Josh Allen

[Dcronin]

All of the QBs have red flags. Josh Allen has the largest red flag of all of them. It's a red flag that says "INACCURACY ISSUES AND LOW COMPLETION PCT."

That's enough for a "no" from me. We have a project with a big arm already.

DC

[Jetmech]

Consistency is a red flag, most definitely, but Allen's ability to effortlessly throw lasers across the field and on a 30 yard rope, off his back foot, while running backwards (!), has to be making scouts drool. He reminds me a bit of Roethlisberger. Does he make bad decisions? Yes. They all do in college... try to do too much, especially when down. Allen has made some inexplicable throws but he has also made some throws that no one else of the top prospects can do. That's why he's jumped into the top three discussion. He's big, durable, athletic, and a good kid. He'll be a very good QB in the pro's if he's given a chance to develop; Rosen is well ahead of him in readiness, without a doubt.

He throws out patterns insanely well. Showed he could throw with touch in tight windows at the Senior Bowl.

Who knows. Maybe the next Brett Favre or another bust....

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[ryu79]

I am no draftnik, but i wanted to note one thing about the kid that's different than Hack and Geno and Cutler - this kid seems like a dude people want to be around, with leadership potential. I know those Wyoming kids around him were terrible but they lived for the guy and it was clear on the sideline he was their guy. Ive read similar stuff from the folks who cover the senior bowl and combine on how he conducted himself and worked with the other players there - we keep talking about this kid like Drago, but he seems to play with a lot of heart and have some alpha in him too.

The other interesting aspect to me about him is that he came from nowhere. Whereas i think Rosen and Darnold (and Hack, and Geno, and Cutler) were celebrated recruits, no one wanted Allen. That could be a sign, but the fact that he is now this polarizing story heading into the draft is a testament to a kid who believed in himself and kept fighting for his shot (a lot like Mayfield in this regard) - just this year he has seen his stock plummet after his rough start and yet composed himself and prepared himself to impress folks enough to be back in the convo. That speaks to a mental toughness that i think also differs from the Drago image. I get the sense so called experts see him improving week to week and believe with the right coaching he'd continue to do so because the kid truly really wants this.

We are terrified of him because, lets be real, we are who we are and know our luck, but what if the Giants look at him and think - yeah, learning from a Manning, we can turn that kid into Steve Young? Or John Elway is desperate to trade up to 2 because he feels like he is looking into a mirror when we looks at the kid? Josh Rosen is by far my fave qb in this draft, but a lot of experts have him going after Allen. 

All this to say, i think Jet fans are fearing the temptation and I wonder if teams/fanbases with more confidence in their staff will be all in on him?

[LAD_Brooklyn]

42 minutes ago, Dcronin said:

All of the QBs have red flags. Josh Allen has the largest red flag of all of them. It's a red flag that says "INACCURACY ISSUES AND LOW COMPLETION PCT."

That's enough for a "no" from me. We have a project with a big arm already.

DC

You can't take one issue and make them two separate violation. He's  doesn't miss his receiver any more or less then any other QB coming in. The problem is execution and that has more to do with anticipation. He has to see it to believe and regardless  of the lack of talent at receiver that he has to work with. He should have place more faith into them getting the job done.

 

This guy has no major injury issues, has the body size and strength to hang in there and take a pounding in the pocket. Has the mobility to escape pressure and handle a bad OL. Already went through the adversity of carrying a subpar football team to two of its best seasons in along time. Basically put Wyoming football program on the map and won two Bowl game. There's a lot to like about the kid.

[Greenseed4]

Watch his games from 2016 to see it. 

 

Does he have elite talent around him? No. But if the scouts are claiming a down year because his weaponz disappeared, try watching him with his dudes, in 2016. He still has flaws, he still makes bad throws, overthrows, and throws to the wrong team.  But you can see the “it”.  

If he was able to clean up some accuracy/footwork in just one month working with J Palmer before the combine, imagine what he can do before the season starts or if he sits for a year learning from McCown & Co. 

I like the traits, and the attitude. 

And the throws that others just can’t make. If he’s the pick, IT IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. 

 

 

On edit: before someone points  out this is a five-interception game, I want to point out that despite his heavily-taped ankle (which probably didn’t help his accuracy) check out who makes the tackles on the intercepting defender(s). 

