JoJoTownsell1 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Here are your Heisman Trophy Winners (QBs) since 2000. Mariota- Still hasn't proven anything and if anything regressed last year 13TDS/15INTs (#2 Overall Draft pick) Winston- A headcase that is one more bad year away from being labeled a bust (#1 Overall Draft pick ) Manziel- LOL (#22 Overall draft pick) RG3- One year wonder (#2 Overall Draft pick) Cam- Dynamic athlete, but plenty of question marks as a passer. But still a winning NFL QB. (#1 Overall Draft pick) Bradford- Only good at getting paid (#1 Overall Draft pick) Tebow- Great punt protector (#25 Overall draft pick) Matt Leinart- Poor man's Sanchez (#10 overall draft pick) Jason White- Who? Carson Palmer- Very good career (#1 overall draft pick) Chris Weinke- A Zero I am not suggesting that winning the Heisman makes a player less likely to succeed in the NFL but it does seem to inflate their value as can be seen in this forum where many are suggesting Mayfield is far and away a safer bet than Allen. The reality is that Heisman winners are the opposite of safe bets. Their success rate as 1st round picks is awful. Now you factor in Mayfield's height, less than ideal arm strength and attitude issues (maybe/maybe not) and I just don't see how people are in love with him over Allen. Allen is flawed as well and my first two choices are clearly Darnold/Rosen, but after them you are just picking from 2 flawed choices. The reality is that Jets fans should have preferences not demands. I prefer Darnold. I prefer Rosen. I'll settle for Mayfield/Allen. Those comments make sense. I just don't get "We better not draft Allen!! I'm an orthodontist, but I KNOW for a fact based on my 4 hours of college football that i watch a year that Allen will be a bust!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDL_JET Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Honestly that list tells me nothing. There's some good, there's some bad, and then the ugly. The award is meaningless when evaluating a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j4jets Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Hey! Chris Wanker won a game with Testaverde! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSfan4life_1 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Awards mean nottin.... see for yourself the greatest QB of all time when it's all said and done aka "Tom I isher Brady" 5 superbowl rings and counting ... just sayin ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, MDL_JET said: Honestly that list tells me nothing. There's some good, there's some bad, and then the ugly. The award is meaningless when evaluating a player. It doesn't tell you that teams over value Heisman winners? From 11 of them there's a combined 1 super bowl appearance and zero wins. And none look close to winning one anytime soon. The point isn't that Mayfield may not be good but everyone is ignoring the negatives and just falling in love with the kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Heisman winners normally come from good teams. A lot of these guys had all day to throw, dominate running games, better receivers and TEs then the DBs, basically just better over all teams. When they go into the nfl they go to sh*tty teams, get killed and don’t know how to win without the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandy Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 42 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: Winston- A headcase that is one more bad year away from being labeled a bust (#1 Overall Draft pick ) Winston has never had a bad year, just posted 92 rating with almost 4k yards in 13 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Grandy said: Winston has never had a bad year, just posted 92 rating with almost 4k yards in 13 games. Exactly.. what is this man even talking about lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, Grandy said: Winston has never had a bad year, just posted 92 rating with almost 4k yards in 13 games. He's the first QB in the NFL history to throw for 4k+ and 20+ in his first 2 season as a QB and would have done it for 3 if he didnt get injured. I'd take Winston over any of these bozo's in this class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, JiF said: He's the first QB in the NFL history to throw for 4k+ and 20+ in his first 2 season as a QB and would have done it for 3 if he didnt get injured. I'd take Winston over any of these bozo's in this class. His reasoning for Mariota not being good enough is pretty hilarious too. he is one of the most efficient QB’s in the red zone year in and year out and they just got to round two of the playoffs last year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 26 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: Exactly.. what is this man even talking about lol? 2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: His reasoning for Mariota not being good enough is pretty hilarious too. he is one of the most efficient QB’s in the red zone year in and year out and they just got to round two of the playoffs last year... Do you only watch Jets games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: I am not suggesting that winning the Heisman makes a player less likely to succeed in the NFL but it does seem to inflate their value as can be seen in this forum where many are suggesting Mayfield is far and away a safer bet than Allen. The reality is that Heisman winners are the opposite of safe bets. Their success rate as 1st round picks is awful. Now you factor in Mayfield's height, less than ideal arm strength and attitude issues (maybe/maybe not) and I just don't see how people are in love with him over Allen. Allen is flawed as well and my first two choices are clearly Darnold/Rosen, but after them you are just picking from 2 flawed choices. The reality is that Jets fans should have preferences not demands. I prefer Darnold. I prefer Rosen. I'll settle for Mayfield/Allen. Those comments make sense. I just don't get "We better not draft Allen!! I'm an orthodontist, but I KNOW for a fact based on my 4 hours of college football that i watch a year that Allen will be a bust!!" I too dont understand the Mayfield hype but I also completely understand the Allen criticism. What I like about Allen is what I hate about Mayfield. That said, I get both sides of each argument on each player. In terms of want vs. demand vs. preference - I think it's totally fair for Jets fans to act this way because we've shown numerous times in history to know more than the guy picking. Sapp! Marino! Reed! poop! poop! and more poop! So does it matter? It's fan talk. None of this means anything, we cant control that sh*t. I'd be upset if we traded up for Mayfied or Allen, so there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: Do you only watch Jets games? This is your rebuttal? OK. I’ll bite since we all love talking about stats and numbers. I want you to go look up Winston’s numbers and then I want you to look up Mariotas efficiency rating in the red zone and how successful he has been even outside of the numbers. You don’t have a point as far as Winston/Mariota go..I can understand the others on the list...really not Cam Newton or even Bradford because his knee is so torn