The dilemma with OT Orlando Brown

[Villain The Foe]

 

Outside of the "historically bad" combine outing that is evident, I wonder where this guy is going to be drafted. A couple things that I wanted to present to the community that may not be known. 

When it comes to the combine, measurements are paramount. You can have a guy like Warren Sapp knock out the bench press given his incredibly short arms. Some folks would say "Wow, he demolished the bench", others would say "His arms are too short to get into the chest of the defender and gain leverage". At the end of the day Sapp had a HOF career and was a beast. 

We also know that guys with longer arms tend not to bench as much given the space they have to cover in order to lock their arms. This is where Orlando Brown comes in. This is a guy who's 6'7, One of the tallest guys in Combine history, but his wingspan is over 7 feet long. Let me say that again. Orlando Brown is 6'7 but his wingspan is over 7 feet (85.25 inches). He knocked out 14 reps with a 7 foot wingspan. 

The "40". This is a guy who ran a terrible time of 5.85 with a 2.00 split...but he weighs 350LB's. This is alot of man to move. Furthermore, he's a lineman, not a receiver. He's not running 40 yards ANYWHERE on a football field. 

Lastly, Orlando Brown has given up just 2 sacks...in 2 years, and no sacks this year. 

 

Im not making a case for him because I think that the OT group this year isnt great overall, but I think his combine performance is becoming a bit overblown by the media, especially the 40 and benchpress. This guy's wingspan is longer then 99.9% of our overall height. His wingspan is longer than his own height by almost 5 inches. I just wanted to see what folks thought about the combine while also taking in some of the things mentioned above. 

 

 

[BCJet]

If he falls to the third round, hes an amazing value.

If you want to use a 2nd round pick on him, keep him behind beachem this year while he gets into NFL shape, I cant see the problem with the risk/reward.

Hes not a first rounder

[JoJoTownsell1]

I was listening to Bill Polian the other day and he said that there are certain measurables that can't be ignored when evaluating a player. However, a bench press and 40 yard dash aren't one's that concern him for an OL. 

I think what may concern some people is his attitude. Sure, the bench press doesn't really matter, but the fact that he didn't train properly for it is concerning. You are basically showing up to a job interview unprepared. Personally, that would eliminate him from a top 10 pick, but if he falls to the Jets in the 2nd round, I would snag him immediately. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, BCJet said:

If he falls to the third round, hes an amazing value.

If you want to use a 2nd round pick on him, keep him behind beachem this year while he gets into NFL shape, I cant see the problem with the risk/reward.

Hes not a first rounder

Agreed. This combine performance is probably going to impact him, but if the Jets pulled the trigger on him in the 2nd I wouldnt be upset and if in the 3rd I think that would be amazing value. 

I never seen him as a 1st round pick (none of the OT's this year) but 2nd or lower seems correct to me. I just think that this combine situation is becoming bigger than what it should be. There have been quite a few guys who ended up being probowlers/HOF'ers who had terrible combine showings and we've also had guys who had very good college careers, absolutely destroyed at the combine and were immediate busts at the pro level. 

The media needs to relax alittle. 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I was listening to Bill Polian

Your first mistake.

[KRL]

He'd be perfect for the Jets because we need a future LT.  Put him into an NFL

weight program for a year and work on his technique and we could have our 

next Brick.  I would love him in the 3rd round

[Villain The Foe]

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I was listening to Bill Polian the other day and he said that there are certain measurables that can't be ignored when evaluating a player. However, a bench press and 40 yard dash aren't one's that concern him for an OL. 

I think what may concern some people is his attitude. Sure, the bench press doesn't really matter, but the fact that he didn't train properly for it is concerning. You are basically showing up to a job interview unprepared. Personally, that would eliminate him from a top 10 pick, but if he falls to the Jets in the 2nd round, I would snag him immediately. 

 

It's hard for me to speak on his attitude. Maybe he's not a great performer when it comes to gauntlets like the combine. Also, I never heard of attitude issues when he was at OU (I've followed OU and Mayfield the past 2 seasons). 

I think that having such an unexpectedly bad showing, it leaves room for folks to interpret why and then make their interpretation come off as factual. 

Again, im not trying to cover up, the combine was terrible, but a guy running a 5.85 at 350 and pushing out 14 reps with over a 7 foot wingspan I think is pretty impressive. I could be wrong here. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Your first mistake.

Joe right on cue! lol. 

[FidelioJet]

After the combine 3rd round is the highest he should go.

Weak, slow, and bends at the waist - NFL linemen will eat hiim up.  

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

After the combine 3rd round is the highest he should go.

