Josh Allen

[Sonny Werblin]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

He's a better fit with cleveland and i think we'll all exhale loudly when they take him first.  They can sit him most of the year.  Cleveland's decision probably comes down to darnold vs allen.

I don't think he threw even one timing pattern in that game and it seemed like all but 3 or 4 passes we're to his primary receiver. I just don't think he possesses the innate abilities to be a successful NFL QB. Compare him to the midget that QBs North Texas.  You either have the innate skill to extend plays and find secondary receivers or you don't. Allen is not a natural QB. He has the size and the arm. He just does not have "it".

[Jimmy 2 Times]

1 minute ago, jetsons said:

"if" is a BIG word.

It is, especially when we're talking quarterbacks.  But is it unreasonable to think he can't improve that little bit?

[Jetsplayer21]

9 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'm not sharing this advocating him(I'll  be disappointed if we end up with him), but I think the Iowa game I was at is a perfect sample of everything that factors in with him.  I've included a link with all his throws.  I was at the game and came away thinking he had a long way to go, but also thinking Iowa completely dominated them physically. Iowa was a slightly above average Big Ten team this year.  I have since rewatched this clip probably 5 times. I think it offers it all.

It shows quite a few throws that are beautiful.  Shows quite a few that are cringe worthy.  It shows his great athletic ability.  It shows how bad his supporting cast is(at least 3 throwaways due to immediate pressure and 3 drops).

 

Seems like he takes a while to release. Statue back there. With the Oline always being last on the list of jet needs, that would equal a lot of sacks.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I don't think he threw even one timing pattern in that game and it seemed like all but 3 or 4 passes we're to his primary receiver. I just don't think he possesses the innate abilities to be a successful NFL QB. Compare him to the midget that QBs North Texas.  You either have the innate skill to extend plays and find secondary receivers or you don't. Allen is not a natural QB. He has the size and the arm. He just does not have "it".

I definitely don't see him in a wco type of offense. If we get lucky and cleveland falls in love with him we're guaranteed either Rosen or darnold.  If Cleveland takes darnold, we could well take mayfield, who seems like a much better fit in bates' offense.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I think this might be the case too, but I can see where Allen is the forbidden fruit kind of tempting.

I mean it's obvious why Allen is tempting. The guy is a genetic freak who has the most upside of any of them. In shorts he's the guy, clearly.

The problem is he's a bad football player.

[HawkeyeJet]

1 minute ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Seems like he takes a while to release. Statue back there. With the Oline always being last on the list of jet needs, that would equal a lot of sacks.

To each their own, and he has a lot of flaws, but I don't watch that and think "statue".

[Sonny Werblin]

I hope Bates has a lot of input. I believe he is a mind over matter type of guy (he hiked from Mexico to Canada over the Rockies or something like that). Anyway, imo, Bates would take Darnold or Rosen first, but would prefer Mayfield over Allen.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

To each their own, and he has a lot of flaws, but I don't watch that and think "statue".

He's an incredible athlete and extremely mobile. I'd argue a bigger issue is that he takes off and runs too quickly.

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I mean it's obvious why Allen is tempting. The guy is a genetic freak who has the most upside of any of them. In shorts he's the guy, clearly.

The problem is he's a bad football player.

Never draft a player in the top 10 who was not a beast in college and who "needs work" to be a pro. Top 10 is not a project selection.

[Larz]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I just ran some numbers on Allen.  

If the guy completed just one more pass per game (11) he's at 60.4 completion %.   

If he completes 1.5 more passes a game he's at 62% and the runaway number 1 pick.

Is it unreasonable to think he can't improve enough to complete one more pass a game now that it'll be football all day instead of classes?

 

Another question:  If Baker Mayfield was 6'4 is he the runaway top pick?

Allen has to prove in his private workouts and pro day that his completion numbers are not physical ability to put the ball on target, that it was dumb decisions, hero balls and just being young 

Those things are correctable. 

