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MacCagnan's valuation history of the QB position


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5 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I don't see the 3 strikes but ok. He gutted the roster entirely last year. Nobody expected the team to win. If you wanted him fired after 2016 then that's fair but if you were going to judge him on last year I don't know why you would. We knew they were going to be awful.

It's an analogy. Not a counting exercise. 

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2015 early round QBs were trash, but in the 4th round for some bizarre reason Mac saw fit to use draft capital to trade-up for Bryce Petty, who has subsequently been setup to fail since day 1

While most teams use their premium picks for premium positions like QB and pass rusher and try to find late-round starters at OG, S, DT and ILB, we do the opposite.  That is Macc's strategy, following

But he did have a legit chance.  He passed on two QBs at 6 that were eventually drafted at 10 and 12 both by teams that invested more picks to trade up to get them.  Both of them saw the field and one

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On 3/6/2018 at 7:08 PM, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

I'm under no illusion that Macc is a GM of the year candidate, but he isn't being judged fairly. He has been set up to fail from day 1, and he will never succeed for as long as Woody owns the team and Chris Johnson is running it. I can't judge a GM who stands on even ground with the head coach. I don't know which of his moves were his, and which of his moves were heavily influenced by a Johnson. In either case, Macc has to go. We need a head coach who makes personnel decisions who works with a bean counter who makes the transaction happen. No more of this ridiculous power structure.

...and yet...some have said otherwise...

Image result for mike maccagnan executive of the year

Too soon?

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"rebuilding" has zero to do with the quality of picks you make or the draft strat you use.   If you pikc later or have less picks you still have to make the right pick more often than not.  Many poor picks and using high picks on low value positions.  This team is so many holes it is ridiculous and this was really brought out in the choose 4 players from o and d thread.

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

"rebuilding" has zero to do with the quality of picks you make or the draft strat you use.   If you pikc later or have less picks you still have to make the right pick more often than not.  Many poor picks and using high picks on low value positions.  This team is so many holes it is ridiculous and this was really brought out in the choose 4 players from o and d thread.

Macagnan is one of the worst GM’s in the nfl if he misses out on Cousins and drafts Baker Manziel him and Bowles are both gone finally in 2 years

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The answer is simple:  Pac is Mike Maccagnan, in disguise.  

I know this isn't true because Chadwick wasn't called out of retirement 3 years ago to complete some check downs, get hurt and then wave a towel around on the sideline as the highest paid jet girl

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8 hours ago, Bugg said:

You are missing the point. You can get a decent safety late in the draft or in FA. QB, doesn't happen. Defense under these rules as enforced, except for edge rushers like the Iggles have, simply isn't that important. Longer the play and game go on, more likely the defense goes into disarray and the offense makes  a play.If there's no pass rush, the receivers are going to get open. This is lost on a braindread "establish the run" moron like Todd Bowles, but I digress. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SHUTDOWN DEFENSE IN THE 2018 NFL. The best you could hope for is getting a decent pass rush going and limit the damage or make a game-changing play.  And definitely not nearly as important as a QB or edge or LT. 

And these "many people" are idiots who should not be employed by NFL teams in any capacity. They are scared, pussified bags of sheet, many who have been running the Jets since the day Mangini got canned. 

Agreed.  As much as I thought he lost the team in his final year...I do occasionally miss Eric.

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1 hour ago, talisaynon said:

when you're right you're right bro.

Dumpster fire organization that can't ever get a QB it's godamned unbelievable.

Maybe we should force this organization to keep drafting 2 QBs every year from the first 4 picks until we hit on one.

Garbage, garbage, garbage.

How do we force a billionaire with no brain to do anything?  Seriously.  More billboards?  

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3 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

So regarding Lee, you want him to worth it, but you can't tell me you think he is worth $8M now.  

I don't need any articles on the salary floor.  I need to understand why you think it is a valid reason to overpay stiffs.  There is no reason to give money to guys that you want gone a year or two later.  The fact that the new 4-year period started in 2017 makes the overspend even more egregious.  He blew all that money because "he had to," but then he didn't have enough money to get who he wanted in 2016?  Seems like a poor management strategy to me.

I don't think Lee is worth 8M no.

