Per sources, Jets could offer Kirk Cousins fully guaranteed contract. (Merged Cousins Jets $$$ thread)

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

We can trade up.  But it depends on the price, no? 

What if Darnold and Cousins are very similar players - i.e. accurate, poised, productive, with average arm strength - neither ever becoming A Rodge.  Would you rather have paid Cousins 30 a year or given up 3 #1's and a 2 for Darnold?  

Right now with the money we have available, I think draft picks are more valuable than cap space, so I lean towards signing Cousins.

"Does signing a FA work?" -  When was the last time anyone with Cousins' production and age was ever a free agent?  

I hear you but I just feel like Cousins will only make us feel better because the Jets will be a wildcard contender every year with him.  But we won't be a serious contender to win the SB (which is ultimately what we all want).  Going 10-6 and losing a wildcard game where Cousins throws for 300 yards and 2 TDs would be a huge improvement for this team but what's the point?  Parcells said (something along the lines of) it's a lot easier to go from 3-13 to 10-6 than it is from 10-6 to 13-3.  

[Jet Blast]

Everyone should back away from the ledge and not be so quick to believe everything they read.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Jet Blast said:

Everyone should back away from the ledge and not be so quick to believe everything you read.

It just sounds so Jet-like that I wouldn't be surprised.

[Dcat]

3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I definitely agree with the premise that there is a tipping point.  

How expensive is it to move up? 

Will Cousins ask for a % of cap deal?

If Cousins gets a fully guaranteed contract, is he willing to take less money?

Do you think Lamar Jackson @ 6 is worth it?

All of these need to be answered before I'd give a definitive answer.  

all great questions. and agreed there is a tipping point out there for all Jets fans.  I imagine it will be immensely different depending on how one feels about Cousins' ability and those of the draft prospects.  It will also depend on how willing one is to trade picks.  Some people value picks like a parents value the safety of their children and others see them as nothing more than capital to be traded without hesitation if you want the deal. 

Quote

How expensive is it to move up? 

you never know.  Since Washington's colossal blunder in its trade up for RG3, the pendulum has shifted toward needing to offer more than the old draft value chart would suggest (valuing subsequent year picks at one round less than this years' picks).  Especially trade ups in the top 5.  I think we'd be looking at significant loss of this years' and future year picks.  

Quote

Will Cousins ask for a % of cap deal?

If Cousins gets a fully guaranteed contract, is he willing to take less money?

not sure about % of cap.  Interesting concept.  But if the Jets are foolish enough to be the ones to offer a fully guaranteed contract, then Cousins better take a big chunk less!

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Do you think Lamar Jackson @ 6 is worth it?

I don't know the answer to that.  Without a trade up, that very well may be what we are looking at.  Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield off the board.  Maybe Allen too. Can we do a trade back and still get Jackson?  would it be worth the risk?

[Gastineau Lives]

19 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

  Aaron Rodgers would've won division titles and playoff games with the Redskins roster. 

Link?

[RedBeardedSavage]

38 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the answer is that both scenarios are similar.  in one case the jets give up salary cap capital for a qb and in the other draft pick capital.  if they trade up a guy like darnold they will be impacting their player pipeline for a couple of seasons.  and then, if darnold turns out to be great, at the end of his rookie contract he's going to want big money.  with a guy like cousins they would have some flexibility working the cap and still be able to draft solid players for short money.

I'd rather have more picks to build through the draft than to try to build a team through free agency.  You always pay more for free agents.

I'm more willing to overpay Cousins, the rare top 1/3 of the league quarterback that hits free agency, and build the rest of the team through the draft than I am to trade away a bunch of draft picks for a rookie quarterback, hope he's good, and spend free agent dollars building a team around him.

Ideally, I want to keep our three picks in the top 50 this year.  I want us to sign Cousins and watch Denver, the Giants and the Browns all pick a quarterback - maybe even watch another team trade up ahead of Denver for one of them, or watch a team offer to trade up with us looking tp land the fourth quarterback. 

 

 

 

[harts724]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Imagine locking up $30 million dollars in cap space for the next five years in a player that the Redskins are voluntarily throwing away.

Cousin steps through the door as the best QB Jets have had since Namath and its not even close! I don`t trust the front office to draft a QB and if he doesn't pan out will set francize back ANOTHER 5 years. I`m to old for anymore of this sh*t!

