anybody but BAKER MAYFIELD

[Villain The Foe]

9 hours ago, Jetscreen said:

See this is a little of what I'm talking about. He's not pro ready and I think everyone knows that, but more specifically lets talk about what needs work.

1) He does not sell play action very well at all. It seems like he just kind of goes through the motions? In contrast, Pennington was one of the very best I saw sell play action.

2) It's not really shown in this tape because the routes being shown are mostly timing routes, but what I saw in the game against Georgia was a lot of high throws to intended receivers. They were accurate enough to be caught, but I didn't see him hit his receivers in stride? So they could stretch the play more than they were able to.

That's just two things I see about his game that I think needs improvement. Look, I'm not criticizing the guy? I like him. I want Mac to take him, I just know he needs work. But because he's at a good place to start coaching him IMO, I could see him starting by like week 8 or 9 of this season?

Guys be wanting rookies to look like 10 year vets.  

He's a soon to be rookie on the professional level. 

What are you saying really? 

Maybe perspective is the problem here. 

[jetsons]

Also it doesn't help that jamal has Not played up to his mouth... if he had earned all prro or rookie of the year it wouldn't have rubbed the people the way it does... jmo

His height is no longer up for debate - he measured 6 feet (and a half inch) at the combine and senior bowl.Brees is 6 feet, Russell Wilson is 5 11" - two Super Bowl winning QB's.  

I think you meant your response for someone else. 

[jgb]

On 3/10/2018 at 2:00 AM, FidelioJet said:

His height is no longer up for debate - he measured 6 feet (and a half inch) at the combine and senior bowl.

Brees is 6 feet, Russell Wilson is 5 11" - two Super Bowl winning QB's.  

The reason Brees and Wilson are so celebrated is because what they're done as 6 footers is so rare and unexpected. Mayfield's height is a concern and it should be. It just increases the obstacles to him being successful. Like the 40 or hand size or any other measurable, it's a piece of the puzzle that must be considered in the aggregate.

Now I like Mayfield but citing 2 "short" HOF QBs is an argument for their exceptionalism, not for the irrelevance of height.

[southtown24th]

Yeah, I am over this kid.  He's a clown.  Johnny Manziel 2.0 for sure.

[FidelioJet]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

The reason Brees and Wilson are so celebrated is because what they're done as 6 footers is so rare and unexpected. Mayfield's height is a concern and it should be. It just increases the obstacles to him being successful. Like the 40 or hand size or any other measurable, it's a piece of the puzzle that must be considered in the aggregate.

Now I like Mayfield but citing 2 "short" HOF QBs is an argument for their exceptionalism, not for the irrelevant of height.

No, Brees and Wilson are celebrated because they're very good NFL QB's...SuperBowling winning QB's.  I mentioned their height soley for the purpose of the discussion about Mayfield here. Pointiing to those two is to simply to prove that it's certainly possible to be successful.   This was only made in refernce to people that want to pass on him simply because he's short - not taking into account the othe factors.

No one is saying his height shouldn't be a concern (the comments of his height not being in quesiion was in response to someine saying he was shorter than advertised - the quesion of - How tall is he - is no longer up for debate.  we know with pretty much certainty he's a little over 6 feet. 

As for your other point - I couldn't agree more, the height is a concerning factor and needs to be taken seriously.

And as you said - just like any other factor -  atrm strength, accuracy, poise, readiig defenses, release speed, athleticism etc...

Mayfield checks every other box at a high level.

[CTM]

6 hours ago, jgb said:

The reason Brees and Wilson are so celebrated is because what they're done as 6 footers is so rare and unexpected. Mayfield's height is a concern and it should be. It just increases the obstacles to him being successful. Like the 40 or hand size or any other measurable, it's a piece of the puzzle that must be considered in the aggregate.

Now I like Mayfield but citing 2 "short" HOF QBs is an argument for their exceptionalism, not for the irrelevant of height.

Yep. Like pointing out a team with a weak passing that makes the playoffs to prove you don't need a top QB. Of course you don't "need" a QB, there is no playoff entrance criteria around Qbr, but the odds of making the playoffs are much better if you one. 

