Oklahoma Offense - Big 12 Defenses

[BCJet]

There have been a lot of discussions about Mayfield's offense at Oklahoma and Ive also read about his "frantic feet" in the pocket.  So I watched a few cutups on www.Draftbreakdown.com and if anyone wants to see why that argument doesnt hold up, watch the below for a few mins.

http://archive.draftbreakdown.com/video/landry-jones-vs-texas-am-2012-bowl/ 

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/11/05/baker-mayfield-vs-ohio-state-2017/ 

Mayfield's feet move a ton, but watch his head, which you can see is constantly moving, scanning the entire field.  Its something Peyton Manning (albeit it in a more refined way) always did- constantly hopping so that he could quickly reset and get the ball out accurately to a second or third read.  

Then watch Landry Jones, someone who Ive seen compared to Baker.  His head literally never moves.  In the first 3 mins of the video link above, he moves his head on one single play, when he had a perfectly clean pocket (about 2:40ish in the red zone).  Other then that he looks at one guy and throws.

Thats why in my opinion Mayfield and Darnold have a good chance to be very good.  We read about spread offenses, arm strength, etc but the most important thing in the NFL is field vision followed by accuracy. You have to be able to keep you eyes downfield and accurately hit your 2-4th option and those guys do it all the time.  To me it seems pretty clear that it wasn't just the Big 12 or the Oklahoma offense that made Mayfield good.

[Jetscreen]

I agree. Mayfield for me passes the eye test. But also in every way a pro QB is tasked with doing things, Mayfield seems more advanced. He's the most pro ready QB IMO. That's not to say he's a day one starter? He isn't. But he has a shorter learning curve to get on the field than all the other QB's besides Rosen. Darnold, I don't like, but that doesn't matter. He'll be gone long before the Jets pick any way.

[BCJet]

1 minute ago, Jetscreen said:

I agree. Mayfield for me passes the eye test. But also in every way a pro QB is tasked with doing things, Mayfield seems more advanced. He's the most pro ready QB IMO. That's not to say he's a day one starter? He isn't. But he has a shorter learning curve to get on the field than all the other QB's besides Rosen. Darnold, I don't like, but that doesn't matter. He'll be gone long before the Jets pick any way.

Do you think there is a current QB available, outside of Kirk Cousins, that Mayfield wouldn't absolutely A$$-beat in a QB competition?

He is the most pro-ready and he is an opening day starter as long as the coaching staff doesnt force a square peg into a round hole. If we pick him, we should look at what he did at Oklahoma, what the Pats do out of the spread and what Houston did with Watson and go from there.

[Grandy]

Mayfield has displayed all the traits of a Franchise QB, I don't see any major red flags with him.

[peebag]

11 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Mayfield has displayed all the traits of a Franchise QB, I don't see any major red flags with him.

Could be your color blind.

[Sarge4Tide]

 

[BCJet]

2 minutes ago, peebag said:

Could be your color blind.

What does that mean?  What red flags do you see with the guy

[Lupz27]

46 minutes ago, BCJet said:

What does that mean?  What red flags do you see with the guy

Name a red flag I see it.

[Beerfish]

I won't be real mad if the jets draft mayfield as long as they do not draft him with darnold or rosen on the board.  Then i would be mad.  Mayfield looked good at the combine and that does mean something to me.  Here is my issue with him compared to some other QBs.

When I watched Darnold and Rosen this past year it looked like NFL games, nfl game plans nfl execution, nfl play  calling nfl defenses so the good and the bad (Darnolds fumbles) shone through.

When I watched Oklahoma, I did not see NFL ball.  I saw a super smart coach and offense with Lincoln Riley (I'd take him over bowels any day of the week.)  I saw a QB that executed the offense really well but I just did not think of it as NFL like play.  It is also tough to get past just how horrible big 12 defense are.  They just stink.  I also look at the things that mayfield may encounter in the pros are things he has not seen as in college to near the extent.

He may be great in the pros but he has way more questions for me good and bad than rosen or darnold

 

[BCJet]

11 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I won't be real mad if the jets draft mayfield as long as they do not draft him with darnold or rosen on the board.  Then i would be mad.  Mayfield looked good at the combine and that does mean something it me.  Here is my issue with him compared to some other QBs.

