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Many of the same people who have bitched incessantly for a year about drafting 2 safeties and abhor the idea of drafting Minkah Fitzpatrick are now whining that we didn't sign Tyran Mathieu.  If there

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2 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

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So that actually favors the Bills slightly in terms of value.  Why would the Colts do that.  For that value, the Jets could put up #6, #37, #72 and a 2019 3rd, giving the Colts a decent shot at still getting Chubb.  For a sure opportunity at Rosen, I'd do that.  If the Bills got to make that deal and took Rosen, i would be fuming.  

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Just now, nycdan said:

So that actually favors the Bills slightly in terms of value.  Why would the Colts do that.  For that value, the Jets could put up #6, #37, #72 and a 2019 3rd, giving the Colts a decent shot at still getting Chubb.  For a sure opportunity at Rosen, I'd do that.  If the Bills got to make that deal and took Rosen, i would be fuming.  

You’re telling me! I’m over here literally begging for Macc to pull the trigger on something like this. We neeeeeed Rosen on this team. It will fix so many issues for so long.

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So for trade purposes, at what 2019 draft slot could the Jets argue that their pick is worth?

If they argue that their pick will be too high after they trade for a 2018 QB, does that mean Mac gets automatically fired?

Can you hear the conversation?  

Mac to the Giants or Colts:  "We have a great deal for you.  We will give you our 2018 Number 1, both of 2018 Number 2s, and our 2019 Number 1, which you should assume will be AT LEAST A TOP FIVE PICK!  What a deal for you!"

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2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

So that actually favors the Bills slightly in terms of value.  Why would the Colts do that.  For that value, the Jets could put up #6, #37, #72 and a 2019 3rd, giving the Colts a decent shot at still getting Chubb.  For a sure opportunity at Rosen, I'd do that.  If the Bills got to make that deal and took Rosen, i would be fuming.  

I love draft picks more than most.

It sucks when you spend time looking at these prospects and then your team doesnt have the picks to take any dudes you looked at.

HOWEVA. We didnt get cousins. So we need to take the necessary steps. Personally, id go for spot 2 or 3.

give up: 6 & 49 & next year’s first

get: 2 or 3

this way you are able to spend 37 on a playmaker like Jones or Gesicki or DJ MOOREEEE. 

(Or a lineman (yawn))

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11 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

You’re telling me! I’m over here literally begging for Macc to pull the trigger on something like this. We neeeeeed Rosen on this team. It will fix so many issues for so long.

A trade up to 3 won't happen until draft day unfortunately.

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No matter what the Giants, Gettleman are saying, I can't imagine a scenario where they pass on Darnold or Rosen. Even if Eli plays another year, if Davis Webb looks like a QB, you don't pass on a franchise QB. And from all the opinions on here, those 2 are franchise QBs. 

On top of that, how can the Giants trade that pick, especially to the Jets. What if that pick traded to the Jets, turns out to be a franchise QB. There is just no way the Giants can be the team responsible for giving the Jets a franchise QB.

It really is just fan wishful thinking. Trying to come up with scenarios where the Giants, who don't plan on picking two again, will pass on a franchise QB because Eli maybe plays another year or two, or Webb is a legitimate reason to pass on a franchise QB. And it's psychedelic drugs that makes you believe the Giants would trade with the Jets to get a franchise QB.

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29 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

I haven’t really seen any player comps but as a passer he looks like Marino to me

More important than that, which guy looks like Ken O'Brien to you?

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27 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

I haven’t really seen any player comps but as a passer he looks like Marino to me

I see a lot of Carson Palmer.  I mean that in a very good way.

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2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

No matter what the Giants, Gettleman are saying, I can't imagine a scenario where they pass on Darnold or Rosen. Even if Eli plays another year, if Davis Webb looks like a QB, you don't pass on a franchise QB. And from all the opinions on here, those 2 are franchise QBs. 

On top of that, how can the Giants trade that pick, especially to the Jets. What if that pick traded to the Jets, turns out to be a franchise QB. There is just no way the Giants can be the team responsible for giving the Jets a franchise QB.

It really is just fan wishful thinking. Trying to come up with scenarios where the Giants, who don't plan on picking two again, will pass on a franchise QB because Eli maybe plays another year or two, or Webb is a legitimate reason to pass on a franchise QB. And it's psychedelic drugs that makes you believe the Giants would trade with the Jets to get a franchise QB.

I think it's 50/50 at this point. It all comes down to if Gettleman actually believes in Eli for 2-3 years. If that's the case I think they trade out or take Barkley and go for a ring. The only reason I say that is they are in a division that just saw the Eagles trade the farm for a QB, there will be opportunities to get a franchise guy in the future without a top pick. Texans and Chiefs both traded up for their QBs too from outside the top 10. Heck we are about to watch the Bills go from 21 all the way into the top 5.

