Kiper's BIG Board

[RutgersJetFan]

This looks like a regular size board to me.

[TxJetfan]

4 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Combine and Pro days haven’t even happened yet and Kiper has catapulted Lauletta up to 7th on his QB list, IF this kid lights up the Combine, Pro Day, and most importantly the interviews and white board work he might end up being a 1st rounder!

Obviously he could also get exposed during these events, and interviews, and fall back to a mid round pick, might be the most fascinating thing to watch the next 2 months.

Frankly, I don't pay much attention to Kiper.  He never coached or scouted and he's just a prognosticator. I'd much rather listen to the Bill Polians and Charlie Casserly's of the world when it comes to opinions on prospects. And you're right, we haven't even gotten to the combine or pro days yet...this just makes for interesting debate, not much more.

[varjet]

5 hours ago, shuler82 said:

Holy ****. We’re totally drafting Fitzpatrick after signing Case Kennum to a 4/72 deal 

The blurb said he could play safety or corner...and then talks about playing in the slot.

That is basically what Adams is supposed to be able to play.  I think Minkah could be a better S/Slot corner than Adams.  

Let's say that Minkah was there for the Jets.  I would mind if they picked him and traded Maye for a second.  That is what they should have done with Williams.  Adams and Minkah would actually be an awesome secondary.

But 6 is not for a slot corner/safety when you already have safeties.  

[Integrity28]

Every year there is a QB that teams talk up to the draft media. They then over-spike the valuation of that player. Then the player falls in the draft creating drama during the TV show that has become the NFL draft.

It’s staging. 

[MDL_JET]

18 minutes ago, varjet said:

The blurb said he could play safety or corner...and then talks about playing in the slot.

That is basically what Adams is supposed to be able to play.  I think Minkah could be a better S/Slot corner than Adams.  

Let's say that Minkah was there for the Jets.  I would mind if they picked him and traded Maye for a second.  That is what they should have done with Williams.  Adams and Minkah would actually be an awesome secondary.

But 6 is not for a slot corner/safety when you already have safeties.  

You wanna draft a safety and then trade the safety we just drafted? How did that make any sense when you typed it. 

[varjet]

1 minute ago, MDL_JET said:

You wanna draft a safety and then trade the safety we just drafted? How did that make any sense when you typed it. 

I was comparing it to the Williams situation.  The Jets thought Leo was the BPA at 6.  They did not need three DTs, but Mo was already 3 years in.  Draft Leo and then trade Mo, and have Leo for 4-5 years.  An upgrade/extension, basically.

Minkah would likely be an upgrade from Maye, but to have both would be duplicative.  Maye is also older than you think.  If Minkah could play FS/Slot corner/outsider and they really thought he was the BPA (and there was no viable QB available), I would not scream if they drafted him, but at that point I think you really wanted Minkah you trade Maye.  

The bigger question is whether really could play CB1 full time like Ramsey.  If he could do that, you pick him and then have 3/4 of a good secondary.

[Untouchable]

31 minutes ago, varjet said:

I was comparing it to the Williams situation.  The Jets thought Leo was the BPA at 6.  They did not need three DTs, but Mo was already 3 years in.  Draft Leo and then trade Mo, and have Leo for 4-5 years.  An upgrade/extension, basically.

Minkah would likely be an upgrade from Maye, but to have both would be duplicative.  Maye is also older than you think.  If Minkah could play FS/Slot corner/outsider and they really thought he was the BPA (and there was no viable QB available), I would not scream if they drafted him, but at that point I think you really wanted Minkah you trade Maye.  

The bigger question is whether really could play CB1 full time like Ramsey.  If he could do that, you pick him and then have 3/4 of a good secondary.

I think Fitz is a safety at the next level. Sure, line him up in the slot here and there, which I definitely think he’ll be capable of. But I don’t think he’s a #1 corner in the NFL.

I’d be pretty pissed if the Jets took him. The only way I can buy a CB at #6 is if they fail to land an upper tier #1 corner in FA to pair with Claiborne. And even then if they were to take a CB I’d prefer someone like Josh Jackson or Denzel Ward over Fitz. And I personally think #6 is too high for either.

If the Jets land Cousins (which I actually happen to think has a damn good chance of happening), sign a CB like Johnson or Butler or Gaines to pair with Claiborne, and both Barkley and Chubb are off the board at 6...I’m taking Nelson all day if he’s there, unless we can land some great package from a team looking to move up.