I don't think he expected he'd need to keep Fitz let alone at the price we ultimately paid. Geno was supposed to be the QB we were going to build around, we brought in weapons to help him succeed. It appears like he tried to do what Tanny and Idzik didn't. Ultimately a bad move but I don't think anyone expected Geno to get knocked out by his teammate.

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48 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

...and yet...some have said otherwise...

Image result for mike maccagnan executive of the year

Too soon?

This guy is so in over his head it's impossible to even be angered when you realize he and the other idiot Bowles were sent by the NFL to try and save and the franchise.  Casserly has to be some kind of sadist to ship this level of ineptitude the Jets way.  You can't blame the owner.  He was given the team in order for him to stay away from his family's corporation.  No one who understands that situation could ever have confidence in him.  He needs his hand held.  Every top drafted selection is made with fear and to ward off personal criticism, since the guy KNOWS he is in over his head.  I always knew he would never draft a QB in the 1st Rd since unless your name is John Elway, if you whiff, you're also losing your job.  I really hope Cousins refuses to come to this sinking ship...Maccagnan and Bowles are going to have to sink or swim based on their own talents (of which there are none), where if they could buy Cousins they'd be buying more excuses and checks they don't deserve.

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On 3/6/2018 at 7:57 PM, ScarletKnight89 said:

Whose the guy that Macc has missed out on who he should have drafted/signed?

In 2015 it wasn't an off season where the Jets were in a position to land a franchise caliber QB. Winston and Mariota went 1 and 2. He traded a conditional pick for Fitz (good move) and drafted a project in the 4th round in Petty. 4th round QBs very rarely work out. It was a low risk low reward move. But he got a veteran QB for nothing who had a great season for us.

In 2016 he brought back Fitz who was coming off of a 10 win season and a career year and drafted a project in the second round. That was a terrible pick but it was one pick. There was nobody else for the Jets to bring back besides Fitz in FA.

Last year again, whose the guy they should have drafted? Mahomes or Watson? We'll see how their careers develop. He made a smart move by not paying for a guy like Glennon or Cutler. Signed McCown to a team friendly contract and hoped Hack would develop. It was a bad pick. They do happen.

My point is he hasn't really had a legit chance to land a franchise caliber QB. He's got one this off season.

2015 = Cousins was available. RGIII was the starter and the HC announced as much — effectively inviting all trade offers to come forth. Things didn’t change in the pecking order there until several months later. In doing so, he’d also have been in a position to lock him up for far less than the $30m he’s in line for right now. It’s likely even a dope like Macc would have done so right after surrendering a high 2nd rounder (or whatever it would’ve been) to get him.

2016 = he turned down a trade offer to move up to #1 (which incidentally would have solved all the following problems at once: drafting D.Lee, drafting Hackenberg, extending Mo at $18.5m/year, embarrassing negotiations with Fitz, signing Fitz for $12m, signing McCown for $8m, and he’d have this year’s #1 pick (plus perhaps even more, if he ends up trading up from #6) to do what he pleases with a non-QB in round 1. Oh yeah, and a tiny little thing: two consecutive 5-win seasons which also came with no credibly optimisic hope for a future QB in sight. Also passed on 2 QBs taken after Hackenberg in this draft, who are each infinitely more successful.

2017 = passed on Mahomes and Watson. For all your doubt as to their future career prospects, as of today those are at worst on par with anybody the Jets are going to end up with in 2018. 

So I count, what is that, 6 starting QBs that were available to him (not even counting Brisset): Cousins, Goff, Wentz, Prescott, Mahomes, Watson. 

Maccagnan is the absolute worst.

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7 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I don't see the 3 strikes but ok. He gutted the roster entirely last year. Nobody expected the team to win. If you wanted him fired after 2016 then that's fair but if you were going to judge him on last year I don't know why you would. We knew they were going to be awful.

Which was fine.  But then he goes out and signs Josh McCown for some strange reason.  Totally idiotic move.

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

"rebuilding" has zero to do with the quality of picks you make or the draft strat you use.   If you pikc later or have less picks you still have to make the right pick more often than not.  Many poor picks and using high picks on low value positions.  This team is so many holes it is ridiculous and this was really brought out in the choose 4 players from o and d thread.

Macc is the perfect GM for the Jets. He treats the draft like a game and just plays not to lose. Take the conservative route every time in round 1 and never take a perceived risk.

