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Loving Josh Rosen (merged)


Grandy

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8 minutes ago, RSJ said:

I highly doubt the Giants pick a QB. They have so many holes and just signed a 30 year old LT. Seems to me they will try to build for one more run with Eli and see if that kid they picked last year develops.

A lot of Giants fans hold that view and some of the talking heads predict exactly that.  But it seems that the majority of Big Blue fans and talking heads think they are all-in on this rare opportunity to find their starting QB for the next decade after Eli's final season (2018) with the Giants.  I side with the latter.  I think there is no way that Gettleman blows this opportunity.  It's the future of the franchise.  Eli is not.

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17 minutes ago, Dcat said:

he's not getting past the NY Giants.  

I don't expect Gettleman to take a guy with some personality concerns. I also don't expect him to take the most pro-ready guy available if he still wants a few years of Eli, Allen or Barkley makes the most sense by far. I also hear good things about Webb from Giants fans.

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Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Why? Eli is a million years old and you have to go back to Ron Dayne and Jeremy Shockey to find them taking a non-premium position in the top half of the first round.

I didn't say it was the right decision, but it's going to be the decision they make.  Read the Giants media articles on the behind-the-scenes Giants stuff.  Mara, Gettlemen, etc. are genuflecting to Eli and want to make the most of his 2-3 yrs of viability. Plus, reports are they really like Webb.  It all points to Barkley.

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1 minute ago, Dcat said:

A lot of Giants fans hold that view and some of the talking heads predict exactly that.  But it seems that the majority of Big Blue fans and talking heads think they are all-in on this rare opportunity to find their starting QB for the next decade after Eli's final season (2018) with the Giants.  I side with the latter.  I think there is no way that Gettleman blows this opportunity.  It's the future of the franchise.  Eli is not.

It seems like it's pretty much that simple. But this time of year you can't tell Jets fans that there's a difference between what we hope will happen and what we think is likely to happen.

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6 minutes ago, SMC said:

Jets didn't trade up for Mayfield.

They're obviously taking their chance to get either Darnold, Rosen or Allen.  It looks like a lock Giants take Barkley so Jets will have a choice of any of those 2.

 

We don't know that they didn't trade up for Mayfield. If they believe his is their guy then you make the trade to put yourself in the best position to get him. It's not a lock that he would be there for them to take at 6.

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Just now, SMC said:

I didn't say it was the right decision, but it's going to be the decision they make.  Read the Giants media articles on the behind-the-scenes Giants stuff.  Mara, Gettlemen, etc. are genuflecting to Eli and want to make the most of his 2-3 yrs of viability. Plus, reports are they really like Webb.  It all points to Barkley.

That's not 'it all.' That's what you're not choosing to ignore. To wit: old, declining quarterback and rare opportunity to acquire his replacement.

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9 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Agreed. He also has a tendency at times for holding onto the ball to long. But he led the nation in passer rating when blitzed at 139.9. He has the arm to make all the throws and has shown an ability to be a playmaker at the position. Was an accurate deep ball thrower. Had the highest grade in the nation throwing from both a clean pocket and pressured pocket. I just think he's the real deal but I understand the concerns. 

I could understand taking Darnold or Rosen over him. But I can't understand Allen. He's a guy with all the tools but the production is not there. That's to big of a red flag for me mainly because of his accuracy issues. 

I would also take my chances with Mayfield over Allen.  

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Just now, ScarletKnight89 said:

 

We don't know that they didn't trade up for Mayfield. If they believe his is their guy then you make the trade to put yourself in the best position to get him. It's not a lock that he would be there for them to take at 6.

Again, the day after Macc sees Rosen in person he trades up to 3.  Mayfield is a far inferior prospect than Rosen/Darnold.  The evidence to what Macc wants to do is all there.

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1 minute ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

That's not 'it all.' That's what you're not choosing to ignore. To wit: old, declining quarterback and rare opportunity to acquire his replacement.

I.AM.NOT.JUSTIFYING.IT.

I'd take a QB at 2.  But if you read the articles on the Giants thinking, it's going to be Barkley.  Fight with the Giant beat writers, not me.