[Tony MaC]

Watching a bunch of his games on draft breakdown. 

I can see why so many are high on him. Fantastic velocity on his throws, uses his ideal size in the pocket well to shake off tackles, and he's a long stride runner that has a great amount of mobility. He's already taken snaps from under center. Seems to be able to make multiple reads. He has the maneuverability, arm talent and field vision to make big plays.

Like any young QB he struggles against pressure, but he's also usually got all the right instincts to deal with it. I like that he's decisive and usually does all the right things to make a play work even if it doesn't always pan out (steps up in the pocket, takes short yards if he can, escapes the pocket to throw away, etc)

He's also a helluva lot more accurate than I thought he would be going in, it helps that his throwing speed and quick release seems to keep up with his brain when he's taking a shot. Even when he's off his passes are off they're not terribly off.

The biggest knock on him is going to be his potential adjustment from Mountain West conference defenses to that of the pros, but then that's the same problem ever QB will have to deal with in one way or another no matter how good their conference is.

I gotta say I like the Pro QB mold he's growing into which is basically a B. Roth clone. That's not to say he's guaranteed to be anywhere as good at Ben, but that's the best comparison I can make for his game off the top of my head.

If a team can keep him confident enough to fully adapt his game in the faster NFL they'd have a pretty solid overall QB. With McCown and Teddy here to take the edge off I think he can do it here. Wouldn't mind him at all if he fell to us.

 

[artemusclyde]

Quote

 

Depends how you define a drop. For instance, his receivers get both hands on 6 of his 19 throws against hawaii where they don't complete the catch, two were off throws (though catchable), and another was contested. Are they all drops (ie is it a drop if it's reasonable Julio Jones could have caught it)? Is it only a drop if the ball is in perfect position and uncontested?

But it gets murkier than that, his receivers were almost never wide open, and they rarely came up with difficult catches, which are things that don't really get charted but they can make huge differences if all you care about is completion percentage, especially in an offense that is a low volume passing offense. For instance, do you think it's fair to view this throw from Mayfield positively but count this throw from Allen as him being off target? Truth be told they were both off, but Mayfield had help from some ridiculous body control and extension from a receiver who has the look of a future high pick, and Allen just didn't.

Breaking film down you end up seeing a lot of shades of gray. Allen had very little surrounding talent, not just at receiver but all over. He had the 4th highest pressured rate in college, he had a bottom 5 rushing attack in the entire NCAA, and as I said earlier, his receivers were rarely wide open and they rarely made tough catches. I think it would be disingenuous to say his supporting cast was average for D1 football. I mean, they lost to a team with 0 D1 wins without him.

 

I'm just going to leave this post from reddit here describing why Allen gets unfairly sh*t on. The reason why Allen's completion % is terrible is his team is god awful, he's asked to make tight window throws, etc. Does he have spotty accuracy? Yes, but if he was playing in Mayfields system, if you don't think he breaks 60% completion your crazy. I'm just going to leave this quote for all you guys who absolutely hate him :

Quote

Scout's Quote: "Why does the league like him more than Twitter? Because we know what we're doing. Allen had nothing around him and people expect him to complete passes? To who?"

Taken from Miller's scouting report.

[NYDreamer]

One of the pluses I notice is how much experience he has taking the snap from Under Center.  That is one learning curve he would be ok with.

[Scoop24]

27 minutes ago, artemusclyde said:

I'm just going to leave this post from reddit here describing why Allen gets unfairly sh*t on. The reason why Allen's completion % is terrible is his team is god awful, he's asked to make tight window throws, etc. Does he have spotty accuracy? Yes, but if he was playing in Mayfields system, if you don't think he breaks 60% completion your crazy. I'm just going to leave this quote for all you guys who absolutely hate him :

Taken from Miller's scouting report.

Meanwhile hack played with the likes of Allen Robinson and Chris Godwin but people wanna say there the same . 

[roscoeword]

After some thought and looking at the tape,  don't know if Rosen is the choice, because he isn't that mobile and we have an atrocious offensive line. Maybe we should go for one of the more mobile qbs... 

[Jetscode1]

10 hours ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Darnold & Rosen would be my first and 2nd choices respectively.

