Rosen too much a risk?

[MDL_JET]

https://cbssports.radio.com/articles/ross-tucker-i-wouldnt-touch-josh-rosen-draft

Josh Rosen is at the top of a lot of teams’ QB draft boards – and for good reason. He’s 6-4, 226 pounds, and looked NFL-ready as a freshman at UCLA. 

Still, there are concerns. Rosen had surgery on his throwing shoulder in 2016 and, perhaps more importantly, suffered two concussions last season.

“I can’t believe more people aren’t talking about the fact that Josh Rosen had two concussions last year at UCLA,” SiriusXM NFL Analyst Ross Tucker said on Tiki and Tierney. “One, he missed a game, and the other one, he missed a whole month.”

What if Rosen gets another concussion or two as a rookie? Or in his second season? Or in his third?

“I can say this because I went to an Ivy League school,” said Tucker, who went to Princeton. “His mom went to Princeton, his dad went to Penn and is a renowned spine surgeon. If you draft him in the top five picks, he gets a minimum of $24 million fully guaranteed. Let’s be logical about this: how many concussions is he going to play through?”

That’s a fair question.

“I’m not suggesting he should,” Tucker clarified. “I’m just saying with his background and the fact that he just had two last year, he might be one-and-done. He might get a concussion and be like, ‘Okay, I can get $24 million fully guaranteed in this contract and never pay football again, or I can go back out, get another concussion and maybe another one.’”

Rosen's concussion history alone would prevent Tucker from drafting him – regardless of talent.

"I know they say he’s the best pure passer and all that stuff,” Tucker said, “but that’s a guy I would not touch because that concussion risk is too big for me.”

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/03/how_will_the_giants_evaluate_a_prospect_with_a_con.html

All of the draft prospects are being poked and prodded during thorough medical examinations at the NFL Scouting Combine this week, but evaluating concussions remains a gray area.

"It's harder because there's no objective imaging test that tells you much," said Dr. Scott Rodeo from the Hospital for Special Surgery, who has been the Giants' head team physician since 2015. "So, the biggest thing we look at is number of concussions. An important factor, not just with concussions, is the number of injuries a kid has had. If he's had three hamstring strains and two high-ankle sprains and a shoulder subluxation ... a kid who has had a number of injuries, he's likely to have another. Concussions fit in that."

Rodeo spoke in general terms about how concussions factor into the pre-draft evaluation process. Rosen has had two documented concussions.

"Some concussions may not be documented, but the player who has numerous concussions, that's a bit of a red flag," Rodeo said. "If someone has had three or four concussions, there's a likelihood that they're going to have another one. So we try to get the number from the player. You may question the veracity of what he tells you, but we ask the player, and we also get the information from the colleges. So, with a concussion we can look at the number. Beyond that, it's hard to do much because there's no imaging per se that tells us anything."

[MDL_JET]

This is what scares me the most with Rosen. Would suck to finally find our guy and then this plagues him and it's over before we can even enjoy anything. 

[Jetsplayer21]

The only good news about picking 3. We likely will only have 2 of 4 to consider picking ?

[RSJ]

I believe Wentz also had some concussion issues coming out. Each of these QB's carries risk.

[Untouchable]

This is what I’ve been saying for months.

There’s no questioning his talent, but the concussion issue is a major concern for a guy whose love for the game has been questioned, has a family that is very well off financially and whose dad is a renowned surgeon.

[FidelioJet]

Honestly, IMO, he shouldn't even be a consideration - just way too much of an an injury risk.  He's been hurt going back to High School - it's not going to get easier in the NFL.

It would be very Jetsy to draft this kid, he'll look good when he plays - but will always be hurt - and for 5 years we'll be hoping, ala Sam Bradford, that this is the year he'll stay healthy.

before we finally cut-bait and start over.

Darnold, Mayfield, Allen (in that order) should be our first round draft board.

