Will giants take Barkley?

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

And to be honest, I'm sure I could talk myself into Allen, as well. 

I bet alot of folks here are thinking that right now, even if they won't admit before they're big "Ok, I'm on the Allen Train" post-draft-day rationalization, lol.

[Sonny Werblin]

A trade with the Bills doesn't sound too likely. This late in the game and their GM says this?

 

Quote

 

Buffalo Bills general manager Brandon Beane told Peter King of The MMQB that he wasn't ready to commit to moving up in the 2018 NFL draft to select one of this year's talented rookie quarterbacks:

"The truth? Most of these quarterbacks I've only spent 15 minutes with. [At the combine, each team can meet with prospects for a maximum of 15 minutes per player.] I haven't spent enough time to have an opinion about any of them yet, honestly. I actually sent a little note to our [scouts] yesterday. We got six weeks to get our board together. I am not there yet, knowing if we can or will move up again. I want [head coach] Sean [McDermott] to get to know all of them. We're just keeping an open mind. Where we're at, we've got the picks, we've got the draft capital. I'm not ready to pull the trigger."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2765382-bills-gm-brandon-beane-tells-peter-king-hes-not-ready-to-trade-up-to-draft-a-qb

 

 

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

if they don't go QB, Saquon Barkley is a better prospect than even Quenton Nelson.   

That’s just as possible, yup. I can only hope for one of those two to be the prospect they are locked in on.

[bitonti]

Just now, Warfish said:

I bet alot of folks here are thinking that right now, even if they won't admit before they're big "Ok, I'm on the Allen Train" post-draft-day rationalization, lol.

At this point the only rational thing to do is be so Pro Allen that the Giants and Browns call the bluff. Hey remember when Kiper said Allen goes 1? Count how many mocks Allen can go 1 in...  Reverse jinx and in a worse case scenario, self-delusion. 

just another day for a die hard Jets fan 

 

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

A trade with the Bills doesn't sound too likely. This late in the game and their GM says this?

 

 

This is exactly the article I read and why I think the Bills will try to trade up but if they can’t, they won’t force the issue and overpay into the 2800-3000 waters as far as value goes. 

1st pick is worth 3000. Giants will price their pick at the very least 2800 given the fact Indy got 2600.

The Jets over paying sorta helped them as well.

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I bet alot of folks here are thinking that right now, even if they won't admit before they're big "Ok, I'm on the Allen Train" post-draft-day rationalization, lol.

I'd prefer Mayfield over Allen if the top 2 QBs are taken already, but if the Jets take Allen I know he is far better than anything we've had in years. I'll be on board rooting my heart out for the kid. 

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I bet alot of folks here are thinking that right now, even if they won't admit before they're big "Ok, I'm on the Allen Train" post-draft-day rationalization, lol.

The thing is, my impression is that NFL teams like Allen a lot more than we do. 

Is it implausible to think that either the Browns take him #1 overall OR the that the Giants take him at #2?

Also, call me naive, but I absolutely think the Giants could take Barkley. 

There are several different ways this thing could go. Plenty of uncertainty left. 

[bitonti]

Just now, Patriot Killa said:

That’s just as possible, yup. I can only hope for one of those two to be the prospect they are locked in on.

when the trade first happened one of the gurus (Rapoport? not sure) was on the phone with NFL network saying that this meant the Jets felt the Giants would not be taking a QB at 2 and they had 2 QBs they were comfortable with... assuming that is true, the overall lack of consensus among the QBs really does drive up Saquon Barkley's value. 

[prime21]

I'm not worried about what Buffalo does.  Moving up to 3 means we are are prepared to go with our 3rd rated QB in the draft.  And that is assuming that Cleveland and the Giants are ranking thema the same and selecting QB's.  

Maybe if Buffalo jumps in front of us and that guy is wrecking us for the next 10 years then I will care.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The thing is, my impression is that NFL teams like Allen a lot more than we do. 