If they want to only have Eli for one more year then they will take the QB.

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6 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

No matter what the Giants, Gettleman are saying, I can't imagine a scenario where they pass on Darnold or Rosen. Even if Eli plays another year, if Davis Webb looks like a QB, you don't pass on a franchise QB. And from all the opinions on here, those 2 are franchise QBs. 

On top of that, how can the Giants trade that pick, especially to the Jets. What if that pick traded to the Jets, turns out to be a franchise QB. There is just no way the Giants can be the team responsible for giving the Jets a franchise QB.

It really is just fan wishful thinking. Trying to come up with scenarios where the Giants, who don't plan on picking two again, will pass on a franchise QB because Eli maybe plays another year or two, or Webb is a legitimate reason to pass on a franchise QB. And it's psychedelic drugs that makes you believe the Giants would trade with the Jets to get a franchise QB.

This "Giants would never trade with the Jets" narrative is very popular here.  Might even be right.  But Gettleman's priority is to improve HIS team.  I can see not trading within the division, but in an ideal world, he should have no hesitation trading with the Jets if it helps his team get better.  I also think it's 50-50 if they take a QB.  Honestly the move that would help them the most is to trade down a bit and take Nelson (maybe at 5 or 6).  Their OL is so very terribad that bringing in a QB with that first pick means throwing away the 2019 season before it even starts.  Just like people here are all over taking White or Falk at the top of round 2, that could be a tactic for the Giants as well.  

Again, not saying your take is wrong, but I don't think it's nearly as sure a thing as you think it is.  People that are certain of an outcome they truly can't control or predict are often doomed to look foolish.

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THIS is the year to make the move and spend the picks.  There are a few solid QBs and we're within striking distance at #6.  I can't see it lining up better than it does right now.  With our defensive improvements and Bridgewater starting I could see the Jets easily winning 6 or 7 games, drafting around 13th next year with maybe only 2 or 3 worthy QB prospects.

I'll forgive Macc and the Jets if they make a bold move for a guy like Rosen or Darnold and it doesn't work out.  I won't forgive them if they get leapfrogged by the Bills, Cardinals, etc. because they weren't willing to do something like throw in an extra 2019 3rd round pick and we have to watch Josh Rosen lead the Bills to division championships for the next decade as he takes the torch from Tom Brady in the AFC East.

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Just now, jetstream23 said:

THIS is the year to make the move and spend the picks.  There are a few solid QBs and we're within striking distance at #6.  I can't see it lining up better than it does right now.  With our defensive improvements and Bridgewater starting I could see the Jets easily winning 6 or 7 games, drafting around 13th next year with maybe only 2 or 3 worthy QB prospects.

I'll forgive Macc and the Jets if they make a bold move for a guy like Rosen or Darnold and it doesn't work out.  I won't forgive them if they get leapfrogged by the Bills, Cardinals, etc. because they weren't willing to do something like throw in an extra 2019 3rd round pick and we have to watch Josh Rosen lead the Bills to division championships for the next decade as he takes the torch from Tom Brady in the AFC East.

You are my lobster. 

Honestly, I will not miss the picks we spend to move up.  Not now, not ever.  No player drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round this year or even next year is going to make me glad we stayed put and missed out on Rosen or Darnold.  Even if we use next year's 1st.  Teams do it quite often and so far, I haven't heard any PHI, LAR, KC or HOU fans complaining about not having a 1st rounder.  

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1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

I think it's 50/50 at this point. It all comes down to if Gettleman actually believes in Eli for 2-3 years. If that's the case I think they trade out or take Barkley and go for a ring. The only reason I say that is they are in a division that just saw the Eagles trade the farm for a QB, there will be opportunities to get a franchise guy in the future without a top pick. Texans and Chiefs both traded up for their QBs too from outside the top 10. Heck we are about to watch the Bills go from 21 all the way into the top 5.

If they want to only have Eli for one more year then they will take the QB.

 

3 minutes ago, nycdan said:

This "Giants would never trade with the Jets" narrative is very popular here.  Might even be right.  But Gettleman's priority is to improve HIS team.  I can see not trading within the division, but in an ideal world, he should have no hesitation trading with the Jets if it helps his team get better.  I also think it's 50-50 if they take a QB.  Honestly the move that would help them the most is to trade down a bit and take Nelson (maybe at 5 or 6).  Their OL is so very terribad that bringing in a QB with that first pick means throwing away the 2019 season before it even starts.  Just like people here are all over taking White or Falk at the top of round 2, that could be a tactic for the Giants as well.  

Again, not saying your take is wrong, but I don't think it's nearly as sure a thing as you think it is.  People that are certain of an outcome they truly can't control or predict are often doomed to look foolish.