Guess what: NO QB is a value in round 1. QBs are always "over drafted." It's the nature of the importance of the position. Macc is gonna have to sack up this year and take a swing, if he can stomach passing on defensive players with much higher draft grades.

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2 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

...and yet...some have said otherwise...

Image result for mike maccagnan executive of the year

Too soon?

Mac could make executive of the year again this year.  i'm not kidding.  Sign Cousins and some other Brandon Marshall types and it's 10 wins again.

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9 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

2015 = Cousins was available. RGIII was the starter and the HC announced as much — effectively inviting all trade offers to come forth. Things didn’t change in the pecking order there until several months later. In doing so, he’d also have been in a position to lock him up for far less than the $30m he’s in line for right now. It’s likely even a dope like Macc would have done so right after surrendering a high 2nd rounder (or whatever it would’ve been) to get him.

2016 = he turned down a trade offer to move up to #1 (which incidentally would have solved all the following problems at once: drafting D.Lee, drafting Hackenberg, extending Mo at $18.5m/year, embarrassing negotiations with Fitz, signing Fitz for $12m, signing McCown for $8m, and he’d have this year’s #1 pick (plus perhaps even more, if he ends up trading up from #6) to do what he pleases with a non-QB in round 1. Oh yeah, and a tiny little thing: two consecutive 5-win seasons which also came with no credibly optimisic hope for a future QB in sight. Also passed on 2 QBs taken after Hackenberg in this draft, who are each infinitely more successful.

2017 = passed on Mahomes and Watson. For all your doubt as to their future career prospects, as of today those are at worst on par with anybody the Jets are going to end up with in 2018. 

So I count, what is that, 6 starting QBs that were available to him (not even counting Brisset): Cousins, Goff, Wentz, Prescott, Mahomes, Watson. 

Maccagnan is the absolute worst.

He is the worst.  So bad that when you look at the current roster you have to ask yourself whether someone was trying to out and out sabotage the team.  You draft ANOTHER DT (of course not addressing someone who can actually be a game changer, someone who can Sack that QB on a pretty consistent basis), and at the very same time push your basically Top 10 pick in Richardson out of a position, so the whole pick negated itself.  Can Maccagnan actually think more than 1 move at a time?

Mahomes is going to be a incredible talent.  The only time you pick a Safety at 6 he better be Palomalu or Sean Taylor, but again consensus dictated who Maccagnan should pick, just as with the Leonard Williams pick...a scared pick with a excuses from criticism already built in.

I've never had less confidence in a Jet Front Office....ever.  Even though say a Kotite couldn't make it work on the field, there was in fact talent on his roster.  Parcells almost had that roster in the Super Bowl 2 years removed from 1-15.  Give Parcells this garbage this idiot Maccagnan has compiled in 3 years and see if he could have done the same thing...he couldn't.

  

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30 minutes ago, jgb said:

Macc is the perfect GM for the Jets. He treats the draft like a game and just plays not to lose. Take the conservative route every time in round 1 and never take a perceived risk.

Guess what: NO QB is a value in round 1. QBs are always "over drafted." It's the nature of the importance of the position. Macc is gonna have to sack up this year and take a swing, if he can stomach passing on defensive players with much higher draft grades.

That's the thing, the cowardice is so blatant and in the fans faces, it's sickening.

Bowles actually complements Maccagnan.  He punts on the opponents side of the 50 down by 2 scores in the 4th Qtr on 4th and 8.  He kicks a FG in the 4th Qtr, so his resume will show that he lost by 27 and not 30 (Lou Holtz wouldn't have done that).  He angrily tells a reporter that the reporter "Doesn't know that" when the reporter incredulously asks whether Fitzpatrick will be back for a 3rd season while asking why Bowles refused to yank him and his 6 INTs in KC.

And the WKRP in Cincinnati guy who owns the team is clueless as to what to do.

If you think Maccagnan will make any right moves in his 4th draft....sorry.  Someone did an analysis of the 10 QBs drafted in Houston while he was a scout.  Wtf was he? Head scout?  What exactly gave anyone confidence that this guy could be an NFL GM in the first place?  All 10 QBs....garbage.  Guy should have put at least 2 more pair of glasses on top of his glasses when watching Hackenberg (he thought he was slick, if he hit that pick in the 2nd he looks like a genius, he whiffs?  Oh well most 2nd Rd QBs are whiffs anyway).  But now, like you say, he has to go QB in the 1st....it'll be the wrong one....guaranteed.

