Jump to content

Kiper's BIG Board


prime21

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Wentz was way above Allen coming out. Accuracy is the most important tangible in a QB, and there have been no good QB's with under 60% completion in college (but there have been quite a few short QB's who've been great). Allen has posted 55% cmp, and against poor competition. It's Hackenberg all over again.

This has been bandied about like some "Red Badge of courage" by posters who draw it like a gun to defend their stance on not drafting Josh Allen . Exactly how many more passes do you have to complete during a game to improve from 55% to 60% or more ? Exactly how does playing with subpar receivers who drop as many passes as they catch factor into this percentage ?  Exactly how does constantly running for your life behind an offensive line not capable of holding up against superior competition factor into  any of this . 

I like this player, but I prefer drafting an offensive lineman 1st (Connor Williams if healthy) after a small trade down and looking to one of the lesser known 2nd tier guys especially if we sign a QB in free agency . 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 85
  • Created
  • Last Reply
51 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Wentz was way above Allen coming out. Accuracy is the most important tangible in a QB, and there have been no good QB's with under 60% completion in college (but there have been quite a few short QB's who've been great). Allen has posted 55% cmp, and against poor competition. It's Hackenberg all over again.

I keep bringing him because people like you keep forgetting but favre was below 55pct in college. He also played on a bad team.

Pretty sure if Allen played in the Sooners offense with their talent he'd be over 55pct. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched Allen play this past season. Like many, I expected a very good season. He did not have one. He may turn out to be a great pro, but someone needs to come up with a better explanation for his bad year than blaming his teammates. Weren't they the same guys as when Allen was expected to have a big year? Were injuries an issue? Peyton Manning won with a sh*tty Colts team. Josh Rosen wasn't surrounded by talented players? He won games almost single handedly. Why didn't Allen do better with the teammates he had? If his teammates were so bad, why didn't the experts foresee a down year for Allen? What would Wyoming's record have been without Allen? 

To me, the question is whether Allen is a "difference maker".  QBs taken in the top 10 are difference makers. Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, and Jackson all were unquestioned difference makers for their teams. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Grandy said:

Wentz was way above Allen coming out. Accuracy is the most important tangible in a QB, and there have been no good QB's with under 60% completion in college (but there have been quite a few short QB's who've been great). Allen has posted 55% cmp, and against poor competition. It's Hackenberg all over again.

Not arguing either way

but if you listen to interviews from their coaching staff, and read between the lines, they prefer Allen to Wentz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

How many 6ft QBs succeed? Not many, toss out baker Mayfield.

How many QBs from FCS schools succeed in the NFL? Toss out Carson Wentz..

Again, I'm not huge Allen fan but you can't just pass on him because of his comp pct and ignore every other aspect of his game that stands out. 

how many USC qbs succeed, none throw out Sam Darnold 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I watched Allen play this past season. Like many, I expected a very good season. He did not have one. He may turn out to be a great pro, but someone needs to come up with a better explanation for his bad year than blaming his teammates. Weren't they the same guys as when Allen was expected to have a big year? Were injuries an issue? Peyton Manning won with a sh*tty Colts team. Josh Rosen wasn't surrounded by talented players? He won games almost single handedly. 

2

Josh Rosen had far more talent surrounding him at UCLA than Allen did at Wyoming. There's four guys from UCLA at the Combine. Allen is the only one from Wyoming.  And it is possible for Rosen to be better than Allen and both of them be good players. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Josh Rosen had far more talent surrounding him at UCLA than Allen did at Wyoming. There's four guys from UCLA at the Combine. Allen is the only one from Wyoming.  And it is possible for Rosen to be better than Allen and both of them be good players. 

Serious question. If the talent around Allen was so bad, why wasn't anyone predicting a down season for him?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, bitonti said:

Josh Rosen had far more talent surrounding him at UCLA than Allen did at Wyoming. There's four guys from UCLA at the Combine. Allen is the only one from Wyoming.  And it is possible for Rosen to be better than Allen and both of them be good players. 

Are you serious? Josh Rosen’s offensive linemen almost got him killed every game and he still threw like a man with the Cowboys O-line in front of him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

How many 6ft QBs succeed? Not many, toss out baker Mayfield.

How many QBs from FCS schools succeed in the NFL? Toss out Carson Wentz..

Again, I'm not huge Allen fan but you can't just pass on him because of his comp pct and ignore every other aspect of his game that stands out. 

GMs are risk adverse. The draft very much is a paralysis by analysis situation. Most times GMs go with the high percentage play. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/16/2018 at 11:15 AM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I wanted us to tank for the #1 overall, but since now we are stuck picking what's left over at 6 (and that's even assuming one of the top 4 falls to us), signing Cousins is an absolute must and it's an amazing Plan B. We get an established QB with 5k yards per year potential. A smart kid, with a ton of heart playing in his prime. 

And like you said, it frees us up to surround him with great young talent. We can easily make the playoffs next year and be a contender in the AFC for 4 or 5 years. 

This is far fetched and dependent on Mac actually becoming a competent GM while on the job. He has proven time and again he has no clue what he’s doing.  In Mac, I do not trust.  His drafts have been horrific as has his FA signings. Look for more of the same. Even if he ‘wins’ the Cousins sweepstakes, this team is bereft of quality talent on all sides of the ball, leaving Cousins with ultimately being in the same scenario as he was in Washington - a good QB with an inferior supporting cast. Result: .500 over a couple years, perhaps a wild card appearance and quick exit.  Contract over. Mac will likely be fired a few years down the road if this team doesn’t meet expectations. Therefore, draft a prospect NOW, trade up if you must or trade back and take Lauletta. As long as we get a prospect QB this year I’d be thrilled because it’s just a matter of time before Max self destructs. By the time Mac’s done, our prospect will be fully ready. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Such a massively fault way to look at prospects.  I guess no one should draft barkey because penn state backs suck.

Fair point, I only count that against Darnold and not against Barkley. To be fair, though, I like both and would be happy with either.   But I can acknowledge the hypocrisy of only counting 'school positional history' (I guess we'd call it) against Darnold.  

Curious as to what @bitonti response would be?  Because I don't have a good answer. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/16/2018 at 11:16 AM, CanadaSteve said:

He won't last that long.  The Jets could move down MAYBE 4-5 spots and have a realistic chance.  But he is LONG gone by 21

I'm not so sure. It all depends on how teams view him. He is ranked as the 5th best OT by CBS sports, with Brown, Miller, Williams, Okorafor. 2017 was a bad year for OTs so lets look at 2016- the 5th overall OT was not taken until the 2nd round, with Decker (4th OT off the board) going 16th overall to the Lions. 2015 was another bad year for OTs, so lets look at 2014- the 5th top OT was taken by the Dolphins 19th overall. 

Just saying. Obviously if teams view him as a top 3 OT he will be gone. But it doesn't appear like he is ranked that high. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/18/2018 at 10:42 AM, bitonti said:

Josh Rosen had far more talent surrounding him at UCLA than Allen did at Wyoming. There's four guys from UCLA at the Combine. Allen is the only one from Wyoming.  And it is possible for Rosen to be better than Allen and both of them be good players. 

This issue imo is off set most of the time.

Oh Allen had poorer weapons!  He also had much worse competition to go up against.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This issue imo is off set most of the time.

Oh Allen had poorer weapons!  He also had much worse competition to go up against.

it was somewhat worse competition, i don't know about "much worse."

2017 Wyoming played Oregon, Boise State, Iowa, Utah State etc.  Wyoming played 1 ranked team, UCLA played 4. They both played Hawaii.

And the Senior Bowl dispells most reasonable concerns about competition levels. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...