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REAL REASON why we should go all in for Kirk Cousins


Villain The Foe

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5 hours ago, NoBowles said:

Another option would have been to fire the bozos who have no idea what they are doing (aka Mac and Bowles) and bring in people who do, draft and develop a QB and have 4 years of him on a rookie contract. Or we can Jet on and keep the bozos, and spend an ungodly amount of money hoping to go 9-7 if everything breaks right every year. 

JET ON!

So I guess nothing has to break right by firing the coach and front office and drafting/developing a QB while drafting and developing talent around that developing QB? 

 

JET FAN ON. 

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

kirk Cousins is not consistent. He money in road games against non-divisional opposition 

 

meanwhile he sh*ts his pants in the division. 

no one in the NFC East is relieved this player is gone.

They scouted him, know his weaknesses and own his ass left and right. 

as a Redskins fan about Kirk Cousins they call him the king of the game ending interception

Jets fans want him to be good so they look at the numbers

look at the pick he throws in teh first half of the week 17 Giants game. That's Kirk Cousins. 

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18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

kirk Cousins is not consistent. He money in road games against non-divisional opposition 

 

meanwhile he sh*ts his pants in the division. 

no one in the NFC East is relieved this player is gone.

They scouted him, know his weaknesses and own his ass left and right. 

as a Redskins fan about Kirk Cousins they call him the king of the game ending interception

Jets fans want him to be good so they look at the numbers

look at the pick he throws in teh first half of the week 17 Giants game. That's Kirk Cousins. 

To a degree you have a point, but when you're Kirk Cousins going up against the Cowboys in 2016 and you throw for 450 yards, 3 TD's, complete almost 80% of the 53 passes thrown and you lose the game....or in 2017 against the Eagles and throws for over 300 yards, completes 75% of his 40 passes, throws 3 TD's and lose the game.....

C'mon. That doesn't sound like sh*tting pants to me. 

 

For what its worth though, The Eagles Giants and Cowboys are better opponents than the Dolphins and Bills. The Eagles just won a SB against the Pats, the Giants beat the Pats twice for 2 SB's and the Cowboys have one of the better offenses in football with arguably the best offensive line and running back. 

The Patriots are 1-4 against the NFC East in SB's and the NFC East teams as a group is better than the AFC East. Kirk Cousins wouldn't have the same problems going up against the Bills and Dolphins as he would Dak Prescott, Carson Wentz and Eli Manning. He basically will see Tom Brady Ryan Tannehill and however is the Bills QB. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

If you want to look at what we could get look at Joe Flacco.  The team won the suerpbowl and then gave him the farm and had to trim a lot of useful players, they have never recovered and Flacco though not totally awful does not help them win.

Since the Ravens won the Super Bowl, they've been too the playoffs or have been in the playoff hunt (like last year) ever since. Without him, they're trash.

Having a competent QB makes all the difference. And Cousins is more than just competent. He's a top 7 QB (statistically).

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3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

When you have no QB there is no price not willing to be paid in order to stabilise the position. It's only a fools move if it doesn't work or when you give 15 million to Ryan Fitzpatrick and 6 Million to Josh McCown. 

That would be better than our last 5 years since we haven't had a playoff appearance in 7 years and within the last 5 seasons we have a 4 win season, to pair of 5 win seasons, an 8 win season and a 10 win season where we missed the playoffs playing the easiest schedule in franchise history. 

You mean to tell me that this isn't a laughing stock now? Oh wait, it only becomes a laughing stock when you sign Kirk Cousins to a mega deal, not when you allow Ryan Fitzpatrick to bend you over a barrel for an entire offseason or watch Decker, Marshall and Mangold act like children and divide the locker room over a journeyman QB?

 

Please. We can give Cousins a mega deal and watch as it goes down in blood-orange flames and that wouldn't be as bad as watching Geno get knocked out, Fitz becoming the "2nd coming of the magic beard" only to turn into Satan and watching the front office actually believe that drafting Hackenberg in the 2nd round was a good idea. 

 

Pay Kirk the money. 

Here's the problem with your way of thinkging - at least from my perspective. 

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying - Jets have been bad, have had horrible QB play, hvae been a laughing stock and Cousins will be a big step in solving those basic problems.

Exxcept I don't beleive we can or will win a championship with Cousins, especially at that price - floundering in mediocrity is not what I want - it's Championship or bust for mel.

Many fans are traumatized by this mess of an oirganization and basic competancy will make them happy - that certainly seems to be Mac's and The Johnsons's positions - and many fans like you.

