Another athlete opinion: Phil Simms would take Josh Allen #1

[k-met57]

Chris Sims put our his latest ranking for bleacher report. Its a long listen but there is really good content.

notes (from what i remember):

- rankings go: Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold

- doesnt get the Darnold at 1 or 2 talk, mobile and can get out of situations, but creates some of the situations himself, too quick to break to pocket if first read is not available

- says the Darnold thing to Cleveland is mostly because they all have USC ties

- mayfield, thinks he and lamar are close, foresee some issues with standing in the pocket

- did say he knows bates and mayfield is his kind of guy

- Allen, best QB in the draft. thinks completion percentage isnt as relevant because he mostly threw down the field. needs to learn how to throw check downs, and short touch throws

- Like everything about Rosen except for his lack of mobility and the fact that people have told him that they think Rosen is a douche

- Lamar, likes him on the field...big off the field concern...said his agent is his mom and literally no one has been able to get in touch with him since the combine

should note that he had Carr and Jimmy G at the top of the draft few years ago...

 

[tfine]

He has the same height, build and arm as Hackenberg......therefore he sucks....that reminds me, I am the same height and weight as Wayne Chrebet I am packing my bags to go tryout for the Jets..you may now address me as “mr 3rd down” 2.0


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[Philc1]

Seriously tho what the heck would Phil Simms know about the qb position?

[MDL_JET]

1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

Chris Sims put our his latest ranking for bleacher report. Its a long listen but there is really good content.

notes (from what i remember):

- rankings go: Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold

- doesnt get the Darnold at 1 or 2 talk, mobile and can get out of situations, but creates some of the situations himself, too quick to break to pocket if first read is not available

- says the Darnold thing to Cleveland is mostly because they all have USC ties

- mayfield, thinks he and lamar are close, foresee some issues with standing in the pocket

- did say he knows bates and mayfield is his kind of guy

- Allen, best QB in the draft. thinks completion percentage isnt as relevant because he mostly threw down the field. needs to learn how to throw check downs, and short touch throws

- Like everything about Rosen except for his lack of mobility and the fact that people have told him that they think Rosen is a douche

- Lamar, likes him on the field...big off the field concern...said his agent is his mom and literally no one has been able to get in touch with him since the combine

should note that he had Carr and Jimmy G at the top of the draft few years ago...

 

I really think it's between Rosen and Mayfield. And his comments about knowing Bates and thinks Mayfield is his kinda guy just pushes that notion. Not the first time i've heard that. 

And watching this just makes me more tossed up on Josh Allen. He could become something great but scares the hell out of me for the Jets to be taking that chance. 

[k-met57]

39 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

I really think it's between Rosen and Mayfield. And his comments about knowing Bates and thinks Mayfield is his kinda guy just pushes that notion. Not the first time i've heard that. 

And watching this just makes me more tossed up on Josh Allen. He could become something great but scares the hell out of me for the Jets to be taking that chance. 

u have to be able to take a chance man. the Steelers took a QB from Miami of Ohio in round 1...

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, tfine said:

He has the same height, build and arm as Hackenberg......therefore he sucks....that reminds me, I am the same height and weight as Wayne Chrebet I am packing my bags to go tryout for the Jets..you may now address me as “mr 3rd down” 2.0


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

 

2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Seriously tho what the heck would Phil Simms know about the qb position?

It's just a few posters that have concluded that the only metric to judge a QB is by his comp pct in college.  

[Adoni Beast]

On 3/22/2018 at 10:58 PM, Mogglez said:

It's funny that you mentioned Mahomes, because now that I've been watching Allen far more extensively over the course of the off-season, that is who I am starting to see him mirror as a prospect, except he has experience in a pro system.  I'd definitely say that it's a far better comp than Hackenberg at this point, which I originally had him pegged as.  However, Hackenberg prematurely ejaculates over making the throws Allen does.  They're totally different guys in both their flaws and strengths, something I didn't think I'd find myself admitting this late in the game.  Allen has more than his fair share of throws like the one above on his tape.  Hack didn't.

All in all, I get why there is the hype.  I really do.  When you watch the kid, you start to dream about how awesome it could be seeing him thread absolute lasers in the hands of Enunwa, Anderson, and Kearse (I guess Pryor now too). I just don't want to worry about the development of the guy.  I've spent my whole life as a fan worried about the "potential" of someone.  I don't want that anymore.  I want the polished kid.  The Matt Ryan.  The Matt Stafford.  The Andrew Luck.  The Jared Goff.  Now?  The Josh Rosen.  I can live with taking Rosen, passing on Allen, and having "Goff over Wentz" if they both pan out.  I don't know if I could swallow the pill of passing on the Matt Stafford (Rosen) of this year's draft for something that is "potentially" nothing more than a slightly better player when you really look at em.  Yeah, Big Ben with Cams athleticism is something to drool over, but when there is a good chance that you never see that and are left with something totally unknown vs the, borderline, sure thing...is it worth it?  I mean, going back to Stafford (who I compare Rosen to quite a bit), would you rather have him or Cam?  Most people could probably make intensely strong arguments for both, but that's where my issue is.  How far apart are they?  Is potentially bombing out and ending up with absolutely nothing worth the small difference in what they bring to the table as QBs?  Ultimately, I don't think so.  Not when you have gone as long as we have without a QB.  I spit vitriol about not supporting him if he's the pick and I'm wrong.  I wouldn't be able to help myself.  I just don't want to even worry about it.  Just take Rosen if he's there and give me some piece of mind.  That's all I'm asking for at this point.