Weak, slow, and bends at the waist - NFL linemen will eat hiim up.  

Slow and bends at the waist is accurate, but this man isnt weak. 

[nycdan]

22 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The "40". This is a guy who ran a terrible time of 5.85 with a 2.00 split...but he weighs 350LB's. This is alot of man to move. Furthermore, he's a lineman, not a receiver. He's not running 40 yards ANYWHERE on a football field. 

 

You never know....Sometimes the big fatties do need to run.  My all-time favorites:

 

 

And let me go on record that if there was a Larry Allen clone, I would totally draft an OG at #6.  I don't know if Nelson is all that, but Larry Allen was...wow.

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Slow and bends at the waist is accurate, but this man isnt weak. 

his 14 reps on the bench say otherwise.  I'm not saying bench press is everything but it certainly speaks to his overall strength.

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, nycdan said:

You never know....Sometimes the big fatties do need to run.  My all-time favorites:

 

 

Sometimes. But in both clips, Orlando would have been the other fatties that couldnt keep up. Lol

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

his 14 reps on the bench say otherwise.

Actually it speaks more to that 7 foot wingspan...which was my point.

But okay

[Lupz27]

22 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

Outside of the "historically bad" combine outing that is evident, I wonder where this guy is going to be drafted. A couple things that I wanted to present to the community that may not be known. 

When it comes to the combine, measurements are paramount. You can have a guy like Warren Sapp knock out the bench press given his incredibly short arms. Some folks would say "Wow, he demolished the bench", others would say "His arms are too short to get into the chest of the defender and gain leverage". At the end of the day Sapp had a HOF career and was a beast. 

We also know that guys with longer arms tend not to bench as much given the space they have to cover in order to lock their arms. This is where Orlando Brown comes in. This is a guy who's 6'7, One of the tallest guys in Combine history, but his wingspan is over 7 feet long. Let me say that again. Orlando Brown is 6'7 but his wingspan is over 7 feet (85.25 inches). He knocked out 14 reps with a 7 foot wingspan. 

The "40". This is a guy who ran a terrible time of 5.85 with a 2.00 split...but he weighs 350LB's. This is alot of man to move. Furthermore, he's a lineman, not a receiver. He's not running 40 yards ANYWHERE on a football field. 

Lastly, Orlando Brown has given up just 2 sacks...in 2 years, and no sacks this year. 

 

Im not making a case for him because I think that the OT group this year isnt great overall, but I think his combine performance is becoming a bit overblown by the media, especially the 40 and benchpress. This guy's wingspan is longer then 99.9% of our overall height. His wingspan is longer than his own height by almost 5 inches. I just wanted to see what folks thought about the combine while also taking in some of the things mentioned above. 

 

 

Some guys can just play with the pads on, Orlando Brown is one of those guys IMO.  No fear of getting dirty, and nasty, would welcome him in the 2nd with open arms.

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Some guys can just play with the pads on, Orlando Brown is one of those guys IMO.  No fear of getting dirty, and nasty, would welcome him in the 2nd with open arms.

Could be an opportunity for the Jets

[BCJet]

5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Slow and bends at the waist is accurate, but this man isnt weak. 

But with a wing span as big as Brown's is, he is extremely hard to get around, which is what increases his value, regardless of his play strength.

Here's the other thing with respect to attitude.  If we are being honest, money is an enormous motivating factor to players and if he falls from the first to the third, its very possible that will serve as motivation over the first 4 years to get that big second contract and make up for what he lost. 

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, BCJet said:

But with a wing span as big as Brown's is, he is extremely hard to get around, which is what increases his value, regardless of his play strength.

Here's the other thing with respect to attitude.  If we are being honest, money is an enormous motivating factor to players and if he falls from the first to the third, its very possible that will serve as motivation over the first 4 years to get that big second contract and make up for what he lost. 

Good points

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, BCJet said:

But with a wing span as big as Brown's is, he is extremely hard to get around, which is what increases his value, regardless of his play strength.

Here's the other thing with respect to attitude.  If we are being honest, money is an enormous motivating factor to players and if he falls from the first to the third, its very possible that will serve as motivation over the first 4 years to get that big second contract and make up for what he lost. 

Yeah, but then you resign him and you have another Wilkerson.  Either a guy has fire or he doesn't.  I don't trust contract-year warriors.

And I don't see him getting out of the 2nd round.  If he's there at #49, and we haven't taken an OT, then yeah, that's a good spot.

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, nycdan said:

Yeah, but then you resign him and you have another Wilkerson.  Either a guy has fire or he doesn't.  I don't trust contract-year warriors.