up dating back to his younger years that he could slip on a banana peel and tear a ligament. He still posted nice numbers when he wasn’t on a cart heading to the locker room. But I understand the point of the thread. With that said....since the numbers are so spotty with success at this level does it even pay to try and make a connection between success and Heisman winners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted March 19, 2018 Author Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said: This is your rebuttal? OK. I’ll bite since we all love talking about stats and numbers. I want you to go look up Winston’s numbers and then I want you to look up Mariotas efficiency rating in the red zone and how successful he has been even outside of the numbers. You don’t have a point as far as Winston/Mariota go..I can understand the others on the list...really not Cam Newton or even Bradford because his knee is so torn up dating back to his younger years that he could slip on a banana peel and tear a ligament. He still posted nice numbers when he wasn’t on a cart heading to the locker room. If the Jets draft a QB this year and that QB, in YEAR 3, has a season where he throws for 13tds and 15ints, no one will care about his "efficiency rating" in the red zone. They'll be calling for Macc to be fired. Mariota and Winston are super talented QBs that have accomplished nothing besides racking up stats and combining for zero 10 win seasons. Will that change in years 4-5-6? Maybe, but where in my original post did I say that Heisman Winning QBs have never been good or had some good seasons? Again, the point you didn't understand, is that Heisman QBs get drafted way too high and get over valued. To date, Winston/Mariota have only shown flashes. No one is considering them top QBs while guys like Wentz/Luck were considered great within a year or 2. Even Goff looks ready to emerge while Winston/Mariota had down years in year 3 when they should be taking the next step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Andrew Luck and DeShaun Watson almost won the Heisman but narrowly lost. I guess if they'd won the award they would have sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: Here are your Heisman Trophy Winners (QBs) since 2000. Mariota- Still hasn't proven anything and if anything regressed last year 13TDS/15INTs (#2 Overall Draft pick) Winston- A headcase that is one more bad year away from being labeled a bust (#1 Overall Draft pick ) Manziel- LOL (#22 Overall draft pick) RG3- One year wonder (#2 Overall Draft pick) Cam- Dynamic athlete, but plenty of question marks as a passer. But still a winning NFL QB. (#1 Overall Draft pick) Bradford- Only good at getting paid (#1 Overall Draft pick) Tebow- Great punt protector (#25 Overall draft pick) Matt Leinart- Poor man's Sanchez (#10 overall draft pick) Jason White- Who? Carson Palmer- Very good career (#1 overall draft pick) Chris Weinke- A Zero I am not suggesting that winning the Heisman makes a player less likely to succeed in the NFL but it does seem to inflate their value as can be seen in this forum where many are suggesting Mayfield is far and away a safer bet than Allen. The reality is that Heisman winners are the opposite of safe bets. Their success rate as 1st round picks is awful. Now you factor in Mayfield's height, less than ideal arm strength and attitude issues (maybe/maybe not) and I just don't see how people are in love with him over Allen. Allen is flawed as well and my first two choices are clearly Darnold/Rosen, but after them you are just picking from 2 flawed choices. The reality is that Jets fans should have preferences not demands. I prefer Darnold. I prefer Rosen. I'll settle for Mayfield/Allen. Those comments make sense. I just don't get "We better not draft Allen!! I'm an orthodontist, but I KNOW for a fact based on my 4 hours of college football that i watch a year that Allen will be a bust!!" The Heisman has nothing to do with why Mayfield is a safer pick that Allen. In fact, I haven't seen that argument made anywhere. What I have seen is that Mayfield has shown a much higher level of performance than Allen thus far, has a way higher completion percentage and has improved steadily every year. Hard to make any argument for Allen based on their respective college success or stats. The arguments in favor of Allen come down to his height and his arm-strength. I am convinced that Mayfield will be a better pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 14 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said: If the Jets draft a QB this year and that QB, in YEAR 3, has a season where he throws for 13tds and 15ints, no one will care about his "efficiency rating" in the red zone. They'll be calling for Macc to be fired. Mariota and Winston are super talented QBs that have accomplished nothing besides racking up stats and combining for zero 10 win seasons. Will that change in years 4-5-6? Maybe, but where in my original post did I say that Heisman Winning QBs have never been good or had some good seasons? Again, the point you didn't understand, is that Heisman QBs get drafted way too high and get over valued. To date, Winston/Mariota have only shown flashes. No one is considering them top QBs while guys like Wentz/Luck were considered great within a year or 2. Even Goff looks ready to emerge while Winston/Mariota had down years in year 3 when they should be taking the next step. Look...it doesn’t always happen the same for each person I mean every career path is different you may have one quarterback who lites it up his first year and then never heard from again and then there’s people like Aaron Rodgers who is soon as he starts is great and then there are people are late bloomers. To say Mariota and Winston arent good or busts according to their draft value because they put up numbers but not wins is kind of asinine. Football is a team game. There are 10 other guys on the field besides the QB. QB is most important but it doesn’t work without working in unison. 13-15 is not great. Agreed. I also think that if Mariota would of gotten the Jets to the second round of the playoffs, Jets fans wouldn’t be complaining, period. Players don’t have to statistically get better each year to actually get better in real time. Some progression doesn’t show up on paper. they already have taken their big step. Mariota is an extremely good QB and Winston is probably even more so an extremely good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah dude you funny! the info you posted is meaningless. winning the heismann has done very little (if anything) regarding where those QB's were selected. now if you can do a similar list as that for QB's selected in the month of March for the last 18 years ... That will be equally as informative and impressive ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Anybody who doesn't think that Mariota is going to good (despite a crappy coach and an even crappier offensive system) needs to have their head examined. By the end of the year, he was calling all the plays in the huddle. Now he may actually have a team and coach behind him that can help him live up to his talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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