Landry Jones vs Baker Mayfield

[JoJoTownsell1]

Playing same system, in same college against similar opponents- 

LandryJones Sophomore year- 65% comp rate- 4700 yards

Baker Mayfield Senior year 70% comp rate 4600 yards.....98% Moxie rate

I'm not anti Mayfield but you guys that are suggesting that Mayfield is far and away a better prospect than Allen simply have Hackaphobia.

If you want to tell me you love Rosen or Darnold over Allen I get it... So do I. But if you watch Mayfield play, and I'm not talking about highlights, you see a ton of quick passes at the line of scrimmage on bubble screens and very little NFL style passes. Very few passes, from the pocket, that resemble what a guy like Bates will want to run.

I just don't see the Jets trading up to get a gimmicky QB with a sightly above average arm, undersized with possible attitude issues.

I also didn't see them paying this much to move up so what do I know....

[FidelioJet]

4 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Playing same system, in same college against similar opponents- 

LandryJones Sophomore year- 65% comp rate- 4700 yards

Baker Mayfield Senior year 70% comp rate 4600 yards.....98% Moxie rate

I'm not anti Mayfield but you guys that are suggesting that Mayfield is far and away a better prospect than Allen simply have Hackaphobia.

If you want to tell me you love Rosen or Darnold over Allen I get it... So do I. But if you watch Mayfield play, and I'm not talking about highlights, you see a ton of quick passes at the line of scrimmage on bubble screens and very little NFL style passes. Very few passes, from the pocket, that resemble what a guy like Bates will want to run.

I just don't see the Jets trading up to get a gimmicky QB with a sightly above average arm, undersized with possible attitude issues.

I also didn't see them paying this much to move up so what do I know....

He's not a Gimmickie QB - he has every skill-set other than being 2-3 inches shorter than prototypical.  He makes plenty of down the field throws from the pocket.  Can definitately work on his footwork but he checks every other box other than height.

• exceptionial accuracy - in the pocket and on the move
• always keeps his eyes down field
• scans the field - is not a first read QB
• doesn't get passes batted down at the LOS
• His arm has proven to be as strong as anyone's not named Allen 
• very, very quick release
• leadership qualities
• Wins

The Jets traded up with him or Allen being one of their guys.  I certainly hope that guy is Mayfield over Allen.

[RSJ]

I would be absolutely shocked if the Jets or any other team in the top 10 picked Mayfield.


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[FidelioJet]

23 minutes ago, RSJ said:

I would be absolutely shocked if the Jets or any other team in the top 10 picked Mayfield.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

My guess - he's gone no later than 5.

[HawkeyeJet]

It's not the same system.  But hey, other than that.

[nycdan]

29 minutes ago, RSJ said:

I would be absolutely shocked if the Jets or any other team in the top 10 picked Mayfield.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

A team out of the top 10 might take him but they will likely move up into the top 10 to do it.  Think BUF will wait until the 12-hole to draft him knowing Miami might snipe him one pick earlier, or ARI who is just as needy might move up into the 6-10 range?  CIN is another possible player.  With 5 straight picks (6-10) from teams that don't need a QB in a row, someone will make that move.

[Lupz27]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Playing same system, in same college against similar opponents- 

LandryJones Sophomore year- 65% comp rate- 4700 yards

Baker Mayfield Senior year 70% comp rate 4600 yards.....98% Moxie rate

I'm not anti Mayfield but you guys that are suggesting that Mayfield is far and away a better prospect than Allen simply have Hackaphobia.

If you want to tell me you love Rosen or Darnold over Allen I get it... So do I. But if you watch Mayfield play, and I'm not talking about highlights, you see a ton of quick passes at the line of scrimmage on bubble screens and very little NFL style passes. Very few passes, from the pocket, that resemble what a guy like Bates will want to run.

I just don't see the Jets trading up to get a gimmicky QB with a sightly above average arm, undersized with possible attitude issues.

I also didn't see them paying this much to move up so what do I know....

Preach 

[BCJet]

I posted this in a separate thread, but I think the comparison of Mayfield and Jones is extremely poor

There have been a lot of discussions about Mayfield's offense at Oklahoma and Ive also read about his "frantic feet" in the pocket.  So I watched a few cutups on www.Draftbreakdown.com and if anyone wants to see why that argument doesnt hold up, watch the below for a few mins.

http://archive.draftbreakdown.com/video/landry-jones-vs-texas-am-2012-bowl/ 

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/11/05/baker-mayfield-vs-ohio-state-2017/ 

Mayfield's feet move a ton, but watch his head, which you can see is constantly moving, scanning the entire field.  Its something Peyton Manning (albeit it in a more refined way) always did- constantly hopping so that he could quickly reset and get the ball out accurately to a second or third read.  

