Dilfer on Rosen

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, BCJet said:

My counter to this is what exactly does Drew Brees do that well that makes him a HOF...its his ability to consistently throw accurately.

I get everything you are saying but you have to be accurate to be successful, even someone like Cam Newton isnt successful until he gets into that 58+% area in the NFL and he was at 66% in his last year of college.

Even when Allen played "great" in the bowl game, he only completed 58% of his passes.  I understand that he will never be a rhythm passer and will be more of a guy who hits chunk plays down the field, but still, he has to get to 58% in the NFL to be successful and that worries me.

I see mayfield and I see someone that plays QB well.  He can move in the pocket, keeps his eyes downfield and is accurate from all areas inside or outside the pocket.  Isnt that what a QB needs to do?

Drew Brees’ arm is so much better than Mayfield’s though.  

[nycdan]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Allen was 7th in Comp % in the Mountain West, so, somehow the likes of Nick Stevens, Dru Brown, Ty Gangi, etc. were able to throw the ball to guys successfully despite limited talent.

I see a kid named Rypien in there as well.  Assume he's Mark's son?  What I like more is the last names of the three guys that finished below Allen in the ratings:  Love, Aaron, Rogers.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/conferences/statistics/player/_/id/17/mountain-west-conference

There's something very Illuminati about that.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You know, that’s interesting because you’ve got guys like Robert Kraft, Jeff Lurie, Arthur Blank, Howie Roseman and a handful of other Jewish people in influential roles across the league. Not that this would necessarily preclude such bias, obviously, but there is significant representation in the halls of power at least. I would imagine some of it is an anti-intellectual prejudice, considering most of the guys doing the scouting are knuckle-dragging, otherwise unemployable slobs too lazy to keep jobs as high school equipment managers. I’d also imagine Rosen being anti-Trump annoys a good swath of people in the scouting ranks. Jeff Pearlman was writing a book on the USFL, interviewing a bunch of old NFL players in the process, and he was struck by how many of them were die-hard, vocal Trump Guys, especially considering Trump single-handedly harpooned the USFL. Obviously, NFL front offices are littered with these same old, embittered NFL players, and the far majority of ownership is made up of billionaire Republican tax cheats. So I don’t know if it’s antisemitism as much as anti-intellectual, anti-liberal Kaepernick-induced PTSD. Then again, I’m always surprised to find out that anti-semitism is still a prominent ideological undercurrent in 2018, so what do I know. 

Completely agree with this. It's not anti-semitism as much as it's anti-intellectual mouth breathers who would be low paid blue collar guys if they didn't have a connection to football.

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

If you're good you can be a dick. If you suck and you're a dick you're Jimmy Clausen and will struggle to find work as a backup.

My favorite QB Story.   Dan Fouts, wayyyyy back, wore a hat to Chargers practices.

HMFiC            

Stood for Head Mother F****** in Charge

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Accuracy is consistency.  Steph Curry and I can make the same 3-pointer.  The fact that he can do it with regularity is what differentiates us.

 

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This calls for some @JiF braggadocio. 

I'm silky smooth and my jumper is unstoppable but Curry has range that I really cant touch.  I can drain it from deep but not half court with my normal shooting motion like it aint no thing. 

[ZachEY]

6 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I see a kid named Rypien in there as well.  Assume he's Mark's son?  What I like more is the last names of the three guys that finished below Allen in the ratings:  Love, Aaron, Rogers.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/conferences/statistics/player/_/id/17/mountain-west-conference

There's something very Illuminati about that.

 

Not Mark's son.  But, the Love Aaron Rogers thing is pretty cool.

[BCJet]

10 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Drew Brees’ arm is so much better than Mayfield’s though.  

I dont know about that.  Aside from hand size, which does help Brees arm strength, I dont think the differential is that huge

[Long Island Leprechaun]

12 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Accuracy is consistency.  Steph Curry and I can make the same 3-pointer.  The fact that he can do it with regularity is what differentiates us.

You can make that the definition, but it doesn't really get at what is actually going on -- also comparing a QB throwing to receiver to a basketball player hitting the basket is not useful; receptions involve a host of moving variables that only partially involve the QB. To me accuracy reflects the ability of the QB to put the ball in the best position for the receiver to catch it and ideally make a play. Then add in the types of throws that meet that criterion. Sure, consistent accuracy is the overall standard. And a reasonable one. We have all seen QB's who throw a lot of passes "in the vicinity" of the receiver, or throw behind them, or force them to come back to the ball, etc. I don't see that as Allen's issue. He has the capacity to place the ball with sharpness pretty much anywhere on the field. Some of those throws are not in the repertoire of any other QB prospects.. they just don't make them because they can't. So now the dilemma. Are the flashes of  high level accuracy, even on extremely difficult throws, enough to make up for the brain farts and poor judgment throws that impact consistency? Can the best of Josh Allen be reinforced and the immature Josh Allen be expunged? Big risk/big reward.