And I don't see him getting out of the 2nd round.  If he's there at #49, and we haven't taken an OT, then yeah, that's a good spot.

Good point as well

[JoJoTownsell1]

17 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Your first mistake.

6 time executive of the year. 1 time Super Bowl champ. Hall Of Fame inductee. 

He kind of knows what he is talking about. 

[Lith]

The bigger red flag to me coming from his workout was the apparent lack of effort during drills.  From what I recall, a couple of the coaches on the field were yelling at him for lack of effort.  If he is not going to go all out or prepare properly for a showcase for NFL coaches and GMs,  then what is going to happen over the course of a 16 game season.

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

The bigger red flag to me coming from his workout was the apparent lack of effort during drills.  From what I recall, a couple of the coaches on the field were yelling at him for lack of effort.  If he is not going to go all out or prepare properly for a showcase for NFL coaches and GMs,  then what is going to happen over the course of a 16 game season.

Is there any footage of him being yelled at anywhere? I heard that this occurred but never seen it. 

[Sarge4Tide]

If he's lazy and has a bad attitude, can we draft him at #6 AND franchise him at the same time?

[Lith]

 

 

26 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Is there any footage of him being yelled at anywhere? I heard that this occurred but never seen it. 

I have seen it reported by a couple of guys, but I have not seen any footage (have not looked for it).

 

[derp]

Jets are going to be running more zone stuff this year, right? Mobility is paramount, I don't think Brown's going to be a fit. 

Interesting debate for other teams though. Another point I'd bring up not in Brown's favor (though you could look at it either way) is the guy in the OP's avatar. Mayfield had tremendous stats against pressure - lack of sacks that Brown gave up could be partially indicative of a quarterback who does a good job getting rid of the football and/or moving around. I remember when the Texas A&M tackles got drafted really high (both in the top 10 in back to back years I think) for keeping Manziel clean...results have been pretty mixed. Matthews has improved a little after being a disaster early...Joeckel didn't have his 5th year option picked up and got moved to guard.

Interviews, etc are going to be key. The lack of preparation for a really important job interview isn't a great look. But he's obviously a talented guy, pretty mobile in pads, and a big time factor in the run game. If I was a team that ran more of a power scheme I'd be intrigued by the idea of kicking him inside to guard.

[Thai Jet]

Very disappointed in his workout. Face it, he had months to prepare for this, it wasn't like a random drug test. Months to prepare and you give them these results ?!  Where's the effort ? He proved, to me, he is NOT a 1st round pick.

[Jetscreen]

I would think those measurable should make his draft stock slip substantially. Makes me think some team is going to get a bargain?

[JiFtheOracle]

Didnt Andre Smith have a similar disappointing combine?   The shirtless 40 was legendary but wasnt he equally as bad in all drills? 

He still ended up going 1st round and had a few decent years, no? 

[Dcat]

45 minutes ago, Lith said:

The bigger red flag to me coming from his workout was the apparent lack of effort during drills.  From what I recall, a couple of the coaches on the field were yelling at him for lack of effort.  If he is not going to go all out or prepare properly for a showcase for NFL coaches and GMs,  then what is going to happen over the course of a 16 game season.

There were similar but less transparent issues with Mo coming out of Temple.  Largely ignored. I am hoping some other team takes Brown before Mac has the chance. This red flag is practically on fire for me.  Call it the 'Mo Wilkerson Effect', but I don't want a repeat of what we just went through with Mo.  THe signs are everywhere.  If Mac drafts him then he's taking a huge risk and doesn't seem to learn anything from his past mistakes.

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

6 time executive of the year. 1 time Super Bowl champ. Hall Of Fame inductee. 

He kind of knows what he is talking about. 

Macc was an executive of the year. 

Senile or as as its called today dementia. 

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, Lith said:

 

 

I have seen it reported by a couple of guys, but I have not seen any footage (have not looked for it).

 

Thanks

[UntouchableCrew]

It's not as much that the measurables indicate he's a terrible athlete as they indicate he's fat, lazy, and dumb. He clearly just didn't prepare for the biggest job interview of his life. That tells you what you need to know about him. He's not going to be worth wherever he eventually goes.

[derp]

36 minutes ago, JiF said:

Didnt Andre Smith have a similar disappointing combine?   The shirtless 40 was legendary but wasnt he equally as bad in all drills? 

He still ended up going 1st round and had a few decent years, no? 

Smith ran like a 5.3, albeit at his pro day. Vert was like ten inches higher. Similar bench. Not nearly as bad.

[varjet]

You can't coach or instill desire to play this hard game.

Hopefully Mac learned his lesson from Jarvis Harrison.