TuscanyTile2 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 It's my feeling that NFL scouts generally view Baker Mayfield as a cut below the other 3 QBs and that he's the clear #4 of the top 4 QBs (Darnold, Allen, Rosen). From what you've heard/read, do you get the same impression? For the record, I'm asking this because I want to look back after the draft and see how accurate we were in judging this type of stuff. It's interesting to me how quickly perspectives change so I'd like to kind of capture a snapshot of where the forum is at right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Whether we find it fair or not, agree or disagree, etc., they do. Personally, I think it's nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupz27 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Mogglez said: Whether we find it fair or not, agree or disagree, etc., they do. Personally, I think it's nuts. The most important question is what do the Jets think, please do tell if you know lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persiussa Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 That’s true from what I’m hearing. I’ve heard multiple podcasts and radio interviews that indicate Mayfield is #4. I listen to so many podcasts that it’s cloudy who has said what so I wish I could site specific examples but I can’t. A few analysts liked mayfield more than Allen but It it seems like 75% to 25% Allen over Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionelRichie Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 18 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: It's my feeling that NFL scouts generally view Baker Mayfield as a cut below the other 3 QBs and that he's the clear #4 of the top 4 QBs (Darnold, Allen, Rosen). From what you've heard/read, do you get the same impression? For the record, I'm asking this because I want to look back after the draft and see how accurate we were in judging this type of stuff. It's interesting to me how quickly perspectives change so I'd like to kind of capture a snapshot of where the forum is at right now. Every fleeting thought in your mind does not need to be its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, LionelRichie said: Every fleeting thought in your mind does not need to be its own thread. There's an ignore button. I won't be offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Mogglez said: Whether we find it fair or not, agree or disagree, etc., they do. Personally, I think it's nuts. I thought you were on the Baker Bus lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Yes, what I've read points to the talent evaluators thinking Mayfield is a notch below Darnold, Rosen and Allen. Mayfield is the "popular" pick because fans know him. It's like a popular movie with horrible reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: It's my feeling that NFL scouts generally view Baker Mayfield as a cut below the other 3 QBs and that he's the clear #4 of the top 4 QBs (Darnold, Allen, Rosen). From what you've heard/read, do you get the same impression? For the record, I'm asking this because I want to look back after the draft and see how accurate we were in judging this type of stuff. It's interesting to me how quickly perspectives change so I'd like to kind of capture a snapshot of where the forum is at right now. absolutely. too many minuses to be a top 3 pick. - system QB - short - top 3 teams are bad weather teams - a so so athlete...ran like a 4.8 at the combine which is average - needs to work on his mechanics some now, he has a ton of positive traits...but i am not sure there has ever been a QB drafted top 10 with those negatives (esp height/size). I can think of Vick, Wilson, and Brees. Vick was the only high pick and he had a brett favre arm with chris johnson legs (and what turned out to be about a 50% of functioning brain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, Lupz27 said: The most important question is what do the Jets think, please do tell if you know lol. This late in the game I'm usually in the dark lol. This is hush-hush time lol, as teams start to really put together their position rankings and boards. Also begins the #SmokescreenSZN. 2 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: I thought you were on the Baker Bus lol? I am lol, I mean I think it's nuts to not have him high up as a prospect because he doesn't have the prototypical tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletKnight89 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, SMC said: Yes, what I've read points to the talent evaluators thinking Mayfield is a notch below Darnold, Rosen and Allen. Mayfield is the "popular" pick because fans know him. It's like a popular movie with horrible reviews. He's also had the best college career. He posted the highest grade in the nation throwing from both a clean pocket and pressured pocket. He had a 139.9 passer rating when blitzed. Also had the best adjusted completion percentage on deep passes in the country. He's a big name because of some of the off the field stuff and the school he played for but he's a legit talent. The play on the field is there with him. If he was a little taller I don't think people would automatically be ranking him 4th in this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 So that last you heard was that Baker was 4th on the list?Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Mogglez said: This late in the game I'm usually in the dark lol. This is hush-hush time lol, as teams start to really put together their position rankings and boards. Also begins the #SmokescreenSZN. I am lol, I mean I think it's nuts to not have him high up as a prospect because he doesn't have the prototypical tools. Any news you can tell us, I'd love to hear. I'm sure there's misdirection and teams are probably also changing their minds too. But if you do hear anything that you feel like you can pass along, again I'd love to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, k-met57 said: absolutely. too many minuses to be a top 3 pick. - system QB - short - top 3 teams are bad weather teams - a so so athlete...ran like a 4.8 at the combine which is average - needs to work on his mechanics some now, he has a ton of positive traits...but i am not sure there has ever been a QB drafted top 10 with those negatives (esp height). I can think of Vick, Wilson, and Brees. Vick was the only high pick and he had a brett favre arm with chris johnson legs (and what turned out to be about a 50% of functioning brain). Except other than height none of those traits are true... He's not a system QB - at least no more than any other QB - he moves, he stays in the pocket, he has multiple reads etc. What does the weather have to do with anything? his arm is big - stronger than Rosen and every other college prospect except Allen He's plenty athletic - He's faster than both Rosen and Darnold.. Virtually every QB coming out of college has to work on their mechanics. Him less so than most - less than Allen and Darnold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I think Baker Mayfield is better than all of them and Rosen is a close second. There seems to be this Manziel perception of Mayfield due to his height and firey personality and I don't think that's a fair assessment . In fact I think Mayfield is everything Manziel should have turned out to be but Manziel is an idiot and really couldn't care less what anyone thinks of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadienJetsFan Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 No clue what the so called "experts" think of this kid, but I wonder if he were e couple of inches taller, would he still be ranked at #4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said: No clue what the so called "experts" think of this kid, but I wonder if he were e couple of inches taller, would he still be ranked at #4? If Rosen had Allen's size/strength, he'd almost certainly be the consensus #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Except other than height none of those traits are true... He's not a system QB - at least no more than any other QB - he moves, he stays in the pocket, he has multiple reads etc. What does the weather have to do with anything? his arm is big - stronger than Rosen and every other college prospect except Allen He's plenty athletic - He's faster than both Rosen and Darnold.. Virtually every QB coming out of college has to work on their mechanics. Him less so than most - less than Allen and Darnold. this is very wrong. - BIG12 puts out guys with huge numbers every year. his numbers are a product of the system no doubt. mason rudolph threw for 5000 yards! Bradford through 50 TD's - dont kid yourself the style of offense he came from absolute plays against him - weather has everything to do with it, and its not just throwing, its also holding on to the football with his smallish hands. also he has the 4th strongest arm between the top 4 prospects (him, allen, darnold, rosen)...never mind all of college football (i dont even know how you would knot that) - he is not "very athletic", he is very competetive and athletic by college standards. NFL has LB that run a 4'3 40, they will eat his lunch on one of his scrambles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 53 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: It's my feeling that NFL scouts generally view Baker Mayfield as a cut below the other 3 QBs and that he's the clear #4 of the top 4 QBs (Darnold, Allen, Rosen). From what you've heard/read, do you get the same impression? For the record, I'm asking this because I want to look back after the draft and see how accurate we were in judging this type of stuff. It's interesting to me how quickly perspectives change so I'd like to kind of capture a snapshot of where the forum is at right now. yep, he's 3 inches shorter. the nfl scouts all love those 6-4, 6-5 guys for qb so they can more easily throw over dlinemen. but russel wilson and drew brees have both been very successful. even joe willie wasn't much over 6 ft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangrene Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 For what it's worth ( currently barely a nickel ) Pro Football Focus have Baker Mayfield rated the highest qb in the 2018 draft by a significant margin. These are the same good people who gave Chrishtian Hackenberg an undraftable grade... we all know how laughable that appraisal was/ After Mayfield, PFF have a Darnold, Rosen and of course, finally...the other Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Gangrene said: For what it's worth ( currently barely a nickel ) Pro Football Focus have Baker Mayfield rated the highest qb in the 2018 draft by a significant margin. These are the same good people who gave Chrishtian Hackenberg an undraftable grade... we all know how laughable that appraisal was/ After Mayfield, PFF have a Darnold, Rosen and of course, finally...the other Josh. u do know Cody Kessler has the second highest grade from them for QB's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 35 minutes ago, k-met57 said: this is very wrong. - BIG12 puts out guys with huge numbers every year. his numbers are a product of the system no doubt. mason rudolph threw for 5000 yards! Bradford through 50 TD's - dont kid yourself the style of offense he came from absolute plays against him - weather has everything to do with it, and its not just throwing, its also holding on to the football with his smallish hands. also he has the 4th strongest arm between the top 4 prospects (him, allen, darnold, rosen)...never mind all of college football (i dont even know how you would knot that) - he is not "very athletic", he is very competetive and athletic by college standards. NFL has LB that run a 4'3 40, they will eat his lunch on one of his scrambles So, because he put up good numbers he can't be good. I don't like him for his numbers but his skill-set. the hands thing is ridiculous - do you really believe