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1 minute ago, SMC said:

Again, the day after Macc sees Rosen in person he trades up to 3.  Mayfield is a far inferior prospect than Rosen/Darnold.  The evidence to what Macc wants to do is all there.

If they traded up to 2 i would agree.  But the math says the jets may not get Rosen or darnold.  

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1 minute ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Yes. Trading to 3 for one specific guy out of blind dumb hope is certainly a thing we could do. He might also be off the board altogether.

It's 2 of the 3 out of Darnold, Rosen and Allen.  Read my post in context.  Macc has seen Allen, Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield in person.  Mayfield is not going top 3.  Macc wants a chance at the top 3 QBs so he moves up.

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4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Nope.  I do not believe so.  

I don't think so either.  The fact they signed solder isn't just for Eli.  And gettlemen knows that the eagles and cowboys have better rosters than the giants, and far younger qbs.  The giants are not built to win right now.  They're not going to be favored to come in even 2nd in their division.  The giants are going to take Rosen.  The question is, who are the browns taking?

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16 minutes ago, Drums said:

I don't feel they're a threat to take a QB. I think they'd be foolish not to improve one of their other holes. OG or RB would be the way I'd go if I was them. They can find value in the 2nd/3rd at QB and let Webb and Falk or whoever battle it out over the next few years.

If I was the Giants I'd call Denver and see if I could trade back to 5. They could load up on picks and still pick either the QB that falls or Nelson since OL is still a huge need.

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1 minute ago, SMC said:

It's 2 of the 3 out of Darnold, Rosen and Allen.  Read my post in context.  Macc has seen Allen, Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield in person.  Mayfield is not going top 3.  Macc wants a chance at the top 3 QBs so he moves up.

Allen would not see the field this year and i don't see why he would trade up for that.  It would be like hackenberg all over again except you gave up a 1 and 3 2nd rounders to draft that.  It is not allen, i would legitimately be shocked if it were for him.

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1 minute ago, SMC said:

It's 2 of the 3 out of Darnold, Rosen and Allen.  Read my post in context.  Macc has seen Allen, Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield in person.  Mayfield is not going top 3.  Macc wants a chance at the top 3 QBs so he moves up.

Allen is ******* terrible. We're counting on a running back going top 2 and probably also fading the politics.

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9 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

That's not 'it all.' That's what you're not choosing to ignore. To wit: old, declining quarterback and rare opportunity to acquire his replacement.

Or.. If you don't covet the QB fleece the Bills who just saw a division rival jump into the spot they were coveting. Our best hope is some "old school" and innumerate front office goes for the big arm early

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1 hour ago, Grandy said:

Let us accept our Josh Rosen overlords, for he will be a Jet.

Macc decided to make this move after seeing both him and Mayfield in person.

Rosen is the best fit for our system out of all the guys.

With Rosen being the most pro-ready guy, it helps solve Bowles issue with not wanting to deal with underdeveloped rookies.

Josh Rosen is our guy, and the answer we've been waiting for.

 

IF he's still there at 3.

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everyone is assuming Mac saw something at Mayfield and Rosen pro day that he HAD TO HAVE 

 

but what if he saw something he absolutely couldn't have 

Jets general manager Mike Maccagnan attended Mayfield’s pro day on Wednesday at Oklahoma and was witness to Rosen’s workout at UCLA the next day. So maybe Mccagnan has seen something he needs - or seen something in the third or fourth choice among the QB’s that he doesn’t want to be saddled with now.

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports/columnists/steve-popper/2018/03/17/popper-jets-make-bold-move-now-they-need-make-right-one/434963002/

 

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9 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Allen is ******* terrible. 

the league is way higher on this player than the internet is 

and why not ?

he's bigger, stronger, faster, cleaner (injuries) than both Mayfield and Rosen. 

it's probbaly going to go Darnold/Allen (or vice versa) Jets picking between Mayfield and Rosen. 

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3 minutes ago, SMC said:

Macc just went to the Rosen pro day and then trades up to 3 the next day.  Clearly that's who Macc thinks will be there at 3.

not necessarily.  Your using the timing correlation as evidence of causality.  That's always a dangerous way to reason and is often incorrect.  One should never rely on mere correlation in an attempt to demonstrate causality.  Per Breer, whom I trust, Mac has been planning and preparing for this move up with Indi since the Combine in the event he lost out on the bidding for Cousins.  This was in the works waaaay before the Rosen pro day.  