Missing the target is a whole different issue 

 

[dbatesman]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I hope Bates has a lot of input. I believe he is a mind over matter type of guy (he hiked from Mexico to Canada over the Rockies it something like that).

what does this mean

[Sonny Werblin]

15 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I just ran some numbers on Allen.  

If the guy completed just one more pass per game (11) he's at 60.4 completion %.   

If he completes 1.5 more passes a game he's at 62% and the runaway number 1 pick.

Is it unreasonable to think he can't improve enough to complete one more pass a game now that it'll be football all day instead of classes?

 

Another question:  If Baker Mayfield was 6'4 is he the runaway top pick?

Padded stats against conference patsies.

[jack48]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

I definitely don't see him in a wco type of offense. If we get lucky and cleveland falls in love with him we're guaranteed either Rosen or darnold.  If Cleveland takes darnold, we could well take mayfield, who seems like a much better fit in bates' offense.

The problem there is that we will have a new coach and a new OC next year

[Sonny Werblin]

Just now, dbatesman said:

what does this mean

Mayfield is mentally tougher than Allen.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, jack48 said:

The problem there is that we will have a new coach and a new OC next year

And bates may be that guy.

[jack48]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Padded stats against conference patsies.

you have to also consider that he was throwing to some stiffs too.  And that his coaches were not necessarily the best

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, jack48 said:

you have to also consider that he was throwing to some stiffs too.  And that his coaches were not necessarily the best

James Franklin fcking with his footwork and whatnot

[Sonny Werblin]

Just now, jack48 said:

you have to also consider that he was throwing to some stiffs too.  And that his coaches were not necessarily the best

Excuses should never be the basis for selecting a player in the top 10 of the draft.

[Jetsplayer21]

I hope Mac is messing with us. That he would take mayfield over Allen 

[Larz]

3 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Excuses should never be the basis for selecting a player in the top 10 of the draft.

All 4 prospects have weaknesses and faults. Tell me any of them and I can scare you off of them 

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Mayfield is mentally tougher than Allen.

Fair enough

[Persiussa]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Fun fact: no quarterback benefited more from playing in the pre-internet era than John Elway. 

 

Wow!

[UntouchableCrew]

Those Elway numbers are ugly but considering Joe Namath is our franchise cornerstone it's hard to throw stones.

[Sonny Werblin]

7 minutes ago, Larz said:

All 4 prospects have weaknesses and faults. Tell me any of them and I can scare you off of them 

But only one has the weakness of not being elite at playing QB at the college level.

My only point is that Rosen and Darnold are worthy of being selected in the top 3. Mayfield can be selected only because the Jets desperately need a QB, but he certainly is a justifiable top 10 selection. Allen, needs a lot of work, and does not naturally do things really good quarterbacks do. He's a project and not worthy of a top 10 selection.

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

can't really vote unless I know what my choices are. I think this covers most of the 2-QB combinations assuming it comes down to a 2 QB choice:

Allen vs Darnold: Darnold

Allen vs Rosen: Rosen

Allen vs Mayfield: the most likely scenario for Mac. Toughest decision of all 6.  I lean toward Mayfield.  I can't get over the how Allen struggles on short/midrange passes.  

Mayfield vs Darnold: Darnold

Mayfield vs Rosen: Rosen

Rosen vs Darnold:  least likely scenario but baby if this is the choice it would be incredible.  I lean towards Darnold but couldn't begin to defend myself if I tried.

3-way combinations are much easier:

Darnold, Mayfield, or Allen: Darnold

Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen: Darnold

Darnold, Allen or Rosen: Darnold

Rosen, Allen, or Mayfield: Rosen (this is the most likely 3-way QB choice scenario)

Ultimately it comes down to the Jets first round draft board...in your case if would look like this...

Darnold

Rosen

Mayfield 

(Allen wouldn't be on it as we will get one of those three)

 

Mine - 

Darnold

Mayfield

Rosen

[Larz]

3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Those Elway numbers are ugly but considering Joe Namath is our franchise cornerstone it's hard to throw stones.

Both guys pushed the ball down field. Today's NFL most passes are within 10 yards of the los. 

