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Another athlete opinion: Phil Simms would take Josh Allen #1


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2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

But what does Phil know about playing QB compared to us?

If you polled everyone who played QB since Phil Simms' era you'd almost certainly get a wide variety of opinions about who should be taken #1 overall.

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1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

That's simply not true. 

These were the first 3 mock drafts for the 2018 Draft I found dating back to last April/May

Mcshay's mock draft from last May had Allen at 2: http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/insider/story/_/id/19294111/todd-mcshay-way-too-early-2018-mock-draft-nfl-draft

Here's mock draft from last April had Allen at 6: https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/gallery/2018-nfl-mock-draft-the-way-too-early-two-round-projection-042917

Matt Miller's mock draft from last May had Allen at 2. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706876-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-way-too-early-predictions

Talent evaluators, if anything, have been uber consistent in their feelings for Allen for well over a year now. 

Shh, you're destroying the "literally 0/1000" narrative.

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58 minutes ago, jmat321 said:

I remember Phil saying Mark Sanchez "Has all the tools"

Sanchez did, and then it all fell apart after the Steelers AFCCG

Look at how Sanchez avoids the rush on this game winning drive with 49 seconds left, down 4 with no TOs.  The strikes thrown under pressure.  Sanchez simply didn't develop, but at that point he certainly had all the tools.

 

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3 minutes ago, SMC said:

Sanchez did, and then it all fell apart after the Steelers AFCCG

Look at how Sanchez avoids the rush on this game winning drive with 49 seconds left, down 4 with no TOs.  The strikes thrown under pressure.  Sanchez simply didn't develop, but at that point he certainly had all the tools.

 

I remember this game. Santonio in the left corner of the end zone was money... did it to the Patriots in the division round too.

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30 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

But my sh*t smells the best is what I’m trying to say here.

you are young...ive been around a bit...there has been plenty of guys on here and the old JI that thought they were GM's in training...you are not special :)

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3 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

you are young...ive been around a bit...there has been plenty of guys on here and the old JI that thought they were GM's in training...you are not special :)

I have an innate ability. So in theory, you are right. 

I am not special.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am different.

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35 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

If Simms says to take Allen.... then we know not to take Allen.

I remember back in 2002 prior to the Superbowl (Tampa/Raiders - aka "The Gruden Bowl") when Phil Simms told Francesa that the Raiders change their offense up every single game.  Then after the game he was saying how the Tampa defense was calling out the plays that the Raiders were running prior to the snap because Gruden trained them so well on the play calling.  I haven't trusted Simms ever since.

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1 hour ago, SMC said:

Sanchez did, and then it all fell apart after the Steelers AFCCG

Look at how Sanchez avoids the rush on this game winning drive with 49 seconds left, down 4 with no TOs.  The strikes thrown under pressure.  Sanchez simply didn't develop, but at that point he certainly had all the tools.

 

Texans had the worst pass defense in the NFL that season fwiw. Sanchez was fools gold that couldnt help himself with the bad turnovers. He'd put together the occasional good game against a bad defense.

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2 hours ago, jmat321 said:

I remember Phil saying Mark Sanchez "Has all the tools"

Mark Sanchez had all the tools, he just couldn't deal with pressure (AT ALL). you saw what he could do when he got protected and had a team around him. the jets did him no favors when they started to rebuild with him at QB.

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not for nothing but hack was rated at 5.6 at his combine and that should've meant he's better than what we've seen so far.  if the combine results are to be believed then darnold is the first qb taken and then flip a coin between mayfield, allen and rosen. by comparison teddy got a 6.3 grade.

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1 hour ago, SMC said:

Sanchez did, and then it all fell apart after the Steelers AFCCG

Look at how Sanchez avoids the rush on this game winning drive with 49 seconds left, down 4 with no TOs.  The strikes thrown under pressure.  Sanchez simply didn't develop, but at that point he certainly had all the tools.

 

I remember this game well and fans keep pretending that Sanchez never was any good.....

He was plenty good and the Jets decided to get rid of the skill players around him and then the wheels fell off but to say he was a poor player is a lie.....

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4 hours ago, SMC said:

Don't be surprised if the the draft goes Allen and Barkley 1 & 2.  The question then will be how quickly Macc's head will explode.

If I were Gettleman, I'd be on the phone to Maccagnan on draft night telling him what the price is to move up from 3 to 2. If Maccagnan bites, then Giants take Barkley (screwing the Browns in the process); if Maccagnan sits pat, Gettleman takes whichever QB he likes best after the Browns take Darnold.

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1 hour ago, Charlie Brown said:

I remember this game well and fans keep pretending that Sanchez never was any good.....

He was plenty good and the Jets decided to get rid of the skill players around him and then the wheels fell off but to say he was a poor player is a lie.....

When glue guy Jerricho Cotchery asked for and was given his release, that was a major warning sign that signing prima donnas like Mason and Plax wasn't going to be good for the Jets and for Sanchez. Plus Tannenbaum whiffed on a number of picks, including taking Ducasse in the second round (from memory). And then we had Rex Ryan wasting a pick on Sanchez's high school buddy when he could have been a street free agent. Sanchez had his warts, but from top to bottom, the organisation simply believed its own hype after back to back championship games.

