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Loving Josh Rosen (merged)

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3 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

It wasn’t tho lmao. 5 minutes on the field is not a fair comparison. If you want to compare anything regarding those two than take the side by side practices into consideration as far as skill sets and mechanics go. Baker shined every day while he was there.

Then the combine then, cause he looked a hell of a lot better then Mayfield did in drills. You do realize your proving my point right?

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I like how no one is making the case that Allen is actually a good QB prospect. Rather this seems to be all about how completion% is dumb because 40 years ago when QBs completed far few passes Favre completed 52% in college THEREFORE proof is in the pudding. Oh and if you mention that QBs back then mostly completed something like high40-low50s you're not considering that Allen played in a Pro Style Offense. 

Oh and Matt Stafford

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1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

I like how no one is making the case that Allen is actually a good QB prospect. Rather this seems to be all about how completion% is dumb because 40 years ago when QBs completed far few passes Favre completed 52% in college THEREFORE proof is in the pudding. Oh and if you mention that QBs back then mostly completed something like high40-low50s you're not considering that Allen played in a Pro Style Offense. 

Oh and Matt Stafford

I've posted videos on analysis' on Allen, funny how everyone seems to ignore them. But it makes sense, cause most you guys are box scouting the guy, and have only watched probably like three of his throws total.

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Ok why don't we do this:

Someone look up passing accuracy in 3rd down situations

3rd and Short, 3rd and long. 

Third down is the most critical down in Football. How did allen do there? 

 

LL

 

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10 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

So would I 

I think the odds are pretty good that we end up with Allen and most of the fanbase will be disappointed and even pissed off initially. But if the dude goes out there and is gunning 60 yard TD’s down the field on a frozen rope and making plays with his legs picking up key first downs and extending drives, every last one of us will end up loving the move. There’s no question that Allen possesses the most upside of any QB in this class. 

Meanwhile everyone is ga-ga for Mayfield who easily has the lowest ceiling of the Top 4 guys.

Mark my words if we pick Allen the Allen haters will go ballistic and carry on for months. If we pick any of the other 3 the Allen fans will support it and move on as Jet fans. That's just a different mind set.

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Not sure that I agree with Mayock that Josh Allen is better than Carson Wentz in most areas with the exception of intangibles / football IQ, but it certainly makes for a compelling comparison.  Again, for the record, I want 3 other guys before I'd want to take Allen.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/mike_mayock_on_josh_allens_nfl.html

"INDIANAPOLIS -- Josh Allen drew a collective 'ooh' from the coaches and scouts inside Lucas Oil Stadium with an almost effortless 65-yard throw during his workout at the NFL combine Saturday.

Question is, how impressed were the Browns, who have the No. 1 and No. 4 picks?

"If you're John Dorsey with Cleveland at one and four, you've got to look at (Allen),'' Mayock said during the workout on NFL Network. "He can play indoors, outdoors, all 32 stadiums, cold weather, warm weather, big hands, big arm.''

Mayock insists that Allen (6-4 7/8, 237) is better in some ways than Carson Wentz, who was an NFL MVP candidate before he suffered a season-ending knee injury in December. Wentz had an 11-2 record when he went down.

"Look at the comparison,'' said Mayock. "He's got a bigger arm than Wentz. He's a better athlete than Wentz. I don't know if he brings the intangibles to the table that Wentz does, the leadership and the football IQ, but that's what the decision makers have to find out in the next two months."

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Just now, Thai Jet said:

Mark my words if we pick Allen the Allen haters will go ballistic and carry on for months. If we pick any of the other 3 the Allen fans will support it and move on as Jet fans. That's just a different mind set.

And that’s where you are wrong. As soon as one of these QB’s put on green and white the “hate” goes out the window and I then hope for the best because he’s on my team. Give it a F-n rest.

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Just now, Latinlawyer said:

Ok why don't we do this:

Someone look up passing accuracy in 3rd down situations

3rd and Short, 3rd and long. 

Third down is the most critical down in Football. How did allen do there? 

 

LL

 

Literally box scouting again. Jesus ******* christ. 

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11 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

It wasn't sloppy of him to say. He was merely stating a fact. Your man crush on Rosen has blinded you. I know if we pick Allen you'll go nuts unlike Allen fans who will just except Rosen as our QB if we pick him.

