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Crying Over Spilled Milk (Jets QB Situation)


Warfish

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We offered the most money to Cousins. He said no. That's his choice. He went with a team that was a game away from Superbowl last year.
Thank you. That's what I was trying to tell warfish.

I wish people would stop saying the Jets offered more. In the weeks since the Cousins deal happened, I have heard from dozens of NFL Front Office people (Mark Domineck, Pat Kirwan, Gil Brandt, et al), players and sports accountancy practitioners, that players are absolutely explained the particulars of the contract in terms of net dollars - that is, net of taxes based on the location of both home and road games (and other factors stuck as cost of living etc.). BTW, thay all said that from an accountants standpoint the AFC South is by far the division to play in, for one of the 3 no-state tax states especially, HOU, TN or JAX. INDI is very low state tax as well though.

 

The Vikings offer would net Cousins approximately $800k more annually based on state tax rates alone. Does not include cost of living, Federal taxes (which, with the new $10k cap on state tax deductions, is not an insignificant amount ate 'll for these guys playing in high tax cities/states). The Jets would have had to offer about $6MM more (so $90MM over 3) in order to match the Vikings offer based on state taxes, which is basically what they did - matched the state taxes disparity. In order to match the rest of the disparity (Fed and COL) they apparently would have had to offer as much as $6MM more, or $96MM over 3 years. I'm no accountant, these are numbers mentioned on Sirius by Robert Raiola, @SportsTaxMan, who runs the sports division at one of the top sports accountancy firms.

 

Found this chart based on 2015. The salary cap that year was $143,280,000. Here's what each team's players would take home if they spent exactly the cap: Tax-Adjusted-NFL-Salary-Caps.jpg&key=76f5f485f5075c25d847e8b3563049c60ad406fbdd906b449121dc0191d6efc2

 

You'll see the Vikings are in a high tax state. However, as the number crunchers pointed out, Minn has a reciprocal tax agreement with Michigan, where Cousins bought his home in 2017. Their tax rate is less than half what Cousins would pay if he were a Jet.

 

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9 minutes ago, isired said:

I wish people would stop saying the Jets offered more. In the weeks since the Cousins deal happened, I have heard from dozens of NFL Front Office people (Mark Domineck, Pat Kirwan, Gil Brandt, et al), players and sports accountancy practitioners, that players are absolutely explained the particulars of the contract in terms of net dollars - that is, net of taxes based on the location of both home and road games (and other factors stuck as cost of living etc.). BTW, thay all said that from an accountants standpoint the AFC South is by far the division to play in, for one of the 3 no-state tax states especially, HOU, TN or JAX. INDI is very low state tax as well though.

 

 this chart based on 2015. The salary cap that year was $143,280,000. Here's what each team's players would take home if they spent exactly the cap: Tax-Adjusted-NFL-Salary-Caps.jpg&key=76f5f485f5075c25d847e8b3563049c60ad406fbdd906b449121dc0191d6efc2

 

You'll see the Vikings are in a high tax state. However, as the number crunchers pointed out, Minn has a reciprocal tax agreement with Michigan, where Cousins bought his home in 2017. Their tax rate is less than half what Cousins would pay if he were a Jet.

 

What most of said is correct. The Jets DID offer more $$. That's what we said.     I'm thinking you must have a ton of extra time on your hands. lol

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21 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The way things fell?  You mean he was unlucky that his draft picks and free agent signings have generally sucked?  Poor baby. 

Where is this aging roster?  Brick and Mangold?  Were they replaced?  Harris, Cromartie and Revis?  He signed them to big deals. Fitzpatrick, Marshall, Forte and McCown?  Idzik didn't leave him those guys. sh*t, he even brought back Kerley.  He replaced Ivory with Forte and Brick with Clady, a guy who was more ready to retire than Brick.  Was Calvin Pace really that tough to replace? He replaced Geno/Sanchez with Fitzpatrick and then McCown.  Getting younger?

I can understand the learning on the job aspect and the idea that they wanted to compete in year 1 - even though I think that narrative is overblown around here.  OTOH, give any incoming GM a ton of cap space and #6 overall and they are stoked.  I sure would be.  That is why all these names are flocking to the Browns. 

Apparently one should only expect someone to not screw up if he walks into a roster that just made the divisional round or better, on the backs of 23-27 year-old starters that are each still locked up for the next 2-3 years minimum. 