I would rather dare to be great - draft a QB tht has the potential to win us 12-13 games a year and be a perennial SuperBowl contender.

Sure, there's a very good chance this new QB will fail or never reach the potential I would like - but I, personally, would rather role the dice than accept mediocrity.

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We certainly dont need to start another KC thread so I will ask it here.

Couple of "what if" scenarios.

If Cousins was the starting QB for the NEP this past season would they have made it to the Super Bowl?

If BB coaches 6-8 more years and instead of Brady (dont shake your head, use your imagination) Kirk Cousins is now their QB, would they make it to the big show 2-3 times?

I say yes and yes and I would add to that if Cousins was the starter for the Eagles this past season they also would have made it this year.

 

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Here's the problem with your way of thinkging - at least from my perspective. 

I don't disagree with most of what you're saying - Jets have been bad, have had horrible QB play, hvae been a laughing stock and Cousins will be a big step in solving those basic problems.

Exxcept I don't beleive we can or will win a championship with Cousins, especially at that price - floundering in mediocrity is not what I want - it's Championship or bust for mel.

Many fans are traumatized by this mess of an oirganization and basic competancy will make them happy - that certainly seems to be Mac's and The Johnsons's positions - and many fans like you.

I would rather dare to be great - draft a QB tht has the potential to win us 12-13 games a year and be a perennial SuperBowl contender.

Sure, there's a very good chance this new QB will fail or never reach the potential I would like - but I, personally, would rather role the dice than accept mediocrity.

This is just your belief though, check this out. 

We've followed this trend of drafting a QB and it has done nothing. In early 2017 the Jets had drafted more QB's than any other team over a 10 year span. If im correct the Jets have drafted 12 QB's since 2000. That's almost 1 QB per season drafted. Imagine if we had a Kirk Cousins during that Fitzpatrick 10 and 6 season. Imagine having a Kirk Cousins during Sanchez first two seasons. You telling me that Sanchez/Fitz made this better than having Kirk Cousins? You telling me Geno Smith was a better option than Kirk Cousins? How about Christian Hackenberg or Bryce Petty? They're both on this roster and were both drafted by this very regime. 

Daring to be great is actually daring to do something that can be considered risky. 


How is drafting our 13th QB daring to be great and not floundering in mediocrity and being all about Championship or bust when all we've done is flounder in mediocrity and we've not been to the playoffs in almost a decade???? We have to get to the playoffs first before we talk about championship or bust. 

If folks really want to be great then that starts with stability at the QB position because there isn't one team in the league that is great that doesn't have one. Sure, there are teams that if they had one would be great (Jags), but you know what? That position will hold them back just like it's holding every team that doesn't have one back. And you know what? The Jags Drafted Bortles. 

The bottomline is this, can Kirk Cousins play the position? If the answer is "Yes" then pay the money. 

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3 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

We certainly dont need to start another KC thread so I will ask it here.

Couple of "what if" scenarios.

If Cousins was the starting QB for the NEP this past season would they have made it to the Super Bowl?

If BB coaches 6-8 more years and instead of Brady (dont shake your head, use your imagination) Kirk Cousins is now their QB, would they make it to the big show 2-3 times?

I say yes and yes and I would add to that if Cousins was the starter for the Eagles this past season they also would have made it this year.

 

The crazy part of it is this. 

If the Jets paid Jimmy Garappolo what the 49ers just paid him folks would be stoked because he came from the Paaaaaaaatriots. 

Dude has done nothing in this league to warrant the contract amount given outside of potential. Meanwhile Kirk Cousins has done more to earn this contract than Jimmy has but the backlash is great because he isn't "Tom Brady" but we could give Jimmy G that contract because he was in a pats uniform. 

Now, im not hating on Jimmy G, and I think that the 9ers would have been fools not to give him that contract. On the same note, we all know that Jimmy G's contract would have been greater if he hit the open market. We'll, Kirk has done more in this league and is actually on the open market. 

What's the problem paying a guy that produces. The "He's not elite" is not an excuse because there's only a couple of Elite QB's but its not elite QB's winning the SB every single season. When's the last time Aaron Rodgers participated in the SB? How about Drew Brees? 

And sure, there are some top QB's that are not elite but are lower tier and have not made the playoffs or deep runs like Phillip Rivers. However, my question to everyone is "Where the hell would the Chargers be if you gave them Josh McCown, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Geno Smith, Christian Hackenberg, Bryce Petty or Mark Sanchez"? Phillip Rivers gives that team a chance every season and in his prime the dude was putting up MVP type numbers. 