Pair Nelson with a quality center in FA like Jensen/Richburg and you have the makings of a damn good, young OL. Beachum and Shell can do as the starting tackles for another year. Neither is horrible or even below average. Beachum is a decent starting LT when healthy and Shell is, again, decent but with the potential to get better. Cut Ijalana and bring in a low priced vet like Eric Winston as insurance.

[Larz]

Nelson is my favorite prospect

The giants or colts should take him to take some pressure off of their franchise QB

[Paradis]

top half feels sloppy, or at least generic

 

After QBs and RBs - where's the value in this draft? 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

14 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Every year there is a QB that teams talk up to the draft media. They then over-spike the valuation of that player. Then the player falls in the draft creating drama during the TV show that has become the NFL draft.

It’s staging. 

[Sonny Werblin]

22 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

When you cherry pick the parts you want to make your case against Allen, sure, but if read the entire blurb...:

"Allen (6-5, 237) is super raw, but he can really sling it. There's a reason he went No. 1 in my Mock Draft 1.0. He got better every day at Senior Bowl practices in Mobile, Alabama, where he was on the same team as Baker Mayfield. His numbers weren't great in 2016 (28 touchdown passes, 15 interceptions while completing 56 percent of his passes), and his numbers weren't great in 2017 (16 touchdown passes, six interceptions while completing 56.3 percent of his passes), but NFL teams will take into account the talent around him. The Wyoming offense lost 47 touchdowns from last season's team, along with its center. I think Allen's numbers will be much better in an NFL offense with NFL players. He put some strong film together in the Cowboys' bowl win, throwing three touchdown passes in the first half, even while recovering from a shoulder injury."

   

I'm confused. Doesn't everyone always say it is soooo much harder to play QB in the pros as compared to college? But, for some reason, it will be EASIER for Allen?? Is their an example of a QB putting up stats similar to his who then went on to be a really good pro? I mean Jesus, kiper ranked him #1 in the whole mother****ing draft, and he was terrible.

[bitonti]

17 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

if you are going to be weak at anything I would prefer it be long speed. 

1. long passes are completed at a very low percentage and an even lower percentage hit a WR in stride. Most of the time you see WR's adjusting for long passes in many different situations so a guy with good ball skills will even be more desirable in that situation.

2. most offenses are now geared to the short and intermediate passing game and getting the ball out quickly

great seasons like the ones Revis had were formulated by pressure and the ability to cover WR;'s in a 10 to 15 yard window Quickness is desired much more than speed even though Revis had both his quickness defined him. We have 2 very good safeties who can help out on the long passes. So if this guys a ball hawk and great in tight coverage then hes the guy you want in a pressure scheme.

thats all well and good but the draft is about value you don't take a 4.55 CB at 6 overall even if he's amazing in every other facet. it depends on how bad his speed is.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Ohio State NY Jets fan said:

Yup. I believe that was the highest tv ratingsctge draft had gotten to that point. So, corporations gonna corporation... make it part of the script.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm confused. Doesn't everyone always say it is soooo much harder to play QB in the pros as compared to college? But, for some reason, it will be EASIER for Allen?? Is their an example of a QB putting up stats similar to his who then went on to be a really good pro? I mean Jesus, kiper ranked him #1 in the whole mother****ing draft, and he was terrible.

Imo, it’s an overcorrection based on Wentz being good right away despite playing at Bumble**** U.

[Smashmouth]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

thats all well and good but the draft is about value you don't take a 4.55 CB at 6 overall even if he's amazing in every other facet. it depends on how bad his speed is.

Hey don;'t get me wrong I agree with not taking at 6 I would much rather go RB Barkley if by some act of heaven he drops to us and we also landed Cousins  .... Or we go LB and a REAL LB not some one trick pony Pass Rusher that can;'t actually play the position

[TuscanyTile2]

22 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Combine and Pro days haven’t even happened yet and Kiper has catapulted Lauletta up to 7th on his QB list, IF this kid lights up the Combine, Pro Day, and most importantly the interviews and white board work he might end up being a 1st rounder!

Obviously he could also get exposed during these events, and interviews, and fall back to a mid round pick, might be the most fascinating thing to watch the next 2 months.

I definitely will be keeping an eye on what happens with Lauletta.  Would love the Jets to draft him.

[kelly]

13 hours ago, Paradis said:

top half feels sloppy, or at least generic

 

After QBs and RBs - where's the value in this draft? 

3rd & 4th rounds..