If the choice is between Rosen and Allen. There is no choice. As you said, Rosen is ready and he’s going to be a great player.

Allen vs. Mayfield I was saying Mayfield, but after watching and reading as much about Allen as is available, I think the pick has to be Allen. His potential is absolutely insane. 

I think Mayfield can be a FQB, but mid tier. That’s his ceiling.

While Allen has a lower basement to bust, he has no ceiling. If it all came together for him, he’d take over every game he was in.

 

[FidelioJet]

5 hours ago, k-met57 said:

Chris Sims put our his latest ranking for bleacher report. Its a long listen but there is really good content.

notes (from what i remember):

- rankings go: Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold

- doesnt get the Darnold at 1 or 2 talk, mobile and can get out of situations, but creates some of the situations himself, too quick to break to pocket if first read is not available

- says the Darnold thing to Cleveland is mostly because they all have USC ties

- mayfield, thinks he and lamar are close, foresee some issues with standing in the pocket

- did say he knows bates and mayfield is his kind of guy

- Allen, best QB in the draft. thinks completion percentage isnt as relevant because he mostly threw down the field. needs to learn how to throw check downs, and short touch throws

- Like everything about Rosen except for his lack of mobility and the fact that people have told him that they think Rosen is a douche

- Lamar, likes him on the field...big off the field concern...said his agent is his mom and literally no one has been able to get in touch with him since the combine

should note that he had Carr and Jimmy G at the top of the draft few years ago...

 

Sounds like Chris Simms - loves Allen (listed 1) and Jackson (listed 5)

and hates the other 3..that's what I took away listening to that.

[nycdan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nflvideos/scouts-break-down-aplus-talent-of-josh-allen-move-the-sticks-nfl-360/vp-AAvfQKL?ocid=spartanntp

This is a positive take on Allen.  Mayfield supporters should probably not watch.

[56mehl56]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

Friend of mine banged Kotites daughter when they were both students at Hofstra. True story.

Did she gave 60 hard minutes

[FidelioJet]

18 minutes ago, nycdan said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nflvideos/scouts-break-down-aplus-talent-of-josh-allen-move-the-sticks-nfl-360/vp-AAvfQKL?ocid=spartanntp

This is a positive take on Allen.  Mayfield supporters should probably not watch.

If for some lucky reason Allen isn't there the Jets would be crazy to pass on him.  He will be the best QB in this draft...

If not Allen then def. Mayfield.

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

If for some lucky reason Allen isn't there the Jets would be crazy to pass on him.  He will be the best QB in this draft...

If not Allen then def. Mayfield.

I gotta say,  I was leaning his way before, but watching this video, I'm on team Allen.  I wouldn't hate Mayfield if that's how things work out, but I think Allen has a better chance to be really good than many here give him credit for.  A lot of that is based on his late start in football, which means he has a lot of catching up to do on the learning curve.  And then there's his chart-busting toolset.  If he can put it together, his ceiling is enormous.  And the thought of him landing in BUF's lap and becoming our next 15-year nemesis is just lurking in the back of my brain.  I don't have that same concern about Mayfield, who I think caps out at maybe being a very good QB, but not a monster.

Yeah, I know this is an unpopular opinion here, and lots of people have already written Allen off.  But the fact that nearly every evaluator in the business is high on him, some to the point of saying he's the top guy in this class, I am sipping the Kool-Aid.  And if he goes ahead of us, meaning Darnold or Rosen drop to us, that's fine too.  #3 feels like a pretty good spot to be right now.

[HessStation]

3 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Friend of mine banged Kotites daughter when they were both students at Hofstra. True story.

I banged Mo Vaughn's girlfriend, true story

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I gotta say,  I was leaning his way before, but watching this video, I'm on team Allen.  I wouldn't hate Mayfield if that's how things work out, but I think Allen has a better chance to be really good than many here give him credit for.  A lot of that is based on his late start in football, which means he has a lot of catching up to do on the learning curve.  And then there's his chart-busting toolset.  If he can put it together, his ceiling is enormous.  And the thought of him landing in BUF's lap and becoming our next 15-year nemesis is just lurking in the back of my brain.  I don't have that same concern about Mayfield, who I think caps out at maybe being a very good QB, but not a monster.

Yeah, I know this is an unpopular opinion here, and lots of people have already written Allen off.  But the fact that nearly every evaluator in the business is high on him, some to the point of saying he's the top guy in this class, I am sipping the Kool-Aid.  And if he goes ahead of us, meaning Darnold or Rosen drop to us, that's fine too.  #3 feels like a pretty good spot to be right now.

I agree with this - they ALL love him - and this is what got me to go and look at this guys film a bit more ---- he really is impressive - when you watch him play his arm is on an entirely different level - and he definitely hits spots....Seems like he needs to learn to check down and throw a swing pass but I also saw him put balls into tight windows - when a guy wa "NFL Open" meaning barely open and only for a split second - one of those throw that only a guy with that arm strenght can get in...

Honestly, I just don't see him getting to 3. 

[ZachEY]

https://nypost.com/2014/02/27/phil-simms-jets-geno-better-than-any-qb-in-this-years-draft/

Phil Simms: Jets’ Geno better than any QB in this year’s draft

Modal Trigger

Geno Smith, Johnny Manziel, Teddy BridgewaterJoseph E. Amaturo, Getty Images, Getty Images

The Jets shouldn’t worry about drafting a quarterback because Phil Simms believes that the one they have – Geno Smith – would be the top quarterback on this year’s board.

