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Another athlete opinion: Phil Simms would take Josh Allen #1

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9 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I think many of convincing themselves he is good hoping browns take him. But Every Jet fan is going to jump up and cheer at the tv if browns or giants pick Allen lol.

Not EVERY Jet fan. lol

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Coach-Him-Up

That's the idea with Josh Allen.  He's a physical beast.  Some coaches, scouts and media folks like Phil Simms see a non-rapey Ben Roethlisberger.

Allen is big, has a cannon and is mobile. He's not a dick.  People think they can mold him into a QB because the measurables are great. 

Not saying that's a good way to evaluate, but that's obviously what's going on.  The choice in order would be Darnold, Rosen, Allen for me.

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23 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I hope you're not referring to me.  I have Allen as my 4th QB behind Darnold, Rosen and Mayfield.

I'm simply sharing a link and the perspective of Phil Simms.

And don't worry, we still have 5 weeks of this stuff to go! :D 

No, not you. Though this link only helps their cause lol.

18 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

I think many of convincing themselves he is good hoping browns take him. But Every Jet fan is going to jump up and cheer at the tv if browns or giants pick Allen lol.

You know..they very well might do that.

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2 minutes ago, Grandy said:

To be fair, it's only bad in hindsight. It was actually how the draft fell, and he was spot on about that.

To be fair? I said EJ Manuel would probably be the best qb in that class. He was picked first. What do I win lol?

all it shows was he was as wrong as the rest of the league 

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Simms and Boomer both think Allen should go number 1. I'm not sure if Boomer thinks Allen is the best QB or if he's just the QB he thinks the Browns will take. It's somewhat interesting I guess. I'm still not a fan. Give me Mayfield and i'll be ecstatic, but I can also live with Darnold or Rosen.

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1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

no, whats "disgustingly stupid" is posters having enough conviction about a guy that they start thinking its fact. you can have an opinion, but realize...ITS FOR FUN...you (more than) likely don't know jack about jack when it comes to grading a QB.

He won’t be good. You can come back in 4 years to this very thread and bow to me as God of QB evaluation. 

I’ll accept all apologies in form of checks/physical dollars.

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t understand why it’s considered so batsh*t crazy that some of us prefer Allen over Mayfield.

I still firmly believe that Darnold and Rosen are the Top 2 guys...but after them? It gets a bit murky.

And if I’m gambling on the 3rd/4th guy in this class...yeah, give me the one with the insane upside over the one who is a shade over 6’0 and has shown a tendency to do dumb sh*t both on and off the football field.

 

Fair enough.

I don’t like inaccurate QB’s though. Mayfield has a set of skills that appeal to me and give me something to put belief behind. Upside is something I always hear and it rarely gets fulfilled. That height doesn’t mean as much to me as much as the work that would need to be done for Allen to actually look OK. If you can’t throw it accurate in college where the windows of opportunity in completing a pass are a lot wider..hows it gonna look in the Pros?

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34 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Right. Just because a guy can play QB doesn’t mean he can see it in other’s if they can play or not. 

Jordan Palmer is one of the biggest after thoughts ever but now he is regarded as a “footwork/QB mechanics Guru”

he's done wonders for Hackenberg 

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50 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

But what does Phil know about drafting, developing and coaching QB's while managing a large diverse roster of talent and the cap compared to us?

FYP

For the record, it's easy for a TV talking head to say "I'd draft X, Y, or Z".  

They have no accountability, and no one will remember (or care) that they liked X, Y or Z.

Playing QB =/= Evaluating QB Prospects.  On the contrary, the best players make some of the poorest talent evaporators.

If that weren't the case, wouldn't EVERY NFL GM be an ex-NFL QB?

We're really ramping up the "Allen was really the clear cut best QB in this draft (but not because he's the QB who fell to us, nope!)" hype, eh?

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14 minutes ago, SMC said:

Coach-Him-Up

That's the idea with Josh Allen.  He's a physical beast.  Some coaches, scouts and media folks like Phil Simms see a non-rapey Ben Roethlisberger.

