THEORY: Jets are targeting Baker Mayfield

[Matt39]

Theory:

It got late earlier than anticipated at Florham Park and the Jets front office is throwing a bunch of sh*t at the wall as a last resort to compensate for a bunch of bad decisions. Two things could have easily been done to avoid this scenario:

1. Draft the QB instead of the safety that's in every draft at 6 last season

2. Play Hackenberg or Petty all of last season and end up in the top 3 without having to give up picks

Hopefully whoever they take at 3 ends up working out. 

The good news is it seems Maccagnan finally was told he doesnt have all day to find a QB because I was fully expecting the Jets to go mediocre athlete on defense at 6 again.

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, jetsons said:

so what... neither is Brees & both Wilson & Flutie are under 6 feet.

And Muggsy Bogues was 5'3" but that doesn't mean everyone under 5' 5" can find success in the NBA.

[Pcola]

26 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

So you think Rosen is a super star and Allen a bust?

I think Rosen has the highest floor of all the QBs.  He is going to be able to learn the entire playbook and be a very good QB very quickly.

I think Allen, based on his college production and competition is going to have a long road ahead of him.  If he goes to Cle, Buf, NYJ, or AZ, he will be expected to play before he is ready.

If Allen goes to the NYG or Den, where they have QBs already in place for the next 2 seasons, they can bring him along slowly.

When I watch Allen’s games, what frustrates me the most was the play calling of his head coach.  They would repeatedly run the ball on first and second down, leaving Allen in low probability 3rd downs.  So you could blame the HC for some of his struggles.  But then you need to remember Carson Wentz had the same HC.  The play calling was a lot different.  How does Allen have less than 250 yards passing in 10 of 11 games?  His one outlier was against Garner Webb.

Nothing he did on the field warrants all the attention or lofty draft status.  The team that drafts him is going to be relying 100% on their coaching staff to make him a QB.

Does that sound like the NYJs?  Also, he is a terrible fit for the WCO.  I just highly doubt the CS has OK’d him as a pick.  

[jetstream23]

7 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

For the politicos that theorize the Jets will not select Rosen because he has worn an anti-trump hat, Baker Mayfield's middle name is Reagan!

We need a thread where everyone can discuss the reasons other than football that these guys may be selected.

You know, I slipped in the garage and fell on my ass over the weekend.  I had an instant flashback to the butt fumble.  When I looked on the garage floor I saw that what I had slipped on was an Allen Wrench.  So...obviously...we're drafting Josh Allen and he's going to be worse than Sanchez.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, Pcola said:

I think Rosen has the highest floor of all the QBs.  He is going to be able to learn the entire playbook and be a very good QB very quickly.

I think Allen, based on his college production and competition is going to have a long road ahead of him.  If he goes to Cle, Buf, NYJ, or AZ, he will be expected to play before he is ready.

If Allen goes to the NYG or Den, where they have QBs already in place for the next 2 seasons, they can bring him along slowly.

When I watch Allen’s games, what frustrates me the most was the play calling of his head coach.  They would repeatedly run the ball on first and second down, leaving Allen in low probability 3rd downs.  So you could blame the HC for some of his struggles.  But then you need to remember Carson Wentz had the same HC.  The play calling was a lot different.  How does Allen have less than 250 yards passing in 10 of 11 games?  His one outlier was against Garner Webb.

Nothing he did on the field warrants all the attention or lofty draft status.  The team that drafts him is going to be relying 100% on their coaching staff to make him a QB.

Does that sound like the NYJs?  Also, he is a terrible fit for the WCO.  I just highly doubt the CS has OK’d him as a pick.  

I agree. And since Bates is going to be a part of this decision, if they do draft Allen, it will be at his request

[C Mart]

31 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I don't think that. I was just laying it out there as a possibility. I like Mac, but I still don't trust him 100%. After all, he did watch Hack and think "I need to trade up in the second round an take that guy".

He didn’t trade up to draft Hack. 