Is it implausible to think that either the Browns take him #1 overall OR the that the Giants take him at #2?

Also, call me naive, but I absolutely think the Giants could take Barkley. 

There are several different ways this thing to do. Plenty of uncertainty left. 

i can't see the giants taking barkley.  they have the 2nd pick in the 2nd round and can get a very good rb there.  but very good qbs are much harder to get as we sadly know.  and the reality is that the giants have some work to do to catch the eagles and cowboys and they're really not a top team with eli at this point.  they could finish last in the division again.  the team needs a new locker room leader.  the team imploded right under eli's nose.

i think the giants take rosen.  i think they'll get a mega offer from buffalo but in the end the giants fully understand the value of a franchise qb.  so i think the top 3 goes in 1 of two ways:

1) darnold/rosen/mayfield

2) allen/rosen/darnold

the jets get a qb who bates can build a system around.  the giants get their qb of the future.  

[Sonny Werblin]

Funny thing is that the Jets likely know more about the top 5 QB's than any other team. They had a scout at all of their games and have been looking into all of them for the past 8 months.  All because the Jets knew they were going to stink and needed to draft a QB. The Giants are late to the game. Their intel on the QB's is no better than any other team. In that scenario, picking a QB is more of a gamble than a calculation. The position player is more of a sure thing. I say they go Barkley because Gettleman does not seem the gambling tyoe.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

when the trade first happened one of the gurus (Rapoport? not sure) was on the phone with NFL network saying that this meant the Jets felt the Giants would not be taking a QB at 2 and they had 2 QBs they were comfortable with... assuming that is true, the overall lack of consensus among the QBs really does drive up Saquon Barkley's value. 

Exactly and it puts the Giants and Browns under pressure to take the guy over what they had previously had in mind.(though I think the Giants always had Barkley as a real possibility with #2)

His combine workout really solidified that possibility. Gettleman can’t put on his tape and just not drool over the pick. He’ll take a sure fire prospect.

That I know. 

[Warfish]

6 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I'll be on board rooting my heart out for the kid. 

I suppose we all will.  Whats the alternative really?

Hence why the team can be so poorly run.  We're suckers, frankly.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Funny thing is that the Jets likely know more about the top 5 QB's than any other team. They had a scout at all of their games and have been looking into all of them for the past 8 months.  All because the Jets knew they were going to stink and needed to draft a QB. The Giants are late to the game. Their intel on the QB's is no better than any other team. In that scenario, picking a QB is more of a gamble than a calculation. The position player is more of a sure thing. I say they go Barkley because Gettleman does not seem the gambling tyoe.

And will Beane be in his first ever draft as a first time GM? Will he be this aggressive? That is a lot of weight on one rookie GM’s shoulders.

[Sully80]

I think people aren't giving enough attention to the fact that this Gettleman just got the Giants GM job. Drafting a QB in the first round buys you a couple of years of job security but if you're wrong you're probably out after that. No one will fault Gettleman for taking the BPA, generational talent, Barkley in attempt to make the playoffs/win-now. If that doesn't work and Gettleman's job security is in question he can draft a 1st round QB and buy himself another year or 2 as GM at least if that QB busts. 

This is essentially what Maccagnan has done, thrown money and band aid QBs at the problem and now that his job is on the line he's forced to draft a young QB and if he hits he gets to keep his job but if he misses he still holds onto it for another year or two. 

[slimjasi]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

i can't see the giants taking barkley.  they have the 2nd pick in the 2nd round and can get a very good rb there.  but very good qbs are much harder to get as well sadly know.  and the reality is that the giants have some work to do to catch the eagles and cowboys and they're really not a top team with eli at this point.  they could finish last in the division again.  the team needs a new locker room leader.  the team imploded right under eli's nose.

i think the giants take rosen.  i think they'll get a mega offer from buffalo but in the end the giants fully understand the value of a franchise qb.  so i think the top 3 goes in 1 of two ways:

1) darnold/rosen/mayfield

2) allen/rosen/darnold

the jets get a qb who bates can build a system around.  the giants get their qb of the future.  