Allen is big, has a cannon and is mobile. He's not a dick.  People think they can mold him into a QB because the measurables are great. 

Not saying that's a good way to evaluate, but that's obviously what's going on.  The choice in order would be Darnold, Rosen, Allen for me.

Simms has an easy MO. Take the nice, biggest, strongest armed kid every time 

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2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

He won’t be good. You can come back in 4 years to this very thread and bow to me as God of QB evaluation. 

I’ll accept all apologies in form of checks/physical dollars.

he may not be good, i wont argue that...but he may be good...i dont think you or i or anyone here is qualified to make that judgement. its just a bunch of guys throwing sh*t at the wall, thats what this board is.

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48 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Meanwhile Allen lands in Buffalo, everyone initially laughs at them, and then Allen proceeds to drill it up our assh0les rain, sleet or snow for the next 15 years...

At least we’ll still have Baker’s “moxie” though...

The perenial Jets Fan Mantra "We MUST do this, or (insert rival here) will get him, and beat us!"

Nothing like living every moment in perpetual fear the Pats/Phins/Bills will steal our jerbs and beat us with them!

 

I bet if Cousins had been thinking of going to the Dolphins, THEN everyone here would have been all-in on signing him, lol.

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Just now, HessStation said:

Simms has an easy MO. Take the nice, biggest, strongest armed kid every time 

do u know what the success ratio is of 6'5 QB's with a cannon compared to 6 foot QB's with a water pistol is? its not a completely unfounded philosophy...one that many teams follow.

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Phil Simms cited Mark Sanchez's footwork as the best he had ever seen in a college athlete.

Was he wrong ? Possibly not for Dancing with the Stars. 

Phil makes some good, if somewhat isolated, points.

 

"Hello everybody, I have five days. I am not as averse to drafting Josh Allen as I once was".

Looking into football history, to me the bigger factor hinging on Josh Allen's success is where he lands, much like the other three qbs.

Comparing him to Kyle Boller in college is not legitimate, Kyle Boller was special bad... significantly worse than Christian Hackenberg in college.

Go back and compare Allen with Eli Manning's college record, Manning had one more year of college ball but equally uneven/medicore.

Manning sucked deflated footballs for 3+ years in the pros but the Giants drafted well on defense and were well coached with Coughlin. He turned the corner, got a little lucky and now has as many Super Bowls as his famous brother.

Josh Allen may be damaged goods from getting hammered too much behind a porous line in college. However put him behind an above average line, with a decent/patient coach who tailors a game to Allen's strengths... he's probably going to need talent around him.

 Sheee-it Aaron Rogers for all his other worldly talent, he has only managed one Super Bowl. The reason why the Jets have not won a Super Bowl has as much to do with scouting as coaching.

Are the Jets capable of surrounding Josh Allen with enough talent to win? Looking at the recent draft history of the Jets front office, I would have to say no, they are unlikely to be able to put it all together. Mike McCagnan is a very nice man, which is about the best you can say about him.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, SMC said:

Coach-Him-Up

That's the idea with Josh Allen.  He's a physical beast.  Some coaches, scouts and media folks like Phil Simms see a non-rapey Ben Roethlisberger.

Allen is big, has a cannon and is mobile. He's not a dick.  People think they can mold him into a QB because the measurables are great. 

Not saying that's a good way to evaluate, but that's obviously what's going on.  The choice in order would be Darnold, Rosen, Allen for me.

Maybe they see him as equally rapey ... Just with horses instead of women ... So no worry about it being disclosed after the draft 

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8 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

do u know what the success ratio is of 6'5 QB's with a cannon compared to 6 foot QB's with a water pistol is? its not a completely unfounded philosophy...one that many teams follow.

Apples and oranges, but obviously the fail rate on 6'5 rocket arms is extremely high. 

 

And in actuality, when given a fair chance the shorter QBs have had a pretty good success rate, however based off a much smaller pool.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

What are the odds that Phil Sims has seen 2 seconds of Josh Allen play football? 