[UnitedWhofans]

32 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I don't think that. I was just laying it out there as a possibility. I like Mac, but I still don't trust him 100%. After all, he did watch Hack and think "I need to trade up in the second round an take that guy".

I get that but you are not looking at the Jeremy Bates factor

[Sonny Werblin]

7 minutes ago, C Mart said:

He didn’t trade up to draft Hack. 

you're right. My bad.

[legler82]

5 hours ago, Pcola said:

I don’t think Allen fits Bates modified WCO.  Allen is a better fit with Cleveland and Todd Haley’s vertical offense.

WCO is designed to use quick short passes.  Allen’s 61% completion 6 yards or less make him a bad fit for us unless Bates is going to redo the way he has coached his entire career.

Not all WCOs are created equal.  Bates is Mike Shanahan disciple.  Shanahan's WCO offense involved a heavy run attack behind a zone blocking scheme; Shanahan's offense was notorious spitting out 1,000 yard rushers from low and undrafted FA running backs.  The passing attack was then built off of that w/ play lots action, bootlegs and design rollouts attacking the intermediate to deep part of the field; not to mention design runs.  Coincidentally, those are the type of plays Allen excels at. To run this type of WCO, Mike Shanahan tended to gravitate towards big arm athletic QBs (e.g., Elway, Cutler, McNabb, RGIII...etc.).  But we'll see if Bates adopts the same type of WCO or goes more for the traditional WCO, where the short passing game is an extension of or in some cases a substitute of the running game.  I doubt the latter since reports are Morton was let go for not running the ball enough.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Literally the only thing giving me hope is the rumor that Brian Heimerdinger has been taking on a bigger role in the organization and that Maccagnan has gone back to being more of a scout. Still, it’s unnerving to know that the guy who scouted Hackenberg and thought he was a second rounder is roaming the country now looking at quarterbacks again.

Huh, really, I didn't know that, thanks for the information, so basically Maccagnan has been busted down a notch, that is very good news.  Anyway, this is probably Maccagnan/Bowles final year with the Jets.  Even if the Jets drafted John Elway, they are not, nor will they ever see 1 play-off game with this head coach, simply because he is the hands down the worst coach in the AFC East, and bottom 3 in the entire league.

In my opinion the Hackenberg pick was actually calculated.  If he hits he looks like a genius and if he whiffs he has the built in excuse,"Hey at least he wasn't a 1st Rounder, look at GM X,Y and Z, they wasted 1st Rounders, I didn't do that".

The best thing about the Hackenberg pick and this hardly even relates to Hackenberg, it's this, in a totally totally LOST season, these bums Maccagnan and Bowles would not let Hackenberg see 1 single snap of real game action.  Hey, maybe the light comes on for him? (I know that would a Billion to 1 Odds against, but still there would be the smallest amount of hope, but we'll NEVER know, why?  Because these guys are despicable, they knew how horrific Hackenberg looked and they wanted to deflect criticism away from themselves as much as possible, hence...totally HIDE him.  Again CYA...that's ALWAYS their MO).  It's not even simple incompetence with these 2, it's GROSS incompetence.

And it's far from not being able to evaluate QB talent.  What unit would you say does he have a good eye for?  I can't think of any.

The Jets roster was still so depleted after 3 Years of Maccagnan that probably still as of today they can't even field a Pro Special Teams Unit.

All joking aside, I think if you took one of these Fantasy Football Whiz Kids, one of them would be able to put together a roster that would out and out STOMP Maccagnan's roster.

Here is to hoping that Heimerdinger has lots of influence on the 1 single pick that will shape much of the next decade of Jet football.

[legler82]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

I simply cannot see this GM picking Mayfield over Allen.  I'd have to see it happen to believe it.

I think the entire point of this move was to get high enough to get Allen, or possibly Rosen or Darnold if something crazy happened, and to AVOID being left holding the Mayfield bag.

 

It's like a game of hot potato between the Jets, Bills and Denver.  This is why Mayfield will be a Saint.  Book it!!!

[Warfish]

12 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Anyway, this is probably Maccagnan/Bowles final year with the Jets.