It was one hollow ass fact. 5 minutes on the field isn’t a true examination.

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22 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I know most of you love Rosen - but there are a bunch of red flags that will come across as obvious when his career is over in 4 years...

  • Multipe concussions (with a Brain Surgeon for a father)
  • Shoulder injury already
  • Mutlple stories about this being not a good kid - uncoachable.  Grown men he has to play with aren't going to take kindly to that type of person.
  • His attitude won't play with the NY media - this isn't a Mayfield feisty type, underdog type.  This is an arrogant, I know better than you type.  
  • Seems to be politically outspoken - not helpful in an NFL team enviourment.
  • Mixed reports about his arm strength.  I've read it's below average (have also heard it's strong) but just that there are questions about his arm stregnth is concerning.

I realize there are negatives with all of these QB's - and it seems Josh Rosen has a lot of qualities to like in a QB - but these type of Red Flags would take him off of my first round board.

Most of this stuff is provably false. For instance: 

  • Josh Rosen's father is NOT a brain surgeon - he's a spinal surgeon. 
  • He's had multiple concussions, which is true - he's had two. I can't think of any QB sho has ever chosen to retire early due to concussions, so if he does so it will be a first.
  • Not being coachable? He's not Ryan Leaf. Mike McCarthy hates Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers hates Mike McCarthy - who cares? I've watched Tom Brady scream at Bill O'brien and Josh Mccdaniels and have watched both of them scream at Tom Brady. Again, who cares?
  • His attitude won't play well in New York? He's too political? He's a smart, liberal, rich, elitist, smug piece of sh*t. This makes him the PERFECT fit for NYC.
  • The "mixed" reports of arm strength concerns come from one scouting report on NFL.com (that I know of) and reads like the person wrote it without ever watching him play. His arm is plenty good and is better than most NFL arms.

If Josh Rosen isn't on your first round board, then you shouldn't have a draft board.

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1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

And that’s where you are wrong. As soon as one of these QB’s put on green and white the “hate” goes out the window and I then hope for the best because he’s on my team.

We'll see how you react.

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Even though I wouldn’t be pissed with Mayfield, I’d still prefer Allen.

After giving up multiple picks, go big or go home.

All of these guys are gambles 

And I’m gambling on potentially the next Big Ben over potentially the next Jeff Garcia anyday.

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3 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

Mark my words if we pick Allen the Allen haters will go ballistic and carry on for months. If we pick any of the other 3 the Allen fans will support it and move on as Jet fans. That's just a different mind set.

I certainly understand the concerns about an inaccurate QB but if we draft Allen then he's the guy I'll root for.  No negativity right now.  Just glad we finally are going for the QB.  It's painful thinking about how long overdue this move was.  We had Geno, Fitzpatrick, Fitzpatrick, McCown the past 4 years.  That is atrocious!

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https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-cmp-pct-player-career.html

For all you idiots crying about completion %. Tim Tebow is at #37 on the list for all time, completion %. Russell Wilson is at #234, Rosen at #236. Guess Tebow is a better qb then Wilson and Josh Rosen.

Edit: Can't forget everyone's favorite qb Geno at #22. How's he doing?

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Just now, Untouchable said:

Even though I wouldn’t be pissed with Mayfield, I’d still prefer Allen.

After giving up multiple picks, go big or go home.

All of these guys are gambles 

And I’m gambling on potentially the next Big Ben over potentially the next Jeff Garcia anyday.

Fun fact: Roethlisberger had a 65.5% completion rate in college including 69% in his third year as a starter.

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1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

Don’t worry about me. Worry about yourself.

Child like response as per another poster. Time will tell.

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4 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Most of this stuff is provably false. For instance: 

  • Josh Rosen's father is NOT a brain surgeon - he's a spinal surgeon. 
  • He's had multiple concussions, which is true - he's had two. I can't think of any QB sho has ever chosen to retire early due to concussions, so if he does so it will be a first.
  • Not being coachable? He's not Ryan Leaf. Mike McCarthy hates Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers hates Mike McCarthy - who cares? I've watched Tom Brady scream at Bill O'brien and Josh Mccdaniels and have watched both of them scream at Tom Brady. Again, who cares?
  • His attitude won't play well in New York? He's too political? He's a smart, liberal, rich, elitist, smug piece of sh*t. This makes him the PERFECT fit for NYC.
  • The "mixed" reports of arm strength concerns come from one scouting report on NFL.com (that I know of) and reads like the person wrote it without ever watching him play. His arm is plenty good and is better than most NFL arms.