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Having been around the Nike Elite 11 competitions a lot, I remember Rosen getting criticism for his attitude.  He was questioning some play calls at times, acted as if he was Peyton Mannng already.  BUT, it was a competition setting, and it was competition.  Rosen wanted be be the unquestioned #1 guy in that group.  I remember some of the other coaches saying his football IQ was off the charts for a kid that age, and picked up the playbook as fast as anyone ever has at that competition.  This notion that because he comes from money that he will somehow not have the desire to excel is comical.  Kid wants to compete and be the best, plain and simple.  

 

I thought back in August that Rosen and Darnold were the two best prospects in this draft and then a clear drop to the next few.  Still feel that way.  Jets would be extremely fortunate to end up with Rosen.  

Give me Rosen  this year and a new head coach and coaching staff next year

[Philc1]

54 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

 For those of you that hate Sanchez he loved Sanchez and even called him a top 10 QB in the league in 2010.  I have always liked Dilfer and I agreed w/ him on Mark but most on here would disagree w/ what he said about mark.

Dilfer was also one of the few media people who said Matt Cassel wasn’t that good in 2008 when it was trendy to call him Steve Young 2.0

[bitonti]

6 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

The more I dwell on it, the more I have a gut feeling it’s Rosen or trade out..

hope im wrong.

the Jets didn't trade up to trade out 

cmon man 

 

***

 

if Dilfer said Rosen sucked on this vid there would be 3 pages talking about how Dilfer is an A hole 

***

here's my question, let's say he's right and Rosen is elite. Let's say it goes Darnold 1 and Rosen 2, then what? 

[BallinPB]

Alot of mocks have Allen going to the Browns at 1.  Either way, I would be on the phone with the Giants everyday trying to secure a deal to swap picks and secure Rosen and the Giants would be happy to secure Barkley at 3 if they are trying to win within the next couple of years.  

[BallinPB]

I honestly think the Giants will take Barkley but will try to get the Jets to give them a couple picks to swap.  They are banking on Eli for the next 3 years and why not?  The guy is durable and just like his brother will probably play until 40 or 41.  

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, BallinPB said:

I honestly think the Giants will take Barkley but will try to get the Jets to give them a couple picks to swap.  They are banking on Eli for the next 3 years and why not?  The guy is durable and just like his brother will probably play until 40 or 41.  

using that logic it's just as valid for the Jets to take Barkley and try to get better right away before everyone gets fired. Mac doesn't have 5 years on this gig. He probably has 2 if he's lucky.  and by the way the roster got much better during FA. there's no real reason why the Jets can't make the playoffs next year, if they had a little more fire power on offense. A QB 3 hanging out on the bench holding a clipboard is the best long term move, I don't know if any of these dudes are thinking long term 

[BallinPB]

Just now, bitonti said:

using that logic it's just as valid for the Jets to take Barkley and try to get better right away before everyone gets fired. Mac doesn't have 5 years on this gig. He probably has 2 if he's lucky. 

Absolutely not.  If you don't have a QB then getting a good RB doesnt make the team better right away.  Eli is better than all of the QBS on our roster and is a proven super bowl winner.  The two situations just don't compare.  

[RSJ]

Absolutely not.  If you don't have a QB then getting a good RB doesnt make the team better right away.  Eli is better than all of the QBS on our roster and is a proven super bowl winner.  The two situations just don't compare.  

 

Ask Jax or Dallas. Both teams turned it around pretty quick with high RB picks. If Allen and Mayfield are the only QBs left and the Jets picked Barkley I would be very happy. This place would explode - but it would be a good pick.

 

 

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[Patriot Killa]

18 minutes ago, bitonti said:

the Jets didn't trade up to trade out 

cmon man 

 

***

 

if Dilfer said Rosen sucked on this vid there would be 3 pages talking about how Dilfer is an A hole 

***

here's my question, let's say he's right and Rosen is elite. Let's say it goes Darnold 1 and Rosen 2, then what? 

I was referring to the Giants dude 

[jetstream23]

11 hours ago, nico002 said:

Pretty much a must listen 

 

Thanks for sharing.  Good stuff.  I'm still not sure on the guy but if he's there at 3 and Darnold and either of the other two are gone, I'm taking him.

[BallinPB]

Just now, RSJ said:

 

Ask Jax or Dallas. Both teams turned it around pretty quick with high RB picks. If Allen and Mayfield are the only QBs left and the Jets picked Barkley I would be very happy. This place would explode - but it would be a good pick.