In picking apart the top QBs in the coming draft, such as Louisville’s Teddy Bridgewater, Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel and Central Florida’s Blake Bortles, Simms said Smith would be at the top of his list if he were still at West Virginia.

“If you’re the New York Jets you’ve got to sit there and go, ‘Wow, good thing we made a move last year and we didn’t wait until this year,’” Simms said Wednesday on SiriusXM’s Mad Dog Sports Radio channel with Adam Schein. “My first thought is just physically and how he played at the end of the year I would be pretty happy going, ‘Man, all right, we got a guy.’ I think if Geno Smith was in this draft class he would be the number one guy, without question.”

Simms had a close look at Smith as he was playing ahead of his son, Matt, with the Jets. Matt replaced Smith at halftime in a 23-3 Week 13 loss to the Dolphins briefly sparking a quarterback controversy, but Smith played his best football after the benching.

Simms poked holes in all the top quarterbacks and said there may not be a true franchise quarterback out there. He said Bridgewater has a “middle of the pack” arm for the NFL, questioned Manziel’s explosiveness and arm strength and picked apart Bortles’ throwing motion and sub-par 40-yard dash time.

Simms said Manziel’s playground-style ways “worries” him because it will likely get him injured. He also shot down the comparison to Seahawks Super Bowl-winning quarterback Russell Wilson.

“Russell Wilson is more explosive,” Simms said. “He’s naturally bigger and stronger than Johnny Manziel. They’re not even close in arm strength.”

Usually at this time of the year, Simms says there is one quarterback who sets himself apart. But that isn’t the case right now.

“Usually my first instinct – every once in a while I do back up and go, ‘Oh, boy, I should have watched more film on him before I opened my big mouth’ – but, no, my first thought is none of them jump out at me saying,

‘This is the guy. If I had to pick a quarterback first, this is the one I would take,’” he said.

-----------------------

Jimmy Garropolo and David Carr also from this draft.

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree with this - they ALL love him - and this is what got me to go and look at this guys film a bit more ---- he really is impressive - when you watch him play his arm is on an entirely different level - and he definitely hits spots....Seems like he needs to learn to check down and throw a swing pass but I also saw him put balls into tight windows - when a guy wa "NFL Open" meaning barely open and only for a split second - one of those throw that only a guy with that arm strenght can get in...

Honestly, I just don't see him getting to 3. 

That's okay.  If we land any of Darnold/Rosen/Allen, I think we have accomplished what we needed to.  We got our potential franchise QB.  However, if we take Mayfield over any of them because he's a better fit for the WCO...well I'm not sure how I'll feel about that.

[ZachEY]

Phil Simms says Jared Goff is the third-best QB in this year's NFL Draft

Should Jared Goff be taken with one of the top two picks?

• 

• by John Breech
•  @johnbreech
• Apr 24, 2016 • 3 min read
•  

Phil Simms knows a thing or two about playing quarterback. Before joining the announcing team at CBS in 1998, Simms spent 14 years as a quarterback for the New York Giants. 

The CBS announcer has been keeping his eye on this year's crop of quarterbacks and like most people, he's a big fan of Carson Wentz. However, unlike most people, Simms doesn't see Jared Goff as the second-best quarterback in the draft. 

During a recent interview CBS Sports Network's Time to Schein, Simms revealed the three quarterbacks at the top of his draft board.

"If I had to rank them, just where I see them down the road in the NFL, it would be Wentz, Paxton Lynch, Jared Goff," Simms told host Adam Schein. 

It's easy to see why Simms likes Wentz: Both came out of a small school. Simms was a first-round pick out of Morehead State in 1979. Simms also added that the the size of the school that a quarterback attended doesn't necessarily matter when it comes to a player's draft status.

"I'm not drafting the team and I'm not drafting the coach, I'm drafting him," Simms said.  

Although Simms has Goff ranked at No. 3, he did admit that his opinion might change if he were able to throw the football with each one of the prospects.  

"It’s always tough to [rank them]," Simms said. "Would I love to throw with them in person and see them one time to get a great feel for what they're natural ability is? Yes. I say this to you right now, Jon Gruden, I'm jealous every time I watch him with a quarterback on TV."

Simms says that Gruden gains two big advantages when he deals with the quarterbacks in person. 

"There's two things, you can see the skill right away, but you can feel the personality and the person," Simms said. 

Putting Lynch ahead of Goff isn't the only surprise on Simms' draft board, the two-time Super Bowl winner is also high on another quarterback. 

"My next one [after Goff at three], I would take Kevin Hogan of Stanford before I would take Christian Hackenberg or Connor Cook," Simms said. "I would have them ahead of those guys because watching him play, he's fairly mobile, he's been taught well, he's a good decision maker and he kind of runs a pro-offense now."

As far as putting Lynch ahead of Goff, Simms explained that in a separate interview. 

"I think he's extremely talented," Simms told Colin Cowherd. "I think he has borderline-superstar qualities. His arm -- it's a good motion.  One thing I always say about quarterbacks, if you've got a good motion, you can see they’re natural throwers, they can get better in the NFL. In other words, he can improve his quality of throwing. I've seen it with many, many guys. Ben Roethlisberger, I saw it with Aaron Rodgers, I see it with Tony Romo. Tom Brady this past year maybe threw the football better than he's ever thrown it in his career physically."

Lynch actually seems to be one of the biggest mysteries in the draft.

Of our five mock drafts here at CBSSports.com, the Memphis quarterback is slotted to go anywhere from No. 7 (to the 49ers) to No. 31 (to the Broncos). It's worth noting that all five mock drafts have Lynch going in the first round. 

