Per sources, Jets could offer Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed contract. (Merged Cousins Jets $$$ thread)

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Well said. They are gutless if they do this. They are thinking about themselves before the team. I totally agree with Bart Scott on this - you need to have the patience to build your team the right way. That means drafting a QB and staying young. Mac's huge mistake was not starting from scratch the first year he arrived. We totally lost two years in their regime. I could care less if Mac and Bowles are employed - they should be thinking about building a winner and not saving their own skin. If we pick Cousins we'll be back in the same spot 4 years from now, with much less cap space, while we watch the rookie QBs from this year coming into their own and on perennial playoff teams like the Rams and Eagles.

Fully agree.  When a player is aggressive in free-agency they always say "it only takes one dumb team to pay the guy".  The Jets appear to be that dumb team.  Our best hope is that Denver really wants him and he passes on some guaranteed money (highly unlikely) in order to try to win and play for a better franchise.  

[TuscanyTile2]

@Maxman - this forum needs a Mehta icon ready to go in case the Jets do sign Cousins to a fully guaranteed contract.

[BurnleyJet]

This is what happens when you've not had a QB forever, Desperation. 

[Untouchable]

24 minutes ago, Paradis said:

is there a version where you're not a homer for this? Cause it feels like it could be reported that Kirk insists on prima nocta from all fans - and you'd shrug your shoulders while working on a slim jim. 

We aren’t getting a guy like Darnold without essentially mortgaging our next 2-3 drafts and I’m not settling on some coin flip like Mayfield or Allen over a proven Top 10-12 QB in his prime like Cousins.

Good, proven QB’s get paid a sh*tload of money in this modern market. Doesn’t matter if they aren’t truly elite. 

The 49ers just gave Garoppolo a near $140 million contract after 7 professional starts and guys like Matthew Stafford, Derek Carr and Alex Smith now all make $24+ million a year. 

I’m for damn near anything when it comes to landing Cousins that doesn’t involve unloading draft picks.

He’s a 29 year old 4,300 yard, 25-30 TD QB who completes 65% of his passes and is intimately familiar with the offense we’re set to run. I’ll gladly take that for the next 5-7 years and still have the ability to bring in 2-3 other upper tier free agents this offseason and retain all of our draft picks.

[Philc1]

59 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

Mac will go all in with KC, and Bowles is onboard. Neither 1 of them have the balls to draft a rookie and PLAY him. This off season will make or break these 2 gutless fools.

You’re right but after Petty and Hack what confidence should jet fans have in a) their ability to evaluate college qbs and b. Develop those qbs

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

I totally agree. If the prove not to have the balls to do the right thing and stay the course and build the team the right way, the Jets should have brought someone in that could. Hopefully we're wrong about this. 

Problem here is I'm sure the Johnsons are in favor of this plan - likely their idea.  It's a very Woody kinda move.

The media will commend them for it - it's a media first, wins second organization.  

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

We aren’t getting a guy like Darnold without essentially mortgaging our next 2-3 drafts and I’m not settling on some coin flip like Mayfield or Allen over a proven Top 10-12 QB in his prime like Cousins.

Good, proven QB’s get paid a sh*tload of money in this modern market. Doesn’t matter if they aren’t truly elite. 

The 49ers just gave Garoppolo a near $140 million contract and guys like Matthew Stafford, Derek Carr and Alex Smith now make $24+ million a year. 

I’m for damn near anything when it comes to landing Cousins that doesn’t involve unloading draft picks.

He’s a 29 year old 4,300 yard, 25-30 TD QB who completes 65% of his passes and is intimately familiar with the offense we’re set to run. I’ll gladly take that for the next 5-7 years and still have the ability to bring in 2-3 other upper tier free agents this offseason and retain all of our draft picks.

Agree.  Cousins is a pretty good qb who is still relatively young we have t had that in ages.  Who cares if we overpay 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, Greensleeves said:

Well said. They are gutless if they do this. They are thinking about themselves before the team. I totally agree with Bart Scott on this - you need to have the patience to build your team the right way. That means drafting a QB and staying young. Mac's huge mistake was not starting from scratch the first year he arrived. We totally lost two years in their regime. I could care less if Mac and Bowles are employed - they should be thinking about building a winner and not saving their own skin. If we pick Cousins we'll be back in the same spot 4 years from now, with much less cap space, while we watch the rookie QBs from this year coming into their own and on perennial playoff teams like the Rams and Eagles.

