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For those who think we overpaid...


k-met57

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granted that was a 2 QB draft at the top, but i think this is the closest comp. we def paid the price...but far from overpay.

 

Redskins trade up for RGIII

Redskins receive: 2012 first-rounder (No. 2: QB Robert Griffin III) 
Rams receive: 2012 first-rounder (No. 6: Traded to Cowboys), 2012 second-round selection (No. 39: CB Janoris Jenkins), 2013 first-rounder (No. 22: Traded to Falcons), 2014 first-rounder (No. 2: OT Greg Robinson) 

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I don't think we overpaid.  Had Buffalo traded up to #3, we would've been in a far worse spot in terms of having to overpay to get in the top 4 picks.  Now Buffalo is facing that scenario.  They do have plenty of ammunition to get to either #1,2,4 but it's going to cost them a ton of picks. 

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28 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’s sour grapes because it was the Jets. If the Bills traded both their firsts and a 2019 two, they’d be throwing a parade for them. 

The Bills would have had to give up even more to equal what we gave the Colts.  We gave the Colts 2960 your scenario gives the Colts only 2500. Probably would have cost them a #1 in 2019 instead of the #2.

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35 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I think it was an expensive trade up but far from prohibitively so and making the deal now probably made it cheaper than it would have been on draft day.  I support the trade up at some point you have to have balls.

the price seems about right but i wish they landed another good olineman in free agency before trading the twos.

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17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s sour grapes because it was the Jets. If the Bills traded both their firsts and a 2019 two, they’d be throwing a parade for them. 

and the Bills would have made a move eventually then we would have been whining about how the Bills QB should have been ours for the next decade. Macc did a great job here w/ the trade and now he has to do a great job picking the right guy.

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17 hours ago, k-met57 said:

granted that was a 2 QB draft at the top, but i think this is the closest comp. we def paid the price...but far from overpay.

 

Redskins trade up for RGIII

Redskins receive: 2012 first-rounder (No. 2: QB Robert Griffin III) 
Rams receive: 2012 first-rounder (No. 6: Traded to Cowboys), 2012 second-round selection (No. 39: CB Janoris Jenkins), 2013 first-rounder (No. 22: Traded to Falcons), 2014 first-rounder (No. 2: OT Greg Robinson) 

There are some similarities here, where a 1 next year is like a 2 this year; a 1 in two years is a 2 next year.    In that way the package is somewhat similar.  Except it is for #2 pick and the jets save the number 1s which is key for future.

 

None of it matters if we draft the right QB.

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11 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

and the Bills would have made a move eventually then we would have been whining about how the Bills QB should have been ours for the next decade. Macc did a great job here w/ the trade and now he has to do a great job picking the right guy.

Who are your top 3 QB's junc?

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17 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s sour grapes because it was the Jets. If the Bills traded both their firsts and a 2019 two, they’d be throwing a parade for them. 

The abomination known as T0mPac needs to be killed with fire.

This example is nonsensical as Washington traded into spot #2 with 2 top flight QB's in the draft whereas the Jets traded into spot #3 with two top flight QB's in the draft. Not comparable.

Even if the above wasn't true, attempting to compare it favorably to a trade that didn't work out so well for Washington proves what exactly? It will be less of a disaster for us?

 

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31 minutes ago, CTM said:

The abomination known as T0mPac needs to be killed with fire.

This example is nonsensical as Washington traded into spot #2 with 2 top flight QB's in the draft whereas the Jets traded into spot #3 with two top flight QB's in the draft. Not comparable.

Even if the above wasn't true, attempting to compare it favorably to a trade that didn't work out so well for Washington proves what exactly? It will be less of a disaster for us?

 

There is no TomPac and you take that back right now, sir. I tried to extend an olive branch to that slimy chimp and he immediately betrayed my good faith. 

 

I wasnt comparing it to the Redskins deal, or any deal for that matter. I just don’t see it as an overpay because we’re now guaranteed to be in position for a QB whereas two days ago we were likely to get shut out, which would have been gross.

 

Today, it occurs to me that the Jets could very well have traded up for Saquon Barkley, so now I’m back to being morose.

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I'd've preferred to hold onto Seattle's second rounder and given them the Jets' third, but that's nit-picking. It's expensive to trade up when QBs are involved. Jets are in position to get -at a minimum- one of their top three QB prospects, and they must have them pretty tightly rated to be happy here. Who knows? Mac could have Mayfield or Allen as his #1. 

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17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

There is no TomPac and you take that back right now, sir. I tried to extend an olive branch to that slimy chimp and he immediately betrayed my good faith. 