Simms' rankings probably won't sit well with Vernon Adams. The Oregon quarterback says he's the second-best QB in the draft, ahead of both Lynch and Goff.

Simm's ranking probably won't sit well with the Rams either because as of right now, most NFL teams believe that Goff to Los Angeles is a 'done deal.' 

[southparkcpa]

Look ...we got MAC and he CLEARLY knows how to judge a QB.  

We're gonna be set for the next 10 years.

[legler82]

7 hours ago, k-met57 said:

Chris Sims put our his latest ranking for bleacher report. Its a long listen but there is really good content.

notes (from what i remember):

- rankings go: Allen, Rosen, Mayfield, Jackson, Darnold

- doesnt get the Darnold at 1 or 2 talk, mobile and can get out of situations, but creates some of the situations himself, too quick to break to pocket if first read is not available

- says the Darnold thing to Cleveland is mostly because they all have USC ties

- mayfield, thinks he and lamar are close, foresee some issues with standing in the pocket

- did say he knows bates and mayfield is his kind of guy

- Allen, best QB in the draft. thinks completion percentage isnt as relevant because he mostly threw down the field. needs to learn how to throw check downs, and short touch throws

- Like everything about Rosen except for his lack of mobility and the fact that people have told him that they think Rosen is a douche

- Lamar, likes him on the field...big off the field concern...said his agent is his mom and literally no one has been able to get in touch with him since the combine

should note that he had Carr and Jimmy G at the top of the draft few years ago...

 

He also had Mahomes as his #1 rated QB last year and Wentz before that. 

[predator_05]

Great players don't always make great analysts. They're good at discussing football in relation to their experiences, but player evaluation or analysis? That requires a little more.

 

Simms is looking at Allen from the perspective of a spectator, he is no different from the rest of us.

[peebag]

7 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Friend of mine banged Kotites daughter when they were both students at Hofstra. True story.

I bet she came in last.

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

 

It's just a few posters that have concluded that the only metric to judge a QB is by his comp pct in college.  

Then Geno Smith should be making NFL Pro Bowls

[Philc1]

6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Phil Simms says Jared Goff is the third-best QB in this year's NFL Draft

Should Jared Goff be taken with one of the top two picks?

• 

• by John Breech
•  @johnbreech
• Apr 24, 2016 • 3 min read
•  

Phil Simms knows a thing or two about playing quarterback. Before joining the announcing team at CBS in 1998, Simms spent 14 years as a quarterback for the New York Giants. 

The CBS announcer has been keeping his eye on this year's crop of quarterbacks and like most people, he's a big fan of Carson Wentz. However, unlike most people, Simms doesn't see Jared Goff as the second-best quarterback in the draft. 

During a recent interview CBS Sports Network's Time to Schein, Simms revealed the three quarterbacks at the top of his draft board.

"If I had to rank them, just where I see them down the road in the NFL, it would be Wentz, Paxton Lynch, Jared Goff," Simms told host Adam Schein. 

It's easy to see why Simms likes Wentz: Both came out of a small school. Simms was a first-round pick out of Morehead State in 1979. Simms also added that the the size of the school that a quarterback attended doesn't necessarily matter when it comes to a player's draft status.

"I'm not drafting the team and I'm not drafting the coach, I'm drafting him," Simms said.  

Although Simms has Goff ranked at No. 3, he did admit that his opinion might change if he were able to throw the football with each one of the prospects.  

"It’s always tough to [rank them]," Simms said. "Would I love to throw with them in person and see them one time to get a great feel for what they're natural ability is? Yes. I say this to you right now, Jon Gruden, I'm jealous every time I watch him with a quarterback on TV."

Simms says that Gruden gains two big advantages when he deals with the quarterbacks in person. 

"There's two things, you can see the skill right away, but you can feel the personality and the person," Simms said. 

Putting Lynch ahead of Goff isn't the only surprise on Simms' draft board, the two-time Super Bowl winner is also high on another quarterback. 

"My next one [after Goff at three], I would take Kevin Hogan of Stanford before I would take Christian Hackenberg or Connor Cook," Simms said. "I would have them ahead of those guys because watching him play, he's fairly mobile, he's been taught well, he's a good decision maker and he kind of runs a pro-offense now."

As far as putting Lynch ahead of Goff, Simms explained that in a separate interview. 

"I think he's extremely talented," Simms told Colin Cowherd. "I think he has borderline-superstar qualities. His arm -- it's a good motion.  One thing I always say about quarterbacks, if you've got a good motion, you can see they’re natural throwers, they can get better in the NFL. In other words, he can improve his quality of throwing. I've seen it with many, many guys. Ben Roethlisberger, I saw it with Aaron Rodgers, I see it with Tony Romo. Tom Brady this past year maybe threw the football better than he's ever thrown it in his career physically."

Lynch actually seems to be one of the biggest mysteries in the draft.

Of our five mock drafts here at CBSSports.com, the Memphis quarterback is slotted to go anywhere from No. 7 (to the 49ers) to No. 31 (to the Broncos). It's worth noting that all five mock drafts have Lynch going in the first round. 

Simms' rankings probably won't sit well with Vernon Adams. The Oregon quarterback says he's the second-best QB in the draft, ahead of both Lynch and Goff.

Simm's ranking probably won't sit well with the Rams either because as of right now, most NFL teams believe that Goff to Los Angeles is a 'done deal.' 