I can't decide if I like Mayfield or Rosen best and height is one of the bigger knocks against Mayfield for me. 

[Philc1]

[Villain The Foe]

 

[jgb]

16 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

No, Brees and Wilson are celebrated because they're very good NFL QB's...SuperBowling winning QB's.  I mentioned their height soley for the purpose of the discussion about Mayfield here. Pointiing to those two is to simply to prove that it's certainly possible to be successful.   This was only made in refernce to people that want to pass on him simply because he's short - not taking into account the othe factors.

No one is saying his height shouldn't be a concern (the comments of his height not being in quesiion was in response to someine saying he was shorter than advertised - the quesion of - How tall is he - is no longer up for debate.  we know with pretty much certainty he's a little over 6 feet. 

As for your other point - I couldn't agree more, the height is a concerning factor and needs to be taken seriously.

And as you said - just like any other factor -  atrm strength, accuracy, poise, readiig defenses, release speed, athleticism etc...

Mayfield checks every other box at a high level.

Yes, they are exceptional. That's why they are celebrated. We're talking past each other.

A lot of things are possible. PowerBall is possible. Does that mean you should invest your 401k in tickets? 

The NFL Draft is about probabilities. Not possibilities. At least in the first round.

[BCJet]

Why is Mayfield's height an issue - he played with at LT who was 6'7 and it wasn't a problem and he didnt have a ton of batted balls.

Its not just comparison to Wilson and Brees as to whether or not Mayfield will be as good as they are in his career as frankly thats seems a bit harsh to compare a guy who hasn't played to a Hall of Famer.  The comparison is more to the fact that Brees and Wilson should have been drafted higher and weren't, strictly due to height.  Now that teams see that height isn't an issue, Mayfield becomes a higher pick which is the point of the comparison

[Philc1]

On 3/11/2018 at 9:53 AM, BCJet said:

Why is Mayfield's height an issue - he played with at LT who was 6'7 and it wasn't a problem and he didnt have a ton of batted balls.

Its not just comparison to Wilson and Brees as to whether or not Mayfield will be as good as they are in his career as frankly thats seems a bit harsh to compare a guy who hasn't played to a Hall of Famer.  The comparison is more to the fact that Brees and Wilson should have been drafted higher and weren't, strictly due to height.  Now that teams see that height isn't an issue, Mayfield becomes a higher pick which is the point of the comparison

Mayfield was always in shotgun in college that’s why

 

 

For every Wilson or Brees there’s plenty of 6’0 and below qbs who weren’t good

[BCJet]

33 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Mayfield was always in shotgun in college that’s why

 

 

For every Wilson or Brees there’s plenty of 6’0 and below qbs who weren’t good

And for every tall, strong armed QB like Philip Rivers, there are a bunch of Mike Glennon's  - height is meaningless

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, BCJet said:

And for every tall, strong armed QB like Philip Rivers, there are a bunch of Mike Glennon's  - height is meaningless

I don't know if using an overrated QB like Rivers as an example helps but I get the point.

[lounap23]

34 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Mayfield was always in shotgun in college that’s why

 

 

For every Wilson or Brees there’s plenty of 6’0 and below qbs who weren’t good

The idea of a QB needs to know how to play under center is old and out dates.. If my memory serves me well something like 70% of all snaps were from shotgun last year in the NFL... Whereas the number in 1998 was 35%... So He will be playing Shotgun quite a bit

[BCJet]

13 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

The idea of a QB needs to know how to play under center is old and out dates.. If my memory serves me well something like 70% of all snaps were from shotgun last year in the NFL... Whereas the number in 1998 was 35%... So He will be playing Shotgun quite a bit

Its not only that, but the narrative that these guys need to learn to play under center is more draft talk then an actual thing.  We are talking about elite level athletes that have been playing QB their whole lives.  They can learn to take a snap and hand the ball off - mariota hasnt had an issue, and neither has watson.  Its not a big deal

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, BCJet said:

Its not only that, but the narrative that these guys need to learn to play under center is more draft talk then an actual thing.  We are talking about elite level athletes that have been playing QB their whole lives.  They can learn to take a snap and hand the ball off - mariota hasnt had an issue, and neither has watson.  Its not a big deal

It is a big deal when you haven’t had an in game rep taking 3 and 5 step drops since high school.  And it’s hurt a lot of guys Paxton Lynch and Tim tebow says wut up

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, lounap23 said:

The idea of a QB needs to know how to play under center is old and out dates.. If my memory serves me well something like 70% of all snaps were from shotgun last year in the NFL... Whereas the number in 1998 was 35%... So He will be playing Shotgun quite a bit

Your memory is as shot as your ability to evaluate qbs no teams are taking 70% of offensive snaps in the shotgun in the nfl

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Mayfield was always in shotgun in college that’s why

 

 

For every Wilson or Brees there’s plenty of 6’0 and below qbs who weren’t good

Plenty of qb's who were utter trash and had the height, frame and arm.

Height is an excuse. Baker is over 6 foot. Shotgun is also an excuse. Baker ran alot of RPO out of that shotgun. You know what prolific offenses ran that successfully this year? Philly and Minny...both teams qb's played overwhelmingly out of shotgun.

And just becase someone plays shotgun doesnt mean they camt play under center. Every year i hear that comment made yet every year i see college qbs drafted. Qb's that most didnt play in a pro style offense. Matter of fact, what does "pro style" mean anymore? Some of the younger qb's playing more under center also have prolific rushing attacks (Dak Prescott, Jared Goff) but for the most part the trend is shotgun. There's alot of presnap reads you can make and since running backs are more like catching backs, the need for I formations simply isnt what it used to be. Also, with younger qb's being drafted and playing immediately, teams are implementing what the qb is used to and what they had success with...not what they think is pro style. Sure, you dont have as great a play action from shotgun, but the run pass option has literally made players MVP's of the league (Cam Newton) and Wentz was in the convo before his injury. 

This "shotgun" issue isnt an issue...neither is his height. 

[jetsfansince7]

he is the one QB I dont want the Jets to take and the one I feel like our Gm will end up taking. Our GM has proven to be one of the leagues worst judges on drafting QBs as well
He traded up to get Petty who he said had a very high ceiling-next up Hack simply a terrible QB that most fans knew would be terrible-he is in fact so bad the Jets wont even play him in meaningless games. Mayfield is going to be the next johnny football and hope to god the jets dont draft him. I would even rather they go defense again with the one over him as some how even though we draft defensive first every year we have one of the worst defensive units in the league
 
 

Don’t worry. We will take Hackenallen at 6


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[jetsfansince7]

The blessing of this moving the draft around thing is we don't have to hear an entire Radio City Music Hall chanting for Baker Mayfield before they take Denzel Ward.  
 
WHOOOOOO? 

If we take a CB in the first I’ll go be a Rams fan.


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[detectivekimble]

What's the big deal?  He has a strong arm and he's accurate.  So he could be good.

What do the Jets have to lose?  They already suck.  If Mayfield sucks, you're back in the top 10 with a chance at another top QB prospect.

[Philc1]

On 3/9/2018 at 4:56 PM, Villain The Foe said:

Guys be wanting rookies to look like 10 year vets.  

He's a soon to be rookie on the professional level. 

What are you saying really? 

Maybe perspective is the problem here. 

10 year vets?  How about not getting arrested for public intoxication?  Maybe Robby and Baker can share a jail cell after they celebrate us going 5-11 next season

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

What's the big deal?  He has a strong arm and he's accurate.  So he could be good.

What do the Jets have to lose?  They already suck.  If Mayfield sucks, you're back in the top 10 with a chance at another top QB prospect.

Bomb for Fromm!

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Plenty of qb's who were utter trash and had the height, frame and arm.

Height is an excuse. Baker is over 6 foot. Shotgun is also an excuse. Baker ran alot of RPO out of that shotgun. You know what prolific offenses ran that successfully this year? Philly and Minny...both teams qb's played overwhelmingly out of shotgun.