[RoadFan]

I am not totally sold on Cousins. 

But I am fairly certain he is better than what we have had for 20 years. 

I know that Brady can't play forever.  I know the Cheats no longer have a quality QB waiting with a clip board.

I know that neither the Fish nor Bills have a QB worth mentioning.

The timing of this move is excellent for 2019 and beyond...

What the hell. Take a shot.  I will support it... and Kirk Cousins wholeheartedly.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Link?

Let me get that to you! 

[jetgreen13]

13 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Why can't we trade up and draft a QB that we can develop?  How often does signing a FA work?  Peyton won a SB for the Broncos.  Who else?

we certainly can try to trade up but bowles has been nothing short of the kiss of death for both young QBs he's had here..

the idea that ownership is aware/don't care about this is staggering!!

a well below JAG HC, that requires a veteran QB.. period.. LOLz & we still extended the guy??

go jets!!

 

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, harts724 said:

Cousin steps through the door as the best QB Jets have had since Namath and its not even close! I don`t trust the front office to draft a QB and if he doesn't pan out will set francize back ANOTHER 5 years. I`m to old for anymore of this sh*t!

I feel like Cousins is going to be the guy that appeases the fan base for a couple of years but the team really doesn't go anywhere with him (maybe a wildcard loss) and then 5 years from now we're scratching our heads again.  

[RedBeardedSavage]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

all great questions. and agreed there is a tipping point out there for all Jets fans.  I imagine it will be immensely different depending on how one feels about Cousins' ability and those of the draft prospects.  It will also depend on how willing one is to trade picks.  Some people value picks like a parents value the safety of their children and others see them as nothing more than capital to be traded without hesitation if you want the deal. 

you never know.  Since Washington's colossal blunder in its trade up for RG3, the pendulum has shifted toward needing to offer more than the old draft value chart would suggest (valuing subsequent year picks at one round less than this years' picks).  Especially trade ups in the top 5.  I think we'd be looking at significant loss of this years' and future year picks.  

not sure about % of cap.  Interesting concept.  But if the Jets are foolish enough to be the ones to offer a fully guaranteed contract, then Cousins better take a big chunk less!

I don't know the answer to that.  Without a trade up, that very well may be what we are looking at.  Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield off the board.  Maybe Allen too. Can we do a trade back and still get Jackson?  would it be worth the risk?

2

I am certainly not willing to offer the RG3 trade compensation to move up.  Three firsts and a second is too much.  I'd rather pay Cousins 30 per. 

I think I'd rather offer a fully guaranteed deal, where ideally Cousins would take slightly less each year, than a cap % deal.  But I've got to think on that more.  

I'm torn on Lamar Jackson - but I'm also aware that any one of the QB needy teams ahead of us, or behind us that are willing to trade up, could fall in love with this prospect and snatch him up before six.  One of the main reasons I advocate for signing Cousins is because I don't like the idea of "waiting to see what happens in April with the five picks ahead of us."  To me, that's not a strategy, that's just a roll of the dice - I'd rather be more proactive.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

52 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I remember feeling this exact same way when the Nets traded their next twenty draft picks for Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce. 

You do realize that the only way to insure that we get the franchise QB we want would be to trade away a ton of draft picks to move up and take that player. Otherwise, Macc will be left with taking the 3rd, 4th or even 5th best QB in the draft at 6. 

1st pick Browns Darnold

2nd pick Giants Rosen

3rd pick Colts

4th pick Bills/Cards trade up to take Allen

5th Pick Broncos take Mayfield

We may have to give up a ton just to move up to 4th if the Bills are overly aggressive and willing to overpay. 

I  would have preferred to tank this season and I think that was kind of Macc's plan and then mccown had to ruin it by being competent. Now we are left with the 6th pick and the Cousins option allows us to improve our QB situation drastically AND keep our #6, two seconds to build a young cheap team around Cousins so his contract doesn't kill us. 

38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When you give a QB this amount of money, you then don’t have the money for a left tackle. You don’t have the money for a second decent corner. You can’t afford your WR2 or your better LBs. Look at what paying the QB did to the rosters of the Packers, Seahawks, Giants, and Panthers, and all of those QBs are infinitely better than Cousins. 

Cry daily about not having a franchise QB then when we manage to sign a franchise QB cry that he cost too much money. Classic SOJF nonsense this forum is filled with.  