Turns out he was right just sub in Dak Prescott’s name for Paxton Lynch

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, nycdan said:

I gotta say,  I was leaning his way before, but watching this video, I'm on team Allen.  I wouldn't hate Mayfield if that's how things work out, but I think Allen has a better chance to be really good than many here give him credit for.  A lot of that is based on his late start in football, which means he has a lot of catching up to do on the learning curve.  And then there's his chart-busting toolset.  If he can put it together, his ceiling is enormous.  And the thought of him landing in BUF's lap and becoming our next 15-year nemesis is just lurking in the back of my brain.  I don't have that same concern about Mayfield, who I think caps out at maybe being a very good QB, but not a monster.

Yeah, I know this is an unpopular opinion here, and lots of people have already written Allen off.  But the fact that nearly every evaluator in the business is high on him, some to the point of saying he's the top guy in this class, I am sipping the Kool-Aid.  And if he goes ahead of us, meaning Darnold or Rosen drop to us, that's fine too.  #3 feels like a pretty good spot to be right now.

It's not just you. I keep going from one to the other as well. Any opinion is based on what others say, since I'm simply not going to spend dozens of hours truly watching and rewinding play after play from each of the top 4 QBs. It would take away too much time from JN essay-writing, lol.

My #1 concern with Allen isn't the lack of past success (or I should say isn't only the lack of past success). It's that I have the puniest amount of faith that this team has what it takes to turn him into a consistently accurate and well-rounded QB, not merely a cannon who can launch artillery so powerfully it can breach a stone wall. No doubt, if that can be done, the only thing that'll stop him are freak injuries that can hit anyone of any size. Is this the place that's going to happen (if it can happen at all)? Regarding the accuracy, is it really that he threw so few easy dumpoffs and launched a disproportionate # of passes downfield? Or is that a little overblown, and the main reason the comp% was lower is simply the throws were off target (or not on-target enough). 

Darnold... yeah he seems to be #1 for so many because he's seen as the one with the fewest flies buzzing around him. Reading C.Simms' comments - assuming they have real validity - if a lot of the difficult situations he had were self-induced, it's as big a concern as Allen's lower completion percentage due in no small part to the lack of checkdowns. Truth is a lot of the discussion is academic for the Jets, since he's unlikely to reach #3 anyway; he's supposedly #1 (or no lower than #2) on both the Browns' and Giants' big boards. 

Rosen seems to be the best-rounded among the bunch; the guy who has displayed enough of everything, and who needs the least coaching help to be a top 5 QB. That's an attractive plus, particularly because Jets. Past history of multiple concussions are real concerns, especially since we don't exactly have the 7 (or 5, or even 1-2) blocks of granite protecting our QBs, or how many more minor concussions he had that even he wasn't aware of and never got really checked. Continuing his career in the NFL against bigger and faster and better defenders, he will get hit hard to the point where his neck snaps suddenly, shaking the contents of the appendage above it; he will get his helmet driven into the turf, or into a second defender coming at him from the opposite side; he will take head-to-head hits. These things happen to all QBs. The #1 risk of future concussions seems to be past history of concussions; football is a high-risk concussion sport to begin with, so within that group some are more or less prone to them, and he's demonstrated to be among the former. What are we going to do in short yardage, remove the QB sneak from the playbook? 

Mayfield's upside is hopefully his accuracy develops as it did for Brees (which is plenty high), only with a naturally stronger arm; that, combined with instincts of when to keep on a receiver who's about to get open, and when to shift gaze quickly to others so he doesn't waste 2-3 seconds of a play staring down a covered target. Has he done that? I don't know; I keep hearing he's throwing to all these wide open receivers (especially his primary read), and that'd seem to be poor training for working through progressions as the competition gets far tougher.  The height doesn't bother me as much as some, and I'm sure he's got enough of an arm strength even if it isn't elite (the radar readings are nice, but that could be he uses the rest of his body more effectively than others, so they don't necessarily simulate game-velocity when he's rolling out and can't set his feet the same, or throwing off his back foot more because he needs that extra couple inches of height to see over the lines better. Regardless, I'm sure he can throw hard enough to be a top 10 QB if the rest of his game is sound. 

I find myself rooting for the guy with the highest floor than the highest ceiling because of a lack of trust. Hackenberg may have been a terrible draft pick, but is/was he really so bad that they couldn't even use him in garbage time? Or is this staff so hopeless in developing rawer prospects - even with Josh McMentor on the roster - that they couldn't even get him to not crap himself in limited action with a more limited playbook (the defense doesn't know which plays they've removed). Same for Petty. No, neither is the prospect Allen is, but the dramatic failures of them both speaks so poorly for this crew developing inaccurate prospects into accurate ones (particularly in live action). 

So that's my concern with Allen, as exciting as it would be to have someone with his raw gifts, if he could put it all together. It's not that he's always going to be inaccurate; it's that is this really the place to fix that? Could be, but history suggests otherwise. 

[nycdan]

13 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's not just you. I keep going from one to the other as well. Any opinion is based on what others say, since I'm simply not going to spend dozens of hours truly watching and rewinding play after play from each of the top 4 QBs. It would take away too much time from JN essay-writing, lol.

My #1 concern with Allen isn't the lack of past success (or I should say isn't only the lack of past success). It's that I have the puniest amount of faith that this team has what it takes to turn him into a consistently accurate and well-rounded QB, not merely a cannon who can launch artillery so powerfully it can breach a stone wall. No doubt, if that can be done, the only thing that'll stop him are freak injuries that can hit anyone of any size. Is this the place that's going to happen (if it can happen at all)? Regarding the accuracy, is it really that he threw so few easy dumpoffs and launched a disproportionate # of passes downfield? Or is that a little overblown, and the main reason the comp% was lower is simply the throws were off target (or not on-target enough). 