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3 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

That's the thing, the cowardice is so blatant and in the fans faces, it's sickening.

Bowles actually complements Maccagnan.  He punts on the opponents side of the 50 down by 2 scores in the 4th Qtr on 4th and 8.  He kicks a FG in the 4th Qtr, so his resume will show that he lost by 27 and not 30 (Lou Holtz wouldn't have done that).  He angrily tells a reporter that the reporter "Doesn't know that" when the reporter incredulously asks whether Fitzpatrick will be back for a 3rd season while asking why Bowles refused to yank him and his 6 INTs in KC.

And the WKRP in Cincinnati guy who owns the team is clueless as to what to do.

If you think Maccagnan will make any right moves in his 4th draft....sorry.  Someone did an analysis of the 10 QBs drafted in Houston while he was a scout.  Wtf was he? Head scout?  What exactly gave anyone confidence that this guy could be an NFL GM in the first place?  All 10 QBs....garbage.  Guy should have put at least 2 more pair of glasses on top of his glasses when watching Hackenberg (he thought he was slick, if he hit that pick in the 2nd he looks like a genius, he whiffs?  Oh well most 2nd Rd QBs are whiffs anyway).  But now, like you say, he has to go QB in the 1st....it'll be the wrong one....guaranteed.

I wish there was something for good posts as strong as the Butt Fumble is for bad ones.

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25 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

He is the worst.  So bad that when you look at the current roster you have to ask yourself whether someone was trying to out and out sabotage the team.  You draft ANOTHER DT (of course not addressing someone who can actually be a game changer, someone who can Sack that QB on a pretty consistent basis), and at the very same time push your basically Top 10 pick in Richardson out of a position, so the whole pick negated itself.  Can Maccagnan actually think more than 1 move at a time?

Mahomes is going to be a incredible talent.  The only time you pick a Safety at 6 he better be Palomalu or Sean Taylor, but again consensus dictated who Maccagnan should pick, just as with the Leonard Williams pick...a scared pick with a excuses from criticism already built in.

I've never had less confidence in a Jet Front Office....ever.  Even though say a Kotite couldn't make it work on the field, there was in fact talent on his roster.  Parcells almost had that roster in the Super Bowl 2 years removed from 1-15.  Give Parcells this garbage this idiot Maccagnan has compiled in 3 years and see if he could have done the same thing...he couldn't.

  

You've had one of the most impressive starts here as a new poster. I think I'm gonna like you. Welcome to JN.

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On 3/6/2018 at 7:54 PM, T0mShane said:

What’s odd is that even shortly after drafting Petty, Macc pinned his value as a “number two quarterback in this league,” as if he was someone that got drafted against Macc’s will. And both McCown and Fitzpatrick reek of Bowles’ wishes considering his history with veteran washouts. Hackenberg is the anomaly because neither of them—Bowles or Macc—seemed particularly enthused about drafting him. Could have been a quid pro quo deal with an agent or something like that. Either way, being in Year Four of a regime and having no QB of merit on the roster should get everyone fired. 

What kind of GM drafts a "number 2" at any position out the gate?  You can settle for a back-up, but a GM should aspire that every draft pick eventually becomes a starter. 

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On 3/6/2018 at 8:25 PM, ScarletKnight89 said:

But we have to let Watson and Mahomes actually produce for an entire season before criticize Macc IMO. If you wanted the Jets to draft one of those guys then obviously you have a fair gripe if you believe in them. 

And when they do Mac apologists will just spout hindsight is 20/20.

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5 minutes ago, legler82 said:

What kind of GM drafts a "number 2" at any position out the gate?  You can settle for a back-up, but a GM should aspire that every draft pick eventually becomes a starter. 

A frightened one.  A "GM" who is really only a GM in name only.  The guy is all about having excuses. As the saying goes in cards,"Scared money doesn't win money"...you're about to see that for his 4th consecutive draft.

Only the Jets would allow this to go on 4 years in a row.