I'd take Mayfield over Allen as the 3rd choice out of this QB crop....a 56% career completion percentage will not get it done on the NFL level.

It doesn't matter how strong your arm is if you can't put the ball in the right spot.

 

Player evaluations, especially QBs are brutal.  I wish we had sucked more so Mac could have his first choice and maybe Allen is his choice anyway...I'm just glad we're addressing the position early and often.  Rookie QBs garnering shade at this point is par for the course.  

[Jetscode1]

9 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

More like Allen has a 103 mph fastball and Jackson is at 98.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-draft-rankings-accuracy-arm-strength-and-everything-to-know-about-qbs/

Sorry, too long to copy and paste on my phone. Please note how often Allen is ranked 6th or not at all in categories.

Also has Mason Rudolph listed in the top 3 in 8 different categories.  Maybe Mac should draft Rudolph.  

[Bugg]

10 hours ago, Scoop24 said:

Lmaoo at the people comparing this kid to hackenberg that’s a very lazy take.  He does everything better than hackenberg coming out 

The obvious comparison is Carson Wentz. And barring injury Allen wouldn't see the field until Halloween  anyway. 

[harts724]

josh allen.htm BUST

[Jethead]

Has anybody got a copy of Mayock’s analysis? I think he’s high on Allen.

[Jetster]

People who were at the combine commented that Allen had the strongest arm they had seen since Jamarcus Russell, but not the peabrain of Russell. Allen is actually a big good kid, who takes to coaching, worked for everything he's gotten, took a much tougher path than any of these other kids except Mayfield. 

He has the height & build of Big Ben. He has the movement skills of Carson Wentz. He has a farm boy work ethic of a Terry Bradshaw. 

He has a quiet confidence, good leadership, was well liked by his teammates. His coach thinks the world of him. He proved at the senior bowl he could stand out playing with simarly talented football players. At the combine he threw ropes on sideline routes, actually every deep out which is mandatory for success in the NFL. 

Finally he played in a pro style offense, taking snaps from center. While many here would be pissed if we moved up to draft Allen, I'm ecstatic if we pick any QB from the top 4 of Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield. I believe Allen will have the most longevity based on his physical makeup, tough farm boy background and work ethic. 

It wouldnt shock me if the Browns or the Giants or Jets took Allen, we all play in cold windy stadiums after mid September. This guy played at Wyoming. Rosens injuries & concussions scare the HELL out of me. I think it's really strange that we resigned McCown & Teddy Bridgewater. Are the Jets finally thinking about the future of the AFC East & Brady and Belichick ending reign? McCown plays & coaches up Allen, Teddy learns the system as Allen is brought along & Teddy moves in if Allen isn't ready until mid 2019. 

I believe anyone riding this train that Allen will be a bust are ignoring this guys positives which greatly outway his negatives. But, I just want to see the Jets finally get another QB going forward. Not much they can do at 3 that won't excite me unless they didn't take a QB.

[Jetster]

26 minutes ago, Jethead said:

Has anybody got a copy of Mayock’s analysis? I think he’s high on Allen.

He was at the senior bowl & combine and has Allen at #2 after Darnold. 

[Green DNA]

You draft a top 5 pick based upon performance on the field and not potential / intangibles.   

[T0mShane]

4 hours ago, artemusclyde said:

Scout's Quote: "Why does the league like him more than Twitter? Because we know what we're doing. Allen had nothing around him and people expect him to complete passes? To who?"

Ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Sonny Werblin]

The funny thing about this whole debate over Allen or Mayfield is that none of our opinions matter. Mac will have final say as to the QB (hopefully with lots of input from the scouts and Bates), and whomever he selects we will all root for and hope that we finally have our franchise QB. 

I've had my say, I'm just going to sit back and try to figure out what the hell the Giants are going to do at #2 because I don't need any draft day surprises. The Jets have weakened my heart over the years, and the last thing I want on draft day is a coronary.  

[Jetster]

2 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The funny thing about this whole debate over Allen or Mayfield is that none of our opinions matter. Mac will have final say as to the QB (hopefully with lots of input from the scouts and Bates), and whomever he selects we will all root for and hope that we finally have our franchise QB. 