Lol, no.

Picking a QB and not playing him till late buys Macc/Bowles at least one more year beyond 2018.

They need to basically win a few games (say, 5?) and they get another year.

And even if you're right, do you really want an outgoing GM drafting a QB for an outgoing coach?  Of course not, because they're not outgoing at all.

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

I look at this a little bit differently.  Macc pulled the trigger on the trade a few days after both Mayfield and Rosen had their pro days.  If he liked both of them, then why the rush to move up.  You still have Darnold and Allen pro days coming up.  But, if he only liked one of them, and does not think the other is worth a pick in the Top 6, then he might have been motivated to make the move now if the big 4 is now a big 3 in his mind.

 

 

 

I think the move up was much more the fear that all 4 top rated QBs would be gone by pick 5, forcing Mac to either pick Chubb/Fitzppatric at 6 or trade down and get Rudolph or Jackson later in rd 1 or just wait till round 2 for Lauletta, Falk or White.   That was the only true crash and burn scenario for round 1 for Mac and the trade up to #3 eliminated that horror show scenario. 

[legler82]

1 hour ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Me too. The kid has made things happen his whole life. He did it. He didn't wait for opportunities to come to him. He made his own opportunities. It is a stupid bet, to bet against a guy like that. Everything Mayfiled has he has worked his ass off for and he has supreme confidence in himself. I look at Allen and I think everything he has is because others have seen potential in him.

From an existential standpoint, all of Mayfield's strengths are internal, while Allen's are external.

The bold makes no sense.  Allen grew up in farm had no scholarship offers after high school and had go to junior college.  He then received just 1 scholarship offer after sending his highlight video to virtually every school in the country.  I bet if Allen could pay his own way to earn a scholarship as a walk-on somewhere he would.  Mayfield does not own a monopoly making his own opportunities or having a chip on the shoulder.  

[Jazy8ball]

50 minutes ago, Pcola said:

I think Rosen has the highest floor of all the QBs.  He is going to be able to learn the entire playbook and be a very good QB very quickly.

I think Allen, based on his college production and competition is going to have a long road ahead of him.  If he goes to Cle, Buf, NYJ, or AZ, he will be expected to play before he is ready.

If Allen goes to the NYG or Den, where they have QBs already in place for the next 2 seasons, they can bring him along slowly.

When I watch Allen’s games, what frustrates me the most was the play calling of his head coach.  They would repeatedly run the ball on first and second down, leaving Allen in low probability 3rd downs.  So you could blame the HC for some of his struggles.  But then you need to remember Carson Wentz had the same HC.  The play calling was a lot different.  How does Allen have less than 250 yards passing in 10 of 11 games?  His one outlier was against Garner Webb.

Nothing he did on the field warrants all the attention or lofty draft status.  The team that drafts him is going to be relying 100% on their coaching staff to make him a QB.

Does that sound like the NYJs?  Also, he is a terrible fit for the WCO.  I just highly doubt the CS has OK’d him as a pick.  

Very well written. I just can't get my head around this. If Allen is such a risk, why do guys that do this for a living project him top 3. Mahomes has a cannon too, he was not projected top 5. Just out of curiosity, where do you think Trubisky would rank in this class?

[New York Mick]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

Mayfield would not have made it past Denver.  Reports say that they love the guy.  

Let Denver have him. One of the other QBs would still be available. 

[Dcat]

Just now, New York Mick said:

Let Denver have him. One of the other QBs would still be available. 

who?  Darnold, Rosen gone for sure.  Allen?  Maybe, maybe not.  Strong chance he gets taken before 6 too.  I believe the possibilty of 4 QBs taken in picks 1-5 is very high.  Unusual?  Yes.  But this year it can, and I think it will, happen.

[pdxgreen]

It's funny that everybody around the league is spreading disinformation about the Jets taking Mayfield right now.  I honestly think Macc has already made his decision.  No way he's letting Mayfield get by.