[C Mart]

3 minutes ago, RSJ said:

I believe Wentz also had some concussion issues coming out. Each of these QB's carries risk.

Agree. And for the next 5 weeks we’ll be hearing about every little thing that is supposedly wrong w/these guys. Whether true or not. 

[T0mShane]

On the one hand, having two concussions on the record is bad news. On the other hand, it’s pretty safe to assume that every quarterback ever drafted has had multiple concussions prior to being drafted.

[RSJ]

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

Agree. And for the next 5 weeks we’ll be hearing about every little thing that is supposedly wrong w/these guys. Whether true or not. 

More Russian interference. 

[jetstream23]

I'd ask him directly during the interview process.  "Football is violent game.  There will inevitably be injuries.  If you get another concussion....or two...or three, and you are forced to sit out games, but then are cleared by doctors would you have any hesitation going back to play?  What is your level of commitment to football and concern about injuries?"

I'd also do background with his teammates, coaches, friends, doctors where possible to understand his thinking.  Was it the medical staff that sat him for a month?  Was it him/his family that said he needed another week or two even though doctors had cleared him?

Important stuff.

 

[JiFtheOracle]

I think there is probably a really good chance, a lot of QB's enter the NFL with multiple concussions, documented or not.  The NCAA is one shady ass corporation.

I wonder how many scouts factor the OL into this conversation too.  Rosen was under pressure his entire career. I wonder if some teams overlook this thinking they can provide him better protection and get him into an offense where the balls comes out fast.

The, if he gets another concussion thought, is legit.  I could see him and his family not being cool with more concussions. 

[jetstream23]

I can also speak from experience having had two concussions.  It never really affected me.

It also didn't affect me when I had two concussions.

[JiFtheOracle]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

On the one hand, having two concussions on the record is bad news. On the other hand, it’s pretty safe to assume that every quarterback ever drafted has had multiple concussions prior to being drafted.

 

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think there is probably a really good chance, a lot of QB's enter the NFL with multiple concussions, documented or not.  The NCAA is one shady ass corporation.

Sex?  Or too ambitious?  We could start with a beer, I guess. 

[RSJ]

The Jets should just get some of that good Patriots HGH. The kind where you have a stroke and then play in a playoff game.

[JiFtheOracle]

3 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I'd ask him directly during the interview process.  "Football is violent game.  There will inevitably be injuries.  If you get another concussion....or two...or three, and you are forced to sit out games, but then are cleared by doctors would you have any hesitation going back to play?  What is your level of commitment to football and concern about injuries?"

I'd also do background with his teammates, coaches, friends, doctors where possible to understand his thinking.  Was it the medical staff that sat him for a month?  Was it him/his family that said he needed another week or two even though doctors had cleared him?

Important stuff.

 

Maybe ask him to bring Mom and Dad to the interview as well? 

[jetstream23]

4 minutes ago, RSJ said:

More Russian interference. 

Exactly.  This is a smoke screen.  It's not a big deal.

Did I ever tell you guys I had two concussions?

[UntouchableCrew]

I think injuries/passion for the game is the only real question mark with Rosen. Stepping away from the game due to concussions and a relatively thin an brittle body relative to other similar QBs is worrisome... But I think it's worth the gamble because if he stays healthy and plays I think there's very little chance he doesn't pan out.

[68JET11]

He might be the most talented of this class, but he also scares me the most. I don't want someone who's not 110% into playing this game. We don't need some premadonna who will quit on us. That's my biggest fear. If he had the moxie of Mayfield, I don't care his politics, even though I don't like them, would want him as our QB in a heartbeat. Problem is he doesn't seem to care.

[C Mart]

Pat Shurmur’s Eli Manning praise may hint at Josh Rosen concern

By Paul Schwartz

March 3, 2018 

INDIANAPOLIS — It does not take an expert to watch Josh Rosen set up and throw to determine he is a gifted passer.