I've had my say, I'm just going to sit back and try to figure out what the hell the Giants are going to do at #2 because I don't need any draft day surprises. The Jets have weakened my heart over the years, and the last thing I want on draft day is a coronary.  

Just amazing that here we are finally in a position for a QB & we have the f*cking Giants in front of us who in theory can trade back with the Bill & Broncos and ruin our draft potentially.

[Bugg]

Best case scenario-either Browns or Jints take Barkley, one or the other gets wowed by Rosen, Jets get Darnold.

Worst-Darnold, Rosen, Jets get Allen or Mayfield. Don't see any of that even being bad.Quite the contrary. 

The fun and games portion of the program with the idiot HC then begins. Who ever this kid is and who ever the starter is, this kid gets sheetload of practice snaps or WEDONTRUNTHEBALLENOUGH Bowles is sent packing. NOBODY cares about your precious career or 5 wins in 2018, this season is getting the young QB ready. 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Just amazing that here we are finally in a position for a QB & we have the f*cking Giants in front of us who in theory can trade back with the Bill & Broncos and ruin our draft potentially.

Why would they need to trade back?

They're taking a QB themselves.

We're drafting the 3rd QB taken in the 2018 NFL Draft.

May as well make peace with that now.

[Jazy8ball]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why would they need to trade back?

They're taking a QB themselves.

We're drafting the 3rd QB taken in the 2018 NFL Draft.

May as well make peace with that now.

I see nothing wrong with that. The top 4 QB's are really close 

[peebag]

18 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Fun fact: no quarterback benefited more from playing in the pre-internet era than John Elway. 

 

Yea but his teammates sucked ass.  Everyone, and I do mean everyone, knew he was special.

[Bugg]

2 minutes ago, peebag said:

Yea but his teammates sucked ass.  Everyone, and I do mean everyone, knew he was special.

Offense consisted of Dan Reeves jerking off for 3 quarters,and then telling Elway to do what ever the f__ he could to win. 

[Jetster]

30 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why would they need to trade back?

They're taking a QB themselves.

We're drafting the 3rd QB taken in the 2018 NFL Draft.

May as well make peace with that now.

I don't agree. Giants are right up against the cap, have huge contracts from big purchases in free agency, OBJ is up for a contract, they still need a lot of help on their oline, and if they don't try to win RIGHT NOW over the next 2 years everything they did in free agency, including this year making Solder the highest paid olineman in the NFL wil be for naught.

[Paradis]

These circle jerk threads have the same 13 members with the same opinions they've ejaculated in 13 other threads.

The same people who hate Allen, have never watched him. The same people who come to his defense, and haven't watched him either.

[Sonny Werblin]

5 minutes ago, Jetster said:

I don't agree. Giants are right up against the cap, have huge contracts from big purchases in free agency, OBJ is up for a contract, they still need a lot of help on their oline, and if they don't try to win RIGHT NOW over the next 2 years everything they did in free agency, including this year making Solder the highest paid olineman in the NFL wil be for naught.

Their moves certainly make me feel like they are not taking a QB. And their GM is playing his hand like a pro saying things like "The #2 selection is where you find HOF quality players".  If I had to bet on it, he's either selling that pick for a king's ransom or taking Barkley or Chubb. People should not forget that the Giants win SB's when there D can get to the QB. 

[Sonny Werblin]

4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

These circle jerk threads have the same 13 members with the same opinions they've ejaculated in 13 other threads.

The same people who hate Allen, have never watched him. The same people who come to his defense, and haven't watched him either.

I've watched them all. And my criticism is that he is a project. You don't trade into the #3 spot for a project QB. I want Rosen or Darnold, but if it comes down to Allen or Mayfield, I'd prefer Baker -- I think he has a better chance of overcoming 1.625 inches than Allen has at becoming an instinctual thrower. I just don't think you learn the stuff that is Allen's shortcoming i.e. accuracy, timing and touch. They are innate. You can improve them, but only marginally.

All that said, what do I know!? After watching him in the Rose Bowl, I was convinced that Ryan Leaf would be a better pro than Peyton Manning.