I have read one explanation for Allen's numbers are he pushes the ball down field 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, Larz said:

Both guys pushed the ball down field. Today's NFL most passes are within 10 yards of the los. 

I have read one explanation for Allen's numbers are he pushes the ball down field 

Yet Mayfield's ypa is higher.

[Thai Jet]

55 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you’re going off the Senior Bowl, then Kyle Lauletta is the number one pick in the draft.

YOU are the one who posted the one throw Senior Bowl workout in your meaningless post.

[Sonny Werblin]

If you listed the reasons not to draft each of the top 5 QBs and then listed the reasons to draft each of the top 5, what would it look like? And would Allen's pros have anything worthy to note other than his size and arm strength?

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, Sonny Werblin said:

But only one has the weakness of not being elite at playing QB at the college level.

My only point is that Rosen and Darnold are worthy of being selected in the top 3. Mayfield can be selected only because the Jets desperately need a QB, but he certainly is a justifiable top 20 selection. Allen, needs a lot of work, and does not naturally do things really good quarterbacks do. He's a project and not worthy of a top 10 selection.

This is why most teams wait last min on draft day to make these trades. I know the price could go up, but if darnold, Rosen did go 1 and two I don’t trade up and stay at 6. Either Allen or mayfield fall to 6 or I take a tremendous DE pass rusher in chubb, or a once in a lifetime RB in Barkley. If we take Allen or mayfield at 3, why didn’t we just take 1 at 6 and still have 3 premium picks still ? A trade this early only makes sense if it’s 1 or 2, or  you know will get darnold or Rosen at 3. 

[UntouchableCrew]

4 minutes ago, Larz said:

Both guys pushed the ball down field. Today's NFL most passes are within 10 yards of the los. 

I have read one explanation for Allen's numbers are he pushes the ball down field 

Oh, I totally agree. There's no comparison. I'm just saying the numbers are ugly.

[Sonny Werblin]

My final point is that if you applied all of the Allen rationale to every QB in the draft, then Lamar Jackson should be the #1 overall selection.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Jetsplayer21 said:

This is why most teams wait last min on draft day to make these trades. I know the price could go up, but if darnold, Rosen did go 1 and two I don’t trade up and stay at 6. Either Allen or mayfield fall to 6 or I take a tremendous DE pass rusher in chubb, or a once in a lifetime RB in Barkley. If we take Allen or mayfield at 3, why didn’t we just take 1 at 6 and still have 3 premium picks still ? A trade this early only makes sense if it’s 1 or 2, or  you know will get darnold or Rosen at 3. 

But what if you've made up your mind that you're not taking allen, period?  Then it becomes more compelling to go get the guy you want.

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, morny said:

I think he will take a lot of development, and there is legit question marks over him as a pro. I'd much prefer we took Mayfield (or Darnold or Rosen, but I'm assuming they'r both gone in this example). 

That said, if we take him at 3, even though I think he's a (big) reach - I'll be all in on supporting him, and I'll be looking forward to him coming in and seeing how he does. For 2 reasons

(1) I don't think it does him any good to be constantly against him from the start, regardless of what people think of the pick. An excited, welcoming atmosphere would go a long way to aiding his development. 

(2) I'm too tired to be negative, I just want to be excited and look forward to the potential of our new QB. I'm a strong believer in enjoying being a supporter, and therefore I want to try and enjoy the moments where we have things to legitimately look forward to. 

Well said. I voted yes with the understanding that Darnold, Rosen are gone. While I would prefer Mayfield I would wholeheartedly support the selection of Allen. We need a “reboot” on the Qb program. If Allen is it... nothing I can do but support him and if he sucks, at least it means the end of MacDaddy and Bowles 

[Jetsplayer21]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

But what if you've made up your mind that you're not taking allen, period?  Then it becomes more compelling to go get the guy you want.

Which is ? Rosen? darnold ? So we paid a lot to get to a spot we still may not get the guy we want ? Something tells me this is Mac getting cute again, instead of going all in. He never trades up unless it’s a good deal. I’m sure he tried to get the 1st or 2nd pick, but 3rd pick was the “better bargain. “