It does, however, take real foresight to determine if Rosen is a perfect fit for the Giants, who own the No. 2-overall pick in next month’s draft. One of, if not the most impressive and perhaps most unappreciated (outside of the Giants building) of Eli Manning’s attributes for the past 14 years is his remarkable, at times astonishing durability. Rosen comes out of UCLA with a few injury issues that cannot be discounted but also must be put in proper perspective.

It is interesting that earlier in the week, new Giants head coach Pat Shurmur, when asked if anything he learned from studying every Manning snap in 2017 troubled him, immediately pivoted to something he once spoke about with former NFL executive Bill Polian.

“He’s the guy who told me guys who get injured a lot continue to get injured a lot,’’ Shurmur said.

Now, then, it is unfair to characterize Rosen as a guy who gets injured a lot. But he has a medical history that is not unblemished. Shurmur, unsolicited, was eager to point out Manning has thus far been invulnerable in his NFL career.

“Eli’s been durable,’’ Shurmur said. “I’ve been a lot of places where that can’t be said. That’s huge. A guy being available to play and a guy who is a really good player being out there all the time, that’s a huge thing. It’s very important.’’

Much has been made of Rosen’s slender physique and, indeed, he does look a bit gangly. Looks, though, can be deceiving. He is 6-foot-4 and weighed in at the NFL scouting combine at 226 pounds, heavier than all the quarterbacks in attendance other than the 6-5, 237-pound Josh Allen. It should be noted Rosen is only slightly taller than USC’s Sam Darnold (6-3 ³/₈) and 5 pounds heavier than Darnold (221 pounds) despite being leaner.

Rosen went under the knife in 2016 after his sophomore season was cut short when he landed awkwardly taking a big hit against Arizona State, resulting in a soft-tissue injury to his right (throwing) shoulder that required surgery to repair. Last season, Rosen suffered the first concussion of his career against Washington on Oct. 28, a game that also had Rosen scrambling out of trouble and bloodied from his finger and lip. Rosen was diagnosed with a second concussion Nov. 24 against California in the final game of the regular season, causing him to sit out UCLA’s Cactus Bowl loss to Kansas State.

Concussions are cumulative, and how the Giants view Rosen’s health history could be the difference in ranking in ahead or behind Darnold.

One clear separating factor is what the two did while attending the NFL Scouting Combine. Rosen opted to throw, Darnold did not.

“I mean, ball is ball,’’ Rosen said. “That’s what we do is we throw the football, so coming in here, I thought, ‘Why not?’ ”

Darnold did not see it that way.

“Obviously I’m going to throw at my Pro Day [March 21], and I think that’s a good opportunity for teams to be able to look at how I can spin it,” Darnold said. “I’m going to be throwing to guys I’ve played with, so I think given all the information I had, that was the best decision.”

The Post was part of a small media group allowed to watch live the quarterbacks’ afternoon throwing session Saturday inside Lucas Oil Stadium. It is not exactly a newsflash that Rosen’s touch and accuracy is special, and he showed comfort with a seven-step drop — which he did in college more frequently than any of the other top quarterback prospects.

Rosen skipped his first pass, a slant, and missed on an out-cut throw, but otherwise he was as-advertised. He put on a show with three 60-yard deep balls on the money, hitting in-stride Byron Pringle of Kansas State, Trey Quinn of SMU and Calvin Ridley of Alabama in rapid-fire succession. It was an impressive display that had David Carr, the former Giants backup quarterback now working for NFL Network, exclaiming, “Everything Josh does is easy … so fluid.”

There were misfires when Rosen threw out-cuts to the right sideline, mainly because the receivers were sluggish with their cuts. It was telling that the sharpest completion went to Ridley, the top receiver prospect in this draft.

On two post-corners, Rosen delivered the goods on throws, but Equanimeous St. Brown (Notre Dame) and Courtland Sutton (SMU) ran sloppy routes — no great surprise, considering the quarterbacks and receivers are completely unfamiliar with each other, which is one reason Darnold opted not to throw at the combine.