Then watch Landry Jones, someone who Ive seen compared to Baker.  His head literally never moves.  In the first 3 mins of the video link above, he moves his head on one single play, when he had a perfectly clean pocket (about 2:40ish in the red zone).  Other then that he looks at one guy and throws.

Thats why in my opinion Mayfield and Darnold have a good chance to be very good.  We read about spread offenses, arm strength, etc but the most important thing in the NFL is field vision followed by accuracy. You have to be able to keep you eyes downfield and accurately hit your 2-4th option and those guys do it all the time.  To me it seems pretty clear that it wasn't just the Big 12 or the Oklahoma offense that made Mayfield good.

 

[Lupz27]

Just now, BCJet said:

I posted this in a separate thread, but I think the comparison of Mayfield and Jones is extremely poor

There have been a lot of discussions about Mayfield's offense at Oklahoma and Ive also read about his "frantic feet" in the pocket.  So I watched a few cutups on www.Draftbreakdown.com and if anyone wants to see why that argument doesnt hold up, watch the below for a few mins.

http://archive.draftbreakdown.com/video/landry-jones-vs-texas-am-2012-bowl/ 

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/11/05/baker-mayfield-vs-ohio-state-2017/ 

Mayfield's feet move a ton, but watch his head, which you can see is constantly moving, scanning the entire field.  Its something Peyton Manning (albeit it in a more refined way) always did- constantly hopping so that he could quickly reset and get the ball out accurately to a second or third read.  

Then watch Landry Jones, someone who Ive seen compared to Baker.  His head literally never moves.  In the first 3 mins of the video link above, he moves his head on one single play, when he had a perfectly clean pocket (about 2:40ish in the red zone).  Other then that he looks at one guy and throws.

Thats why in my opinion Mayfield and Darnold have a good chance to be very good.  We read about spread offenses, arm strength, etc but the most important thing in the NFL is field vision followed by accuracy. You have to be able to keep you eyes downfield and accurately hit your 2-4th option and those guys do it all the time.  To me it seems pretty clear that it wasn't just the Big 12 or the Oklahoma offense that made Mayfield good.

 

The most important thing in the NFL is the ability to throw outside the numbers FROM THE POCKET, IMO Mayfield will not be able to do this at the NFL level.

[Mackman55]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Playing same system, in same college against similar opponents- 

LandryJones Sophomore year- 65% comp rate- 4700 yards

Baker Mayfield Senior year 70% comp rate 4600 yards.....98% Moxie rate

I'm not anti Mayfield but you guys that are suggesting that Mayfield is far and away a better prospect than Allen simply have Hackaphobia.

If you want to tell me you love Rosen or Darnold over Allen I get it... So do I. But if you watch Mayfield play, and I'm not talking about highlights, you see a ton of quick passes at the line of scrimmage on bubble screens and very little NFL style passes. Very few passes, from the pocket, that resemble what a guy like Bates will want to run.

I just don't see the Jets trading up to get a gimmicky QB with a sightly above average arm, undersized with possible attitude issues.

I also didn't see them paying this much to move up so what do I know....

This is so not true I don't know where to start. If you don't like him fine but at least be accurate with your facts.

[BCJet]

Just now, Lupz27 said:

The most important thing in the NFL is the ability to throw outside the numbers FROM THE POCKET, IMO Mayfield will not be able to do this at the NFL level.

Why, because he is short?  A lot of being able to stretch the field horizontally (which I agree is important) is anticipation and accuracy, its not just a matter of having a rocket arm.  Mayfield hasn't struggled making any of the requisite throws and has enough arm strength to play at a high level.  I dont see it as a problem for him

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, BCJet said:

I posted this in a separate thread, but I think the comparison of Mayfield and Jones is extremely poor

There have been a lot of discussions about Mayfield's offense at Oklahoma and Ive also read about his "frantic feet" in the pocket.  So I watched a few cutups on www.Draftbreakdown.com and if anyone wants to see why that argument doesnt hold up, watch the below for a few mins.

http://archive.draftbreakdown.com/video/landry-jones-vs-texas-am-2012-bowl/ 

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/11/05/baker-mayfield-vs-ohio-state-2017/ 

Mayfield's feet move a ton, but watch his head, which you can see is constantly moving, scanning the entire field.  Its something Peyton Manning (albeit it in a more refined way) always did- constantly hopping so that he could quickly reset and get the ball out accurately to a second or third read.  