When I watched Darnold and Rosen this past year it looked like NFL games, nfl game plans nfl execution, nfl play  calling nfl defenses so the good and the bad (Darnolds fumbles) shone through.

When I watched Oklahoma, I did not see NFL ball.  I saw a super smart coach and offense with Lincoln Riley (I'd take him over bowels any day of the week.)  I saw a QB that excepted the offense really well but I just did not think of it as NFL like play.  It is also tough to get past just how horrible big 12 defense are.  They just stink.  I also look at the things that mayfield may encounter in the pros are things he has not seen as in college to near the extent.

He may be great in the pros but he has way more questions for me good and bad than rosen or darnold

 

I think your assessment is solid, heres my question though.  Does Rosen's unreal talent trump his lack of leadership?

I dont care that he had a hot tub or the Trump Hat thing, I just am not sure he is a guy who is going to kill himself to win like Baker and Darnold.  Thats why those guys always step up when it counts.

Rosen had one good comeback this year, which had multiple hail mary type throws.  I just dont see him as a winner, but the question is does his physical ability trump that because he is unreal for a college Junior

[bla bla bla]

I would love to have any of the 4 rookie QBs or Cousins but I would love to root for Baker. There is just something about him that makes me feel like his teammates would run through a brick wall. If he can raise the level of play of other players while also being extremely accurate, I think he is absolutely worth moving up for.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, BCJet said:

I think your assessment is solid, heres my question though.  Does Rosen's unreal talent trump his lack of leadership?

I dont care that he had a hot tub or the Trump Hat thing, I just am not sure he is a guy who is going to kill himself to win like Baker and Darnold.  Thats why those guys always step up when it counts.

Rosen had one good comeback this year, which had multiple hail mary type throws.  I just dont see him as a winner, but the question is does his physical ability trump that because he is unreal for a college Junior

You mean your perceived lack of leadership? We can give you black and white reasons Mayfield faced mediocre defenses.  You counter with year old rumors that he may have lacked leadership.  Because players didn't like his Rich man background?  Because he doesn't need the job.  

[Philc1]

8 hours ago, BCJet said:

What does that mean?  What red flags do you see with the guy

Undersized, partyboy, came from a one read offense, never played under center at all in college and looked bad doing it in the senior bowl, played with the country’s best OL while facing crappy defenses, most Big 10 Qbs have been horrible last 15 years for the aforementioned reasons

 

Just for starters

 

[NYDreamer]

7 hours ago, BCJet said:

I think your assessment is solid, heres my question though.  Does Rosen's unreal talent trump his lack of leadership?

I dont care that he had a hot tub or the Trump Hat thing, I just am not sure he is a guy who is going to kill himself to win like Baker and Darnold.  Thats why those guys always step up when it counts.

Rosen had one good comeback this year, which had multiple hail mary type throws.  I just dont see him as a winner, but the question is does his physical ability trump that because he is unreal for a college Junior

I think Rosen's Demeanor is similar to Eli Mannings.  While Eli/Rosen may not run down the field after a touchdown, they are business like and are already looking how to score another TD after that play is over.  In other words they don't wear their emotions on their sleeve.  It depends on the flavor you want.

[Jetscreen]

9 hours ago, BCJet said:

Do you think there is a current QB available, outside of Kirk Cousins, that Mayfield wouldn't absolutely A$$-beat in a QB competition?

He is the most pro-ready and he is an opening day starter as long as the coaching staff doesnt force a square peg into a round hole. If we pick him, we should look at what he did at Oklahoma, what the Pats do out of the spread and what Houston did with Watson and go from there.

Well, there certainly not bad ideas. The one thing I do want though is total transparency. If the Jets draft Mayfield and resign McCown? I want a straight up QB competition. No special favors for Mayfield the fancy f*ck out of college with a top 10 pick. I'm talking an EXACT equal (or as close as reasonably possible)amount of snaps, preseason game time, etc. Lets see if the upstart can beat out the old man. McCown is not much of a QB in NFL terms, but he should be stiff competition for Mayfield fresh out of college?