I would not be surprised at all if the Giants take Rosen (or Allen). I could see it going either way. I just think Barkley makes sense for them, based on what they have already done. 

If I were them, I would ABSOLUTELY take the QB that I wanted . . . But I'm not convinced yet that they will. 

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

The thing is, my impression is that NFL teams like Allen a lot more than we do. 

I agree, that does seem the case.  NFL GM's get dizzy thinking about perfect prototypical physical specimens who can toss it 70 yards without trying.

Like Jeff George.

Quote

Is it implausible to think that either the Browns take him #1 overall OR the that the Giants take him at #2?

Unlikely.  But not impossible.

Quote

Also, call me naive, but I absolutely think the Giants could take Barkley.

You do not skip a franchise QB if you're at pick #2 for the first time in deacdes, and your existing Franchise QB has maybe, MAYBE, one to two years left for you before he Namath-to-the-Rams.

Quote

There are several different ways this thing could go. Plenty of uncertainty left. 

I don't think so.  Darnold #1, Browns, Rosen #2, Giants, Allen #3 Jets.

But I've been wrong before so maybe you're right.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

I would not be surprised at all if the Giants take Rosen (or Allen). I could see it going either way. I just think Barkley makes sense for them, based on what they have already done. 

If I were them, I would ABSOLUTELY take the QB that I wanted . . . But I'm not convinced yet that they will. 

i think any talk by the giants of taking barkley is to entice cleveland to do it so the giants get their choice of qbs.  

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Exactly and it puts the Giants and Browns under pressure to take the guy over what they had previously had in mind.(though I think the Giants always had Barkley as a real possibility with #2)

His combine workout really solidified that possibility. Gettleman can’t put on his tape and just not drool over the pick. He’ll take a sure fire prospect.

That I know. 

best case he's Barry Sanders at 230

worst case (defending a bust to his bosses) he had a ridiculous college career and better SPARQ numbers than 98.5% of current NFL running backs 

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/running-back/

I was a doubter before the combine and many will say that's not a reason to draft anyone. But that workout was historic and drafting Barkley doesn't get anyone fired. Mac probably hopes it goes Allen - Darnold - Barkley.

Mayfield and Rosen could be great, could get you fired.

Darnold is the chalk pick, Allen is an ideal Mac/GM mindset pick cause he buys like 4 years. Barkley sells jerseys for 3 or 4 seasons.

I don't know what's going to happen in the draft but a good start is to assume Mac does everything to not get fired and work from there.  He's taken a risk in moving up but he's still not mister risk taker. 

[Patriot Killa]

Just now, Sully80 said:

I think people aren't giving enough attention to the fact that this Gettleman just got the Giants GM job. Drafting a QB in the first round buys you a couple of years of job security but if you're wrong you're probably out after that. No one will fault Gettleman for taking the BPA, generational talent, Barkley in attempt to make the playoffs/win-now. If that doesn't work and Gettleman's job security is in question he can draft a 1st round QB and buy himself another year or 2 as GM at least if that QB busts. 

This is essentially what Maccagnan has done, thrown money and band aid QBs at the problem and now that his job is on the line he's forced to draft a young QB and if he hits he gets to keep his job but if he misses he still holds onto it for another year or two. 

Not only this but if your first ever pick(which is an extremely high one at #2) happens to be a player that you won’t even be playing for a year or two..how well does that sit with people? It’s begging for scrutiny. He is basically passing on his best shot at succeeding with Eli by not taking a impact player that can help win now. It would go back on everything he has said prior to the draft. It would make him look clueless. They barely spent money on the O-line that they prioritized at the beginning of the offseason. They didn’t put any more weapons around Eli. So what is he doing by taking a QB at 2 but not addressing win now players in free agency? The context clues tell me he isn’t going Rosen.