Darnold... yeah he seems to be #1 for so many because he's seen as the one with the fewest flies buzzing around him. Reading C.Simms' comments - assuming they have real validity - if a lot of the difficult situations he had were self-induced, it's as big a concern as Allen's lower completion percentage due in no small part to the lack of checkdowns. Truth is a lot of the discussion is academic for the Jets, since he's unlikely to reach #3 anyway; he's supposedly #1 (or no lower than #2) on both the Browns' and Giants' big boards. 

Rosen seems to be the best-rounded among the bunch; the guy who has displayed enough of everything, and who needs the least coaching help to be a top 5 QB. That's an attractive plus, particularly because Jets. Past history of multiple concussions are real concerns, especially since we don't exactly have the 7 (or 5, or even 1-2) blocks of granite protecting our QBs, or how many more minor concussions he had that even he wasn't aware of and never got really checked. Continuing his career in the NFL against bigger and faster and better defenders, he will get hit hard to the point where his neck snaps suddenly, shaking the contents of the appendage above it; he will get his helmet driven into the turf, or into a second defender coming at him from the opposite side; he will take head-to-head hits. These things happen to all QBs. The #1 risk of future concussions seems to be past history of concussions; football is a high-risk concussion sport to begin with, so within that group some are more or less prone to them, and he's demonstrated to be among the former. What are we going to do in short yardage, remove the QB sneak from the playbook? 

Mayfield's upside is hopefully his accuracy develops as it did for Brees (which is plenty high), only with a naturally stronger arm; that, combined with instincts of when to keep on a receiver who's about to get open, and when to shift gaze quickly to others so he doesn't waste 2-3 seconds of a play staring down a covered target. Has he done that? I don't know; I keep hearing he's throwing to all these wide open receivers (especially his primary read), and that'd seem to be poor training for working through progressions as the competition gets far tougher.  The height doesn't bother me as much as some, and I'm sure he's got enough of an arm strength even if it isn't elite (the radar readings are nice, but that could be he uses the rest of his body more effectively than others, so they don't necessarily simulate game-velocity when he's rolling out and can't set his feet the same, or throwing off his back foot more because he needs that extra couple inches of height to see over the lines better. Regardless, I'm sure he can throw hard enough to be a top 10 QB if the rest of his game is sound. 

I find myself rooting for the guy with the highest floor than the highest ceiling because of a lack of trust. Hackenberg may have been a terrible draft pick, but is/was he really so bad that they couldn't even use him in garbage time? Or is this staff so hopeless in developing rawer prospects - even with Josh McMentor on the roster - that they couldn't even get him to not crap himself in limited action with a more limited playbook (the defense doesn't know which plays they've removed). Same for Petty. No, neither is the prospect Allen is, but the dramatic failures of them both speaks so poorly for this crew developing inaccurate prospects into accurate ones (particularly in live action). 

So that's my concern with Allen, as exciting as it would be to have someone with his raw gifts, if he could put it all together. It's not that he's always going to be inaccurate; it's that is this really the place to fix that? Could be, but history suggests otherwise. 

This is literally the perfect response.  I can't do any better...

Seriously, I like everything you said.  It's just that Allen's arm is so shiny!...

[Adoni Beast]

31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It's not just you. I keep going from one to the other as well. Any opinion is based on what others say, since I'm simply not going to spend dozens of hours truly watching and rewinding play after play from each of the top 4 QBs. It would take away too much time from JN essay-writing, lol.

My #1 concern with Allen isn't the lack of past success (or I should say isn't only the lack of past success). It's that I have the puniest amount of faith that this team has what it takes to turn him into a consistently accurate and well-rounded QB, not merely a cannon who can launch artillery so powerfully it can breach a stone wall. No doubt, if that can be done, the only thing that'll stop him are freak injuries that can hit anyone of any size. Is this the place that's going to happen (if it can happen at all)? Regarding the accuracy, is it really that he threw so few easy dumpoffs and launched a disproportionate # of passes downfield? Or is that a little overblown, and the main reason the comp% was lower is simply the throws were off target (or not on-target enough). 

Darnold... yeah he seems to be #1 for so many because he's seen as the one with the fewest flies buzzing around him. Reading C.Simms' comments - assuming they have real validity - if a lot of the difficult situations he had were self-induced, it's as big a concern as Allen's lower completion percentage due in no small part to the lack of checkdowns. Truth is a lot of the discussion is academic for the Jets, since he's unlikely to reach #3 anyway; he's supposedly #1 (or no lower than #2) on both the Browns' and Giants' big boards. 

Rosen seems to be the best-rounded among the bunch; the guy who has displayed enough of everything, and who needs the least coaching help to be a top 5 QB. That's an attractive plus, particularly because Jets. Past history of multiple concussions are real concerns, especially since we don't exactly have the 7 (or 5, or even 1-2) blocks of granite protecting our QBs, or how many more minor concussions he had that even he wasn't aware of and never got really checked. Continuing his career in the NFL against bigger and faster and better defenders, he will get hit hard to the point where his neck snaps suddenly, shaking the contents of the appendage above it; he will get his helmet driven into the turf, or into a second defender coming at him from the opposite side; he will take head-to-head hits. These things happen to all QBs. The #1 risk of future concussions seems to be past history of concussions; football is a high-risk concussion sport to begin with, so within that group some are more or less prone to them, and he's demonstrated to be among the former. What are we going to do in short yardage, remove the QB sneak from the playbook? 