he'll be fumbling all over the place when he's in cold weather. silly... As for athletic, I'm not sure your point - he's faster than Rosen and Darnol - that's not a problem for them but only him? Arm strenght...see link below... http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 No Nolan Naworcki draft guide this year. You'd usually get a good aggregate of opinions regarding polarizing players. Not sure if anyone else in the industry gets those anymore. Maybe Mcginn up in Wisconsin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: So, because he put up good numbers he can't be good. I don't like him for his numbers but his skill-set. the hands thing is ridiculous - do you really believe he'll be fumbling all over the place when he's in cold weather. silly... As for athletic, I'm not sure your point - he's faster than Rosen and Darnol - that's not a problem for them but only him? Arm strenght...see link below... http://www.ourlads.com/story/default/Quarterback-Ball-Velocity-at-2018-NFL-Combine/10241/dh/ rosen and darnold are not constantly running for their life!! yeeeesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJoTownsell1 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I would venture to guess that more scouts have him ranked 5th than have him ranked in the top 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nixhead Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 So Mayfield is an excellent system QB - so let's draft him and design a system for him where he can Excel. Brady is a system QB. He and Belicheck design their own system and yeah it works. Mayfield is the most accurate QB in this draft and he excels under pressure. Mayfield is in reality the best QB in the draft right now. He doesn't have the most upside because of his height but he is the best. Put Darnold or Rosen in his place and do u think they would of put up the numbers he did and won as many games as he did. I say they would not have. Also who is more likely to have a longer NFL career? A tall immobile sitting duck like Rosen or a quicker more agile Mayfield? I think it's a no brainier. Rosen is a gamble. Mayfield is more of a sure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPitch Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I also wonder if the height thing is clouding judgment. Mayfield seems to have done a lot more than the others by far. If he was 6 5 i think hed be the man by all his critics My gut says he becomes the most successful. Him and rosen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangrene Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, k-met57 said: u do know Cody Kessler has the second highest grade from them for QB's.... My point is not that PFF were right once but rather that all scouts are wrong as much as they are right. How the scouts/media perceive Baker Mayfield be it Jeremiah, Brooks, Maycock etc compared to other qbs in the draft is no indication of Mayfield's future success or failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 3 hours ago, Gangrene said: For what it's worth ( currently barely a nickel ) Pro Football Focus have Baker Mayfield rated the highest qb in the 2018 draft by a significant margin. These are the same good people who gave Chrishtian Hackenberg an undraftable grade... we all know how laughable that appraisal was/ After Mayfield, PFF have a Darnold, Rosen and of course, finally...the other Josh. They also, forget his name, said that Mayfield would be the first player overall in the draft on NFLN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-met57 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gangrene said: My point is not that PFF were right once but rather that all scouts are wrong as much as they are right. How the scouts/media perceive Baker Mayfield be it Jeremiah, Brooks, Maycock etc compared to other qbs in the draft is no indication of Mayfield's future success or failure. i agree with that...its a crap shoot...Allen could be as good or as bad as anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said: It's my feeling that NFL scouts generally view Baker Mayfield as a cut below the other 3 QBs and that he's the clear #4 of the top 4 QBs (Darnold, Allen, Rosen). From what you've heard/read, do you get the same impression? For the record, I'm asking this because I want to look back after the draft and see how accurate we were in judging this type of stuff. It's interesting to me how quickly perspectives change so I'd like to kind of capture a snapshot of where the forum is at right now. I’ll never understand how Jets fans can hold these two thoughts in their head at the same time without having their skulls shatter down the middle— 1. Quotes from “scouts” regarding prospects are especially valuable. 2. Long-time scout Mike Maccagnan built this Jets team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetscreen Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Yes, they do view him as a clear tick below the top 3 QB's and it's all based on his lack of physical size and a view very minor red flags off the field. I think it's stupid. Mac should select Mayfield at 3 and run like he just stole him. As far as I'm concerned, he's the best QB coming out in this draft. Let's see how much his height matters 3 years down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I think if you averaged it out he's the #4 in the "consensus" but there's zero doubt there are plenty that have him higher than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I think Mayfield may be the best pro of all of them. I think Allen will be the next Rick Mirer. Or Kyle Boller. Or Josh Freeman. There have been so many big-armed guys who have enticed GMs and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 I voted yes, Mayfield is the 4th best QB. Not 1, 2 or even 3. I'm actually softening my hate for a Josh Allen pick ....may god have mercy on my soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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