Trading down is more likely then taking Rosen in my opinion. And as I mentioned about Beane. It’s a tough one for him too.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i think any talk by the giants of taking barkley is to entice cleveland to do it so the giants get their choice of qbs.  

Very possible that the Giants are taking a QB, but I would be legitimately shocked if the Browns don't take a QB at #1. Not after passing on so many potential franchise QBs over the past few years. That town is just as desperate for a QB as we are. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, bitonti said:

best case he's Barry Sanders at 230

worst case (defending a bust to his bosses) he had a ridiculous college career and better SPARQ numbers than 98.5% of current NFL running backs 

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/running-back/

I was a doubter before the combine and many will say that's not a reason to draft anyone. But that workout was historic and drafting Barkley doesn't get anyone fired. Mac probably hopes it goes Allen - Darnold - Barkley.

Mayfield and Rosen could be great, could get you fired.

Darnold is the chalk pick, Allen is an ideal Mac/GM mindset pick cause he buys like 4 years. Barkley sells jerseys for 3 or 4 seasons.

I don't know what's going to happen in the draft but a good start is to assume Mac does everything to not get fired and work from there. 

mccagnan has already taken steps to not get fired by acquiesing to the johnsons and trading up.  and i think allen gets him fired, b/c he won't see the field this year and the media will bury mccagnan for taking a 3rd qb who sucks and the cry will be to bring in a new hc who knows offense and a new gm who can draft a qb who can see the field.  

i don't care about height, the trade was made b/c mayfield moved into 3rd place and is now the consolation prize.  his game is ideal for bates and truth i can see the guy playing well in camp and making a case to start right away.  and bowles could get fired by the johnsons if he starts making him inactive.

[Patriot Killa]

1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

Very possible that the Giants are taking a QB, but I would be legitimately shocked if the Browns don't take a QB at #1. Not after passing on so many potential franchise QBs over the past few years. That town is just as desperate for a QB as we are. 

Yeah, the Browns definitely take one. Dorsey is better than any GM they have probably ever come across and his is an excellent talent evaluator at that..they should do well with all those picks.

[rangerous]

the thing is the giaints may not have the number 2 pick again for quite some time.  is webb the answer to eli?  maybe but probably not.  they should pick a qb and plan for eli's eventual launch.

[Sully80]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I agree, that does seem the case.  NFL GM's get dizzy thinking about perfect prototypical physical specimens who can toss it 70 yards without trying.

Like Jeff George.

Unlikely.  But not impossible.

You do not skip a franchise QB if you're at pick #2 for the first time in deacdes, and your existing Franchise QB has maybe, MAYBE, one to two years left for you before he Namath-to-the-Rams.

I don't think so.  Darnold #1, Browns, Rosen #2, Giants, Allen #3 Jets.

But I've been wrong before so maybe you're right.

I think Barkley is in play with the Browns and Giants at 1, 2. More so with the Giants. I agree that "you don't skip a franchise QB if you're at pick #2 and your current QB has 1-3 years left", but I don't think its a fireable offense, especially if Barkley is the stud everyone thinks he is. Their fan base is RB starved and in love with Eli, he won't face an incredible amount of backlash for the pick. Also, if both go QB, one of the two could take Allen, it's an outside shot, but a lot of talent evaluators really covet Allen's physical tools. Jets are definitely in play for Rosen and Darnold at 3, I agree it's more likely that Allen is the pick at 3 but Rosen and Darnold could be on the board and it wouldn't shock me.

[Patriot Killa]

4 minutes ago, rangerous said:

the thing is the giaints may not have the number 2 pick again for quite some time.  is webb the answer to eli?  maybe but probably not.  they should pick a qb and plan for eli's eventual launch.