Then watch Landry Jones, someone who Ive seen compared to Baker.  His head literally never moves.  In the first 3 mins of the video link above, he moves his head on one single play, when he had a perfectly clean pocket (about 2:40ish in the red zone).  Other then that he looks at one guy and throws.

Thats why in my opinion Mayfield and Darnold have a good chance to be very good.  We read about spread offenses, arm strength, etc but the most important thing in the NFL is field vision followed by accuracy. You have to be able to keep you eyes downfield and accurately hit your 2-4th option and those guys do it all the time.  To me it seems pretty clear that it wasn't just the Big 12 or the Oklahoma offense that made Mayfield good.

 

Agreed but in these spread/ air raid offenses the QBs tend to put up gawdy numbers and have inflated completion percentages especially when surrounded by elite offensive talent. 

Mayfield is a far better QB prospect than Jones, but I just don't see the justification for people to fall in love with Mayfield as a prospect. He has flaws and his great stats COULD just be product of a great system.

Doesa anyonethink Mayfield would be a top 6 pick if he had ended up at Wyoming?

[Lupz27]

4 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Why, because he is short?  A lot of being able to stretch the field horizontally (which I agree is important) is anticipation and accuracy, its not just a matter of having a rocket arm.  Mayfield hasn't struggled making any of the requisite throws and has enough arm strength to play at a high level.  I dont see it as a problem for him

No because I watched him play football.

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I posted this in a separate thread, but I think the comparison of Mayfield and Jones is extremely poor

There have been a lot of discussions about Mayfield's offense at Oklahoma and Ive also read about his "frantic feet" in the pocket.  So I watched a few cutups on www.Draftbreakdown.com and if anyone wants to see why that argument doesnt hold up, watch the below for a few mins.

http://archive.draftbreakdown.com/video/landry-jones-vs-texas-am-2012-bowl/ 

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/11/05/baker-mayfield-vs-ohio-state-2017/ 

Mayfield's feet move a ton, but watch his head, which you can see is constantly moving, scanning the entire field.  Its something Peyton Manning (albeit it in a more refined way) always did- constantly hopping so that he could quickly reset and get the ball out accurately to a second or third read.  

Then watch Landry Jones, someone who Ive seen compared to Baker.  His head literally never moves.  In the first 3 mins of the video link above, he moves his head on one single play, when he had a perfectly clean pocket (about 2:40ish in the red zone).  Other then that he looks at one guy and throws.

Thats why in my opinion Mayfield and Darnold have a good chance to be very good.  We read about spread offenses, arm strength, etc but the most important thing in the NFL is field vision followed by accuracy. You have to be able to keep you eyes downfield and accurately hit your 2-4th option and those guys do it all the time.  To me it seems pretty clear that it wasn't just the Big 12 or the Oklahoma offense that made Mayfield good.

 

This is it!

The fact that most people sitll don't get this is amazing to me.  Be able to find the open receiver and get it to him accuratley.  It's what separates quality NFL QB's from college.  

After that the other factors come into play - which will determine how good you'll be - but this is the pre-requisite and if you have it you're likely to at least be a quality franchise level QB.

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

31 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

It's not the same system.  But hey, other than that.

QBs put up the same gawdy numbers in a spread/air raid. The point is the same. Both guys played in super QB friendly offenses. And Oklahoma's offense is frequently a mix of the two. 

If anything, Lincoln Riley's offense is superior which would devalue the gawdy production even more.

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

The most important thing in the NFL is the ability to throw outside the numbers FROM THE POCKET, IMO Mayfield will not be able to do this at the NFL level.

this was a concern before the combine but his arm strength appears to be top notch 

Baker Mayfield - Oklahoma - 59 (left), 60 (right)

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this was a concern before the combine but his arm strength appears to be top notch 

Baker Mayfield - Oklahoma - 59 (left), 60 (right)

http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/

Thanks for that - should put to bed all of the - he has a weak arm - arguemnts.  Stronger arm than Rosen and Jackson.

 

[faba]

Take this to the bank there will be  a run of QBs taken at the top of the draft Mayfield will be long gone before number 10 pick

[SenorGato]

Oklahoma passing under Mayfield:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff

#1 nationally

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff2016

#1 nationally

Under Jones:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff2012

#28 nationally

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff2011

#26 nationally

 

[JoJoTownsell1]

6 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Why, because he is short?  A lot of being able to stretch the field horizontally (which I agree is important) is anticipation and accuracy, its not just a matter of having a rocket arm.  Mayfield hasn't struggled making any of the requisite throws and has enough arm strength to play at a high level.  I dont see it as a problem for him

Don't watch highlights of him, watch on YouTube a video of all his passes from a random game and tell me how many of them are the type of passes you see NFL QBs make. Very few are outs, slants, fades etc..