When he got here, players were willing to sign with the Jets. Now in year 4, there are supposedly at no fewer than 3 FAs who took less money to play elsewhere. 

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2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

I would take him for the 3 years and pray that at some point the Jets could find his replacement in the Draft.  Could have even signed him this year and drafted a guy like Lauletta in the 2nd.

Everyone loves Lauletta and hates Allen.  Isn't Lauletta a chicken arm?  Seems like people are planning on AJ McCarron going in the 2nd, only without the big school background and success on the big stage.

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What most of said is correct. The Jets DID offer more $$. That's what we said.     I'm thinking you must have a ton of extra time on your hands. lol
Didn't have to do anything - they've been talking about this for weeks on NFL radio, it's been drilled into my head. Imploring outraged Jets fans (and others) to stop saying the Jets offered more. Bringing in experts to corroborate what the hosts (FO people, coaches, players) are saying.

If you make $100k for a company in Houston, and you're moving from their office in Houston to their office in NYC, are doing it for the same $$ with no relocation $$ and thinking your not losing money?

So why do you think that a guy making millions and employing an agent, accountants and lawyers not consider this?
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On 3/20/2018 at 1:30 PM, Warfish said:

Then let me be clear:  There is no evaluation criteria in which Teddy Bridgewater was better in his first two years than Mark Sanchez was in his first three years.

You can hurf a blurf all you like if it suits you, but results do not lie.  Sanchez was better in literally every single way as an early prospect.

 

 

leaping-lemmings-o.gif

 

Bridgewater posted better CMP% (By an extremely large margin), better Rating (Once again by an extremely large margin), better TD-INT, lower interceptions, better Y/A, and it's not even close. Where in the world did you get that from?

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9 hours ago, Grandy said:

Bridgewater posted better CMP% (By an extremely large margin), better Rating (Once again by an extremely large margin), better TD-INT, lower interceptions, better Y/A, and it's not even close. Where in the world did you get that from?

Teddy was not better than Mark but Mark was really good early on.  Mark's career was derailed when we stripped all the talent around him.  whoever ends up being our QB we need to continually add talent for that QB to work w/ not just for the first 2-3 years like we did w/ Sanchez. Tom Brady can win w/ anyone, there's only 1 Tom Brady.  every QB besides Brady(and maybe Rodgers) needs a lot of talent around them to succeed.

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On 3/20/2018 at 11:28 AM, JiF said:

All I can say is, I've never been so indecisive and uncertain on a position group as I am this year with this QB class.  These dudes are all highly flawed both on and off the field and now we're staring at potentially the 3rd best of out what seems like a 4 horse race and the guy picking the QB has shown zero ability to identify talent at the QB position.

And then if blah blah blah was right about their "phone a friend" pick for Hack, I've legit never been so frightened of a pick in my life. 

Fear is good. Fear will purge your soul.  I wonder who this QB will be throwing to?  No doubt Robbie's judge will be a Dolphin fan.  Not to mention the fact that there is still plenty of time for him to do something even more stupid.  I was really hoping they signed a good wideout.

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20 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Pat Kirwan (who, as we know, was not a particularly good front-office exec) pointed out another interesting thing about signing Cousins.  Even if it worked out, if we didn't give him the long-term deal after year three, he could have forced us to franchise him (for 43 million guaranteed for one year) or walk.  If he was a young Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers, it's a no-brainer, but this guy simply is not good enough to justify that kinda dough, and even if he played well we might have only had him for three years.  I'm not sure how that works but Kirwan said that was a real number.

After 3 seasons starting no one had any idea Drew Brees would turn into Drew Brees, Cousins after 3 years starting was much better than Brees after 3 years starting.  w/ that said I would have liked him but not at the #s they were talking about signing him for.  It's more of a gamble w/ a young QB or Teddy but if either hits we have a much cheaper long term option at QB so we can spend in other areas.

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On 3/21/2018 at 12:16 AM, jetstream23 said:

The only disappointment I have about not signing Cousins is how it would have completely unlocked the Draft for the Jets.

Had they signed Cousins we'd have a bonafide starting caliber QB (a Top 10ish QB) for 3 years and we would have bought more time to find the next QB.  The Jets would also be drafting a STELLAR player at #6 with no need to move higher.  Given the expected early run on QBs the Jets would likely have finally solved their Edge rusher problem with B. Chubb, gotten a franchise altering RB in Barkley, or a potential HoF OG in Nelson.  They would also have come back in Round 2 with two very high picks.  Imagine Cousins standing behind Nelson at OG and Daniels at C, handing off to a guy like Ronald Jones or Nick Chubb.