Mayfield's upside is hopefully his accuracy develops as it did for Brees (which is plenty high), only with a naturally stronger arm; that, combined with instincts of when to keep on a receiver who's about to get open, and when to shift gaze quickly to others so he doesn't waste 2-3 seconds of a play staring down a covered target. Has he done that? I don't know; I keep hearing he's throwing to all these wide open receivers (especially his primary read), and that'd seem to be poor training for working through progressions as the competition gets far tougher.  The height doesn't bother me as much as some, and I'm sure he's got enough of an arm strength even if it isn't elite (the radar readings are nice, but that could be he uses the rest of his body more effectively than others, so they don't necessarily simulate game-velocity when he's rolling out and can't set his feet the same, or throwing off his back foot more because he needs that extra couple inches of height to see over the lines better. Regardless, I'm sure he can throw hard enough to be a top 10 QB if the rest of his game is sound. 

I find myself rooting for the guy with the highest floor than the highest ceiling because of a lack of trust. Hackenberg may have been a terrible draft pick, but is/was he really so bad that they couldn't even use him in garbage time? Or is this staff so hopeless in developing rawer prospects - even with Josh McMentor on the roster - that they couldn't even get him to not crap himself in limited action with a more limited playbook (the defense doesn't know which plays they've removed). Same for Petty. No, neither is the prospect Allen is, but the dramatic failures of them both speaks so poorly for this crew developing inaccurate prospects into accurate ones (particularly in live action). 

So that's my concern with Allen, as exciting as it would be to have someone with his raw gifts, if he could put it all together. It's not that he's always going to be inaccurate; it's that is this really the place to fix that? Could be, but history suggests otherwise. 

Very valid points. My one hope is that we have Jeremy Bates. I feel he is a true QB guru and runs a well-balanced system.

Now, Bowles can overrule and ruin everything. But even with the extension and the no playoff mandate, if Chris Johnson sees their shiny new draft pick QB getting a stunted development. I think they fire Bowles for sure. 

Hack sucks, but as you said, was he really SO BAD he didn’t deserve garbage time, or a chance to play? His preseason/training camp was not that far off from McCown’s. Plus the Lions game where Hack started, half the starting oline was benched. 

I always felt Bowles hated the Hack pick and wanted no part of that pick, especially im the 2nd round, coming off a 10-6 season, and Bowles spited Mac by not playing him. I really believe that. 

[Jetster]

I think everyone has boarded the Darnold to the Browns bandwagon just a bit too early. The Browns were probably set to take the best player in the draft in Sequan Barkley & then the Jets threw a monkey wrench into that one by trading up to the 3rd spot. Not that the Jets were interested in Barkley over a QB but if a QB needy team COULDN'T move up the Browns were in the drivers seat. 

The Giants taking a QB so high run the risk of fanatics losing their minds if Eli has a bad game. The urge & temptation becomes too large to ignore if the guy you took NUMBER 2 OVERALL in the draft is sitting on the bench with a clipboard in his hand. 

The Colts have Luck & cant afford to have 2 QBs taking up so much cap with a team more devoid of talent than the Jets. 

So the Browns would have probably had their freaking choice of QB at 4 & Barkley. But not with the Jets slipping in between. It's not like Taylor is some old dude, he easily fits the role of a bridge QB. For the life of me, I look at these 2 guys, Darnold & Allen and can't even imagine a team that plays in sh*tty rainy, snowy crappy weather, taking a guy that played in Pasadena, over a 6'-5" freak athlete, that can throw a ball to cut through any wind, and can run like Carson Wentz when need be, hard working farm boy type, with a great head on his shoulders. I haven't read a Browns boards but man, Josh Allen fits the tough Browns mode over Sam Darnold any day. 

I think Josh Allen goes off the board to the Browns at #1, plus I believe because the Browns still have a TON OF MONEY and too many draft picks, they trade with the NY Giants for the #2 pick and secure Sequan Barkley! The Giants only move 2 places, KNOWING that the NY Jets are taking a QB! Which will leave them sitting there at #4, with still 2 franchise QBs on the board & Bradley Chubb, and now the Giants are in a position to trade back AGAIN if they so chose!

I can easily see Gettleman gathering draft picks to rebuild this overpaid free agent roster the Giants have been the last 2 years. Taking a QB in the mid rounds would be much more prudent for the Giants and take any added pressure off for a QB change. 

In this scenario, the Jets will be picking from Darnold, Rosen & Mayfield at #3, and it's gonna be a long 15 minutes for Jet fans.

[greenwave81]

18 hours ago, nycdan said:

That's okay.  If we land any of Darnold/Rosen/Allen, I think we have accomplished what we needed to.  We got our potential franchise QB.  However, if we take Mayfield over any of them because he's a better fit for the WCO...well I'm not sure how I'll feel about that.

That's my feeling too...

With Bowles on 'thin ice' as it is, will Bates even be here next year?  Drafting a QB into 'your scheme' makes a lot more sense if the coaching regime is stable, not standing on a banana peel.

If it's Rosen or Allen, I'd probably take Rosen...but it's close.

If it's Allen or Mayfield, I'd run to the podium and take Allen.

[Adoni Beast]

6 minutes ago, greenwave81 said:

That's my feeling too...

With Bowles on 'thin ice' as it is, will Bates even be here next year?  Drafting a QB into 'your scheme' makes a lot more sense if the coaching regime is stable, not standing on a banana peel.

If it's Rosen or Allen, I'd probably take Rosen...but it's close.

If it's Allen or Mayfield, I'd run to the podium and take Allen.