 

 

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it works both ways.  You can ask Rams how it worked when they picked Todd Gurley who was a beast his rookie year yet the team only went 7-9 and then regressed in 2016 only to get better when they finally started a good QB in Goff.  

[RSJ]

it works both ways.  You can ask Rams how it worked when they picked Todd Gurley who was a beast his rookie year yet the team only went 7-9 and then regressed in 2016 only to get better when they finally started a good QB in Goff.  

The Rams were totally different. Think of how many games the Jets could have put on ice with a running back like Barkley last season.


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[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, RSJ said:

Maybe I will be wrong - but I get the feeling that if the Jets pass on Rosen it will be like passing on Marino all over again.


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Part of me thinks that as well. But some people are saying the same thing about passing on Allen.  We just don't know.

I think it's fair to say at least one of the two Josh's will be a homerun pick....just not sure which.

My biggest concern is whether the Jets can handle these QBs....any of them.  Do they have the right coaches and personalities to handle Rosen properly.  Do they have the right "QB guru" to work with Allen on mechanics, footwork, accuracy, etc.  I just don't know but history tells me we may not be able to get the best out of ANY QB that we select.  Hope I'm wrong.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

Ask Jax or Dallas. Both teams turned it around pretty quick with high RB picks. If Allen and Mayfield are the only QBs left and the Jets picked Barkley I would be very happy. This place would explode - but it would be a good pick.

 

 

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Jax took a QB 5th overall 3 years before they took Fournette. 

Dallas took a QB the same year they took Zeke and Romo was still in the picture.

Neither of them traded 3 2nd round picks to move for a RB and IMO Fournette and Zeke are much better pure RB's than Barkley who is probably a better WR than RB.

If the Jets traded all this stock for a RB, I will blow up the planet. 

 

 

[RSJ]

Part of me thinks that as well. But some people are saying the same thing about passing on Allen.  We just don't know.
I think it's fair to say at least one of the two Josh's will be a homerun pick....just not sure which.
My biggest concern is whether the Jets can handle these QBs....any of them.  Do they have the right coaches and personalities to handle Rosen properly.  Do they have the right "QB guru" to work with Allen on mechanics, footwork, accuracy, etc.  I just don't know but history tells me we may not be able to get the best out of ANY QB that we select.  Hope I'm wrong.

Our OC was just fired because he liked to pass the ball too much. I dont think your theory is that far off at all. Lol


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[BallinPB]

Just now, RSJ said:

 

The Rams were totally different. Think of how many games the Jets could have put on ice with a running back like Barkley last season.


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How is it different?  The Jets could put how many games on ice with Barkley last year?  Sure we couldve won a few more games and went to 7-9 just like the Rams in 2015.  The Rams had a better defense than us.  Slightly worse QB in Nick Foles and Case Keenum that particular year.  

[bitonti]

Just now, JiF said:

IMO Fournette and Zeke are much better pure RB's than Barkley who is probably a better WR than RB.

If the Jets traded all this stock for a RB, I will blow up the planet. 

1

Barkley is the best RB prospect for 25 years. He's not a WR. and he should, being better than Zeke and Fournette, go higher than 4 which is the RB ceiling in recent years. 

as for the "stock" picks are just picks these guys were going to screw those picks into the ground like they did with the Devin Smith and Hack picks. At least they recognize their shortcomings.

maybe The Jets should trade 2nd round picks every year 

[RSJ]

Jax took a QB 5th overall 3 years before they took Fournette. 
Dallas took a QB the same year they took Zeke and Romo was still in the picture.
Neither of them traded 3 2nd round picks to move for a RB and IMO Fournette and Zeke are much better pure RB's than Barkley who is probably a better WR than RB.
If the Jets traded all this stock for a RB, I will blow up the planet. 
 
 

Barkley will be the next Tomlinson. He is way safer than any of these QBs. Literally no NFL team went to his pro day. He is a complete no brainer pick and the best RB prospect since AP.


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[jack48]

3 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I don’t know what this means, but it is possibly my favorite post ever

Ha ha.  Just a bad joke about a sit com puppet.  Kind of reminded me of Sancho.

[RSJ]

How is it different?  The Jets could put how many games on ice with Barkley last year?  Sure we couldve won a few more games and went to 7-9 just like the Rams in 2015.  The Rams had a better defense than us.  Slightly worse QB in Nick Foles and Case Keenum that particular year.  

The Rams had terrible coaching. As evident by the success of the players on that team in the following years. Look the Jets traded up because they love three players. Why would it be so shocking that the consensus best player in this draft is one of them?