[whodeawhodat]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-jets-land-josh-rosen-after-trade-cardinals-move-up-for-qb/

2018 NFL Mock Draft: Jets land Josh Rosen after trade, Cardinals move up for QB

The quarterbacks fly off the board early after Gang Green's aggressive trade up with the Colts

• 

• by Chris Trapasso
•  @ChrisTrapasso
• CBSSports.com
• 2h ago • 6 min read
•  

 

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The Jets significantly changed the entire dynamic of the top 10 in the 2018 NFL Draftlast Saturday after an aggressive trade up with the Colts that'll send non-quarterback prospects down the board. 

If Gang Green's front office hits on their signal-caller selections, everything will be alright in Florham Park. If not, the Jets will likely have to hit the reset button once again. But you've got to respect the boldness of GM Mike Maccagnan and head coach Todd Bowles, who likely need a good season to keep their jobs.

Will another team jump them to get to No. 2? Will the Giants take a quarterback in that spot?

The 2018 NFL Draft order has been tweaked.  

 

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1. Cleveland Browns

Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming. At this point, it'll be surprising if this pick isn't Allen or Sam Darnold. I'm going with Allen because of the superior physical attributes and Darnold's turnover issue which won't exactly thrill GM John Dorsey who's traded for risk-averse quarterbacks Alex Smith and Tyrod Taylor in his career. 

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2. New York Giants

Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State. GM Dave Gettleman would be open to a trade down, but he's not taking less than what the Colts got to slide back three spots, and that compensation package ultimately doesn't come his way. He picks Barkley to take pressure off Eli Manning and Odell Beckham as well as to give his ground game an ultra-talented ball-carrier.

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3. New York Jets (from Colts)

Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA. The Jets get the most natural passer in the draft after their trade up. Rosen is as clean as they come from the technical side and can be very accurate. He does have a tendency to overextend plays and force the football.

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4. Arizona Cardinals (via mock trade)

Sam Darnold, QB, USC. The Cardinals begin the Steve Wilks era with an aggressive move into the top 5 to pick Darnold, an immensely talented quarterback with some wrinkles that need to be ironed out. It wouldn't be the worst thing if he sits for his entire rookie year. 

 

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5. Denver Broncos

Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma. The Broncos pair Mayfield with a quarterback who has a similar skill set in Case Keenum. There's no rush to get the former Oklahoma star on the field, and Keenum is the ideal mentor.

[#27TheDominator]

The good thing about guys like Allen is that they are often good to start right away and grow into the job.  Big athletic dudes, you don't have to worry about them physically.  Like Roethlisberger and Flacco. 

20 hours ago, Dcat said:

can't really vote unless I know what my choices are. I think this covers most of the 2-QB combinations assuming it comes down to a 2 QB choice:

Allen vs Darnold: Darnold

Allen vs Rosen: Rosen

Allen vs Mayfield: the most likely scenario for Mac. Toughest decision of all 6.  I lean toward Mayfield.  I can't get over the how Allen struggles on short/midrange passes.  

Mayfield vs Darnold: Darnold

Mayfield vs Rosen: Rosen

Rosen vs Darnold:  least likely scenario but baby if this is the choice it would be incredible.  I lean towards Darnold but couldn't begin to defend myself if I tried.

3-way combinations are much easier:

Darnold, Mayfield, or Allen: Darnold

Darnold, Mayfield or Rosen: Darnold

Darnold, Allen or Rosen: Darnold

Rosen, Allen, or Mayfield: Rosen (this is the most likely 3-way QB choice scenario)

I pretty much agree with your analysis, though I have seen very little of them and Darnold in particular.  I am just wondering why Darnold vs. Rosen is a tough choice, but 3-way choices containing Darnold and Rosen are easier?

[Sonny Werblin]

If we have to choose between Darnold and Rosen my head may explode!

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

The good thing about guys like Allen is that they are often good to start right away and grow into the job.  Big athletic dudes, you don't have to worry about them physically.  Like Roethlisberger and Flacco. 

I pretty much agree with your analysis, though I have seen very little of them and Darnold in particular.  I am just wondering why Darnold vs. Rosen is a tough choice, but 3-way choices containing Darnold and Rosen are easier?

I think I meant the last of the 3-way choices was the easiest (the one without Darnold, which is the most likely 3 QB choice to occur).  The Darnold vs Rosen choice is difficult in any scenario.