 

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

In order for the Jets to "reach" for a QB they have to destroy either their cap space or their draft capital.   They probably don't love any of the QBs who could potentially fall to them at #6 and they have cap space to waste (which is what Cousins will be in the big picture).  This move will reek of the desperation that the Fitzpatrick and McCown signings did except it's a couple of notches of an improvement.  Maybe it will get them a wildcard appearance but I don't see Cousins getting this franchise across the finish line.  This would be a terrible signing IMO.  Just more of the same from this crap franchise.  Never going for the real solution.  Always with the band-aids.

I understand these points and I think there's a lot of truth in what both of you wrote:

Signing Cousins to a big contract does have a self-serving component to it for Bowles and Mac.   Ideally, we should draft a quarterback and develop them.  Cousins will be overpaid.

All that being said, look at the guy's stats:

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
2012	24	WAS	qb	12	3	1	1-0-0	33	48	68.8	466	4	8.3	3	6.3	77	9.7	8.6	14.1	155.3	101.6	79.0	3	27	8.61	7.53	5.9	1	1	2
2013	25	WAS	qb	12	5	3	0-3-0	81	155	52.3	854	4	2.6	7	4.5	62	5.5	4.0	10.5	170.8	58.4	38.8	5	32	5.14	3.67	3.1			-2
2014	26	WAS	qb	8	6	5	1-4-0	126	204	61.8	1710	10	4.9	9	4.4	81	8.4	7.4	13.6	285.0	86.4	55.8	8	70	7.74	6.77	3.8			4
2015	27	WAS	QB	8	16	16	9-7-0	379	543	69.8	4166	29	5.3	11	2.0	78	7.7	7.8	11.0	260.4	101.6	71.0	26	186	6.99	7.14	4.6	2	3	12
2016*	28	WAS	QB	8	16	16	8-7-1	406	606	67.0	4917	25	4.1	12	2.0	80	8.1	8.0	12.1	307.3	97.2	71.7	23	190	7.52	7.45	3.7	4	4	15
2017	29	WAS	QB	8	16	16	7-9-0	347	540	64.3	4093	27	5.0	13	2.4	74	7.6	7.5	11.8	255.8	93.9	50.5	41	342	6.46	6.38	7.1	1	4	12
Career					62	57	26-30-1	1372	2096	65.5	16206	99	4.7	55	2.6	81	7.7	7.5	11.8	261.4	93.7		106	847	6.98	6.75	4.8	8	12	43

 

He's a lock for 4,000 yards passing, a mid 90's qb rating, a 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio, he's got eight 4th quarter comebacks and twelve game-winning drives.  

I think the hate on Cousins has gone too far.  And it's not like the Redskins are some great organization that's loaded with talent and never makes personnel mistakes... they've ****ed this whole thing up.  We should take advantage of that.  

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

We aren’t getting a guy like Darnold without essentially mortgaging our next 2-3 drafts and I’m not settling on some coin flip like Mayfield or Allen over a proven Top 10-12 QB in his prime like Cousins.

Good, proven QB’s get paid a sh*tload of money in this modern market. Doesn’t matter if they aren’t truly elite. 

The 49ers just gave Garoppolo a near $140 million contract and guys like Matthew Stafford, Derek Carr and Alex Smith now make $24+ million a year. 

I’m for damn near anything when it comes to landing Cousins that doesn’t involve unloading draft picks.

He’s a 29 year old 4,300 yard, 25-30 TD QB who completes 65% of his passes and is intimately familiar with the offense we’re set to run. I’ll gladly take that for the next 5-7 years and still have the ability to bring in 2-3 other upper tier free agents and retain all of our draft picks.

When you give a QB this amount of money, you then don’t have the money for a left tackle. You don’t have the money for a second decent corner. You can’t afford your WR2 or your better LBs. Look at what paying the QB did to the rosters of the Packers, Seahawks, Giants, and Panthers, and all of those QBs are infinitely better than Cousins. 

[Philc1]

35 minutes ago, Paradis said:

They're going to fully guarantee a 150 Million dollar contract before the player even puts on a Jets uniform?

Jesus fcking christ. I give up. 

Yes because the contracts we gave to players who were already jets that were $90 million or more worked out

[Philc1]

Just now, T0mShane said:

When you give a QB this amount of money, you then don’t have the money for a left tackle. You don’t have the money for a second decent corner. You can’t afford your WR2 or your better LBs. Look at what paying the QB did to the rosters of the Packers, Seahawks, Giants, and Panthers, and all of those QBs are infinitely better than Cousins. 