If Josh Rosen isn't on your first round board, then you shouldn't have a draft board.

LOL!

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1 minute ago, SenorGato said:

Fun fact: Roethlisberger had a 65.5% completion rate in college including 69% in his third year as a starter.

That's impressive.

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4 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Most of this stuff is provably false. For instance: 

  • Josh Rosen's father is NOT a brain surgeon - he's a spinal surgeon. 
  • He's had multiple concussions, which is true - he's had two. I can't think of any QB sho has ever chosen to retire early due to concussions, so if he does so it will be a first.
  • Not being coachable? He's not Ryan Leaf. Mike McCarthy hates Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers hates Mike McCarthy - who cares? I've watched Tom Brady scream at Bill O'brien and Josh Mccdaniels and have watched both of them scream at Tom Brady. Again, who cares?
  • His attitude won't play well in New York? He's too political? He's a smart, liberal, rich, elitist, smug piece of sh*t. This makes him the PERFECT fit for NYC.
  • The "mixed" reports of arm strength concerns come from one scouting report on NFL.com (that I know of) and reads like the person wrote it without ever watching him play. His arm is plenty good and is better than most NFL arms.

If Josh Rosen isn't on your first round board, then you shouldn't have a draft board.

Steve Young retired because of concussions, but that is not a reason not to draft Rosen

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Just now, artemusclyde said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-cmp-pct-player-career.html

For all you idiots crying about completion %. Tim Tebow is at #37 on the list for all time, completion %. Russell Wilson is at #234, Rosen at #236. Guess Tebow is a better qb then Wilson and Josh Rosen.

Idiots? Is that really necessary. Yet I’m the one being called childish? Lmaooooooo.

bro. stfu. the argument wasn’t only completion percentage. You are driving the narrative that suits the strengths of your argument best.

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Just now, artemusclyde said:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/pass-cmp-pct-player-career.html

For all you idiots crying about completion %. Tim Tebow is at #37 on the list for all time, completion %. Russell Wilson is at #234, Rosen at #236. Guess Tebow is a better qb then Wilson and Josh Rosen.

Lol no, that's not even a little bit how it works. 

OTOH, why was Wilson able to complete 72% of his passes at Wisconsin and Allen only 56 and change? They were both in the vaunted Pro Style Offense there sooooo...

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1 minute ago, Thai Jet said:

Child like response as per another poster. Time will tell.

Is it really or am I just asking you not to worry about how I feel or anticipate my reaction a whole 6 weeks from now? Because that would actually be the childish thing to do if we just want to go on about being childish.

what, so you can say “HAHA I TULDD YA SO”?

yeah. Childish.

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Just now, SenorGato said:

Lol no, that's not even a little bit how it works. 

OTOH, why was Wilson able to complete 72% of his passes at Wisconsin and Allen only 56 and change? They were both in the vaunted Pro Style Offense there sooooo...

And why was Brett Favre only able to complete 52%. I mean he sucks right? Why wasn't Wilson able to best Tebow on that list, I mean since completion % is the end all be all right? As for Wilson, simple, Wisconsin was better and Josh Allen is inconsistent. You'd know that if you actually watched him play though. You watched those analysis' of Allen yet or are we still box scouting him?

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I agree that Rosen is the pick if he's there. But, in my opinion, the fates owe us. Whoever the Jets pick will become a long time starter and top 10 QB in the league. 

Also, despite the Jets terrible history of making poor first round selections, every single QB they've ever drafted in the first round has brought the team to the playoffs .... Namath, Todd, O'Brien, Pennington, and Sanchez (say what you want about Sanchez but he QB'd the team to 4 playoff road wins and one of the greatest playoff upsets in NFL history).

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9 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Fun fact: Roethlisberger had a 65.5% completion rate in college including 69% in his third year as a starter.

Fun facts:  

20 of 35 = 57%

22 of 35 = 63%

24 of 35 = 69%

Importance of accuracy is accurate ball placement, not completion percentage, which is effected by talent of WRs, scores of games, defenses played.  