Just from reading some of their fans posts. It seems like the organization really likes Webb and feels that they can add a QB in the second/third round with the confidence that they can develop a QB.

only our fan base and the Browns feel bad about developing QB’s..or talent in general lmao

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Sully80 said:

Their fan base is RB starved and in love with Eli

I continue to tell folks that they vastly overrate the importance of what the fanbase thinks to a General Manager.

But no one seems to believe me.

[Sully80]

5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Not only this but if your first ever pick(which is an extremely high one at #2) happens to be a player that you won’t even be playing for a year or two..how well does that sit with people? It’s begging for scrutiny. He is basically passing on his best shot at succeeding with Eli by not taking a impact player that can help win now. It would go back on everything he has said prior to the draft. It would make him look clueless. They barely spent money on the O-line that they prioritized at the beginning of the offseason. They didn’t put any more weapons around Eli. So what is he doing by taking a QB at 2 but not addressing win now players in free agency? The context clues tell me he isn’t going Rosen.

Trading down is more likely then taking Rosen in my opinion. And as I mentioned about Beane. It’s a tough one for him too.

I don't think it necessarily makes him look clueless but it does go back on what he's said prior to the draft, plus fans would be restless and put pressure on him to start year 1 especially if the giants are out of it by week 12-14. Drafting Rosen would significantly expedite Gettleman's job review. Drafting a bust and Allen or Mayfield turn out to be studs? He'd be finished very quickly. 

[Patriot Killa]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I continue to tell folks that they vastly overrate the importance of what the fanbase thinks to a General Manager.

But no one seems to believe me.

You are right. At the same time, it is extremely hard to say all these things about how you think Eli is good to go for 3 more years, he just needs a O-line, he just needs some weapons.

Just to go out and only spend money on Solder and add no weapons at all for Eli. It tells me they want to grab immediate impact players in the draft and taking a QB #2 doesn’t fit that notion.

I am just assuming using context clues tbh. It really can go any which way.

[Dcat]

47 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i think any talk by the giants of taking barkley is to entice cleveland to do it so the giants get their choice of qbs.  

If I were Gettleman, I'd be publicizing my love and adoration for Barkley to the best of ability... so much so that Cleveland, if they really want Barkley, would take him at #1.  Or another team that covets Barkley would give him a boatload of picks to move up to 2 but enough so that the Giants could still draft Rudolph or Jackson.  I doubt Gettleman believes that Barkley alone gets him to the Superbowl or even the playoffs.  IOW, Gettleman would be a jerk not to look for Eli's replacement now, in 2018.  Not later.  They keep Eli one more year and then release him.  Darnold or Rosen would be the starter in 2019 and if they trade down, they'll have one of Rudolph, Jackson, Lauletta, Falk or White. 

 Per Eli's contract, if they cut him before the 5th day of the 2019 NFL year (around 3/19/19), the Giants would have a dead money cap hit of $6,200,000 and zero cash spent on him for 2019.  They could split that dead money hit between 2019 and 2020 if they declare him to be a post June 1st cut.  However if they keep Eli through 2019, they get walloped with a 23,200,000 cap hit AND $17,000,000 cash spent on Eli next year.  If I'm Gettleman, I'd tell the owner No F'ing Way to that.  If he is smart, Gettleman is going to draft the Giants future QB with the 2nd pick this year.

I strongly believe that this will be Eli's final season as a Giant.

[Augustiniak]

6 minutes ago, Dcat said:

If I were Gettleman, I'd be publicizing my love and adoration for Barkley to the best of ability... so much so that Cleveland, if they really want Barkley, would take him at #1.  Or another team that covets Barkley would give him a boatload of picks to move up to 2.  I doubt Gettleman believes that Barkley alone gets him to the Superbowl or even the playoffs.  IOW, Gettleman would be a jerk not to look for Eli's replacement now, in 2018.  Not later.  They keep Eli one more year and then release him.  Darnold or Rosen would be the starter in 2019.  

