Can you develop players with a bad QB?

[Jetster]

Jet fans are notorious for expecting pro bowlers for 1st year rookies. Nelson Agahlor would have been run out of town with his penchant to drop balls in the beginning of his career. We already have fans who have buried Stewart & Hansen. 

Meanwhile we've all witnessed numerous Patriot WRs leave the Pats in free agency for huge contracts become huge failures relative to their salary, and new WRs brought in like Welker and Hogan and they become household names. 

The QB matters. There is a reason Josh McCown is called a Journeyman. Or a great BACKUP QB. Our young WRs had no chance of success with Bryce Petty at the helm. The Jets don't need to go crazy in free agency at WR, let's find out what we have in some of these young WRs. To protect themselves if Enunwa can't come back they should target a Robinson or Landry. I think Landry would LOVE to be in NY playing opposite OBJ at MetLife. Especially if he knows Cousins is slinging it to him. 

We'll find what we have in Stewart, Hansen, Leggette, Sterling, maybe Stringfellow, J. Marshall a lot faster than trotting out McCown & a rookie QB. Cousins will speed up the process of evaluation on these guys which helps figure out who needs time & who we need to move on from. The upside to Cousins for Bowles & Macc is the reason I believe they go all out to bring him aboard. For self preservation, Cousins is a no brainer, these guys need wins!

[T0mShane]

8 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Jet fans are notorious for expecting pro bowlers for 1st year rookies. Nelson Agahlor would have been run out of town with his penchant to drop balls in the beginning of his career. We already have fans who have buried Stewart & Hansen. 

Meanwhile we've all witnessed numerous Patriot WRs leave the Pats in free agency for huge contracts become huge failures relative to their salary, and new WRs brought in like Welker and Hogan and they become household names. 

The QB matters. There is a reason Josh McCown is called a Journeyman. Or a great BACKUP QB. Our young WRs had no chance of success with Bryce Petty at the helm. The Jets don't need to go crazy in free agency at WR, let's find out what we have in some of these young WRs. To protect themselves if Enunwa can't come back they should target a Robinson or Landry. I think Landry would LOVE to be in NY playing opposite OBJ at MetLife. Especially if he knows Cousins is slinging it to him. 

We'll find what we have in Stewart, Hansen, Leggette, Sterling, maybe Stringfellow, J. Marshall a lot faster than trotting out McCown & a rookie QB. Cousins will speed up the process of evaluation on these guys which helps figure out who needs time & who we need to move on from. The upside to Cousins for Bowles & Macc is the reason I believe they go all out to bring him aboard. For self preservation, Cousins is a no brainer, these guys need wins!

Alshon Jeffrey, Mike Evans, Travis Benjamin, Gary Barnidge, and Robby Anderson were all young receivers who put up relatively big numbers with McCown. The concern with Stewart, in particular, is that he’s a bad athlete. 

[JetFaninMI]

No I am not looking for pro-bowlers in first year players. Although strange as it may seem other team's management is capable of drafting guys that do become pro-bowlers in their first year. I wonder why that is?

No I do not believe you can develop players with a "bad" QB. The thing is you develop players into a cohesive unit. You let them work AND grow together. Cousins is "developed" already. He is looking to take the next step and that is playoffs and a Super Bowl. He has already been through that stage you're talking about and I doubt at this point he is looking to commit 1-2 years to "see what they got" in some of the guys on the roster. If the Jets can sign Cousins I fully expect them to go all in with FA signings. That means spending on another WR(as you mentioned) plus the OL TE and adding another RB. I wouldn't be surprised if they even added 2 WR's via FA. I don't expect them to add 2 upper tier FA's at the position but 1 upper tier and another from the pack. If Macc just signs Cousins and add's a DB or two in FA and calls it a day I fully expect this team to be under .500 once again.

I am not as confident as you are in the WR corps or any other position on this team. If the true focus is to "see what they got" then the wise move is too go through the draft at QB and sign some skill players on offense. This way the experienced guys on Offense help that young QB develop faster and establish a repertoire with that guy so they function as a unit. Cousins wants to win now. He has stated that this is what is most important to him. We will see how true this is once FA opens and the offers start coming in. If the Jets land him they MUST go all in on skill players and shoring up the OL in FA. If they don't do this I see a little improvement but not going to the next level. We will be another version of the Redskins teams that Cousins has played on in the past.

[joewilly12]

A decent QB makes the WR,TE better.... and in some cases better WR's makes the QB better (Fitzpatrick,Marshall,Decker) here we have none. 