Very good, Phil Simms is a film junky.... He watches film as a hobby all year round.  There is a very good chance he has seen every throw that these QBs have thrown.  I wouldn't dismiss him that fast. Boomer also thinks Allen will go #1. 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

What are the odds that Phil Sims has seen 2 seconds of Josh Allen play football? 

Honestly I would bet Phil has seen more film on these QBs than all the posters here combined.  And Phil actually understands what he's watching. 

Boomer in the mornings is always talking about Phil being a film junkie. 

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7 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

Phil Simms cited Mark Sanchez's footwork as the best he had ever seen in a college athlete.

Was he wrong ? Possibly not for Dancing with the Stars. 

Phil makes some good, if somewhat isolated, points.

 

Going into the Steelers AFCCG, we all thought Sanchez had the makings of a star.  Don't fall for revisionist history.  Sanchez just beat Peyton and Brady in back-to-back weeks.  Or how about that 1 minute comeback with no TOs against the Texans that same season. He was brilliant in that 4th quarter and screamed having "It" then

Things fell apart for Sanchez for a variety of reasons (including off-the-field issues), so it's not like Phil was wrong in his assessment.

As to Phill's other takes, Hess is right about the big, strong armed QBs.  Phil was one of them in his time.  He believes in that mold. Peyton, Brady, Big Ben are in that mold as well.  That's a preference.

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The perenial Jets Fan Mantra "We MUST do this, or (insert rival here) will get him, and beat us!"

Nothing like living every moment in perpetual fear the Pats/Phins/Bills will steal our jerbs and beat us with them!

 

I bet if Cousins had been thinking of going to the Dolphins, THEN everyone here would have been all-in on signing him, lol.

Oh, when it comes to the Pats signing one of our castoffs like LaMont Jordan, Leon Washington, Victor Hobson, Chris Baker, Shaun Ellis, etc and Jets fans sh*tting their pantaloons over the possibility of the Pats turning then into stars...I’m right there with you.

This? This is different. We’re talking about a potential franchise QB for the next 12-15 years. Complete franchise-altering sh*t.

If the Bills ended up walking away with Allen and we get Mayfield, I’d at least be excited that we possibly solved our QB situation for the next decade. But in the back of my mind...yes, some doubt will have crept in. Regardless of whether you like Allen or not, to deny his upside is just dumb. He has the most raw potential of any QB in this draft or in recent memory. He could turn out to be a bust, or he could be an Elway/Roethlisberger with the skills to carry an offense on his back if need be.

And with the Jets giving up multiple picks to get to #3, I say go big or go home.

 

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5 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

If the Browns take Allen 1# I may just c#m in my pants. Also the rest of the league may offer The Giants their whole draft to move up.

Don't be surprised if the the draft goes Allen and Barkley 1 & 2.  The question then will be how quickly Macc's head will explode.

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1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

Oh, when it comes to the Pats signing one of our castoffs like LaMont Jordan, Leon Washington, Victor Hobson, Chris Baker, Shaun Ellis, etc and Jets fans sh*tting their pantaloons over the possibility of the Pats turning then into stars...I’m right there with you.

I thought you were, hence why I was a bit surprised....

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

This? This is different. We’re talking about a potential franchise QB for the next 12-15 years.

Or, statistically more likely, a potential bust/JAG.  But sure.

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

If the Bills ended up walking away with Allen and we get Mayfield, I’d at least be excited that we possibly solved our QB situation for the next decade. But in the back of my mind...yes, some doubt will have crept in. Regardless of whether you like Allen or not, to deny his upside is just dumb. He has the most raw potential of any QB in this draft or in recent memory. He could turn out to be a bust, or he could be an Elway/Roethlisberger with the skills to carry an offense on his back if need be.

Each of the top five guys (including Jackson) have legit potential and upside.

Each of the top five guys (including Jackson) comes with some massive flaws and risks.  Really obvious ones.

1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

And with the Jets giving up multiple picks to get to #3, I say go big or go home.

Well, having already traded three #2's, I know there is a meaningfully large contingent here at JN who want to trade an additional 4-6 picks (based on the Chicago 3->2 trade cost est.) to now move up to #2.

I feel like this is crazypants, but /shrug.

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