We have $100+ million in cap room

 

 

Next

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

We have $100+ million in cap room

 

 

Next

Game it out. Spend that hundred mil, subtracting the $30-40 mil you’re about to lock up Cousins with, and show me the competitive roster the Jets are left with: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you give a QB this amount of money, you then don’t have the money for a left tackle. You don’t have the money for a second decent corner. You can’t afford your WR2 or your better LBs. Look at what paying the QB did to the rosters of the Packers, Seahawks, Giants, and Panthers, and all of those QBs are infinitely better than Cousins. 

Right - our great cap situation will be "cap hell" in like 2 years.  A QB is worth this kind of money if he is the difference maker.  Aaron Rodgers is the difference maker.  I'd happily guarantee him the money if that's what it took to get him here.  Cousins is getting away with the "the Redskins don't have that much talent" excuse.   Meanwhile the Packers are an under .500 team without Rodgers but a SB contender with him. 

[TuscanyTile2]

8 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

 

I understand these points and I think there's a lot of truth in what both of you wrote:

Signing Cousins to a big contract does have a self-serving component to it for Bowles and Mac.   Ideally, we should draft a quarterback and develop them.  Cousins will be overpaid.

All that being said, look at the guy's stats:

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
2012	24	WAS	qb	12	3	1	1-0-0	33	48	68.8	466	4	8.3	3	6.3	77	9.7	8.6	14.1	155.3	101.6	79.0	3	27	8.61	7.53	5.9	1	1	2
2013	25	WAS	qb	12	5	3	0-3-0	81	155	52.3	854	4	2.6	7	4.5	62	5.5	4.0	10.5	170.8	58.4	38.8	5	32	5.14	3.67	3.1			-2
2014	26	WAS	qb	8	6	5	1-4-0	126	204	61.8	1710	10	4.9	9	4.4	81	8.4	7.4	13.6	285.0	86.4	55.8	8	70	7.74	6.77	3.8			4
2015	27	WAS	QB	8	16	16	9-7-0	379	543	69.8	4166	29	5.3	11	2.0	78	7.7	7.8	11.0	260.4	101.6	71.0	26	186	6.99	7.14	4.6	2	3	12
2016*	28	WAS	QB	8	16	16	8-7-1	406	606	67.0	4917	25	4.1	12	2.0	80	8.1	8.0	12.1	307.3	97.2	71.7	23	190	7.52	7.45	3.7	4	4	15
2017	29	WAS	QB	8	16	16	7-9-0	347	540	64.3	4093	27	5.0	13	2.4	74	7.6	7.5	11.8	255.8	93.9	50.5	41	342	6.46	6.38	7.1	1	4	12
Career					62	57	26-30-1	1372	2096	65.5	16206	99	4.7	55	2.6	81	7.7	7.5	11.8	261.4	93.7		106	847	6.98	6.75	4.8	8	12	43

 

He's a lock for 4,000 yards passing, a mid 90's qb rating, a 2 to 1 TD to INT ratio, he's got eight 4th quarter comebacks and twelve game-winning drives.  

I think the hate on Cousins has gone too far.  And it's not like the Redskins are some great organization that's loaded with talent and never makes personnel mistakes... they've ****ed this whole thing up.  We should take advantage of that.  

Great QBs make bad to mediocre teams good.  If Aaron Rodgers were the QB of the Redskins they'd be winning the division and playoff games.  Cousins is a guy who puts up gaudy stats but doesn't have what it takes to make a team great.

I guess if the Jets' D ever lives up to its potential then maybe we can win with a guy like Cousins.  But as we saw last year, a great defense can get shredded by a good offense in post-season.  The Patriots absolutely shredded the Eagles' D in the SB.

[Untouchable]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you give a QB this amount of money, you then don’t have the money for a left tackle. You don’t have the money for a second decent corner. You can’t afford your WR2 or your better LBs. Look at what paying the QB did to the rosters of the Packers, Seahawks, Giants, and Panthers, and all of those QBs are infinitely better than Cousins. 

The Jets don’t have any upcoming big contracts to take care of over the next 2-3 years besides Leo.

They have a ton of cap flexibility not just this year, but next year as well.