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23 minutes ago, SMC said:

Jets didn't trade up for Mayfield.

They're obviously taking their chance to get either Darnold, Rosen or Allen.  It looks like a lock Giants take Barkley so Jets will have a choice of any of those 2.

Not convinced the gints are taking Saquon.  Feels like the Reggie Bush situation all over again.  And Reggie had a good career, but not to justify the position he was taken in.  Think they are taking a QB, and I think Allen will be off the board with one of those first two spots, either to the Browns at 1 (I think Dorsey might prefer him); to the Gints to develop behind Eli at 2, to the Broncos who trade up, or to the Bills who trade up.

I really do believe it will be Rosen or Mayfield, and my lean is Rosen.  Even if Saquon is there, you don't move up for a RB who is not a bonafide workhorse.  And you don't taking a freaking guard at 3.  My gut is Rosen is a Jet.  If perchance Darnold and Rosen are both looking at the Jets at 3 (which is possible if the Browns or Gints take Saquon and Allen), that will be unbelievable.  I still think he goes Rosen over Darnold.  Rosen's got the moxie (some people think it's arrogance) for the New York market.  Only thing that worries me is the concussion history.  Don't think Darnold wants any piece of NY.  

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28 minutes ago, SMC said:

I.AM.NOT.JUSTIFYING.IT.

I'd take a QB at 2.  But if you read the articles on the Giants thinking, it's going to be Barkley.  Fight with the Giant beat writers, not me.

Giants are taking a QB.  Beat writers are wrong on this one and several beat writers are saying QB.  Stop using the correlation between the timing of Macs visit and the trade up.  It's really poor reasoning and they have been negotiating this very same trade up since the Combine, per Breer. It was all a matter of who was going to land Cousins before the Colts and Jets finalized the deal.  So your use of the correlation in timing is way, way off.  It doesn't prove what you claim it does.  Not even close. 

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19 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I don't think so either.  The fact they signed solder isn't just for Eli.  And gettlemen knows that the eagles and cowboys have better rosters than the giants, and far younger qbs.  The giants are not built to win right now.  They're not going to be favored to come in even 2nd in their division.  The giants are going to take Rosen.  The question is, who are the browns taking?

exactly.  I concur.

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23 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

If they traded up to 2 i would agree.  But the math says the jets may not get Rosen or darnold.  

By trading to #3, Mac is avoiding the risk of all 4 of the top QB prospects being gone by pick #5.  It was a risk that he and the Jets could just not afford to take.  I'm sure Mac has the 4 of them ranked on his board.  But there was no way the Jets could risk that all 4 would be off the board before their turn to pick.  (Thanks to Bowles not playing Petty and/or Hack until McCown became an invalid.)

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32 minutes ago, Il Mostro said:

My thoughts are the same.   Eli is at the end of the road and being in the #2 overall position is a gift the Giants are unlikely to see again in the near future.  They would have to be out of their minds to not take one of the two highest rated QB's. So, the Jets will wind up with one of two guys with different types of warts, hoping for the best.

Yeah I can't see them passing up a rare opportunity to draft another FQB in the top 2 picks. They know how unusual it is to end up in this draft slot, never mind in this draft slot when there's an obvious QB to select there. Next time they could end up #2 it could be a 2013-like draft, or the next time there are a couple QBs it could be like 2015 where there are 2 prospects and then nobody, making a trade-up effectively impossible.Their strategy should clearly be:

1. Draft Rosen (or whoever's the top QB there)

2. Trade Eli to a team that wasn't able to trade up for one of the top 3-4 prospects. He still has plenty of trade value, especially with what's a low starter salary by today's standards. Draft the top OLmen available with that pick, which should be a 2nd rounder at the very lowest (considering Taylor went for the top pick in round 3).

A team coming off a 2-win season (with an older QB now another year closer to retirement) doesn't add 1 player, 1 high rookie prospect, a returning OBJ, and then magically become a realistic SB contender.