[Lith]

I do agree that an experienced QB can help young WRs (and young OL) develop.  But the problem with the WR position is we have too many of these "Lets see what we have" WRs and not enough established guys to bring a good balance.

Lets see what we have in Robby - talented young player on the field, but lets see if his off field issues will get in the way of his ability to develop into a legit #1 WR.

Lets see what we have in Enunwa.  Productive player before the neck injury, but lets see if he can recover from his injury and be productive again.

Lets see what we have in Stewart.  3rd round pick who saw little playing time and few targets as a rookie.  Lets see if he can be a solid NFL WR.

Lets see what we have in Hansen.  4th round pick who saw a bit more playing time and a few more targets than Stewart.  Lets see if he can be a solid WR.

Lets see what we have in Leggett.  2nd year TE who missed his rookie year due to injury - lets see what he can do.

Lets see what we have in ASJ.  50 receptions, but little impact down the field.  Lets see if he can be a legit downfield target (if we re-sign him).

I could keep going down the list: Sterling, D Smith, J Marshall, JoJo Natson, Stringfellow.  Ton of lets see guys, but no solid established WRs, outside of Kearse who is best suited to be a 2 or 3. 

If Enunwa was healthy and Robby wasn't a butthead off the field, I would feel OK about our receivers, but they are not, so I am not.

 

 

[Lupz27]

52 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Jet fans are notorious for expecting pro bowlers for 1st year rookies. Nelson Agahlor would have been run out of town with his penchant to drop balls in the beginning of his career. We already have fans who have buried Stewart & Hansen. 

Meanwhile we've all witnessed numerous Patriot WRs leave the Pats in free agency for huge contracts become huge failures relative to their salary, and new WRs brought in like Welker and Hogan and they become household names. 

The QB matters. There is a reason Josh McCown is called a Journeyman. Or a great BACKUP QB. Our young WRs had no chance of success with Bryce Petty at the helm. The Jets don't need to go crazy in free agency at WR, let's find out what we have in some of these young WRs. To protect themselves if Enunwa can't come back they should target a Robinson or Landry. I think Landry would LOVE to be in NY playing opposite OBJ at MetLife. Especially if he knows Cousins is slinging it to him. 

We'll find what we have in Stewart, Hansen, Leggette, Sterling, maybe Stringfellow, J. Marshall a lot faster than trotting out McCown & a rookie QB. Cousins will speed up the process of evaluation on these guys which helps figure out who needs time & who we need to move on from. The upside to Cousins for Bowles & Macc is the reason I believe they go all out to bring him aboard. For self preservation, Cousins is a no brainer, these guys need wins!

Can you develop players with a bad QB?

[Adoni Beast]

Not to their potential. Just like its hard to develop other positions with a bad QB, except the trickle down effect is ten fold with a bad QB which is why having a true franchise quarterback is so crucial. 

The franchise QB is basically an extension of the coaching staff and should be the one developing the offense on the field. Setting protections, making sure OLine is set, making sure WR’s are running routes correctly and putting passes in areas where they can excel, and making sure RB’s know their assignments. 

All this while being a leader on and off the field.

Poor QB play will stunt the growth of any offense and every player on it. 

And no one should counter back with well Mark Sanchez sucked but the offense was good. Sanchez had a veteran offense that he had no hand in developing. Once it was his turn to run the show...well we all saw the results.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Alshon Jeffrey, Mike Evans, Travis Benjamin, Gary Barnidge, and Robby Anderson were all young receivers who put up relatively big numbers with McCown. The concern with Stewart, in particular, is that he’s a bad athlete. 

Evans was a 1st I believe & Jefferey a 2nd rounder? WR is all about targets too. Brady can get to his 3rd WR, so Hogan did well with Cook & Edelman. I have no idea yet whether Stewart & Hansen can contribute but I'm not writing them off after a 5-11 season. McCown was always targeting Kearse & Anderson, then ASJ for a while, he rarely had time to look for his 3rd WR in any route.

[August]

When you are developing a young quarterback you need talented receivers around the young quarterback in order to really have a real evaluation. Then the opposite is in question when you have young players, you need to a veteran in order to develop the young receivers. Neither aren’t mutually exclusive btw. 

[MDL_JET]

Writing off any rookie, let alone a WR is stupid. Of course bad QB play plays a role in it. Plays a role in how the whole offense functions. The RB is gonna look like crap with a loaded box because of a weak QB. Line is gonna suck because QB holds on to the ball too long. Is the WR or QBs fault the pass didn't connect. 