[Jetscreen]

7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I won't be real mad if the jets draft mayfield as long as they do not draft him with darnold or rosen on the board.  Then i would be mad.  Mayfield looked good at the combine and that does mean something to me.  Here is my issue with him compared to some other QBs.

When I watched Darnold and Rosen this past year it looked like NFL games, nfl game plans nfl execution, nfl play  calling nfl defenses so the good and the bad (Darnolds fumbles) shone through.

When I watched Oklahoma, I did not see NFL ball.  I saw a super smart coach and offense with Lincoln Riley (I'd take him over bowels any day of the week.)  I saw a QB that executed the offense really well but I just did not think of it as NFL like play.  It is also tough to get past just how horrible big 12 defense are.  They just stink.  I also look at the things that mayfield may encounter in the pros are things he has not seen as in college to near the extent.

He may be great in the pros but he has way more questions for me good and bad than rosen or darnold

 

Darnold I could care less about and neither should you. He will NOT be on the board when the Jets select at #6. Not a chance. In the case of Rosen, I am beginning to think he could be on the board at 6 and quite frankly it's a very good debate to have who's better? Rosen has the size I want, but Mayfield is a more developed QB at this juncture IMO. He can already look off safeties, he can scan the field and not let his eyes give away his intentions. I saw Mayfield be very successful in a pro style offense as far as I am concerned.

I would not be upset with either Rosen or Mayfield at 6. But these questions you have about Mayfield are just as much applicable to Rosen, Darnold, and all of the other QB's coming out.

[Jetscreen]

7 hours ago, BCJet said:

I dont care that he had a hot tub or the Trump Hat thing, I just am not sure he is a guy who is going to kill himself to win like Baker and Darnold.  Thats why those guys always step up when it counts.

I think Rosen would bring intensity at all times. Regardless of his politics persuasions, he would know his boss is Woody Johnson. I think he would be able to separate his political ideology when trying to maximize his paycheck.

[Jetscreen]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You mean your perceived lack of leadership? We can give you black and white reasons Mayfield faced mediocre defenses.  You counter with year old rumors that he may have lacked leadership.  Because players didn't like his Rich man background?  Because he doesn't need the job.  

And he has just as much of a chance of being right as you. We'll never know what either kid can do until they are drafted and start a game.

[Jetscreen]

7 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

If he can raise the level of play of other players while also being extremely accurate, I think he is absolutely worth moving up for.

You see that for me IS the true barometer for a franchise QB? You've got all of these draftniks on TV talking about what incredible upside Josh Allen has. They show how he threw a ball 70 yards in the air and hit a receiver in stride? That for me is merely fluff. It's much to do with nothing. There's a million guys that can make all of the throws and honestly, how often is a QB going to throw a ball 70 yards in the air? meanwhile, they keep saying he's raw and will need to be developed? I do not want another Christian Hackenberg on the roster.

Give me the guy that is most pro ready. That's the guy that I want because he already has some of the basics down pat.

[BCJet]

8 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You mean your perceived lack of leadership? We can give you black and white reasons Mayfield faced mediocre defenses.  You counter with year old rumors that he may have lacked leadership.  Because players didn't like his Rich man background?  Because he doesn't need the job.  

Did  you read my post. I specifically mentioned that I didnt care about the things in the media that were being referenced as far as his leadership.  

The reason why I question his ability to lead and make those around him better is because his career record is 17-12 including being 6-5 as a junior.  On top of that, what elite defenses did Rosen face exactly?  

[BCJet]

2 hours ago, NYDreamer said:

I think Rosen's Demeanor is similar to Eli Mannings.  While Eli/Rosen may not run down the field after a touchdown, they are business like and are already looking how to score another TD after that play is over.  In other words they don't wear their emotions on their sleeve.  It depends on the flavor you want.

I can see this comparison and I do think Rosen has the mental acumen to really be able to do a lot in a pro offense.  

[RESNewYork]

Jamal Adams leadership and supposed confident talking is made fun of on here. Every Adams thread has several posts that has the "joke" term

#leader of men.

Baker Mayfield's best quality is his supposed leadership and his confident talking and that is exactly what we need.