I think Bowles finishes this season and either comes back, or they’ll promote Bates to HC if whichever QB they draft seems to get along with and fit Bates’ vision for the position and the offense.

If Bates is gone too, then you hire a HC who tailors the offense around the talent, like O’Brien is doing with Watson. You don’t hire someone who wants to fit players into a system and pass on talent.

[nycdan]

9 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I think Bowles finishes this season and either comes back, or they’ll promote Bates to HC if whichever QB they draft seems to get along with and fit Bates’ vision for the position and the offense.

If Bates is gone too, then you hire a HC who tailors the offense around the talent, like O’Brien is doing with Watson. You don’t hire someone who wants to fit players into a system and pass on talent.

Look at this.  We have several people agreeing here.  Mark it down, Max!

 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

Very valid points. My one hope is that we have Jeremy Bates. I feel he is a true QB guru and runs a well-balanced system.

Now, Bowles can overrule and ruin everything. But even with the extension and the no playoff mandate, if Chris Johnson sees their shiny new draft pick QB getting a stunted development. I think they fire Bowles for sure. 

Hack sucks, but as you said, was he really SO BAD he didn’t deserve garbage time, or a chance to play? His preseason/training camp was not that far off from McCown’s. Plus the Lions game where Hack started, half the starting oline was benched. 

I always felt Bowles hated the Hack pick and wanted no part of that pick, especially im the 2nd round, coming off a 10-6 season, and Bowles spited Mac by not playing him. I really believe that. 

You could be 100% correct here. Then again, if he's such a true QB guru Hackenberg would have leapfrogged Petty. Or I'd think so anyway.

If Bowles truly hated the Hack pick and wanted to spite Macc, the best way to spite him is to play him and let everyone see him complete 38% of his passes again.

Further, if that was the case, it'd be known internally and I don't see both of them getting extended together, even by one or the other Johnson. 

Bowles was primarily looking to extend his tenure here. If Hackenberg would win more games than Petty as they closed out the year, he'd have put him out there rather than cut off his nose to spite his face. Ditto last year. 

[Bugg]

On 3/29/2018 at 3:41 PM, nycdan said:

I gotta say,  I was leaning his way before, but watching this video, I'm on team Allen.  I wouldn't hate Mayfield if that's how things work out, but I think Allen has a better chance to be really good than many here give him credit for.  A lot of that is based on his late start in football, which means he has a lot of catching up to do on the learning curve.  And then there's his chart-busting toolset.  If he can put it together, his ceiling is enormous.  And the thought of him landing in BUF's lap and becoming our next 15-year nemesis is just lurking in the back of my brain.  I don't have that same concern about Mayfield, who I think caps out at maybe being a very good QB, but not a monster.

Yeah, I know this is an unpopular opinion here, and lots of people have already written Allen off.  But the fact that nearly every evaluator in the business is high on him, some to the point of saying he's the top guy in this class, I am sipping the Kool-Aid.  And if he goes ahead of us, meaning Darnold or Rosen drop to us, that's fine too.  #3 feels like a pretty good spot to be right now.

Basic idea is would like to think Maccagnan informed by Bates has a better idea about who is the best choice among the 4 in the 3rd spot. So who ever they pick, I'm all in. Not gonna get worked up about who is better, the guy is the guy. 

My concern is more the agenda of Bowles. Simply if they go 0-16 but put the QB of the Future in place and in good position going forward, totally cool with that.

We've wasted 2 years on this idiot HC trying to win games with his sheetbag defense. Do not expect him to be here after 2018. Know it's radical, but seen a lot of college football; there are a lot of brilliant young offensive minds out there. Giving this "establish the run" pretend tough guy with the not shutdown defense under NFL rules as enforced is an embarrassment. There was no good reason not to play Petty 2 years ago and Hackenberg last year. Would like to think somebody at Florham Park looks at least year's draft and not taking Mahomes or Watson over Adams was a wasted opportunity that needs to be corrected RIGHT FREAKING NOW. And expect that once this season is done the Jets are going to finally get the franchise on the same page get a real HC.  No more cowardice like punting down 2 scores late in the 4th. But first things first; a real QB. 

[Philc1]

20 hours ago, Bugg said:

Basic idea is would like to think Maccagnan informed by Bates has a better idea about who is the best choice among the 4 in the 3rd spot. So who ever they pick, I'm all in. Not gonna get worked up about who is better, the guy is the guy. 

My concern is more the agenda of Bowles. Simply if they go 0-16 but put the QB of the Future in place and in good position going forward, totally cool with that.

We've wasted 2 years on this idiot HC trying to win games with his sheetbag defense. Do not expect him to be here after 2018. Know it's radical, but seen a lot of college football; there are a lot of brilliant young offensive minds out there. Giving this "establish the run" pretend tough guy with the not shutdown defense under NFL rules as enforced is an embarrassment. There was no good reason not to play Petty 2 years ago and Hackenberg last year. Would like to think somebody at Florham Park looks at least year's draft and not taking Mahomes or Watson over Adams was a wasted opportunity that needs to be corrected RIGHT FREAKING NOW. And expect that once this season is done the Jets are going to finally get the franchise on the same page get a real HC.  No more cowardice like punting down 2 scores late in the 4th. But first things first; a real QB. 

Agree it’s  not that Bowles was against playing young qbs the young qbs we did have clearly were horrible

[jgb]

It makes sense and Simms could ultimately be proven right but the pen gets a lot heavier when you’re writing a name on that card that will determine your job status within 10 or at best 22 months.