While the Packers/Seahawks/Giants/Panthers rosters are weak, it is partly due to overpaying at QB but it's also partly to do with the teams winning and drafting at the bottom of the draft each year. A problem I won't mind having in 5 years because it will mean we've been making the playoffs. 

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, DoubleDown said:

I could live with it.

Time to go all in on offense. Sign Cousins and use high draft picks on offense. Focus on shoring up the offensive line.

If the Jets tanked properly, I'd be all about drafting a franchise quarterback and building around a homegrown talent. They failed and they are likely looking at the 4th best quarterback at pick #6. It's going to cost valuable picks to move up. Picks they can't afford to lose.

A quarterback like Cousins doesn't hit the market often. Go for the sure thing, stabilize the most important position in sports for 5 years, and see what happens. Whether you want to admit it or not, it's their best chance at turning this franchise around.

Thank you!!

And to all you naysayers...

All I have to say is this!!

 

 

[RoadFan]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Imagine locking up $30 million dollars in cap space for the next five years in a player that the Redskins are voluntarily throwing away.

I often find we're on the same side of an argument.   But I think you're wrong here.

I don't think the Skins are "throwing him away" is accurate.  Some argue that Cousins thinks that D.C. is completely dysfunctional and wants out.  Probably both are true to an extent.  Don't forget, RGIII was Snyder's guy.  Must have been awkward immediately for KC.

I don't think he is a superstar either.   But I believe the timing is perfect.  The Cheats have no plan at QB after Brady.  Phins and Bills have nothing either. 

If you can acknowledge that Cousins is good enough to win the AFCE a couple of times over a 7 year stint... it is worth whatever they pay him.  The Jets have won the AFCE only twice in my lifetime.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DoubleDown]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I remember feeling this exact same way when the Nets traded their next twenty draft picks for Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce. 

Big difference is that Cousins costs the team zero draft picks.

[jmat321]

So they are offering the NFL equivalent of the Booby Bonilla contract, awesome

[Jetster]

55 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Great QBs make bad to mediocre teams good.  If Aaron Rodgers were the QB of the Redskins they'd be winning the division and playoff games.  Cousins is a guy who puts up gaudy stats but doesn't have what it takes to make a team great.

I guess if the Jets' D ever lives up to its potential then maybe we can win with a guy like Cousins.  But as we saw last year, a great defense can get shredded by a good offense in post-season.  The Patriots absolutely shredded the Eagles' D in the SB.

Please stop! Rogers has damn good WRs & has for quite some time.

[Charlie Brown]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

When you give a QB this amount of money, you then don’t have the money for a left tackle. You don’t have the money for a second decent corner. You can’t afford your WR2 or your better LBs. Look at what paying the QB did to the rosters of the Packers, Seahawks, Giants, and Panthers, and all of those QBs are infinitely better than Cousins. 

Ummm what are we doing paying a LT $70 Million Dollars......

[DoubleDown]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

In order for the Jets to "reach" for a QB they have to destroy either their cap space or their draft capital.   They probably don't love any of the QBs who could potentially fall to them at #6 and they have cap space to waste (which is what Cousins will be in the big picture - a waste).  This move will reek of the desperation that the Fitzpatrick and McCown signings did except it's a couple of notches of an improvement.  Maybe it will get them a wildcard appearance but I don't see Cousins getting this franchise across the finish line.  This would be a terrible signing IMO.  Just more of the same from this crap franchise.  Never going for the real solution.  Always with the band-aids.

What's done is done. We can't change the past.

If the draft shakes out the way I think it will shake out, I see Cousins as the team's best chance of success over the next 5 years. It's the position they have put themselves in.

[hawk]

You guys act like your the ones paying the contract.  We need a QB, he is the best known QB available, and the Jets have the space.  The Cap rises every single year and $30 million will be on the cheap in a couple years when new QBs get their deals.  

[David Harris]

It’s been 50 years so why the F not.

[NoBowles]

I don't like it one bit, but if it pisses off T0mShane and dbatesman, I am in like Flynn!

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Please stop! Rogers has damn good WRs & has for quite some time.

Right - and how many wins did Rodgers' backup QB get with those awesome WRs?