 

I wasnt comparing it to the Redskins deal, or any deal for that matter. I just don’t see it as an overpay because we’re not guaranteed to be in position for a QB whereas two days ago we were likely to get shut out, which would have been gross.

 

Today, it occurs to me that the Jets could very well have traded up for Saquon Barkley, so now I’m back to being morose.

We overpaid based on the chart, I agree the chart gets thrown out the window when a true FQB option is available (like RGIII), but it appears there are 2 of them this draft so picking 3 seems to leave us on the outside looking in. Giving up 3 2's for Allen, Mayfield or Barkley for that matter is not the same as doing so for RGIII.

Lets hope the Bills jump to 2 and grab Allen.

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6 minutes ago, CTM said:

We overpaid based on the chart, I agree the chart gets thrown out the window when a true FQB option is available (like RGIII), but it appears there are 2 of them this draft so picking 3 seems to leave us on the outside looking in. Giving up 3 2's for Allen, Mayfield or Barkley for that matter is not the same as doing so for RGIII.

Lets hope the Bills jump to 2 and grab Allen.

I think the chart goes out the window because the Bills were going to make that trade if the Jets didn’t. As for there only being two franchise QBs, I mean, who knows? A lot of people didn’t think Watson and Mahomes were franchise QBs and yet their franchises are building offenses around them. And we have a safety.

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8 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

This is kind of the problem.

Lol, I get it. Either they surprise us with a true franchise QB or they get fired. I'm content with either outcome.  

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1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I think the chart goes out the window because the Bills were going to make that trade if the Jets didn’t. As for there only being two franchise QBs, I mean, who knows? A lot of people didn’t think Watson and Mahomes were franchise QBs and yet their franchises are building offenses around them. And we have a safety.

We're talking about players who have the credentials, body type and statistical profile to warrant going #1, Allen and Mayfield don't fit that mold.

Watson and Mahomes didn't cost their teams 3 2nd round picks. 

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7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the chart goes out the window because the Bills were going to make that trade if the Jets didn’t. As for there only being two franchise QBs, I mean, who knows? A lot of people didn’t think Watson and Mahomes were franchise QBs and yet their franchises are building offenses around them. And we have a safety.

Watson and Mahomes at least were not just throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. What about 2011? Everybody knew that class sucked and everybody was right but false hope was selling as brisk as ever.

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7 minutes ago, CTM said:

We're talking about players who have the credentials, body type and statistical profile to warrant going #1, Allen and Mayfield don't fit that mold.

Watson and Mahomes didn't cost their teams 3 2nd round picks. 

Eventually there's gonna be a quarterback who couldn't throw the ball to the guy in college who figures out how to do it in the NFL. And you know what happens then. The nerds were wrong all along!

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7 minutes ago, CTM said:

We're talking about players who have the credentials, body type and statistical profile to warrant going #1, Allen and Mayfield don't fit that mold.

Watson and Mahomes didn't cost their teams 3 2nd round picks. 

 

2 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Watson and Mahomes at least were not just throwing stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. What about 2011? Everybody knew that class sucked and everybody was right but false hope was selling as brisk as ever.

Far be it from me to tamp down Jets skepticism, and I agree with both of you on these similar points, but the Jets are moribund, Maccagnan is never going to build the team in any sort of coherent way, and if they stayed at 6 they were going to draft a sixth safety.

 

Did they get porked on compensation? Somewhat 

Is there still a greater than 60% chance they draft the wrong player at 3? God yes.

Does it matter if you take away a few second round picks from Mike Maccagnan? Hell no.

Is there a chance that old-school Dave Gettleman comes to hate millennial archetype Josh Rosen and passes on him for a RB? Yes

Does drafting Mayfield give them a puncher’s chance of stumbling onto a transformational player? I think so.

 

So, that’s where I am. If, in a few weeks, we’re sitting here and the Jets drafted Saquon or Josh Allen, I will join you guys at the pitchfork party. For now, I’m just gonna revel in a couple of weeks of the Jets not being entirely hopeless. These times are exceedingly rare.

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5 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Eventually there's gonna be a quarterback who couldn't throw the ball to the guy in college who figures out how to do it in the NFL. And you know what happens then. The nerds were wrong all along!

Yep, I believe I said in a thread yesterday lets hope that guy is Allen

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24 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think the chart goes out the window because the Bills were going to make that trade if the Jets didn’t. As for there only being two franchise QBs, I mean, who knows? A lot of people didn’t think Watson and Mahomes were franchise QBs and yet their franchises are building offenses around them. And we have a safety.