Im not looking to draft Allen, he's my 3rd choice though.  And won't be so arrogant to think there is no reason behind picking Mayfield if he is the pick with Allen still available.  This insistence that one is clearly better than the other and the choice isn't there is comical. 

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4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Idiots? Is that really necessary. Yet I’m the one being called childish? Lmaooooooo.

bro. stfu. the argument wasn’t only completion percentage. You are driving the narrative that suits the strengths of your argument best.

The argument has entirely been his qb completion % and other false statements like he doesn't have touch. Might want to reread the thread.

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4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Steve Young retired because of concussions, but that is not a reason not to draft Rosen

It’s chronic in some cases and in some cases it’s not. What are you gonna do? Be scared and not pick him if he is the top QB on your board...IF he is the top QB on your board.

if not whatever. I’m just saying.

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8 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Most of this stuff is provably false. For instance: 

  • Josh Rosen's father is NOT a brain surgeon - he's a spinal surgeon. 
  • He's had multiple concussions, which is true - he's had two. I can't think of any QB sho has ever chosen to retire early due to concussions, so if he does so it will be a first.
  • Not being coachable? He's not Ryan Leaf. Mike McCarthy hates Aaron Rodgers, and Aaron Rodgers hates Mike McCarthy - who cares? I've watched Tom Brady scream at Bill O'brien and Josh Mccdaniels and have watched both of them scream at Tom Brady. Again, who cares?
  • His attitude won't play well in New York? He's too political? He's a smart, liberal, rich, elitist, smug piece of sh*t. This makes him the PERFECT fit for NYC.
  • The "mixed" reports of arm strength concerns come from one scouting report on NFL.com (that I know of) and reads like the person wrote it without ever watching him play. His arm is plenty good and is better than most NFL arms.

If Josh Rosen isn't on your first round board, then you shouldn't have a draft board.

None of it is false - except for is father being a spinal surgeon as opposed to a neurologist. (my mistake)

Other than that it's all opinion and to what extreme is accurate or false.

To me, any of these on their own are no big deal - or even a couple of them...but with this kid there just seems to be a lot of red flags.  That's all I'm saying. 

The concussions being my primary concern.

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6 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Steve Young retired because of concussions, but that is not a reason not to draft Rosen

So did Troy Aikman and others.  

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2 minutes ago, artemusclyde said:

The argument has entirely been his qb completion % and other false statements like he doesn't have touch. Might want to reread the thread.

Nah that’s you that might want to reread, big dog. Because I clearly went on about his decision making ability, his footwork and his field vision for the last 7 pages. 

You are on one, today.

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1 hour ago, C Mart said:

This was good. Thanks for posting. 

Just for the hell of it wonder what Greg's thoughts were regarding the top QBs prospects the past few yrs i.e. Goff, Wentz, Hack, Watson, Trubisky, Mahomes. Winston, Mariota

He thought last year's QB class was weak and didn't have any of the QB's ranked as "can't miss". He was adamant that Trubinsky should have stayed another year in school. In the 2016 draft he had Goff rated as a can't miss prospect and stated that Wentz was the most NFL ready college QB since Luck. He did not like Winston or Mariota. I follow him since he has a good track record of evaluating QB's, not perfect but who is.

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11 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Fun fact: Roethlisberger had a 65.5% completion rate in college including 69% in his third year as a starter.

Yes, I know this.

We all know about Allen’s accuracy issues. Yes, we know...

Still doesn’t change the fact that his upside is out of this world. People can bring up all of the lazy ass Hack comparisons that they want. Bottom line is the Jets reached on basically an already ruined Hackenberg in the 2nd round and Allen is pretty much universally considered a legit Top 5 pick in the best QB class in years. Hell, tons of people out there wouldn’t even fault Cleveland if they took him at #1.

Being thrilled with a 6’0 215 QB who has maturity issues and hails from a backyard, barebones system on one of the most talented offenses in the country but being pissed with a 6’5 240 QB with a rocket arm, 4.7 speed and 3 years of experience in a pro-style offense with dogsh*t surrounding him just doesn’t click with me.

At the end of the day, I’ll gladly take any of the Top 4. But I would absolutely prefer Allen if both Darnold and Rosen are off the board.

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4 minutes ago, artemusclyde said:

And why was Brett Favre only able to complete 52%. 

You really need to stop pretending this is a thing because it's not. Nobody cares about using college football stats in the 80's to find a quarterback in 2018.

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