[Charlie Brown]

28 minutes ago, harts724 said:

Cousin steps through the door as the best QB Jets have had since Namath and its not even close! I don`t trust the front office to draft a QB and if he doesn't pan out will set francize back ANOTHER 5 years. I`m to old for anymore of this sh*t!

You see for some 40 Plus Years of basically incompetent QB isn't enough!!

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, hawk said:

You guys act like your the ones paying the contract.  We need a QB, he is the best known QB available, and the Jets have the space.  The Cap rises every single year and $30 million will be on the cheap in a couple years when new QBs get their deals.  

I don't care about "best available".  I want to put this team on a path to win a SB.  Josh McCown might've been "best available" last year but look how it (probably) screwed us up.

[Charlie Brown]

7 minutes ago, hawk said:

You guys act like your the ones paying the contract.  We need a QB, he is the best known QB available, and the Jets have the space.  The Cap rises every single year and $30 million will be on the cheap in a couple years when new QBs get their deals.  

Thank you...

[MDL_JET]

How is a fully gauranteed contract a good idea in any way for the cap of this team? Doesn’t that just hinder you every single year with no out if things go wrong? Has there been a positive spin on this? Why it’d be a good idea?

Mac wants to burn this thing to the ground and take everyone with him. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't care about "best available".  I want to put this team on a path to win a SB.  Josh McCown might've been "best available" last year but look how it (probably) screwed us up.

So you're comparing Mccown to Cousins? That's pretty hilarious. Mccown was signed as a stop gap in a rebuilding year. The only other team that wanted him, wanted him to be their backup. Meanwhile, there appears to be numerous teams desperately trying to free up cap space to give this man 30 mill a year after the Redskins just paid him over 40 million over the last 2 years. 

 

[Jetster]

So what's the worst that can happen? 

Sometimes I feel like people here think there will ever be a group here that can bring along a young QB. They resigned Bowles! You sign Cousins & you fix the Oline, draft a stud RB & roll the dice baby! I just f*cking watched a 39 year old QB & probably the worst QB in Petty on any teams roster unable to complete a 5 yard swing pass! 

Guarantee him! Have a masseuse on the sideline for him, have Tom Shane feed him grapes  at halftime in the locker room. Whatever it takes so I don't have to see McCown or Bryce "I have no idea what I'm doing" Petty ever again in a Jets uniform.

[Jetster]

9 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Right - and how many wins did Rodgers' backup QB get with those awesome WRs?

Stop bringing up the BEST QB along with Brady over the last 25 freaking years please. Drives me crazy. Derek Carr & Garapolo are the highest paid QBs in the NFL and if you haven't noticed no one is comparing them to Aaron Rogers & Tom Brady.

[jack48]

35 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I just don't believe the FA route is the way to win.  We need to develop our own FQB for once.  You might be correct about Bowles ruining a young QB.  But he should be fired then (and he should be!)

I say "band aid" because it's the team going for the name QB with flashy stats who isn't a real winner.  Aaron Rodgers would've won division titles and playoff games with the Redskins roster.  Pretty sure Cousins hasn't won a playoff game.

As long as we have a boob coach, I doubt we can bring a young guy in here.

[Jet Blast]

We need a QB and the cold, hard truth is it will cost the team dearly in cash and/or draft picks.

If the Jets want Cousins, they will probably have to pay him around $30M/year. Keep in mind that while the salary of a QB keeps going up, it's not as hard to stomach (for me at least) if you think of it relative to the ever increasing cap.

If the Jets are unwilling to pony up, then they will have to take a chance with a draft pick or picks which is expensive in a different way.

Either way, they MUST do something.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

How is a fully gauranteed contract a good idea in any way for the cap of this team? Doesn’t that just hinder you every single year with no out if things go wrong? Has there been a positive spin on this? Why it’d be a good idea?

Mac wants to burn this thing to the ground and take everyone with him. 

Because Cousins throws for 4,000 - even though he loses.  

It seems a 4,000 yard QB that wins 7-10 games in exactly what the Jets want for the next 5 years.  Honestly, that's about how ambitioous this organization has been.

[Pcola]

16 minutes ago, hawk said:

You guys act like your the ones paying the contract.  We need a QB, he is the best known QB available, and the Jets have the space.  The Cap rises every single year and $30 million will be on the cheap in a couple years when new QBs get their deals.  

And we would be paying the market rate for a QB.  Two years from now, Cousins might not even be in the top 3 highest paid QB.