That's the problem with not signing Cousins.  Instead, we've traded the #6, both 2nd's and a 2nd next year in the HOPES that the Jets land the right QB.  There's a huge difference....

  • QB Cousins, OG Nelson, C Daniels, RB Ronald Jones

-OR-

  • QB TBD with no NFL Experience

Just my perspective on where not signing Cousins has left us.

This. The only real reason I'm upset about not landing Cousins is this. We could have had a tangible and sustainable turnaround with this offseason if we were able to land Cousins because of the draft capital and cap space that we had going for us, given that we already have a young team.

Everything else is water under the bridge because Cousins wasn't going to come here. Fish can cry about how every man has a price, but there's an equilibrium point on that axis where Cousins' asking price is simply far too prohibitive a cost for the Jets.

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1 hour ago, greenwichjetfan said:

This. The only real reason I'm upset about not landing Cousins is this. We could have had a tangible and sustainable turnaround with this offseason if we were able to land Cousins because of the draft capital and cap space that we had going for us, given that we already have a young team.

Everything else is water under the bridge because Cousins wasn't going to come here. Fish can cry about how every man has a price, but there's an equilibrium point on that axis where Cousins' asking price is simply far too prohibitive a cost for the Jets.

Bingo!  With a rookie QB and several valuable, lost draft picks the Jets are at least 2-3 years from realistically being a very good team.  Had they signed Cousins, got a premier player at #6 and two other potential starters early in Round 2 this year the team could competing for playoffs almost immediately.  As I said earlier, imagine Cousins behind C Daniels, handing off to Ronald Jones.....oh, and we'd have a stud passrusher in B. Chubb forcing opposing QBs to throw the ball early into a Secondary that includes T. Johnson, Claiborne and our 2nd year Safeties.

Oh well, bring on the rookie QB.

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2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Bingo!  With a rookie QB and several valuable, lost draft picks the Jets are at least 2-3 years from realistically being a very good team.  Had they signed Cousins, got a premier player at #6 and two other potential starters early in Round 2 this year the team could competing for playoffs almost immediately.  As I said earlier, imagine Cousins behind C Daniels, handing off to Ronald Jones.....oh, and we'd have a stud passrusher in B. Chubb forcing opposing QBs to throw the ball early into a Secondary that includes T. Johnson, Claiborne and our 2nd year Safeties.

Oh well, bring on the rookie QB.

if the right decisions are made any team can go from awful to playoff caliber in an offseason so to say we are 2-3 years away isn't true.

Imagine all the players we have to cut b/c of Cousins, imagine trying to re-sign guys like Leonard Williams in the coming years when a QB eats up $30 mil of cap room.  Cousins is good, he's a guy you can win w/ if you put the right talent around him but he's not elite.  He's like an Eli Manning/Joe Flacco/Philip Rivers type and once those guys signed huge deals it prohibited their teams from surrounded them w/ enough talent to really compete. 

Sure we would have been better especially year 1 but what about year 2 and 3 and beyond?  IF we hit on a young QB(whether we get lucky w/ Teddy or the draft pick) then we will have an inexpensive QB for a bunch of years as we build a team around that QB. 

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On 3/20/2018 at 11:35 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

I don't understand the Cousins criticism. Virtually every anecdote, leak, and story suggests we were willing to pay more than anyone. He simply didn't want to come here.

If Macc was any good he would have built a time machine and changed history. Then Cousins would have played here for a discount.

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

if the right decisions are made any team can go from awful to playoff caliber in an offseason so to say we are 2-3 years away isn't true.

Imagine all the players we have to cut b/c of Cousins, imagine trying to re-sign guys like Leonard Williams in the coming years when a QB eats up $30 mil of cap room.  Cousins is good, he's a guy you can win w/ if you put the right talent around him but he's not elite.  He's like an Eli Manning/Joe Flacco/Philip Rivers type and once those guys signed huge deals it prohibited their teams from surrounded them w/ enough talent to really compete. 

Sure we would have been better especially year 1 but what about year 2 and 3 and beyond?  IF we hit on a young QB(whether we get lucky w/ Teddy or the draft pick) then we will have an inexpensive QB for a bunch of years as we build a team around that QB. 

You've identified the Jets biggest weakness. 

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