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11 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Could they just be jokers that get stacked into the deck to fool stupid teams? I'm leaning towards yes.

Exactly, I don't think it's by chance Mahomes and Watson were being sold reaches in the top 10 while Adams was being propped up as the best player in the draft.  We took the bait. 

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11 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

The good teams generate fake news in hopes that mediocre players get over-drafted early, thus pushing good players down further to them?

NO THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

riddickallin24s-1-web.jpg

This guy particularly was pushing was hyping Adams before and during the draft coverage insufferably HARD.  He, by the way, has ties to Andy Reid.  I'm not saying but just saying.

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On 3/6/2018 at 7:05 PM, T0mShane said:

The second you sign on the line to become a general manager, your entire life depends on you getting a long-term answer at quarterback, and surrounding that quarterback with the coaches and players that quarterback needs to be successful. Everything else is peripheral. If Macc thought that Ryan Fitzpatrick was his long-term answer, then he deserves to be where he is now: presiding over the most hopeless roster situation in the NFL. 

how can you make a statement like this ? We have 90 + million to spend to fortify the Oline possibly get a WR and possibly a QB who has played very will to this point. W also have a good amount of picks to continue to build the team. If teams like the Rams can turn it around quickly so can the Jets. I little optimism can't hurt Tom.

I mean what would you say if the Jets drafted the QB you wanted and by the difficulty of drafting the position the QB simply didn't work out ? Would you continue to bash Macc ?

Who exactly do you want at QB ? Who exactly do you want us to draft ? How should we spend our money in FA ? Lets hear that first before you try to destroy a GM strapped with an Idiot coach He didn't pick and keeps forcing him in a corner since every draft pick seems to have his name on it.

IMO this team has 2 glaring Issues which happen to be the most important in the NFL a Bad Coach and No QB . Macc has a chance to make good on the QB but he has no say on the HC

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22 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I didn't say Rex was the GM, I was talking about our poor drafting while he was here, both Idzik and Tanny contributed to that. I don't believe anyone could have succeeded in 2015 being handed that roster. I also think there was a culture change that needed to happen coming from the way Rex handled his guys, this finally feels like a roster that is all moving with a common goal. This year is huge for this team

The 2015 roster was really good, if Rex stayed on I have no doubt we are a playoff team that year.  You may be confusing 2015 w/ 2014?  2014 was the year idzik sabotaged Rex and in the process sabotaged himself.

this Century we have always turned things around w/ some trades and FA. I do agree this rebuild seems different, we tore it all down are started over last offseason. if we have a good offseason this year it ould be one we look back to in the coming years as the start of something big.

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8 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

The 2015 roster was really good, if Rex stayed on I have no doubt we are a playoff team that year.  You may be confusing 2015 w/ 2014?  2014 was the year idzik sabotaged Rex and in the process sabotaged himself.

this Century we have always turned things around w/ some trades and FA. I do agree this rebuild seems different, we tore it all down are started over last offseason. if we have a good offseason this year it ould be one we look back to in the coming years as the start of something big.

I guess I should say "being handed that 2014 roster" because Macc actually assembled a much better team in 2015, it was just the last stand with all the vets. I don't think there was much of an opportunity to sign players that were meant to be here for a longer duration other than Carpenter and Skrine.

Yea this is probably the most important offseason this franchise has had since 2000.

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6 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I guess I should say "being handed that 2014 roster" because Macc actually assembled a much better team in 2015, it was just the last stand with all the vets. I don't think there was much of an opportunity to sign players that were meant to be here for a longer duration other than Carpenter and Skrine.

Yea this is probably the most important offseason this franchise has had since 2000.

he was handed $100 mil in cap room that he had to spend. 

This is the most important since that offseason of the 12 man draft class under Idzik. Prior to that I would say the offseason after 2007 which helped us reach 2 title games.

The 2000 offseason we screwed up badly when you look back at it. 4 1st rounders and half of them were gone by 2005 and only 1 was left by the end of the decade.

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

how can you make a statement like this ? We have 90 + million to spend to fortify the Oline possibly get a WR and possibly a QB who has played very will to this point. W also have a good amount of picks to continue to build the team. If teams like the Rams can turn it around quickly so can the Jets. I little optimism can't hurt Tom.