 

[Smashmouth]

26 minutes ago, bitonti said:

thats all well and good but the draft is about value you don't take a 4.55 CB at 6 overall even if he's amazing in every other facet. it depends on how bad his speed is.

also forgot to say its not all about 4.3 speed as we have learned over and over 4.5 is still pretty damn fast and some 4.5 guys actually play faster than their combine speed may indicate and 4.3 guys play slower based on reaction times and such. The combine can;'t measure brains and that's also been proven over and over.

All these guys have talent, what sets the great players apart is their brains which can easily make up a mere tenth of a second or 2 tenths or even more. More often than not you see the great players are well spoken and carry themselves a little differently . Richard Sherman went where in the draft ? Once again I'm not making a point to get Fitzpatrick I'm just saying sometimes the Combine is a really bad judge to separate players and where they are drafted. I'm not, and never will be, a big combine guy its the main reason guys like Jamarcus Russel and Vernone Gholston get drafted 1st and 6 th over all.

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

also forgot to say its not all about 4.3 speed as we have learned over and over 4.5 is still pretty damn fast and some 4.5 guys actually play faster than their combine speed may indicate and 4.3 guys play slower based on reaction times and such. The combine can;'t measure brains and that's also been proven over and over.

All these guys have talent, what sets the great players apart is their brains which can easily make up a mere tenth of a second or 2 tenths or even more. More often than not you see the great players are well spoken and carry themselves a little differently . Richard Sherman went where in the draft ? Once again I'm not making a point to get Fitzpatrick I'm just saying sometimes the Combine is a really bad judge to separate players and where they are drafted. I'm not, and never will be, a big combine guy its the main reason guys like Jamarcus Russel and Vernone Gholston get drafted 1st and 6 th over all.

First off Vernon Gholston didn't run at the combine. People remember it wrong, he went to the combine, benched press 37 reps and that was it. He ran and verted at the Ohio State pro day. VG didn't win the combine. The bench press proved he was a weightroom junkie, which is better than the alternative (a guy who doesn't like to workout). 

Likewise Jamarcus Russell didn't do anything at the combine. All he did was measure height and weight. He was flabby but people generally liked the fact he was 6'6". 

As for the actual CB, you are right some attributes can't be measured. but the ones that can define value and it's dumb to overpay.  It's true the process is flawed and mistakes are made every year. BUt for every Richard Sherman I can bring up 100 mid round CBs that sucked. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

https://sports.theonion.com/nfl-draft-in-chaos-as-mel-kipers-big-board-is-knocked-o-1819569076

 

NFL Draft In Chaos As Mel Kiper's Big Board Is Knocked Over

 

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

First off Vernon Gholston didn't run at the combine. People remember it wrong, he went to the combine, benched press 37 reps and that was it. He ran and verted at the Ohio State pro day. VG didn't win the combine. The bench press proved he was a weightroom junkie, which is better than the alternative (a guy who doesn't like to workout). 

Likewise Jamarcus Russell didn't do anything at the combine. All he did was measure height and weight. He was flabby but people generally liked the fact he was 6'6". 

As for the actual CB, you are right some attributes can't be measured. but the ones that can define value and it's dumb to overpay.  It's true the process is flawed and mistakes are made every year. BUt for every Richard Sherman I can bring up 100 mid round CBs that sucked. 

 

Jamarcus Russell had one of the strongest arms the NFL has ever seen.

[Sperm Edwards]

18 hours ago, Maxman said:

I think he is saying this is based on value. There will definitely be multiple QBs picked in the top 5 based on need.

So this is based on value, and he’s got a RB, a safety, and a guard in his top 4.

Three positions where top 5-10 veteran FA money commands roughly $6m, $9m, and $8m, respectively - and are available basically every single offseason upon demand - and this is his idea of value?

lol

[Larz]

25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So this is based on value, and he’s got a RB, a safety, and a guard in his top 4.

Three positions where top 5-10 veteran FA money commands roughly $6m, $9m, and $8m, respectively - and are available basically every single offseason upon demand - and this is his idea of value?

lol

It's not value.  He says in multiple evaluations they won't get picked where he has them rated 

[Sperm Edwards]

20 minutes ago, Larz said:

It's not value.  He says in multiple evaluations they won't get picked where he has them rated 

I’m responding to @Maxman, who hasn’t been wrong since predicting Herm would win a Superbowl. Since then he’s batting .1000 so I’ll go with that.

[Smashmouth]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

First off Vernon Gholston didn't run at the combine. People remember it wrong, he went to the combine, benched press 37 reps and that was it. He ran and verted at the Ohio State pro day. VG didn't win the combine. The bench press proved he was a weightroom junkie, which is better than the alternative (a guy who doesn't like to workout). 