They also don’t just have the money to bring in Cousins, after shedding dead weight like Wilkerson, Skrine, Forte, etc they’re going to have upwards of $100 million to play with. They could make Cousins the highest paid player in the league and still afford a top CB like Malcom Butler or Trumaine Johnson, a wideout like Jarvis Landry or Sammy Watkins, and one of the top centers on the market like Weston Richburg. And they’d still have the cash left over to re-sign guys like Claiborne, Davis and ASJ.

[BigRy56]

Nothing gets this fanbase going like a report of somebody hearing what the Jets “could” do in free agency a month before free agency...

[BigRy56]

^d_ou ble

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

The Jets don’t have any upcoming big contracts to take care of over the next 2-3 years besides Leo.

They have a ton of cap flexibility not just this year, but next year as well.

They also don’t just have the money to bring in Cousins, after shedding dead weight like Wilkerson, Skrine, Forte, etc they’re going to have upwards of $100 million to play with. They could make Cousins the highest paid player in the league and still afford a top CB like Malcom Butler or Trumaine Johnson, a wideout like Jarvis Landry or Sammy Watkins, and one of the top centers on the market like Weston Richburg. And they’d still have the cash left over to re-sign guys like Claiborne, Davis and ASJ.

That is not remotely a competitive roster. 

[Dcat]

16 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

In order for the Jets to "reach" for a QB they have to destroy either their cap space or their draft capital.   They probably don't love any of the QBs who could potentially fall to them at #6 and they have cap space to waste (which is what Cousins will be in the big picture - a waste).  This move will reek of the desperation that the Fitzpatrick and McCown signings did except it's a couple of notches of an improvement.  Maybe it will get them a wildcard appearance but I don't see Cousins getting this franchise across the finish line.  This would be a terrible signing IMO.  Just more of the same from this crap franchise.  Never going for the real solution.  Always with the band-aids.

Not everybody equates Cousins to McCown and Fitzpatrick.  A lot of people believe it is way better than a "band aid".  Barring injury, it would be a solution for the next 5 years.  Which of the rookie QBs would be your solution, barring injury, for the next 5 years?  Frankly, I think Bowles will ruin any of these prospects, so I'd prefer taking a QB who does not need to be coached to NFL readiness.  We see how well Bowles has handled those types already.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

Great QBs make bad to mediocre teams good.  If Aaron Rodgers were the QB of the Redskins they'd be winning the division and playoff games.  Cousins is a guy who puts up gaudy stats but doesn't have what it takes to make a team great.

Well, I'm not willing to wait for the next Aaron Rodgers to suddenly appear in a Jets roster before I pay a quarterback big money.  

Lower your standards.  

[The Walrus]

There has to be a tipping point somewhere. % of cap spent on Cousins vs trading away picks to get Darnold etc.

Me, I'd rather spend some picks over the next 2 years to get to #1 instead of locking up this much money for this player.

If Cousins was Rodgers then I'd be in, but if he's not then it's a double whammy, a QB who isn't good enough and not enough money to get other players to make up the difference.

[Dcat]

This whole article is stupid.  Even if the Jets were considering this, they wouldn't have disclosed it to anyone who would bring the info to Florio.  Unless they did it intentionally.  I can even think of reasons why the Jets might want to intentionally plant false info out there.  This whole thing doesn't pass the smell test.  

[Dcat]

dupe

[rangerous]

relax, this is from florio meaning he's stirring up bs in a backwards way to make his doltfins look that much better.  it would be foolish for the jets to put themselves in cap hell for the sake of one player even if the guy is good.  they can front load the contract so the major salary cap bite comes out this year but as the contract progresses, it's salary cap impact has to diminish.  and it's also foolish to guarantee a contract for so long.  this isn't the nba or baseball.  they can incentivize it so he gets more for playoff attainments and the like.

another thing, cousins would give the jets the best qb in the division, including brady.

[Gastineau Lives]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

With no one in charge of them. Chris Johnson is currently on a yacht in the Mediterranean getting peed on by Russian prostitutes and will eventually learn about this debacle from a shoe-shine boy in the Maldives.

So now I'm jealous of Chris Johnson. Thanks, Shane. Like I didn't feel bad enough.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Not everybody equates Cousins to McCown and Fitzpatrick.  A lot of people believe it is way better than a "band aid".  Barring injury, it would be a solution for the next 5 years.  Which of the rookie QBs would be your solution, barring injury, for the next 5 years?  Frankly, I think Bowles will ruin any of these prospects, so I'd prefer taking a QB who does not need to be coached to NFL readiness.  We see how well Bowles has handled those types already.  