I don't really follow here. The Bills were about to trade half their draft for a jar of magic beans, so we jumped in and did it instead, and that's...good? No idea what you're on about with Watson and Mahomes. All of the indicators that said they'd be worth a first are saying Allen will be a world-historic disaster, and all those people who spent last offseason snarking about Watson's radar gun reading are now asking that we trust them while they rave about Allen's upside.

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5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

I’m just gonna revel in a couple of weeks of the Jets not being entirely hopeless. 

You met a girl (or whatever you are into, and that is ok) this week, didn't you.? Spring will come and she (or whatever) will still be around and you will be downright giddy. Congrats!

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7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

 

Far be it from me to tamp down Jets skepticism, and I agree with both of you on these similar points, but the Jets are moribund, Maccagnan is never going to build the team in any sort of coherent way, and if they stayed at 6 they were going to draft a sixth safety.

 

Did they get porked on compensation? Somewhat 

Is there still a greater than 60% chance they draft the wrong player at 3? God yes.

Does it matter if you take away a few second round picks from Mike Maccagnan? Hell no.

Is there a chance that old-school Dave Gettleman comes to hate millennial archetype Josh Rosen and passes on him for a RB? Yes

Does drafting Mayfield give them a puncher’s chance of stumbling onto a transformational player? I think so.

 

So, that’s where I am. If, in a few weeks, we’re sitting here and the Jets drafted Saquon or Josh Allen, I will join you guys at the pitchfork party. For now, I’m just gonna revel in a couple of weeks of the Jets not being entirely hopeless. These times are exceedingly rare.

I agree that Rosen is more likely to be there at 3 than at 6 which is good, the problem is that we gave up a bunch for a lot of ifs, maybe's and but's when the most likely scenario is that we're on the clock at 3 choosing between Allen and Mayfield, one of whom we shouldn't draft and the other likely would've been there at 6 anyway. I don't think it drastically improved our position relative to the cost

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7 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I don't really follow here. The Bills were about to trade half their draft for a jar of magic beans, so we jumped in and did it instead, and that's...good? No idea what you're on about with Watson and Mahomes. All of the indicators that said they'd be worth a first are saying Allen will be a world-historic disaster, and all those people who spent last offseason snarking about Watson's radar gun reading are now asking that we trust them while they rave about Allen's upside.

1. If we draft Allen, I’ll hate it too.

2. The reason I’m even vaguely interested in Baker Mayfield is precisely because I (and many others) were so very wrong about Watson’s chances. Maybe the future of quarterbacking is here now and a creative coach can replicate the spread in a way that makes guys like Watson and Mayfield viable stars. 

3. The third pick gives you as much of a chance at drafting Rosen as it does Mayfield or Allen. The two teams in front of us are run by cavemen who may or may not get up in their feelings over any of the top quarterbacks. If I’m betting the mortgage, I think reason prevails and the Giants take Rosen after Shurmur and Mike Shula threaten to burn the place down if they pass. 

4.At six, we had no chance at Mayfield, or Rosen, or Darnold. The Jets just bought themselves a chance. I don’t see why this is a bad thing. Because it deprives Maccagnan of a few second rounders?

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

4.At six, we had no chance at Mayfield, or Rosen, or Darnold. The Jets just bought themselves a chance. I don’t see why this is a bad thing. Because it deprives Maccagnan of a few second rounders?

why did we have no shot at Mayfield at 6?

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9 minutes ago, CTM said:

I agree that Rosen is more likely to be there at 3 than at 6 which is good, the problem is that we gave up a bunch for a lot of ifs, maybe's and but's when the most likely scenario is that we're on the clock at 3 choosing between Allen and Mayfield, one of whom we shouldn't draft and the other likely would've been there at 6 anyway. I don't think it drastically improved our position relative to the cost

I’d disagree that Mayfield would have been there at six. Elway is supposed to be in love with him, and they sent the full contingent to the OU Pro Day. As for the cost, it’s this: The chance of Rosen dropping OR Baker Mayfield being good vs the chance that Mike Maccagnan turns any of three second round picks into a player more valuable than Mayfield or Rosen. 

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1 hour ago, CTM said:

The abomination known as T0mPac needs to be killed with fire.

This example is nonsensical as Washington traded into spot #2 with 2 top flight QB's in the draft whereas the Jets traded into spot #3 with two top flight QB's in the draft. Not comparable.

Even if the above wasn't true, attempting to compare it favorably to a trade that didn't work out so well for Washington proves what exactly? It will be less of a disaster for us?

 

First of all people think there are 3 top flight QBs available today, different debate.  Its still what it cost to move up.

Secondly, makes no difference that the trade didnt work out, doesnt change what ther cost is to move up and throws out the idea that the situations arent comparable because there were two top QBs, turns out there was only one

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