Rosen certainly did nothing to dissuade the Giants from taking him, if they go with a quarterback rather than Saquon Barkley, the uber-impressive Penn State running back, or guard Quenton Nelson of Notre Dame.

https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/pat-shurmurs-eli-manning-praise-may-hint-at-josh-rosen-concern/

[Thai Jet]

9 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Exactly.  This is a smoke screen.  It's not a big deal.

Did I ever tell you guys I had two concussions?

It's been obvious from your 1st day. lol

[Jetsplayer21]

This 1 of latest mock from si. 

1. Cleveland: Sam Darnold, QB, USC
Darnold is not perfect, but he’s still a damn good prospect. And when GM John Dorsey is looking for a leader he’s comfortable tying his professional future to, I think this 20-year-old is the guy.

2. Buffalo (projected trade with N.Y. Giants): Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming
The Bills have done a nice job building capital for a bold swing. This is one. Allen’s potential is limitless, and his big frame and arm are made for Buffalo, though he has a ways to go.

3. N.Y. Jets (from Indianapolis): Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA
I like the personality fit and on-field match between OC Jeremy Bates and Rosen, who’s seen as a “not for everyone” type of kid. He is the most evolved and natural passer in this group.

4. Denver (projected trade with Cleveland, owner of Houston’s pick): Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma
Denver had Mayfield at the Senior Bowl, and they have a starter, in Case Keenum, who lines up nicely with his style. So the Broncos throw another dart at the QB board.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nfl/2018/03/21/mock-draft-sam-darnold-browns-bills-trade-giants-josh-allen-broncos-trade-browns-baker-mayfield

[slimjasi]

Listen, it's a major issue and the only thing that keeps me from considering Rosen as, far and away, my top choice. 

However, I just think Rosen's passing talent is worth the risk. We'll see. 

[Pcola]

So if our choice comes down to selecting a super star that “may” have durability concerns or take a QB that will be a top 20 or 25 QB (below average) but will be healthy enough “maybe.”

No one can predict injuries.  Deciding to draft an inferior QB because the best QB available sat out two games due to being cautious, begs the question: are we trying to be average or are we trying to get to and with SBs?

There were a ton of posters on this site that are all over drafting Watson last year.  Watson’s injury risk is and was exponentially greater than Josh Rosen’s.  Which proved accurate this year.  

So the Jets messed up not taking Watson, but will mess up taking Rosen?  Just trying to figure the rationale.

[jetstream23]

3 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

This 1 of latest mock from si. 

1. Cleveland: Sam Darnold, QB, USC
Darnold is not perfect, but he’s still a damn good prospect. And when GM John Dorsey is looking for a leader he’s comfortable tying his professional future to, I think this 20-year-old is the guy.

2. Buffalo (projected trade with N.Y. Giants): Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming
The Bills have done a nice job building capital for a bold swing. This is one. Allen’s potential is limitless, and his big frame and arm are made for Buffalo, though he has a ways to go.

3. N.Y. Jets (from Indianapolis): Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA
I like the personality fit and on-field match between OC Jeremy Bates and Rosen, who’s seen as a “not for everyone” type of kid. He is the most evolved and natural passer in this group.

4. Denver (projected trade with Cleveland, owner of Houston’s pick): Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma
Denver had Mayfield at the Senior Bowl, and they have a starter, in Case Keenum, who lines up nicely with his style. So the Broncos throw another dart at the QB board.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nfl/2018/03/21/mock-draft-sam-darnold-browns-bills-trade-giants-josh-allen-broncos-trade-browns-baker-mayfield

Interesting.

[C Mart]

14 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

He might be the most talented of this class, but he also scares me the most. I don't want someone who's not 110% into playing this game. We don't need some premadonna who will quit on us. That's my biggest fear. If he had the moxie of Mayfield, I don't care his politics, even though I don't like them, would want him as our QB in a heartbeat. Problem is he doesn't seem to care.