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I was at football camp one summer when Phil came by, gave a speech, and then did a Q&A. He fielded questions like "whats the super bowl ring like?" and "What was it like under the lights of the Super Bowl"? Then a teammate asked him "I got one PHIL, what was it like having Hostetler bail you out?" He cut the Q&A short. My best memory of Phil. 

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Phil Simms played for the Giants. Giants puck #2. Giants want Darnold or Rosen. Simms plugs Allen to help the cause.

I have said it before, part of me suspects that Allen is the guy being over-sold to get others to drop. We’ll see...

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One can argue that Allen is similar player to Simms coming out of college.  

Simms took awhile to develop too.

But that is the standard model of an NFL QB when players were not freely moveable and the game was different.

Now, the ability to process and be accurate is more important than having a strong arm and being big and strong.  

It would appear to me that Mac has been stuck in the old model.  

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4 minutes ago, varjet said:

One can argue that Allen is similar player to Simms coming out of college.  

Simms took awhile to develop too.

But that is the standard model of an NFL QB when players were not freely moveable and the game was different.

Now, the ability to process and be accurate is more important than having a strong arm and being big and strong.  

It would appear to me that Mac has been stuck in the old model.  

it's hard to compare Simms to any of these guys but Simms took so long to develop b/c he was always hurt early in his career.  His first full season wasn't until his 5th season and that's the year the giants really began to take off as a top flight team.

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I remember Rex working him ( Sanchez) out before we drafted him and saying that he can make all the NFL throws. He had the tools. Problem was he regressed after those 1st few years. He could have been our franchise QB. You just never know.

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At this point, at least it is some solace that if Allen is indeed the pick, it's not a completely outlandish selection.

I'm still as queasy about the kid as anyone, but you can see he has all the tools to be successful. Perhaps it's just too soon after Hack that we all have a blind spot, but Allen does look pretty good on film. Granted, his timing is a bit slow and he can be erratic, but that CAN be corrected. I will be rooting hard to hear Barkley's name called first (or second), because a shot at Rosen or Darnold would be great, but  I'm starting (slowly) to come around to Allen not being a complete and total disaster pick.

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5 minutes ago, Thai Jet said:

 

I remember Rex working him ( Sanchez) out before we drafted him and saying that he can make all the NFL throws. He had the tools. Problem was he regressed after those 1st few years. He could have been our franchise QB. You just never know.

Yeah. I go back and fourth on those years regularly. On one hand, I never want to think about Buttfumble ever again. On the other, Rex and Tanny stunted poor Sanchez' growth at every turn. Threw him into the fire right away, took away his weapons, gave him absolutely zero margin for error. What could have been...

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2 minutes ago, RVAJet815 said:

Yeah. I go back and fourth on those years regularly. On one hand, I never want to think about Buttfumble ever again. On the other, Rex and Tanny stunted poor Sanchez' growth at every turn. Threw him into the fire right away, took away his weapons, gave him absolutely zero margin for error. What could have been...

he was ready to play right away, he was really good that first month.  then we made the big trade for Braylon and it took time to adjust and he was up and down like most rookies.  Year 2 he was really good, year 3 he took a step back but was still good.  He fell off a cliff in year 4, the biggest issue was they kept taking talent away and expecting him to get better.  They kept trying to build up an already good D and ignore the offense around the QB. when he had talent around him he was good and we won, when that talent went away he failed and the team failed.

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Just now, RVAJet815 said:

Yeah. I go back and fourth on those years. On one hand, I never want to think about Buttfumble ever again. On the other, Rex and Tanny stunted poor Sanchez' growth at every turn. Threw him into the fire right away, took away his weapons, gave him absolutely zero margin for error. What could have been...

Yes they threw him into the fire right away but he responded beautifully. Two AFC championship games ! I thought we were all set. You make a valid point about the weapons. Gotta have someone on the other end.

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6 minutes ago, RVAJet815 said:

Yeah. I go back and fourth on those years regularly. On one hand, I never want to think about Buttfumble ever again. On the other, Rex and Tanny stunted poor Sanchez' growth at every turn. Threw him into the fire right away, took away his weapons, gave him absolutely zero margin for error. What could have been...

It's funny you bring up Sanchez - one of the biggest knocks on Sanchez was his poor ball security and reckless ball handling skills - seems to be a theme with USC QB's because Darnold is getting the same knock stemming from a lot of fumbles & turnovers last season from what I've read & been listening to.

This is really the only thing about Darnold that gives me pause.

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6 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

It's funny you bring up Sanchez - one of the biggest knocks on Sanchez was his poor ball security and reckless ball handling skills - seems to be a theme with USC QB's because Darnold is getting the same knock stemming from a lot of fumbles & turnovers last season from what I've read & been listening to.

This is really the only thing about Darnold that gives me pause.

I don't recall that but looking it up he had 16 INts in 487 attempts and 3 lost fumbles.  That doesn't seem to be a high # of TOs.

Darnold threw 22 INTs in 846 attempts and lost 14 fumbles. Sanchez's INt rate was higher but lost fumble rate much lower

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