In his past 10 Seasons Rivers has thrown for over 4,000 yards 9 times, averaged about 63% passing and in his last 3 seasons has averaged 30 TD's passing. 

It's a team sport, but the QB is not the Chargers problem, it's the front office and coaching. The Chargers have also needed an offensive line. Since trading for Rivers the Chargers have used just one 1st round pick on an Olineman which was DJ Fluker...and he's currently a NY Giant. 

The problem with the Jets, like many other teams is stupidity. Similar to the Jets drafting defense for a decade straight, busting on a good portion, not drafting 1 all-pro and not establishing a top defense while also drafting the most QB's going back a decade yet providing NOTHING on the offensive side of the ball because of the usage of high draft picks on defense. 

Signing Kirk Cousins to a massive contract in an effort to provide a QB with history of production in the pros isn't as crazy as drafting defense in the 1st round for a decade straight and completely alienating the offense. 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, bitonti said:

Here's a guy that is terrible at drafting QB's. Let's give him 150 million dollars to spend at the free agent QB store. 

 

cause that always works out 

Cousins is a known commodity, though.  Look @ the past three years. 

We all know the guy is going to be overpaid because a. he's a free agent and b. he's a quarterback.  The real question is guaranteed money. 

Care to go on record with a figure that you think is appropriate in that department?  

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8 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

So I guess nothing has to break right by firing the coach and front office and drafting/developing a QB while drafting and developing talent around that developing QB? 

 

JET FAN ON. 

I honestly don’t understand what you are trying to say here.

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IF we draft a QB and he goes on to throw for an average of 4,200 yards, 27 TDs and 12 INTs for the next three seasons, we will be soiling ourselves with joy.  But if we sign Cousins and he does the same exact thing (which is what he has done for the last three years), half of us will apparently be disappointed.  I can't figure out why that is.

Can we at least agree that if he puts up the same numbers here he did in WAS we will be happy no matter what we paid him?

 

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7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Why do you go insane once a year about one QB VTF?  Like it's clock work half way through off season you latch on to one guy and think he is the messiah and go whole hog over board.  These QB agents would love you as a gm.

Not gonna lie, him promoting the hell out of Cousins, now has me a bit worried of signing him. 

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2 hours ago, nycdan said:

IF we draft a QB and he goes on to throw for an average of 4,200 yards, 27 TDs and 12 INTs for the next three seasons, we will be soiling ourselves with joy.  But if we sign Cousins and he does the same exact thing (which is what he has done for the last three years), half of us will apparently be disappointed.  I can't figure out why that is.

Can we at least agree that if he puts up the same numbers here he did in WAS we will be happy no matter what we paid him?

 

If we draft Mayfield and he’s half as good as Cousins instead of a MarkSanchez clone  people here will be floating endlessly 

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On 2/22/2018 at 7:10 AM, Greensleeves said:

which is a main reason that is overlooked on why Cousins may not want to come here - the head coach is a defensive guy that still doesn't understand it's an offensive league in the regular season. An explosive offense can mask a lot of holes on the defense. 

I would much rather pick our own QB and have Bates develop him into a better QB than Cousins is going to be. I'd rather set my sites much higher than settling for a solid QB.

I like this point. Adding to it, a defensive stop is great. A big stop followed up by a quick score from your competent offense can be a game-breaker. Even a defensive coach has got to appreciate that.

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13 hours ago, bitonti said:

Here's a guy that is terrible at drafting QB's. Let's give him 150 million dollars to spend at the free agent QB store. 

 

cause that always works out 

Disagree with you on this one but your post did make me laugh and it's a good point. I counter that we already know that Macc stinks at drafting QBs. Dumping money on one in FA actually sees like the lower-risk bet at this point.

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We might not lure him here but Macc & Bowles are going to go all out to try. Bowles doesn't like playing rookies, and I'm not going to kill him for that belief as great coaches like Parcells liked playing veterans too. 

The most significant part of this is Kirk Cousins is a proven QB literally entering his prime. He's thrown for over 25 TDs three years straight. He would be working with Bates & Dennison who run the same system he accomplished this in. So it's pretty much guaranteed he can match that in NY & could easily do better if Macc can surround him with a good Oline & group of offensive weapons. 

This is such a NO BRAINER for a team like the Jets that can't work with WHAT IFS, they need to win the Cousins sweepstakes. No one is saying if they miss they won't get lucky in the draft with whoever they end up with at QB. It's a huge gamble with no certainty. Signing Cousins eliminates that uncertainty.