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[JustInFudge]

Just now, bitonti said:

Barkley is the best RB prospect for 25 years. He's not a WR. and he should, being better than Zeke and Fournette, go higher than 4 which is the RB ceiling in recent years. 

as for the "stock" picks are just picks these guys were going to screw those picks into the ground like they did with the Devin Smith and Hack picks. At least they recognize their shortcomings.

maybe The Jets should trade 2nd round picks every year 

Last year, Fournette was Bo Jackson.  Year before, Zeke was Emmitt Smith. Year before, Gurley was Eric Dickerson.

Get out of here with this best RB in 25 years bull sh*t.  The dude had one of the most underwhelming college careers for a "generational talent" I've ever seen.  He's no where near the best RB prospect in 25 years.  We're talking about a guy who rushed for 35 yards on 14 attempts vs. ******* Rutgers for christ sake.

As for your 2nd round picks comment, it's stupid and you know it is.

 

[BallinPB]

Just now, RSJ said:

 

The Rams had terrible coaching. As evident by the success of the players on that team in the following years. Look the Jets traded up because they love three players. Why would it be so shocking that the consensus best player in this draft is one of them?


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and we have great coaching right?  What success do you speak of by the way?  The success last year when they finally started a good QB?  They were 7-9 in 15, 4-12 in 16 and finally righted the ship last year when they had a good QB.  You don't trade up only 3 spots and give away a boat load of picks to draft a RB.  Running backs do make an impact but obviously not on the same level as if you draft a QB.  

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, RSJ said:

 

Barkley will be the next Tomlinson. He is way safer than any of these QBs. Literally no NFL team went to his pro day. He is a complete no brainer pick and the best RB prospect since AP.


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5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Last year, Fournette was Bo Jackson.  Year before, Zeke was Emmitt Smith. Year before, Gurley was Eric Dickerson.

Get out of here with this best RB in 25 years bull sh*t.  The dude had one of the most underwhelming college careers for a "generational talent" I've ever seen.  He's no where near the best RB prospect in 25 years.  We're talking about a guy who rushed for 35 yards on 14 attempts vs. ******* Rutgers for christ sake.

As for your 2nd round picks comment, it's stupid and you know it is.

 

 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Actually, the two things I really liked about the Dilfer interview was 1) that Rosen is a bit of a dick, but so are a lot of great QB's; and 2) Rosen doesn't like Dilfer ---  I love that because Rosen probably (rightfully) thinks WTF does Trent Dilfer know about being a successful NFL QB - he sucked.

He did win a superbowl.  Dilfer is one of the smarter guys out there.  If Rosen's being a Di-- because he thinks Dilfer wasn't a good NFL QB - a guy who had a relatively long, solid career - then he's a lot worse than any of us think.

[varjet]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

I don’t put too much into stats for these kids.  I think if you dropped Allen in to Oklahoma’s offense you would see a plus 60% completion percentage.  I think Allen is a bit of a late bloomer compared to some of these other guys.  It’s not like he is wildly inaccurate, he is just inconsistent at times.  Which a lot of these kids are at this stage.  Mechanically he isn’t bad at all, he needs some NFL coaching and some reps.  He can get outside the pocket and make plays and if you need him to stay in the pocket he can beat you there too.  If the choice is between Allen and Mayfield, there is no way I’m taking Mayfield, who I feel is limited in what he will be able to do in the NFL.  

Allen's Pro Day will be telling.  Hack could not even hit a swing pass in OTAs.   If he can hit 75% of his passes at his Pro Day, he is top 3.  He could epically fail, but he has enough sturdiness and atheticism, and does not present the Rosen issues, to make him pickable by Stodgy NFL types.  

A few recent examples will be dispositive:

• Is Allen worse at t this point than Bortles or Cutler was?  Probably.  They were made into QBs that could get the job done.
• Manziel, in addition to his drug issues, has a family that is very wealthy.  He shares that problem with Rosen.  

[MDL_JET]

Is there anything recently with Rosen commenting on his time at the Elite 11 with Dilfer?? Curious what his response would be. 

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Barkley is the best RB prospect for 25 years. He's not a WR. and he should, being better than Zeke and Fournette, go higher than 4 which is the RB ceiling in recent years. 

as for the "stock" picks are just picks these guys were going to screw those picks into the ground like they did with the Devin Smith and Hack picks. At least they recognize their shortcomings.

maybe The Jets should trade 2nd round picks every year 

Nice PFF article out today claims Barkley is a great receiving back, but just an average pure running back. So if you’re drafting him to be a plow horse, it’s not the way to go. And if that’s the case, why would you draft him at 2?