I just don't believe the FA route is the way to win.  We need to develop our own FQB for once.  You might be correct about Bowles ruining a young QB.  But he should be fired then (and he should be!)

I say "band aid" because it's the team going for the name QB with flashy stats who isn't a real winner.  Aaron Rodgers would've won division titles and playoff games with the Redskins roster.  Pretty sure Cousins hasn't won a playoff game.

[Untouchable]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

That is not remotely a competitive roster. 

Sure it is 

I’d take an offensive lineup similar to something like this next year and not think twice.

 

QB Kirk Cousins (FA)

RB Sony Michel (#37)

WR Jarvis Landry (FA)

WR Robby Anderson 

WR Quincy Enunwa 

TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins

LT Kelvin Beachum 

LG Quenton Nelson (#6)

C Weston Richburg (FA)

RG Brian Winters 

RT Brandon Shell

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, The Walrus said:

There has to be a tipping point somewhere. % of cap spent on Cousins vs trading away picks to get Darnold etc.

Me, I'd rather spend some picks over the next 2 years to get to #1 instead of locking up this much money for this player.

If Cousins was Rodgers then I'd be in, but if he's not then it's a double whammy, a QB who isn't good enough and not enough money to get other players to make up the difference.

I definitely agree with the premise that there is a tipping point.  

How expensive is it to move up? 

Will Cousins ask for a % of cap deal?

If Cousins gets a fully guaranteed contract, is he willing to take less money?

Do you think Lamar Jackson @ 6 is worth it?

All of these need to be answered before I'd give a definitive answer.  

[TuscanyTile2]

3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Well, I'm not willing to wait for the next Aaron Rodgers to suddenly appear in a Jets roster before I pay a quarterback big money.  

Lower your standards.  

Why can't we trade up and draft a QB that we can develop?  How often does signing a FA work?  Peyton won a SB for the Broncos.  Who else?

[Dcat]

23 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

This is what happens when you've not had a QB forever, Desperation. 

more like this is what happens when Mike Florio needs some urgent clicks.

[BrickTamland]

This is a somewhat scary thought, though frankly if its only 4 years i wouldnt care much.

More importantly, however, this guy Florio is full of it.

[RedBeardedSavage]

10 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Why can't we trade up and draft a QB that we can develop?  How often does signing a FA work?  Peyton won a SB for the Broncos.  Who else?

We can trade up...  But it depends on the price, no? 

What if Darnold and Cousins are very similar players - i.e. accurate, poised, productive, with average arm strength - neither ever becoming A Rodge.  Would you rather have paid Cousins 30 a year or given up 3 #1's and a 2 for Darnold?  

Right now with the money we have available I think draft picks are more valuable than cap space, so I lean towards signing Cousins.

"Does signing a FA work?" -  When was the last time anyone with Cousins' production and age was ever a free agent?  

[rangerous]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Why can't we trade up and draft a QB that we can develop?  How often does signing a FA work?  Peyton won a SB for the Broncos.  Who else?

fran tarkenton and craig morton both went to superbowls after being traded.  jim plunkett went and so did doug williams. kurt warner and  brett favre too.  drew brees.  i know they wee not all free agents but they didn't go as members of the teams that drafted them.  it's rare when a qb gets to free agency.  as others have said, why are the redskins letting cousins go if he's so good?  no telling.  maybe his asking price was too high for them.  maybe the coach wants alex smith more.

[BigRy56]

Nothing gets this fanbase going like a report of somebody hearing what the Jets “could” do in free agency a month before free agency...

[rangerous]

Just now, RedBeardedSavage said:

We can trade up.  But it depends on the price, no? 

What if Darnold and Cousins are very similar players - i.e. accurate, poised, productive, with average arm strength - neither ever becoming A Rodge.  Would you rather have paid Cousins 30 a year or given up 3 #1's and a 2 for Darnold?  

Right now with the money we have available, I think draft picks are more valuable than cap space, so I lean towards signing Cousins.

"Does signing a FA work?" -  When was the last time anyone with Cousins' production and age was ever a free agent?  

the answer is that both scenarios are similar.  in one case the jets give up salary cap capital for a qb and in the other draft pick capital.  if they trade up a guy like darnold they will be impacting their player pipeline for a couple of seasons.  and then, if darnold turns out to be great, at the end of his rookie contract he's going to want big money.  with a guy like cousins they would have some flexibility working the cap and still be able to draft solid players for short money.