Not saying he can't make those passes but it's speculative like Allen.

[whodeawhodat]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

He's not a Gimmickie QB - he has every skill-set other than being 2-3 inches shorter than prototypical.  He makes plenty of down the field throws from the pocket.  Can definitately work on his footwork but he checks every other box other than height.

• exceptions accuracy - in the pocket and on the move
• always keeps his eyes down field
• scans the field - is not a first read QB
• doesn't get passes batted down at the LOS
• His arm has proven to be as strong as anyone's not named Allen 
• very, very quick release
• leadership qualities
• Wins

The Jets traded up with him or Allen being one of their guys.  I certainly hope that guy is Mayfield over Allen.

This times 1000.  If you watch his games, sure he throws more short passes in that system but his throws are on point right where they are supposed to be, from the pocket or rolling out.  Would be super stoked to have him at 3, breeze 2.0 imo

[pointman]

2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Playing same system, in same college against similar opponents- 

LandryJones Sophomore year- 65% comp rate- 4700 yards

Baker Mayfield Senior year 70% comp rate 4600 yards.....98% Moxie rate

I'm not anti Mayfield but you guys that are suggesting that Mayfield is far and away a better prospect than Allen simply have Hackaphobia.

If you want to tell me you love Rosen or Darnold over Allen I get it... So do I. But if you watch Mayfield play, and I'm not talking about highlights, you see a ton of quick passes at the line of scrimmage on bubble screens and very little NFL style passes. Very few passes, from the pocket, that resemble what a guy like Bates will want to run.

I just don't see the Jets trading up to get a gimmicky QB with a sightly above average arm, undersized with possible attitude issues.

I also didn't see them paying this much to move up so what do I know....

What does your comparison have to do with Allen being better than Mayfield? If we're going by the numbers, Mayfield makes Allen look like the high school JV teams backup kicker stepping in when the backup QB goes down.

[JoJoTownsell1]

11 minutes ago, pointman said:

What does your comparison have to do with Allen being better than Mayfield? If we're going by the numbers, Mayfield makes Allen look like the high school JV teams backup kicker stepping in when the backup QB goes down.

You completely missed the point. The point was that the numbers Mayfield put up were inflated by a passer friendly offense. 

It's impossible to compare the two players based on stats. If you're going by stats, Mason Rudolph would be a better prospect than both Rosen and Darnold.

[k-met57]

re-watching the combine and allen and mayfield throwing...the difference in stature is staggering. Mayfield is smaller, hands look smaller throwing the ball, Allen looks like a beast flinging the ball down the field for 60 yards on a rope...i know there are accuracy issues....but i dont think its going be close. i think if the goal was Baker Mayfield the jets would sit at 6 and take their chances.

[pointman]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

You completely missed the point. The point was that the numbers Mayfield put up were inflated by a passer friendly offense. 

It's impossible to compare the two players based on stats. If you're going by stats, Mason Rudolph would be a better prospect than both Rosen and Darnold.

I asked you what your comparison was supposed to mean. Its a pretty long shot to compare those two, to make a comparison with Allen. And actually, Baker's stats are better than Masons too. But whatever fits every individuals agenda. 

[Obrien2Toon]

The mustache was always a turd

anyone who watched them both knows that

[nyjbuddy]

3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Playing same system, in same college against similar opponents- 

LandryJones Sophomore year- 65% comp rate- 4700 yards

Baker Mayfield Senior year 70% comp rate 4600 yards.....98% Moxie rate

I'm not anti Mayfield but you guys that are suggesting that Mayfield is far and away a better prospect than Allen simply have Hackaphobia.

If you want to tell me you love Rosen or Darnold over Allen I get it... So do I. But if you watch Mayfield play, and I'm not talking about highlights, you see a ton of quick passes at the line of scrimmage on bubble screens and very little NFL style passes. Very few passes, from the pocket, that resemble what a guy like Bates will want to run.

I just don't see the Jets trading up to get a gimmicky QB with a sightly above average arm, undersized with possible attitude issues.

I also didn't see them paying this much to move up so what do I know....

This sounds exactly like a Mike Shanahan QB, the offense Bates is supposedly implementing.  The zone-blocking, West coast offense is predicated on smaller, faster linemen that aren't expected to hold their blocks for very long.  The QB needs to be able to make quick, decisive choices; something Mayfield is great at.  Here is the completion percentages under pressure for the top 6 QBs in the draft: 

Jackson: 40.3%
Allen: 40.4%
Darnold: 47.2%
Rudolph: 48%
Rosen: 48.3%
Mayfield: 56%

Secondly,  the offense calls for shorter passes near the line of scrimmage as the lineman are expected to get down field and block.  Of the top 6 QBs in this draft, this is how they stack up with yards per attempt during their career:

Allen: 7.7
Rosen: 8
Jackson 8.5
Darnold: 8.7
Rudolph: 9.9
Mayfield: 10.6

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

My guess - he's gone no later than 5.