And just becase someone plays shotgun doesnt mean they camt play under center. Every year i hear that comment made yet every year i see college qbs drafted. Qb's that most didnt play in a pro style offense. Matter of fact, what does "pro style" mean anymore? Some of the younger qb's playing more under center also have prolific rushing attacks (Dak Prescott, Jared Goff) but for the most part the trend is shotgun. There's alot of presnap reads you can make and since running backs are more like catching backs, the need for I formations simply isnt what it used to be. Also, with younger qb's being drafted and playing immediately, teams are implementing what the qb is used to and what they had success with...not what they think is pro style. Sure, you dont have as great a play action from shotgun, but the run pass option has literally made players MVP's of the league (Cam Newton) and Wentz was in the convo before his injury. 

This "shotgun" issue isnt an issue...neither is his height. 

When your center and both guards are both way taller than you it can be a problem

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

When your center and both guards are both way taller than you it can be a problem

And yet it isnt. 

[lounap23]

On 3/12/2018 at 1:52 PM, Philc1 said:

Your memory is as shot as your ability to evaluate qbs no teams are taking 70% of offensive snaps in the shotgun in the nfl

Your right just checked for accuracy in 2016 it was 63% and in 2017 it was 58%

 

https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html

 

Still, QB is in Shotgun more than under center... and 80% of the time they throw from shotgun...  Compared to 70% of the time running the ball when they are under center..  reading  defenses whether under C or in Shotgun doesn't change for a QB... So if the Average QB throws the ball 30 times a game... the reality is he is dropping back to throw 3-4 times a game.... So we are gonna completely evaluate a QB based off of this.  something a QB does at the high end 8% of the time....    The most important thing in my statement  here is about reading defenses.... Petty's downfall... never did it in college... still learning in the NFL... We need to find a guy that can do that. to go along with accuracy and all that stuff.. JMO

[Adoni Beast]

On 3/12/2018 at 11:11 PM, detectivekimble said:

What's the big deal?  He has a strong arm and he's accurate.  So he could be good.

What do the Jets have to lose?  They already suck.  If Mayfield sucks, you're back in the top 10 with a chance at another top QB prospect.

I couldn’t agree more with this. I feel that a lot of our fan base feels that if we draft a first round QB who busts, we’ll be thrown out of the league. Who cares?! We’ll suck if we don’t get a QB anyway. So might as well try for one. 

[joewilly12]

This franchise and this fan base needs Baker Mayfield. 

[joewilly12]

View image on Twitter

 

Jeff Darlington

 

✔@JeffDarlington

 

Jets GM Mike Maccagnan watching Baker Mayfield warm up before his throwing session.

12:36 PM - Mar 14, 2018

[joewilly12]

Mayfield throwing now at Oklahoma Pro Day NFL Network 

[Gen X Jet]

36 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

View image on Twitter

 

Jeff Darlington

 

✔@JeffDarlington

 

Jets GM Mike Maccagnan watching Baker Mayfield warm up before his throwing session.

12:36 PM - Mar 14, 2018

Shouldn't Macaggnon be on the horn with agents right now?

 

 

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Gen X Jet said:

Shouldn't Macaggnon be on the horn with agents right now?

 

 

Theres a new invention called a cell phone, and I'm glad he's doing his due diligence on Baker I don't trust Todd Bowles not that I trust Macc but he's the better option. 

[RSJ]

I hope Mac brought binoculars so he can see the little guy


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[Villain The Foe]

I just heard that Mayfields Pro day is live on NFL network. If you have gamepass you can rewind to the beginning (for us folks out of the US.)

[IndianaJet]

6 minutes ago, Gen X Jet said:

Shouldn't Macaggnon be on the horn with agents right now?

 

 

Actually no.  He should be right where he is.  The most important thing for him to be doing right now is evaluating the 4 QBs.  That means, in person at their Pro Days.

He should have his cell phone on mute and his out of office on.  At this specific time, this should be his ONLY focus.