthers with and without Keuchly and look at the Steelers after Shazier got hurt. 

Sure an elite edge rusher is more valuable than an elite ILB, but when you are drafting and you have a grade of 8/10 for a ILB and the best available edge rusher is graded at a 6/10, you'd be foolish to take the 6/10. Sure the 6/10 could end up being better than your ILB, but that isn't how any team drafts. If it was, you wouldn't see the Panthers drafting Keuchly at 9 overall, the Steelers drafting Shazier at 15 overall and the Ravens take CJ Mosley 17th overall.  

This notion that your first round picks always have to be edge rushers/QBs/CBs/OTs is just foolish and simpleminded. Would teams prefer to take those players? Of course. And those players often get overdrafted because of their value which is why players like Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams fall a little. That doesn't mean you continue the trend and draft a 2nd round talent with the 6th pick simply based on position. 

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Beerfish

Beerfish

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1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Meh, not sure this proves anything. The Chiefs just unloaded Marcus Peters an elite CB (a high value position) for a 4th rounder this year and a 2nd rounder next year (which is basically the equivalent of a 3rd rounder this year). Not exactly a HUGE haul for an elite CB. 

The reality is that teams with elite Inside LBers feel the hurt when those players get hurt. Look at the Panthers with and without Keuchly and look at the Steelers after Shazier got hurt. 

Sure an elite edge rusher is more valuable than an elite ILB, but when you are drafting and you have a grade of 8/10 for a ILB and the best available edge rusher is graded at a 6/10, you'd be foolish to take the 6/10. Sure the 6/10 could end up being better than your ILB, but that isn't how any team drafts. If it was, you wouldn't see the Panthers drafting Keuchly at 9 overall, the Steelers drafting Shazier at 15 overall and the Ravens take CJ Mosley 17th overall.  

This notion that your first round picks always have to be edge rushers/QBs/CBs/OTs is just foolish and simpleminded. Would teams prefer to take those players? Of course. And those players often get overdrafted because of their value which is why players like Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams fall a little. That doesn't mean you continue the trend and draft a 2nd round talent with the 6th pick simply based on position. 

They dumped peters because he was psyco that andy read didn't want on the team.

Kuechly is a MLB, a different kettle of fish than an ilb in a 3-4

Shazier a small ilb may have had is career ended.

There are tons of positions you can use a 1st rounder on but when you take ILB S S  these guys had better be difference makers.  This is especially true if you have none of the higher value positions.

Rams dumped their 1st round ilb because that spot is easy to replace with a competent player.  People are falling all over themsleves about how good davis was last year.  What did he cost the jets?  Dick all

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prime21

prime21

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With Jets defense lacking in talent at numerous position, a versitile Adams, considered by many as perhaps the best player in the draft, can provide many options for the Jets on the field.  I know we all live in this world where interceptions by a safety seems to be the most important stat, but this guy lines up in many spots on the field and he is involved in tackles on  plays that he is no where near at the snap of the ball.   For a rookie safety to come in and become the leader while learning the ways of the NFL is pretty impressive.  Yes...he needs turnovers to make JN happy.  Where is Marcus Williams again?

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SenorGato

SenorGato

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The Broncos needs to buzz off, they want the same offseason we should want the Jets to have and aren't really in a position to make it happen. Elway got his gift from the league already when they gave him Peyton Manning over the Jets, **** the **** off already. Today's rumor is they might be interested in trading for Ja'Wuan James, the Dolphins' young RT. Luckily he is expensive at $9.something million if not cut, which might cause some hesitation for a team with little cap flexibility like Denver. If/When he's cut the guy is looking at maybe $10-12 million a year - as a wild guess - on the open market thanks to the league dearth of OT talent. 

Once he's cut, something that's been in the air for a while and might really happen, he's a priority FA for Los Yets. Beachum - Carpenter - Jensen - Someone - James would be a competent 2018 OL they can build some depth behind in the draft. 

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

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2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/3/8/17096736/vegas-really-likes-vikings-chances-landing-kirk-cousins

Vikings  -230

Jets +300

Broncos +400

Cardinals +1500

 

Cousins should lay a million dollar bet on the Cards and then sign with them.

I've seen Cousins as high as -350 to the Vikings. Tony Pauline is usually pretty good with his inside info and he was pretty clear that Cousins is going to the Vikings. I hope he is wrong, but my money is on the Vikings. 

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Dinamite

Dinamite

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3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I've seen Cousins as high as -350 to the Vikings. Tony Pauline is usually pretty good with his inside info and he was pretty clear that Cousins is going to the Vikings. I hope he is wrong, but my money is on the Vikings. 

I've moved on already from Cousins.  Focused on the jets trading up for one of the QBs and getting some good players in FA (since they will likely use some draft capital to move up).  I hope the COusins saga doesn't drag into 4 visits and a long process with a clear outcome...