 

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, BCJet said:

I think your assessment is solid, heres my question though.  Does Rosen's unreal talent trump his lack of leadership?

I just am not sure he is a guy who is going to kill himself to win like Baker and Darnold.  

Did  you read my post. I specifically mentioned that I didnt care about the things in the media that were being referenced as far as his leadership.  

-I did read your post above, sounds like you care.  

[UnitedWhofans]

Pat Mahomes was a Big 12 QB. Is he going to struggle?

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Pat Mahomes was a Big 12 QB. Is he going to struggle?

Maybe maybe not but the list of Big 12 Qbs in the nfl last 15 years is pretty ugly

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

Jamal Adams leadership and supposed confident talking is made fun of on here. Every Adams thread has several posts that has the "joke" term

#leader of men.

Baker Mayfield's best quality is his supposed leadership and his confident talking and that is exactly what we need.

 

And Adams’ “leadership” led to the 25th overall ranked defense

[Patriot Killa]

9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And Adams’ “leadership” led to the 25th overall ranked defense

Yeah because that’s Jamal Adams playing MLB for Darron Lee, getting burned and caught out of place, right? 

Yeah because that’s Jamal Adams playing LE for Mo Wilkerson, being a lazy POS, right?

Yeah because that Jamal Adams playing slot CB for Buster Skrine, getting constant flags and getting burned across the middle, right?

not only that...

Safety and Quarterback are two vastly different positions with two different values to the game. 

Do you realize how bad you just sounded?

[Beerfish]

6 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yeah because that’s Jamal Adams playing MLB for Darron Lee, getting burned and caught out of place, right? 

Yeah because that’s Jamal Adams playing LE for Mo Wilkerson, being a lazy POS, right?

Yeah because that Jamal Adams playing slot CB for Buster Skrine, getting constant flags and getting burned across the middle, right?

not only that...

Safety and Quarterback are two vastly different positions with two different values to the game. 

Do you realize how bad you just sounded?

QB, OT, CB, RB, WR, play making TE, Pass rusher, Dline all have higher value than safety and we used our top two picks on them last year.

[Patriot Killa]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

QB, OT, CB, RB, WR, play making TE, Pass rusher, Dline all have higher value than safety and we used our top two picks on them last year.

Right, but my point was Jamal Adams can’t impact the game in the same way a Franchise QB can. So this Adams “Leadership” cannot compare to Bakers leadership because the offense moves as Baker would. It doesn’t with Adams. That’s not even a slight on Adams. Ed Reed had tremendous leadership but as a MLB and “QB of the Defense” Ray Lewis leadership mattered more.

 

[Beerfish]

In todays NFL leadership is vastly over rated.  Most nfl players especially vets after they get paid will tell the raw raw qb to stuff it. 

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

In todays NFL leadership is vastly over rated.  Most nfl players especially vets after they get paid will tell the raw raw qb to stuff it. 

Leadership doesn’t have to really mean “Hey guys, I believe in you, let’s do this!” type stuff.

It really can be leading by example and playing hard at all times. Baker does that. Adams does that too, except if Baker does it, it matters to the outcome of the game more. 

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Yeah because that’s Jamal Adams playing MLB for Darron Lee, getting burned and caught out of place, right? 

Yeah because that’s Jamal Adams playing LE for Mo Wilkerson, being a lazy POS, right?

Yeah because that Jamal Adams playing slot CB for Buster Skrine, getting constant flags and getting burned across the middle, right?

not only that...

Safety and Quarterback are two vastly different positions with two different values to the game. 

Do you realize how bad you just sounded?

Adams is a totally mediocre player at a low value position give it a rest

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

Leadership doesn’t have to really mean “Hey guys, I believe in you, let’s do this!” type stuff.

It really can be leading by example and playing hard at all times. Baker does that. Adams does that too, except if Baker does it, it matters to the outcome of the game more. 

Timmy Tebow was a great leader too in college

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Adams is a totally mediocre player at a low value position give it a rest

Mediocre? You are a mediocre troll is what you mean.

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Timmy Tebow was a great leader too in college

Cool and he had the slowest wind up release I have ever witnessed.