I mean what would you say if the Jets drafted the QB you wanted and by the difficulty of drafting the position the QB simply didn't work out ? Would you continue to bash Macc ?

Who exactly do you want at QB ? Who exactly do you want us to draft ? How should we spend our money in FA ? Lets hear that first before you try to destroy a GM strapped with an Idiot coach He didn't pick and keeps forcing him in a corner since every draft pick seems to have his name on it.

IMO this team has 2 glaring Issues which happen to be the most important in the NFL a Bad Coach and No QB . Macc has a chance to make good on the QB but he has no say on the HC

Just 2 glaring issues, and only 1 issue on the roster?

Here are the positions where we presently have either nothing or could do with a real upgrade, as we’re fielding a below average player:

  1. QB1
  2. QB2
  3. RB1
  4. WR1
  5. TE (ASJ is a FA and is far from all that anyway)
  6. LT (and we’re locked into Beachum for $4m)
  7. LG
  8. C
  9. RG (and we’re locked into Winters for $7m)
  10. RT
  11. DE/DT (and before you spend all this glorious space, Leo’s in the last year of his rookie contract and will cost some $16-18m/year to keep beyond 2018 including just exercising the team’s 5th year option)
  12. NT to complement McLendon, never mind take over for when he gets hurt or after this 32-33 year-old’s contract is up next year
  13. EDGE DE/OLB
  14. ILB
  15. CB1
  16. CB2 (now that I think we’ve put to bed so many fans’ confident insistence that Burris is a starting CB, and the kudos they praised upon Maccagnan for drafting him in round 4)
  17. NB

Spare me this $90m+ because there are plenty of other teams who are collectively seeking these same players the Jets wish to sign. This includes 9 other teams with $50m or more in cap room, and another dozen with $20-35m (not counting the extra space they can easily clear with some simple restrucuturing).

We’ve got about $100m, not $1000m, and 20+ other teams aren’t going to all sit out free agency because the Jets have more money. We also have an unattractive situation, where we’re about to lose out on a FA QB despite being the highest bidder. Players can see the Jets’ history of late says after the 2 guaranteed years are up you’ll be cut, with your previously good reputation in ruins, hoping for a contract at half the $ the Jets paid to ruin your career.

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6 hours ago, legler82 said:

Exactly, I don't think it's by chance Mahomes and Watson were being sold reaches in the top 10 while Adams was being propped up as the best player in the draft.  We took the bait. 

Again, under GM Coffee Boy with QBs we need to see their body of work to somehow preclude picking them, but any middle of the field defender, jump in and call him the BAP and be done with it.  Which is how 4 years in there is no NFL QB on this roster. 

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11 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

I don't think Lee is worth 8M no.

I don't think he expected he'd need to keep Fitz let alone at the price we ultimately paid. Geno was supposed to be the QB we were going to build around, we brought in weapons to help him succeed. It appears like he tried to do what Tanny and Idzik didn't. Ultimately a bad move but I don't think anyone expected Geno to get knocked out by his teammate.

This is what I don't understand.  The guy is absolved for his sins because Geno Smith got punched in the face?  Geno was a questionable QB1 at best.  This was not Aaron Rodgers breaking his collarbone.  Geno Smith got his jaw broken in early August 2015.  How does that excuse letting Fitzpatrick hold the team hostage and get that ridiculous contract almost a full year later?  He didn't think it would happen? 

In July of 2016, Speilman thought he was set at QB with Bridgewater.  When Bridgewater went down he traded for Bradford.  Then, the next offseason he signed Keenum as insurance.  That whole time he had Austin Hill who is as viable as Fitzpatrick and McCown.  You know what that is called?  Trying.  Now they are poised to get Cousins while our only excuse is positioning ourselves for a QB that may never come.

1 hour ago, bla bla bla said:

I guess I should say "being handed that 2014 roster" because Macc actually assembled a much better team in 2015, it was just the last stand with all the vets. I don't think there was much of an opportunity to sign players that were meant to be here for a longer duration other than Carpenter and Skrine.

Yea this is probably the most important offseason this franchise has had since 2000.