Likewise Jamarcus Russell didn't do anything at the combine. All he did was measure height and weight. He was flabby but people generally liked the fact he was 6'6". 

As for the actual CB, you are right some attributes can't be measured. but the ones that can define value and it's dumb to overpay.  It's true the process is flawed and mistakes are made every year. BUt for every Richard Sherman I can bring up 100 mid round CBs that sucked. 

 

I basically used 2 bad examples but you know where I'm coming from I would much rather judge players on the field and look at the football player rather than his measure ables. The Richard Sherman thing was basically me pointing to his speed because speed isn't everything in a lot of cases we see 4.3 blazers fail constantly.

 

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Jamarcus Russell had one of the strongest arms the NFL has ever seen.

and one of the smallest brains

 

 

[bitonti]

19 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

I basically used 2 bad examples but you know where I'm coming from I would much rather judge players on the field and look at the football player rather than his measure ables 

 

1

yes I do get that but it's a tough sentiment to hold on to, the further the calendar gets from actual football. 

if the draft was held the day after the National Championship instead of end of Apr it would be very different draft indeed.

back to this prospect, he's got interceptions but how many elite WR has he shut down? how many does Iowa even see in that conference?  I honestly don't know the answer but these are the football-related questions that come to mind.

[JoJoTownsell1]

8 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'm confused. Doesn't everyone always say it is soooo much harder to play QB in the pros as compared to college? But, for some reason, it will be EASIER for Allen?? Is their an example of a QB putting up stats similar to his who then went on to be a really good pro? I mean Jesus, kiper ranked him #1 in the whole mother****ing draft, and he was terrible.

There was this kid from Southern Miss that had a pathetic 52pct Comp Pct and an  underwhelming 52td/34ints in his college career that turned out to be pretty good for the Packers. 

I am not a huge Allen fan. I'd rather have Darnold and Rosen (and since those guys most likely won't be available at 6, my first preference is Cousins). But there is a case to be made for Allen having the potential to be the best of all the QB prospects in this years draft. He obviously had a down year this year, but there are reasons to think those weren't on him. Of course that will lead to the OMG he is Hack Part 2 jokes, but how Jetsy would it be for the Jets to pass on a kid like Allen because they screwed up with Hack and it turns out Allen becomes the Hall of Famer of the bunch and we missed out on him because of stupid comps to Hack? 

[Be_a_Jet]

Josh Jackson gunna be great

[Smashmouth]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

yes I do get that but it's a tough sentiment to hold on to, the further the calendar gets from actual football. 

if the draft was held the day after the National Championship instead of end of Apr it would be very different draft indeed.

back to this prospect, he's got interceptions but how many elite WR has he shut down? how many does Iowa even see in that conference?  I honestly don't know the answer but these are the football-related questions that come to mind.

yup and very valid questions, competition is huge ...its why the NFL draft is such a crap shoot especially at the CB position which is so important in today';s NFL.

[Greenseed4]

On 2/16/2018 at 2:05 PM, RutgersJetFan said:

This looks like a regular size board to me.

It’s not the size of the board that matters.

[jgb]

If Fitzpatrick slips due to teams selecting QBs, he has Mac written all over him 

[jgb]

13 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

There was this kid from Southern Miss that had a pathetic 52pct Comp Pct and an  underwhelming 52td/34ints in his college career that turned out to be pretty good for the Packers. 

The GM who drafts based on extreme outliers becomes extremely unemployed. It’s like citing the 0.5% of instances that not wearing a seatbelt actually saved someone life.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

The GM who drafts based on extreme outliers becomes extremely unemployed. It’s like citing the 0.5% of instances that not wearing a seatbelt actually saved someone life.

How many 6ft QBs succeed? Not many, toss out baker Mayfield.

How many QBs from FCS schools succeed in the NFL? Toss out Carson Wentz..

Again, I'm not huge Allen fan but you can't just pass on him because of his comp pct and ignore every other aspect of his game that stands out. 

[flgreen]

9 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

It’s not the size of the board that matters.

This attitude could explain why there are so few women on here. 

[Grandy]

25 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

How many 6ft QBs succeed? Not many, toss out baker Mayfield.

How many QBs from FCS schools succeed in the NFL? Toss out Carson Wentz..

Again, I'm not huge Allen fan but you can't just pass on him because of his comp pct and ignore every other aspect of his game that stands out. 

Wentz was way above Allen coming out. Accuracy is the most important tangible in a QB, and there have been no good QB's with under 60% completion in college (but there have been quite a few short QB's who've been great). Allen has posted 55% cmp, and against poor competition. It's Hackenberg all over again.