 

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Evans was a 1st I believe & Jefferey a 2nd rounder? WR is all about targets too. Brady can get to his 3rd WR, so Hogan did well with Cook & Edelman. I have no idea yet whether Stewart & Hansen can contribute but I'm not writing them off after a 5-11 season. McCown was always targeting Kearse & Anderson, then ASJ for a while, he rarely had time to look for his 3rd WR in any route.

I agree with you. It takes three years to judge receivers. 

[Tinstar]

The Jets somehow managed to developed Robbie Anderson and Quincy Enunwa behind the likes of Geno Smith, Fitzpatrick and josh McCown who the vast majority of this fan base consider garbage QBs . An undrafted free agent and a 6th round pick . That should answer this question .

[Larz]

Other teams can,  but not the jets because reasons 

[jamesr]

A bad QB certainly helps develop your defensive players.  

[Warfish]

Is there some movement to cut Stewart and Hanson this offseason that I was unaware of?

If not, um.....why not just see what they do next year.  

[Beerfish]

developing has less to do with a QB and more to do with an org plan and the balls to let young guys play and make mistakes.

The jets seem to be fine with trotting out D players to succeed or fail but are pretty slow to do so with offensive guys.

[MDL_JET]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is there some movement to cut Stewart and Hanson this offseason that I was unaware of?

If not, um.....why not just see what they do next year.  

There’s always a movement. Pretty sure the whole Jets rookie class of last year is a part of it. 

[Patriot Killa]

Uh.

How about any offensive player that has even played remotely good since Joe Namath left?

 

Those are great examples lmao.

[Dcat]

when we are done answering the question in the O.P., can we answer the other pressing question of whether we can develop a young QB with a bad HC and bad coaching staff?  

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, Tinstar said:

The Jets somehow managed to developed Robbie Anderson and Quincy Enunwa behind the likes of Geno Smith, Fitzpatrick and josh McCown who the vast majority of this fan base consider garbage QBs . An undrafted free agent and a 6th round pick . That should answer this question .

Lets sign Tinstar to the roster and throw him 80% of the passes he too could put up Robbie Anderson numbers. 

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, Tinstar said:

The Jets somehow managed to developed Robbie Anderson and Quincy Enunwa behind the likes of Geno Smith, Fitzpatrick and josh McCown who the vast majority of this fan base consider garbage QBs . An undrafted free agent and a 6th round pick . That should answer this question .

That's right but it's not overnight like Jet fans expect from Stewart & Hansen. In fact Quincy took years & Robbie got his chances because Idzik is a f*cking moron & missed every god damned decent WR in a WR FILLED 2014 draft!

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, jamesr said:

A bad QB certainly helps develop your defensive players.  

Actually quite the opposite, lol. Bowles talks about the GREAT PRACTICES they had with Petty playing the role of QB, lol. Or Fitz for a bit, or McCown, then the real game starts vs a REAL QB, and we all watch & wonder why they can't get off the field on 3rd down? 

Because the defense practices against losers & they already know their weaknesses.

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Is there some movement to cut Stewart and Hanson this offseason that I was unaware of?

If not, um.....why not just see what they do next year.  

That's my point. Until you have an actual QB that can run an offense, put people where they need to be, get the f*cking ball out on time, with some accuracy, you have no idea how good any of these young guys can become. Robbie only ran goes, but, started to show that he could do some in cuts, back shoulder sideline routes ect. It takes time & experience.

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

when we are done answering the question in the O.P., can we answer the other pressing question of whether we can develop a young QB with a bad HC and bad coaching staff?  

We have already come to the conclusion & it's NO! 

Go get Cousins, keep Bowles away from him & gives Bates & Dennison 100% control of the O.

[jamesr]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Actually quite the opposite, lol. Bowles talks about the GREAT PRACTICES they had with Petty playing the role of QB, lol. Or Fitz for a bit, or McCown, then the real game starts vs a REAL QB, and we all watch & wonder why they can't get off the field on 3rd down? 

Because the defense practices against losers & they already know their weaknesses.

I was referring more to all the extra playing time that the D gets in games, rather than practices.  

 

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Alshon Jeffrey, Mike Evans, Travis Benjamin, Gary Barnidge, and Robby Anderson were all young receivers who put up relatively big numbers with McCown. The concern with Stewart, in particular, is that he’s a bad athlete. 

If you go back to earlier in his career, you can also include Fitzgerald & Boldin.

[Fantasy Island]

9 hours ago, Lith said:

I do agree that an experienced QB can help young WRs (and young OL) develop.  But the problem with the WR position is we have too many of these "Lets see what we have" WRs and not enough established guys to bring a good balance.

Lets see what we have in Robby - talented young player on the field, but lets see if his off field issues will get in the way of his ability to develop into a legit #1 WR.