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1 minute ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I can't see them passing up a rare opportunity to draft another FQB in the top 2 picks. They know how unusual it is to end up in this draft slot, never mind in this draft slot when there's an obvious QB to select there. Next time they could end up #2 it could be a 2013-like draft, or the next time there are a couple QBs it could be like 2015 where there are 2 prospects and then nobody, making a trade-up effectively impossible.Their strategy should clearly be:

1. Draft Rosen (or whoever's the top QB there)

2. Trade Eli to a team that wasn't able to trade up for one of the top 3-4 prospects. He still has plenty of trade value, especially with what's a low starter salary by today's standards. Draft the top OLmen available with that pick, which should be a 2nd rounder at the very lowest (considering Taylor went for the top pick in round 3).

A team coming off a 2-win season (with an older QB now another year closer to retirement) doesn't add 1 player, 1 high rookie prospect, a returning OBJ, and then magically become a realistic SB contender.

I actually think Rosen going to the giants is more of a lock than darnold going to the browns.  Cleveland could opt for allen and sit him, i could see that happening more than the jets doing this.  So Cleveland seems locked into darnold or allen, while i can't see the giants not taking Rosen unless the bills go nuts and offer the giants a few #1s.  But absent that, the jets would be looking at mayfield at 3 in every scenario, and either allen or darnold as the 2nd qb.  But it seems laughable that the giants would take barkley at 2 when they're not close to winning that division.

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43 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

If darnold and Rosen are gone by 3, did we really trade 3 premium picks for josh Allen ? I would have rather had baker at 6. 

   Or does Mac take Barkley if darnold and Rosen go 1&2?

How does Mayfield make it to six? There are absolutely no guarantees that that would happen. Colts trade out, Cleveland trades out. Bye bye top four. Or Colts trade out and Denver takes QB. Mayfield is gone. Or Giants trade out and Colts trade out... Mayfield gone. People here would have a kitten if any of those scenarios happened and we were left with no QB at six. Mac HAD TO trade up.

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5 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I actually think Rosen going to the giants is more of a lock than darnold going to the browns.  Cleveland could opt for allen and sit him, i could see that happening more than the jets doing this.  So Cleveland seems locked into darnold or allen, while i can't see the giants not taking Rosen unless the bills go nuts and offer the giants a few #1s.  But absent that, the jets would be looking at mayfield at 3 in every scenario, and either allen or darnold as the 2nd qb.  But it seems laughable that the giants would take barkley at 2 when they're not close to winning that division.

What's the most laughable is the idea that the Giants, with an aging QB and coming off a 2-win season, would take a guard at #2 with Rosen on the board.

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4 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

How does Mayfield make it to six? There are absolutely no guarantees that that would happen. Colts trade out, Cleveland trades out. Bye bye top four. Or Colts trade out and Denver takes QB. Mayfield is gone. Or Giants trade out and Colts trade out... Mayfield gone. People here would have a kitten if any of those scenarios happened and we were left with no QB at six. Mac HAD TO trade up.

So it would have been Barkley or Chubb falling to 6 then ? That would have been ok by me. Colts wanted Chubb. Instead of grabbing him at 3, they can get him at 6 while gaining 3 high 2nd round picks

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13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I can't see them passing up a rare opportunity to draft another FQB in the top 2 picks. They know how unusual it is to end up in this draft slot, never mind in this draft slot when there's an obvious QB to select there. Next time they could end up #2 it could be a 2013-like draft, or the next time there are a couple QBs it could be like 2015 where there are 2 prospects and then nobody, making a trade-up effectively impossible.Their strategy should clearly be:

1. Draft Rosen (or whoever's the top QB there)

2. Trade Eli to a team that wasn't able to trade up for one of the top 3-4 prospects. He still has plenty of trade value, especially with what's a low starter salary by today's standards. Draft the top OLmen available with that pick, which should be a 2nd rounder at the very lowest (considering Taylor went for the top pick in round 3).

A team coming off a 2-win season (with an older QB now another year closer to retirement) doesn't add 1 player, 1 high rookie prospect, a returning OBJ, and then magically become a realistic SB contender.

Another option would be to trade the #2 pick to Buffalo for a king's ransom. 

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