[IndianaJet]

5 hours ago, BCJet said:

While I dont care about Rosen wearing the anti-trump hat and dont feel its a big deal, its a bit different for the Jets organization as Woody essentially works for Trump.  Just something to think about

If they draft a player based upon his political leanings....they all deserve to be fired.

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Pcola said:

I think Rosen has the highest floor of all the QBs.  He is going to be able to learn the entire playbook and be a very good QB very quickly.

I think Allen, based on his college production and competition is going to have a long road ahead of him.  If he goes to Cle, Buf, NYJ, or AZ, he will be expected to play before he is ready.

If Allen goes to the NYG or Den, where they have QBs already in place for the next 2 seasons, they can bring him along slowly.

When I watch Allen’s games, what frustrates me the most was the play calling of his head coach.  They would repeatedly run the ball on first and second down, leaving Allen in low probability 3rd downs.  So you could blame the HC for some of his struggles.  But then you need to remember Carson Wentz had the same HC.  The play calling was a lot different.  How does Allen have less than 250 yards passing in 10 of 11 games?  His one outlier was against Garner Webb.

Nothing he did on the field warrants all the attention or lofty draft status.  The team that drafts him is going to be relying 100% on their coaching staff to make him a QB.

Does that sound like the NYJs?  Also, he is a terrible fit for the WCO.  I just highly doubt the CS has OK’d him as a pick.  

Rosen has a VERY low floor for reasons that GMs seldom have to consider-rich LA kid with neurologist father, who already has an injury history and concussions.  He is outside the box.  These NFL guys are very INSIDE the box. 

[varjet]

2 hours ago, Pcola said:

And Baker’s hands are small compared to the other QBs.  Not sure how that will play out but it’s worth noting.

I thought Baker had bigger hands than Darnold?

[New York Mick]

23 minutes ago, Dcat said:

who?  Darnold, Rosen gone for sure.  Allen?  Maybe, maybe not.  Strong chance he gets taken before 6 too.  I believe the possibilty of 4 QBs taken in picks 1-5 is very high.  Unusual?  Yes.  But this year it can, and I think it will, happen.

If you put the draft order back to how it was. 

Cleveland - Barkley, Allen, 

Giants - Rosen, Darnold, Barkley, Nelson

Indy - Chubb, Fitzpatrick, Nelson

Cleveland - Allen, Barkley

Denver - Darnold, Rosen, Fitzpatrick, Mayfield 

NYJ - Mayfield, Rosen, Allen

Etc. there’s plenty of ways this works out with the Jets getting Mayfield or one of the other QBs hopefully Rosen. 

[k-met57]

2 hours ago, jetsons said:

It's OBVIOUS you Never seen Doug Flutie play... you want to talk about the "IT" Factor he had in spades...

Joe Theismann was slightly shorter than Baker... he was only 6'.

Hold on so u think Doug Flutie is a franchise QB? The guy with 86 career TD’s? I’ve seen him play plenty...you should go re-watch some of it yourself maybe. He was a nice player but thats where it stops.

[varjet]

2 hours ago, Dr Evil said:

I just dont see Mac taking a QB who has accuracy issues but makes up for it with his PERFECT QB BOD. You cant teach accuracy in the NFL and Mac of all people should have seen that firsthand.

Hack 2.0.  The Johnsons are very involved in this.  They picked Sanchez because of the GQ angle.  They like Mayfield.  Mayfield is a virtually Long Islander.  If he hits, he is Namath II,.

 

52 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

Very well written. I just can't get my head around this. If Allen is such a risk, why do guys that do this for a living project him top 3. Mahomes has a cannon too, he was not projected top 5. Just out of curiosity, where do you think Trubisky would rank in this class?

Allen is a potential Wentz, Roethisberger, Flacco.  Trubisky?  4,above Allen, IMHO.

36 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

It's funny that everybody around the league is spreading disinformation about the Jets taking Mayfield right now.  I honestly think Macc has already made his decision.  No way he's letting Mayfield get by.

See above. This is not Mac’s decision.  The Johnsons are picking Mayfield.  