There was no opportunity to sign players meant to be there for a longer duration?  Do you think he could have resolved the Mo mess?  What was the excuse?  He would have certainly signed for less, but we waited and then were held over a barrel having to lower Mo's cap number from the franchise to sign Fitzpatrick.  We paid all those guys and then paid Mo with new money.  Were those old ****s the only FAs available? If he didn't mean them to be here, why all the dead money?

I'm not sure why it was a "last stand with all the vets."  I assume you mean Brick and Mangold?  What other vets?  Calvin Pace?  The rest of the old players were brought in by Macc- Harris got a new deal.  Cromartie got a new deal.  Revis got a new deal.  Traded for Marshall and Fitzpatrick.  If you think he wanted to get younger, why was Ivory replaced with Matt Forte?  Why the return of the previous regimes squids - Demario Davis and Jeremy Kerley?  Why was his solution at LT Ryan Clady - who almost retired before he came to the Jets?  Replaced by Beachum?  These are not particularly long-term solutions.

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Just 2 glaring issues, and only 1 issue on the roster?

Here are the positions where we presently have either nothing or could do with a real upgrade, as we’re fielding a below average player:

  1. QB1
  2. QB2
  3. RB1
  4. WR1
  5. TE (ASJ is a FA and is far from all that anyway)
  6. LT (and we’re locked into Beachum for $4m)
  7. LG
  8. C
  9. RG (and we’re locked into Winters for $7m)
  10. RT
  11. DE/DT (and before you spend all this glorious space, Leo’s in the last year of his rookie contract and will cost some $16-18m/year to keep beyond 2018 including just exercising the team’s 5th year option)
  12. NT to complement McLendon, never mind take over for when he gets hurt or after this 32-33 year-old’s contract is up next year
  13. EDGE DE/OLB
  14. ILB
  15. CB1
  16. CB2 (now that I think we’ve put to bed so many fans’ confident insistence that Burris is a starting CB, and the kudos they praised upon Maccagnan for drafting him in round 4)
  17. NB

Spare me this $90m+ because there are plenty of other teams who are collectively seeking these same players the Jets wish to sign. This includes 9 other teams with $50m or more in cap room, and another dozen with $20-35m (not counting the extra space they can easily clear with some simple restrucuturing).

We’ve got about $100m, not $1000m, and 20+ other teams aren’t going to all sit out free agency because the Jets have more money. We also have an unattractive situation, where we’re about to lose out on a FA QB despite being the highest bidder. Players can see the Jets’ history of late says after the 2 guaranteed years are up you’ll be cut, with your previously good reputation in ruins, hoping for a contract at half the $ the Jets paid to ruin your career.

give me a run down of what you think would be good moves this off season . 

Regardless of the odds who do you want at QB ? 

Who do you want to sure up the Oline ?

Who do you want at WR and at RB ?

Criticize is all most do around here I would love to see what all the critical thinkers have to say and how the players they think would make a difference pan out. problem is we never see that here. All we see is the Negative with no real ideas or possibilities put forth . Its a great way to keep complaining without ever having to answer for anything. 

My choice at QB is Josh Rosen who's your's ?

I would like to see the OL upgraded with Jensen and a few second round picks

I would also like to see the Jets target a WR in free agency and a RB in round 2 as well.

Is that far fetched ? If we get Cousins I would like to see all the same things happen but maybe luck into Chubbs or Barkley at 6

Once again a little luck needed but not that far fetched.

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12 hours ago, gEYno said:

It's weird.  I don't watch college football regularly, so I only know about these guys from what I read up on.  But, I watched his highlights after the Jets picked him, and couldn't understand why he was so highly sought after.  Seems like a nice player, but literally nothing jumped out on his tape.  And that's kind of exactly what he is as a pro.  Seems like a guy we could have gotten in the 3rd round.

Right? I did the same and felt silly commenting on a stupid highlight video, but his freaking highlight video is just clips of him running up and aggressively wrapping up running backs who were catching outlet passes in the flat. Usually those videos feature huge hits and interception/kick returns, but no.

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4 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Who exactly do you want at QB ? Who exactly do you want us to draft ? How should we spend our money in FA ? Lets hear that first before you try to destroy a GM strapped with an Idiot coach He didn't pick and keeps forcing him in a corner since every draft pick seems to have his name on it.

Wherein Smash speaks about Maccagnan like he’s JonBenet Ramsey.

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