Lets see what we have in Enunwa.  Productive player before the neck injury, but lets see if he can recover from his injury and be productive again.

Lets see what we have in Stewart.  3rd round pick who saw little playing time and few targets as a rookie.  Lets see if he can be a solid NFL WR.

Lets see what we have in Hansen.  4th round pick who saw a bit more playing time and a few more targets than Stewart.  Lets see if he can be a solid WR.

Lets see what we have in Leggett.  2nd year TE who missed his rookie year due to injury - lets see what he can do.

Lets see what we have in ASJ.  50 receptions, but little impact down the field.  Lets see if he can be a legit downfield target (if we re-sign him).

I could keep going down the list: Sterling, D Smith, J Marshall, JoJo Natson, Stringfellow.  Ton of lets see guys, but no solid established WRs, outside of Kearse who is best suited to be a 2 or 3. 

If Enunwa was healthy and Robby wasn't a butthead off the field, I would feel OK about our receivers, but they are not, so I am not.

 

 

Screw JoJo Natson.  He sucks.

[joewilly12]

33 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

I could keep going down the list: Sterling,

Neal Sterling will do good things here if given the opportunity. 

[Jetworks]

8 hours ago, Larz said:

Other teams can,  but not the jets because reasons 

Modz, please change title from "Can you develop players with a bad QB?" to 'Can you develop players with a bad Coach?' to more accurately address Larz's(z?) reasons. Thankya.

[jgb]

12 hours ago, Jetster said:

Jet fans are notorious for expecting pro bowlers for 1st year rookies. Nelson Agahlor would have been run out of town with his penchant to drop balls in the beginning of his career. We already have fans who have buried Stewart & Hansen. 

Meanwhile we've all witnessed numerous Patriot WRs leave the Pats in free agency for huge contracts become huge failures relative to their salary, and new WRs brought in like Welker and Hogan and they become household names. 

The QB matters. There is a reason Josh McCown is called a Journeyman. Or a great BACKUP QB. Our young WRs had no chance of success with Bryce Petty at the helm. The Jets don't need to go crazy in free agency at WR, let's find out what we have in some of these young WRs. To protect themselves if Enunwa can't come back they should target a Robinson or Landry. I think Landry would LOVE to be in NY playing opposite OBJ at MetLife. Especially if he knows Cousins is slinging it to him. 

We'll find what we have in Stewart, Hansen, Leggette, Sterling, maybe Stringfellow, J. Marshall a lot faster than trotting out McCown & a rookie QB. Cousins will speed up the process of evaluation on these guys which helps figure out who needs time & who we need to move on from. The upside to Cousins for Bowles & Macc is the reason I believe they go all out to bring him aboard. For self preservation, Cousins is a no brainer, these guys need wins!

Really disagree. If anything Jets fans tend to hang on too long. When Geno started a game last year, it reignited the whole "Geno never got a fair shake here" debate. If Geno were drafted by Miami or the Bills we would've been mocking the pick by week 4 his rookie year. But because he was a Jet we can't let go. Even after he is gone.

[New York Mick]

The kicker and punter

[rangerous]

the bottom line is it's a team sport and no single player can do it all by himself.  the qb and the wrs have got to work together to get the job done.  neither will look very good if the other is struggling.  too often we see the qb's lock onto certain receivers at the expense of the other.  fitzy locked on marshall.  mccown locked on kearse and kerley and, at times, asj and anderson.  who knows who petty was locking on.  and these guys all have egos.  when the team isn't winning these egos come to the forefront and impact the teamwork needed to win in the first place.  it's all great to see the one handed grabs but when it turns into a common practice, as opposed to catching the ball the right way, it can become a serious problem.

[Stark]

22 hours ago, Jetster said:

We have already come to the conclusion & it's NO! 

Go get Cousins, keep Bowles away from him & gives Bates & Dennison 100% control of the O.

Bowles should have been fired. his boy Rogers should have already been fired. Bowles getting involved with offense in anyway, shape, or form can't be good. Hell he can't even make our defense look good, and that was supposed to be his specialty.

Still on the Fire Bowles bandwagon

[Jetster]

16 hours ago, New York Mick said:

The kicker and punter

Lol, and our Kickers were pretty damn good last year, lol. Practice makes perfect.

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, Stark said:

Bowles should have been fired. his boy Rogers should have already been fired. Bowles getting involved with offense in anyway, shape, or form can't be good. Hell he can't even make our defense look good, and that was supposed to be his specialty.

Still on the Fire Bowles bandwagon

I'm not a fan of Bowles either, but a guy like Cousins can cover some of his warts if he gets out of Bates & Dennisons way.