[legler82]

3 minutes ago, Jazy8ball said:

Very well written. I just can't get my head around this. If Allen is such a risk, why do guys that do this for a living project him top 3. Mahomes has a cannon too, he was not projected top 5. Just out of curiosity, where do you think Trubisky would rank in this class?

Allen is projected that high because of his size and athleticism in addition to his arm.  Mahomes did not have the same size and athleticism plus was an Air Raid product.  

Allen is just a huge risk in the eyes of Jets fans because of the Hackenberg.  The reality is that he has a higher floor thank Mayfield.  At worst Allen is Bortles maybe at best too...lol.  Mayfield however could be Chase Daniels.

[Jethead]

2 hours ago, jetsons said:

It's OBVIOUS you Never seen Doug Flutie play... you want to talk about the "IT" Factor he had in spades...

Joe Theismann was slightly shorter than Baker... he was only 6'.

Theisman is a good comparison for Mayfield. I'd say it's 20-1 against Mayfield being one of Mac's final 3. As others have said, it's between Rosen and Allen. Mac is old school, wants a prototype QB.

[bitonti]

5 hours ago, k-met57 said:

Brees - played in SD, and then in a Dome

Wilson - about 5 times the athlete that Baker is, came from a pro style O

Flutie - god forbit this 3rd pic's upside is Doug Flutie

 

who else you got?

and none of em went even close to top 5 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

and none of em went even close to top 5 

hey, a #16 seed beat a #1 for the first time ever.  

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Theory:

It got late earlier than anticipated at Florham Park and the Jets front office is throwing a bunch of sh*t at the wall as a last resort to compensate for a bunch of bad decisions. Two things could have easily been done to avoid this scenario:

1. Draft the QB instead of the safety that's in every draft at 6 last season

2. Play Hackenberg or Petty all of last season and end up in the top 3 without having to give up picks

Hopefully whoever they take at 3 ends up working out. 

The good news is it seems Maccagnan finally was told he doesnt have all day to find a QB because I was fully expecting the Jets to go mediocre athlete on defense at 6 again.

I think Mahomes outplays EVERY QB in this Draft, and by a wide margin.  But we got a box Safety that has great cheerleading intangibles.  Consenus said he was the “best player in the Draft”.

[bitonti]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

hey, a #16 seed beat a #1 for the first time ever.  

yeah and if the outcome was decided by a bunch of execs that wouldn't have happened. 

[UnitedWhofans]

1 minute ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

I think Mahomes outplays EVERY QB in this Draft, and by a wide margin.

He's from the same conference as Bryce Petty and Baker Mayfield

[Smashmouth]

6 hours ago, SMC said:

Macc, who likes tall QBs with strong arms did not move up to 3 to take a weak-armed midget QB.

This is all about getting a shot at either Darnold, Rosen or Allen.

you may be right but in no way does Baker Mayfield have a weak arm. As a matter of fact during the Combine Mayock said Mayfield had a strong arm. Not a rocket like Allen or Rosen but a strong arm. Reason probably because he sets himself properly to throw the football and its not something he has to learn he just does it naturally 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Lol, no.

Picking a QB and not playing him till late buys Macc/Bowles at least one more year beyond 2018.

They need to basically win a few games (say, 5?) and they get another year.

And even if you're right, do you really want an outgoing GM drafting a QB for an outgoing coach?  Of course not, because they're not outgoing at all.

No I don’t want an outgoing GM drafting a QB for an outgoing coach, that’s why I wanted a real GM and a real Head Coach to start this year, but the team needs “continuity”.  A “real” GM and coach cost money though and there are no salary cap constraints.

The only thing continuous you will see is Gross Incompetence, and that’s why I say these guys are gone after this year, or maybe that’s just wishful thinking.

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

7 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

He's from the same conference as Bryce Petty and Baker Mayfield

I don’t care what conference he played in in college, he can make plays that no one in this Draft can.

[UnitedWhofans]

2 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

I don’t care what conference he played in in college, he can make plays that no one in this Draft can.

Watched a film room video that compared Mahomes to Allen.