I don't see it. If the consensus is that there are two franchise QBs, as the board believes, you can't be the GM that passes on a Franchise QB because Eli may play 2 more years. On top of that, did Eli play particular well last season? From his play, you believe a GM will warrant that enough of a reason to pass on a franchise QB? And, imagine being the GM that trades the #2 pick that ends up being a franchise QB. And then add that to trading that player to the cross town NYJ.

If the Giants pass on a QB or trade the pick, the reason has to be they just don't view that player as a franchise QB. There is no other explanation. You can't be picking #2 and have any other explanation.

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2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

You are my lobster. 

Honestly, I will not miss the picks we spend to move up.  Not now, not ever.  No player drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round this year or even next year is going to make me glad we stayed put and missed out on Rosen or Darnold.  Even if we use next year's 1st.  Teams do it quite often and so far, I haven't heard any PHI, LAR, KC or HOU fans complaining about not having a 1st rounder.  

The other move I like is if the Jets, by not signing Cousins, and only marginally putting a dent in their free Cap space this year roll money over to next year for Free Agency.  IF the Jets did something like trade this year's #6, a 2nd rounder, and next year's 1st rounder then having the $$$ to plug holes in FA next year will make up for the lost 2019 pick.

My only challenge with your comments are in regard to Houston.  I'm sure they'd love to have the #4 overall pick this year that went to Cleveland.  But I agree, Watson seems worth it.

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2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

 

I don't see it. If the consensus is that there are two franchise QBs, as the board believes, you can't be the GM that passes on a Franchise QB because Eli may play 2 more years. On top of that, did Eli play particular well last season? From his play, you believe a GM will warrant that enough of a reason to pass on a franchise QB? And, imagine being the GM that trades the #2 pick that ends up being a franchise QB. And then add that to trading that player to the cross town NYJ.

If the Giants pass on a QB or trade the pick, the reason has to be they just don't view that player as a franchise QB. There is no other explanation. You can't be picking #2 and have any other explanation.

The only player I think he could pass on a QB for is Barkley.  There are good RBs in the draft, but Barkley is possibly that once-in-a-decade guy.  You can build an offense around him and OBJ with any number of QBs but again, only if you have an OL.  There are so many needs for that team that trading down is actually a siren song.  And they could arguably trade down to 6, pick up a number of premium picks in the process, and still get a QB, maybe Allen or Mayfield.  So if they don't value them very differently, that's an option.  All I'm saying is, the NFL draft makes fools of all of us every single year.  Don't assume anything definitely will or definitely will not happen and if you're Macc, you plan for every possible outcome so you don't come away from this draft without a top-4 QB pick.

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5 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

 

I don't see it. If the consensus is that there are two franchise QBs, as the board believes, you can't be the GM that passes on a Franchise QB because Eli may play 2 more years. On top of that, did Eli play particular well last season? From his play, you believe a GM will warrant that enough of a reason to pass on a franchise QB? And, imagine being the GM that trades the #2 pick that ends up being a franchise QB. And then add that to trading that player to the cross town NYJ.

If the Giants pass on a QB or trade the pick, the reason has to be they just don't view that player as a franchise QB. There is no other explanation. You can't be picking #2 and have any other explanation.

You can’t rule out how much say the Mara clan has in this decision. Eli has brought them 2 incredible SB Championships. The media would make it unbearable if Rosen is sitting the bench. Mara’s let Eli leave as on his terms

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2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said:

 

I don't see it. If the consensus is that there are two franchise QBs, as the board believes, you can't be the GM that passes on a Franchise QB because Eli may play 2 more years. On top of that, did Eli play particular well last season? From his play, you believe a GM will warrant that enough of a reason to pass on a franchise QB? And, imagine being the GM that trades the #2 pick that ends up being a franchise QB. And then add that to trading that player to the cross town NYJ.

If the Giants pass on a QB or trade the pick, the reason has to be they just don't view that player as a franchise QB. There is no other explanation. You can't be picking #2 and have any other explanation.

Well I don't believe we are in play for the 2nd pick regardless but if you think Eli has 2-3 years and if they actually do believe in Webb then I could see them wanting to take the Bills picks. They could reel in 12, 22, and 2019 1st IMO if Eli falls apart then you have a ton of talent plus 2 first round picks in 2019 to go up and get your QB.

It's not going to surprise me one way or the other if they take a QB or not but I don't think they are 100% on it. 