 Per Eli's contract, if they cut him before the 5th day of the 2019 NFL year (around 3/19/19), the Giants would have a dead money cap hit of $6,200,000 and zero cash spent on him for 2019.  They could split that dead money hit between 2019 and 2020 if they declare him to be a post June 1st cut.  However if they keep Eli through 2019, they get walloped with a 23,200,000 cap hit AND $17,000,000 cash spent on Eli next year.  If I'm Gettleman, I'd tell the owner No F'ing Way to that.  If he is smart, Gettleman is going to draft the Giants future QB with the 2nd pick this year.

I strongly believe that this will be Eli's final season as a Giant.

i think a bigger question is whether eli would consider playing for another team, or if he'd retire before he starts getting injured.  either way i can see rosen as a giant.  

[T0mShane]

45 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

They are calling Nelson, Larry Allen. I understand Guard at 2 is a bit of a stretch of the imagination but I could really see it if they feel he is one of the only sure fire picks and potential “gold jackets” as Gettleguy mentioned.

Yep. The Bills scenario scares the life outta me..and he surely could use the picks given the fact that he only has 5...but does Beane pull it off in his first draft ever? Lots of pressure  but Quite possible. Lots of Bills fans are telling me that we shot our load too quickly and now we are going to pay for it. From Beanes comments it sounds like he will do his best to move up to 2...and if he can’t do it easy enough, he won’t push the issue because they like where they are.

I mean, they called Chance Warmack the next Larry Allen. Not saying it’s not possible, but it’d be a streeeeeeeeeeetch. If they pass on a QB, they’re looking at Mason Rudolph and assorted trash from there on out. If they’re set on improving the OL and they pass on Nelson, they’ll have Wynn, Daniels, Price, etc available to them in the second and beyond.

 

RE: the Bills, the Jets are getting KILLED for dumping three 2’s in this deal. Imagine how much the Bills will have to pay for 2? 

[T0mShane]

53 minutes ago, CTM said:

I think it's as simple as whether or not they think Rosen is a legit FQB type option or not.  If they view him that way, they have to understand that you don't often get a chance to take a guy like that so you pull the trigger. If they are concerned about his injury history or give him just a 1st round grade maybe you take the RB and see if Eli can win another.

Totally agree. There are a lot of ways to justify a Saquon pick there because he’s a no-doubt star on and off the field. That said, they’d have to at least consider a Jets team winning for a decade with the QB they passed on would suck for them

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I mean, they called Chance Warmack the next Larry Allen. Not saying it’s not possible, but it’d be a streeeeeeeeeeetch. If they pass on a QB, they’re looking at Mason Rudolph and assorted trash from there on out. If they’re set on improving the OL and they pass on Nelson, they’ll have Wynn, Daniels, Price, etc available to them in the second and beyond.

 

RE: the Bills, the Jets are getting KILLED for dumping three 2’s in this deal. Imagine how much the Bills will have to pay for 2? 

I think Nelson is a little different than Warmack. I understand your premis though. I do see Barkley in their plans rather than Nelson. Nelson can drop to 5 and the Broncos would more than likely grab him with pleasure.

as for the bolded,,

for a rookie GM in his first draft to trade all those picks for #2..that would give him a unprecedented size of balls tbqh. Jets drove the 2nd pick’s price up by so much when giving away 2600 points in value. The 1st overall pick is worth 3000. Imagine the Giants opinion on what they can get if the Colts got 2600?if they can’t get it..they probably just take a player. Who they take is completely dependent upon the sincerity of Gettleman’s faith in Eli. 

They barely put any weapons around him in FA despite believing he has some years left. They went out and got a 55 year old Jonathan Stewart. I think it’s Barkey and then O-line after that.. but the trade down only will become reality if they don’t feel Eli really has a shot at being himself for 2-3 more years.

 

[Beerfish]

God i hope Cleve or nyg take Barkley.  I'd laugh my ass off a their stupidity.