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Dcat

Dcat

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17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The Rams traded Ogletree (A far superior version of Darron Lee) and a 7th rounder for a 4 and a 6.  This is why you do not draft low value positions high.  (ILB in a 3-4).  Same thing with a box strong safety.

The Rams looked at their team, looked at the players they had to keep long term  (QB, high end RB, high  end dlineman, etc) and realized that ilb is simply a much easier position to replace with an acceptable player than any of the premium positions.

A couple years from now if the jets actually hit on a few picks they will be trying to deal lee even if he plays okay.  ILB in a 3-4 low value

 

So tell me... what part of Macagnan's brain is defective since it's clear he has no understanding that some positions are of greater value than others?  He doesn't get it. Bowles doesn't get it. The Johnson brothers don't get it either.  This is one very low brow organization.

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Dinamite

Dinamite

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Posted

One potential clever way for the jets to use their cap space is to do the NBA style of trade, where we take on a good player on a bad contract for a draft pick.   It would be like using cap space to buy a draft pick (Vinny Curry comes to mind).

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Lith

Lith

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

One potential clever way for the jets to use their cap space is to do the NBA style of trade, where we take on a good player on a bad contract for a draft pick.   It would be like using cap space to buy a draft pick (Vinny Curry comes to mind).

That is exactly what the Browns did last year, taking on Brock Osweiler's contract from the Texans for a 2 in this year's draft, plus an exchange of a couple of other picks.

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MDL_JET

MDL_JET

Posted
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15 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

One potential clever way for the jets to use their cap space is to do the NBA style of trade, where we take on a good player on a bad contract for a draft pick.   It would be like using cap space to buy a draft pick (Vinny Curry comes to mind).

That would probably be one of the best ways to use the money, especially if we miss out on Cousins. There's just not many good FA's that will require huge contracts. So why not get an extra pick. 

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Augustiniak

Augustiniak

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Posted
Just now, MDL_JET said:

That would probably be one of the best ways to use the money, especially if we miss out on Cousins. There's just not many good FA's that will require huge contracts. So why not get an extra pick. 

especially if the plan is to trade up for a qb.  

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MDL_JET

MDL_JET

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3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The browns did it and it was viewed as a shrewd move, if the jets did it the media would be blasting us for tanking.

Really? I didn't see that, most were just saying it's never really been done in the NFL before and then later people realized it was a pretty damn good move. 

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JoJoTownsell1

JoJoTownsell1

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Dinamite said:

One potential clever way for the jets to use their cap space is to do the NBA style of trade, where we take on a good player on a bad contract for a draft pick.   It would be like using cap space to buy a draft pick (Vinny Curry comes to mind).

 

9 minutes ago, Lith said:

That is exactly what the Browns did last year, taking on Brock Osweiler's contract from the Texans for a 2 in this year's draft, plus an exchange of a couple of other picks.

That isn't exactly what the Browns did. What the Browns did was absorb an AWFUL player in exchange for a 2nd round pick. The Browns were tanking and didn't care that Osweiller was awful, they just wanted more picks. What dinamite was suggesting  was taking on a solid player who has a bad contract and in exchange we also land a draft pick. We get the benefit of a decent player and a pick while the other teams get some cap relief.

I don't think that has happened yet in the NFL, but the Osweiller deal is likely the gateway to deals dinamite was talking about. It's a pretty good idea provided the player you take on doesn't have a contract that will hamstring your team in future years as well. 

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MDL_JET

MDL_JET

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31 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That isn't exactly what the Browns did. What the Browns did was absorb an AWFUL player in exchange for a 2nd round pick. The Browns were tanking and didn't care that Osweiller was awful, they just wanted more picks. What dinamite was suggesting  was taking on a solid player who has a bad contract and in exchange we also land a draft pick. We get the benefit of a decent player and a pick while the other teams get some cap relief.

I don't think that has happened yet in the NFL, but the Osweiller deal is likely the gateway to deals dinamite was talking about. It's a pretty good idea provided the player you take on doesn't have a contract that will hamstring your team in future years as well. 

Well still same concept. Browns essentially paid the Texans something like 16 million for a 2nd round pick. Not a bad deal when you have 100 million in cap space.

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joewilly12

joewilly12

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The Tennessee Titans released running back DeMarco Murray on Thursday following two seasons with the club. 

Murray, who turned 30 last month, had two years and $12.75 million remaining on his contract. However, none of that money was guaranteed. 

As a result, the Titans will have an additional $6.25 million in cap space at their disposal when free agency begins.

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nycdan

nycdan

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The Giants had $25.5MM in cap space before they got Ogletree, who will count $10MM against the cap including his roster bonus (if I have all the numbers right).

That seems to barely leave them enough to sign Norwell and their rookies without doing some restructuring.  And that assumes they don't have to do anything more for OBJ (yeah right).  It feels to me like a team with, say a LOT of cap could sneak in there with a big (over-market) offer to the All Pro Guard and steal him away.  

Just sayin'

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