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Just now, nycdan said:

The only player I think he could pass on a QB for is Barkley.  There are good RBs in the draft, but Barkley is possibly that once-in-a-decade guy.  You can build an offense around him and OBJ with any number of QBs but again, only if you have an OL.  There are so many needs for that team that trading down is actually a siren song.  And they could arguably trade down to 6, pick up a number of premium picks in the process, and still get a QB, maybe Allen or Mayfield.  So if they don't value them very differently, that's an option.  All I'm saying is, the NFL draft makes fools of all of us every single year.  Don't assume anything definitely will or definitely will not happen and if you're Macc, you plan for every possible outcome so you don't come away from this draft without a top-4 QB pick.

I respectfully disagree.

Barkley can be the greatest RB of all time but a franchise QB is still more valuable.

A package of picks to pick multiple players is not as valuable as a franchise QB.

If the Giants trade out of the pick, or take another player, it has to be because they don't view the QBs left as franchise QBs. For the Giants to say it's for any other reason, Eli, Webb, other prospects, they have to be lying.

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2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If I were forced to predict how this Draft goes I'd say Rosen #1, Darnold #2, Chubb #3, Barkley #4, Mayfield #5.....with the Jets looking at a decision between Quenton Nelson and Josh Allen.  

This is as credible and thoughtful as any prediction, noting:

  • Does Cleveland and the Giants basically switch-Dorsey does not seem sold on Rosen.  
  • Irsay is a wacko-does he want to spend top 3 money for a 4-3 DE who is not as dynamic a pass rusher as hoped?  Does he trade it, or take Barkley to go with Luck?
  • Will Mac be the GM to take Allen after 5 other teams, including those needing a QB who have the resources to trade up, passed?  I think not.  
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9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

If I were forced to predict how this Draft goes I'd say Rosen #1, Darnold #2, Chubb #3, Barkley #4, Mayfield #5.....with the Jets looking at a decision between Quenton Nelson and Josh Allen.  

Then I say. Ugh as much as I don’t like it, we take Nelson and wait another year. Just start building the oline for Lock or Stidham

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4 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

You can’t rule out how much say the Mara clan has in this decision. Eli has brought them 2 incredible SB Championships. The media would make it unbearable if Rosen is sitting the bench. Mara’s let Eli leave as on his terms

Again, if the Giants, the Maras believe there is a franchise QB there at two, they are not going to let Eli dictate the pick. Whats more important to their team, their fan base, Eli leaving on his terms, or a future franchise QB. 

Giants picking 2 have more pressure to get this right, then the Jets picking at 6. If the Giants trade the pick, and that pick turns out to be franchise QB, Gettleman will be ostracized. Bottom line is this, if the Giants pass on a QB at two, then those QBs better not turn out to be franchise QBs because you don't pass on one when you're picking #2 in the draft.

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6 minutes ago, Stark said:

Then I say. Ugh as much as I don’t like it, we take Nelson and wait another year. Just start building the oline for Lock or Stidham

If the Jets don't like the options at 6 and their favorite QBs are already gone then should they look to trade down, maybe even significantly, and get a team's 2019 1st rounder in order to load up for another run at a QB?

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1 minute ago, RESNewYork said:

Again, if the Giants, the Maras believe there is a franchise QB there at two, they are not going to let Eli dictate the pick. Whats more important to their team, their fan base, Eli leaving on his terms, or a future franchise QB. 

Giants picking 2 have more pressure to get this right, then the Jets picking at 6. If the Giants trade the pick, and that pick turns out to be franchise QB, Gettleman will be ostracized. Bottom line is this, if the Giants pass on a QB at two, then those QBs better not turn out to be franchise QBs because you don't pass on one when you're picking #2 in the draft.

Eli would never”dictate”anything. Too classy of a team player. Look how he handled the benching for Geno. Mara/fans were furious. Cost the coach his job! You think the Giants want that type of chaos? They’re better taking Faulk later to groom

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45 minutes ago, Stark said:

Then I say. Ugh as much as I don’t like it, we take Nelson and wait another year. Just start building the oline for Lock or Stidham

I agree that I’d take Nelson over Allen there. 

What do you think of Lamar Jackson? Not at #6 but in general. 

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1 hour ago, jetstream23 said:

If the Jets don't like the options at 6 and their favorite QBs are already gone then should they look to trade down, maybe even significantly, and get a team's 2019 1st rounder in order to load up for another run at a QB?

The Jets have traded down in the first round only twice since 1980.  It’s probably longer but I got lazy and didn’t think it necessary to keep going.

For what ever reason, we are not a team that moves down.  Maybe the philosophy is that we don’t have enough (or any stars) on this team so we stay or move up.  But the chance that we move down is probably remote at best.  

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3 hours ago, C Mart said:

and put Bears in on Badger.....

This works in our favor.  GB has to reserve the funds in case Chicago declines to match. Chicago has already said they would match.  But if Chicago waits until the last day, that’s 5 days GB can’t make any offers with that $$.

So unless Mathieu wants to wait another week, both Chi and GB are out.

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