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15 hours ago, nycdan said:

IF we draft a QB and he goes on to throw for an average of 4,200 yards, 27 TDs and 12 INTs for the next three seasons, we will be soiling ourselves with joy.  But if we sign Cousins and he does the same exact thing (which is what he has done for the last three years), half of us will apparently be disappointed.  I can't figure out why that is.

Can we at least agree that if he puts up the same numbers here he did in WAS we will be happy no matter what we paid him?

 

It's about wins and losses - passing yards is meaningless .  If we draft a QB and he has an overall losing record after 4 seasons, one 9-7 season with one wildcard playoff loss - the fans will be calling for him to be cut. I don't care how many yards he throws for...We're about to pay that guy - a career losing QB - $150mm+

Cousins has shown he's not a winner.  You can pass for less yards but play your best football when it matters. 

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27 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's about wins and losses - passing yards is meaningless .  If we draft a QB and he has an overall losing record after 4 seasons, one 9-7 season with one wildcard playoff loss - the fans will be calling for him to be cut. I don't care how many yards he throws for...We're about to pay that guy - a career losing QB - $150mm+

Cousins has shown he's not a winner.  You can pass for less yards but play your best football when it matters. 

way to completely ignore that sh*t team he played for. :rolleyes:

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30 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's about wins and losses - passing yards is meaningless .  If we draft a QB and he has an overall losing record after 4 seasons, one 9-7 season with one wildcard playoff loss - the fans will be calling for him to be cut. I don't care how many yards he throws for...We're about to pay that guy - a career losing QB - $150mm+

Cousins has shown he's not a winner.  You can pass for less yards but play your best football when it matters. 

I work in DC.  The fans have never been calling for him to be cut.

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

It's about wins and losses - passing yards is meaningless .  If we draft a QB and he has an overall losing record after 4 seasons, one 9-7 season with one wildcard playoff loss - the fans will be calling for him to be cut. I don't care how many yards he throws for...We're about to pay that guy - a career losing QB - $150mm+

Cousins has shown he's not a winner.  You can pass for less yards but play your best football when it matters. 

You are correlating the QB's performance to the W-L record.  I'm not sure that's entirely fair.  Other players, scheme, in-game coaching all matter.  Would Tom Brady have done much better on the Redskins?  How would Cousins have done on the Patriots?  I don't think they would have absolutely reversed their W-L records, but I think they would both be far different.

Cousins' splits are worth looking at.  His quarter splits don't tell much of a story.  He is about as effective in the 4th quarter as the rest.  Where you may have more of an argument is his 3rd down stats are a little worse than his 1st and 2nd down stats, but again, that may be due to play-calling or other factors.  An interesting data point but not a whole story.  FWIW, Tom Brady's down splits are nearly identical.  Particularly 3rd down situations.

FWIW, in his one playoff game in the last 3 years he passed for 329 yards with 1TD, 0 INT and an 91.7 rating.  WAS gave up 38 points to the Packers.  I don't know that you can hang that loss on Cousins.  

[EDIT: Just to add, WAS rushed for a total of 84 yards that game, with 1 TD...by Cousins.  By comparison, GB rushed for 141.  Also, Cousins was sacked 6 times.  Maybe some were his fault, but clearly his OL wasn't excelling]

I'm not saying he'll be the next Brady, but right now, I would be ecstatic with Matt Ryan level play and that's about what I think we can expect.  Then we need to do more with the rest of the team to bring us all the way.  I do not think Cousins will bring down a SB worthy team.  I do think he can elevate a team that is close just enough.  Not Brady/Manning, but better than all but maybe 5-6 QBs in the league and that is more than enough.

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42 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's about wins and losses - passing yards is meaningless .  If we draft a QB and he has an overall losing record after 4 seasons, one 9-7 season with one wildcard playoff loss - the fans will be calling for him to be cut. I don't care how many yards he throws for...We're about to pay that guy - a career losing QB - $150mm+

Cousins has shown he's not a winner.  You can pass for less yards but play your best football when it matters. 

You do realize that the Redskins defense was / is even worse than the NYJ?

Of course you do right?

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54 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

It's about wins and losses - passing yards is meaningless .  If we draft a QB and he has an overall losing record after 4 seasons, one 9-7 season with one wildcard playoff loss - the fans will be calling for him to be cut. I don't care how many yards he throws for...We're about to pay that guy - a career losing QB - $150mm+

Cousins has shown he's not a winner.  You can pass for less yards but play your best football when it matters. 

21, 28 and 28th - those are the rankings of the Redskins Team defense the 3 years cousins has started.  Lets blame him for only being .500

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