With the Jets now in the Top 5 I absolutely agree with this.  Denver seems to love him apparently.  I think that's where Mayfield may end up.  As for the Jets, sadly, the entire Draft hangs on what the Giants do IMO.  We really need them to take Barkley so that either Rosen or Darnold drop to the Jets.

[Philc1]

3 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Playing same system, in same college against similar opponents- 

LandryJones Sophomore year- 65% comp rate- 4700 yards

Baker Mayfield Senior year 70% comp rate 4600 yards.....98% Moxie rate

I'm not anti Mayfield but you guys that are suggesting that Mayfield is far and away a better prospect than Allen simply have Hackaphobia.

If you want to tell me you love Rosen or Darnold over Allen I get it... So do I. But if you watch Mayfield play, and I'm not talking about highlights, you see a ton of quick passes at the line of scrimmage on bubble screens and very little NFL style passes. Very few passes, from the pocket, that resemble what a guy like Bates will want to run.

I just don't see the Jets trading up to get a gimmicky QB with a sightly above average arm, undersized with possible attitude issues.

I also didn't see them paying this much to move up so what do I know....

Geno Smith, similar system and same conference 71% completion percentage 

[legler82]

3 hours ago, RSJ said:

I would be absolutely shocked if the Jets or any other team in the top 10 picked Mayfield.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I think he's headed to the Saints who will trade up as soon as he makes it pass the top 10.

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Agreed but in these spread/ air raid offenses the QBs tend to put up gawdy numbers and have inflated completion percentages especially when surrounded by elite offensive talent. 

Mayfield is a far better QB prospect than Jones, but I just don't see the justification for people to fall in love with Mayfield as a prospect. He has flaws and his great stats COULD just be product of a great system.

Doesa anyonethink Mayfield would be a top 6 pick if he had ended up at Wyoming?

Mayfield wouldn’t even get drafted by an NFL team if he played for Wyoming 

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

My guess - he's gone no later than 5.

My guess is that there's a chance he's there for the Dolphins at 11

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

My guess is that there's a chance he's there for the Dolphins at 11

As a jets fan I’d love Mayfield on the Dolphins

[Sonny Werblin]

Landry Jones!? Where's his Heisman? Was he selected with a top 10 pick? Was there ever even a discussion that he was worth a top 10 pick?

My God, what does Mayfield have to do to convince people he can play. He walked on to two separate D1 schools and beat out the scholarship starter. He beat Ohio State at their field. He reads D's. He extends plays. He completes passes under pressure. He throws players open and is accurate on a game in and game out basis.

His problems? A loud mouth? Too competitive maybe? Too short? Please. He's a star waiting to happen because his one and only focus is, and has been, to prove everyone wrong. 

Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen will all likely become pro bowl QBs. The rest of the jibronees in this draft "could" do the same, but the odds are far longer. That includes Allen. When adjusted for drops, Lamar Jackson is still a more accurate passer than Allen. Sure, Allen is accurate in shorts, but when the bullets are flying, he's not. And that's what truly matters.

[JoJoTownsell1]

2 hours ago, SenorGato said:

Oklahoma passing under Mayfield:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff

#1 nationally

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff2016

#1 nationally

Under Jones:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff2012

#28 nationally

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ncaaoff2011

#26 nationally

 

Thanks for posting those links to prove that those stats have zero relevance to future QB success. Mayfield is 1 t his year. 

You know who lead #2 passing offense according to Football outsiders in 2012, when Landry was 28? Taj Boyd and the Clemson Tigers. This past year garbage QBs like Jalen Hurts and JT Barrett lead highly ranked passing offenses. 

It's because guys like Hurts/Barrett and  yeah even Mayfield run gimmicky offenses that allow average QBs look great. 
Again, watch video of Baker Mayfield from a game. Watch all his passes and you'll see that a vast majority of his completions are not NFL style passes. 

If the Jets want to run a spread/air raid, Baker Mayfield may find a ton of success in the NFL. But he is not an ideal QB prospect which is why I just don't see the Jets trading up to get him. If they had stayed at 6 and Rosen/Allen/Darnold were taken I could have seen them taking a flier, but at 3, i just don't see them going that route.