Where does this lack of passion for football talk come from? 

Hard to believe a guy that has practiced enough to develop such great passing techniques lacks passion for the game? Or takes the hits that he has lacks passion? 

[flgreen]

[C Mart]

4 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

This 1 of latest mock from si. 

1. Cleveland: Sam Darnold, QB, USC
Darnold is not perfect, but he’s still a damn good prospect. And when GM John Dorsey is looking for a leader he’s comfortable tying his professional future to, I think this 20-year-old is the guy.

2. Buffalo (projected trade with N.Y. Giants): Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming
The Bills have done a nice job building capital for a bold swing. This is one. Allen’s potential is limitless, and his big frame and arm are made for Buffalo, though he has a ways to go.

3. N.Y. Jets (from Indianapolis): Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA
I like the personality fit and on-field match between OC Jeremy Bates and Rosen, who’s seen as a “not for everyone” type of kid. He is the most evolved and natural passer in this group.

4. Denver (projected trade with Cleveland, owner of Houston’s pick): Baker Mayfield, QB, Oklahoma
Denver had Mayfield at the Senior Bowl, and they have a starter, in Case Keenum, who lines up nicely with his style. So the Broncos throw another dart at the QB board.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nfl/2018/03/21/mock-draft-sam-darnold-browns-bills-trade-giants-josh-allen-broncos-trade-browns-baker-mayfield

Highly doubt Giants drop all the way down to 12. Just don’t see it. They’d lose out on Barkley, Chubb and Nelson. All close to potential gold jacket wearers. 

[Beerfish]

There is risk for just about every player out there.

Watson just tore his knee up.

Wentz just tore his knee up.

We could draft a Qb and game one of the year he gets a concussion. 

It is a factor for sure but it is tough to know how much stock to put in it.

[Jetsplayer21]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Interesting.

I think we should all make our own. So some of us can go on a “ I told ya so “ tour later ha.    Is gambling not allowed here ? 

[peebag]

3 minutes ago, flgreen said:

"I'z thows dez ducks"

[68JET11]

2 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Where does this lack of passion for football talk come from? 

Hard to believe a guy that has practiced enough to develop such great passing techniques lacks passion for the game? Or takes the hits that he has lacks passion? 

from everything I've read online... who knows if it's the truth, but it's enough to make me think twice.

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Highly doubt Giants drop all the way down to 12. Just don’t see it. They’d lose out on Barkley, Chubb and Nelson. All close to potential gold jacket wearers. 

woa woa woa, c'mon man let them take a snap in the pros before fitting them for jackets.

[Jetsplayer21]

1 minute ago, C Mart said:

Highly doubt Giants drop all the way down to 12. Just don’t see it. They’d lose out on Barkley, Chubb and Nelson. All close to potential gold jacket wearers. 

Well unless they want a qb themselves, I don’t see them staying at 2. They will get a nice haul for 2nd pick. They are more than 1 player from being good. They may miss out on those guys but can really fill rest of their roster with the haul back. They could always trade back to 12, and back up a bit if 1 of those guys are right in front of them. 

[FidelioJet]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

There is risk for just about every player out there.

Watson just tore his knee up.

Wentz just tore his knee up.

We could draft a Qb and game one of the year he gets a concussion. 

It is a factor for sure but it is tough to know how much stock to put in it.

Watson was a big injury risk - he had tore his knee up before.  

While I agree it could happen to anyone - there are players that are simply more injury prone than others - bodies are more fragile, play the game more agressively.  etc...Seems to be Rosen's body is simply more fragile and that's what truly concerns me, you can't fix that.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

30 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Exactly.  This is a smoke screen.  It's not a big deal.

Did I ever tell you guys I had two concussions?

We already guessed.