Article - Giants already have their future QB in Davis Webb

[jetstream23]

Interesting, but I'm not sure I buy what Trent is selling here.   Three reasons...

1. Webb was drafted by the previous regime who is now gone.  There may be no strong internal advocate for him.  He also took no snaps at all last year.

2. Hiring Pat Shurmur with a plan to run the WCO lends to the drafting of Josh Rosen.

3. As the new GM, Gettleman has to try to win now AND plan for the future.  I can't imagine he wants to forever be known as the guy that didn't take a QB at #2 in one of the best QB drafts in history....simply because Eli was "only" 37 years old.

 

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/03/giants_have_their_future_quarterback_davis_webb_ge.html

Giants already 'have their future quarterback' | Why Davis Webb is set up to succeed

Updated Mar 3; Posted Mar 3

Just because Trent Dilfer is high on Josh Rosen and his ability to handle the New York spotlight doesn't mean he thinks the Giantsshould draft the UCLA star.

Actually, the sharp-minded quarterback analyst says the Giants are in the fortunate position to pass on Rosen, USC's Sam Darnold, Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield and Wyoming's Josh Allen as the eventual successor to Eli Manning.

Rosen, Mayfield and Allen will throw in front of scouts Saturday at the NFL Combine, while Darnold opted to wait for USC's Pro Day. 

"I think they have their future quarterback," Dilfer told NJ Advance Media in a 1-on-1 interview, "given enough time and given that they have a two-time Super Bowl champion to bridge a couple years to integrate that guy in."

Dilfer is referring to a future with Davis Webb, the second-year pro who inexplicably took zero regular-season snaps as a rookie during a 3-13 season.

Webb was drafted in the third round last April by a regime - general manager Jerry Reese, vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross and coach Ben McAdoo - no longer in place. All were fired in December.

"Giving Davis a year or two more to develop and learn the ropes and kind of establish himself in the locker room and play well in preseason, it helps your team," Dilfer said. "Now you don't have to go overpay at the position, or draft and roll the dice."

The Giants already have named Manning, 37, the starter for 2018.Though the NFL has restrictions on coach-player interaction at this time of year, Manning quickly got to work studying new coach Pat Shurmur's West Coast offense.

Had the Giants been a .500 team drafting in the middle of the first round, Webb's place as next in line to Manning might be more secure without any more or less of a contribution from him.

But because the Giants hold the No. 2 pick - their highest since 1981 - the temptation exists to draft a top quarterback to leapfrog Webb.

"I really like the combination of Eli and Davis Webb," Dilfer said. "I might be on an island there, but I think Eli still has a lot of good stuff in the tank.

"Especially considering so much of this game now is from the neck up. Eli has plenty of talent, plenty of juice. He just needs more answers to the test. He needs to be able to win the game intellectually as much as physically. I think this system will allow him to do that."

Mike Shula is the new Giants offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, filling two jobs held last season by Mike Sullivan and Frank Cignetti, respectively.

In addition to coaching Panthers star Cam Newton to a NFL MVP award, Shula has pulled career years out of Dilfer, David Garrard and Jay Fielder.

[King P]

How do we even know the Giants are as high on Rosen is we are?

I feel like we're all just assuming they are since we keep talking about how dumb it would be for the Giants to pass on a QB at 2

[Patriot Killa]

Good read..hoping this is what Gettleman is thinking too.

[Lupz27]

41 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Interesting, but I'm not sure I buy what Trent is selling here.   Three reasons...

1. Webb was drafted by the previous regime who is now gone.  There may be no strong internal advocate for him.  He also took no snaps at all last year.

2. Hiring Pat Shurmur with a plan to run the WCO lends to the drafting of Josh Rosen.

3. As the new GM, Gettleman has to try to win now AND plan for the future.  I can't imagine he wants to forever be known as the guy that didn't take a QB at #2 in one of the best QB drafts in history....simply because Eli was "only" 37 years old.

 

 

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/03/giants_have_their_future_quarterback_davis_webb_ge.html

Giants already 'have their future quarterback' | Why Davis Webb is set up to succeed

Updated Mar 3; Posted Mar 3

Just because Trent Dilfer is high on Josh Rosen and his ability to handle the New York spotlight doesn't mean he thinks the Giantsshould draft the UCLA star.

Actually, the sharp-minded quarterback analyst says the Giants are in the fortunate position to pass on Rosen, USC's Sam Darnold, Oklahoma's Baker Mayfield and Wyoming's Josh Allen as the eventual successor to Eli Manning.

Rosen, Mayfield and Allen will throw in front of scouts Saturday at the NFL Combine, while Darnold opted to wait for USC's Pro Day. 

"I think they have their future quarterback," Dilfer told NJ Advance Media in a 1-on-1 interview, "given enough time and given that they have a two-time Super Bowl champion to bridge a couple years to integrate that guy in."

Dilfer is referring to a future with Davis Webb, the second-year pro who inexplicably took zero regular-season snaps as a rookie during a 3-13 season.

Webb was drafted in the third round last April by a regime - general manager Jerry Reese, vice president of player evaluation Marc Ross and coach Ben McAdoo - no longer in place. All were fired in December.

"Giving Davis a year or two more to develop and learn the ropes and kind of establish himself in the locker room and play well in preseason, it helps your team," Dilfer said. "Now you don't have to go overpay at the position, or draft and roll the dice."

The Giants already have named Manning, 37, the starter for 2018.Though the NFL has restrictions on coach-player interaction at this time of year, Manning quickly got to work studying new coach Pat Shurmur's West Coast offense.

Had the Giants been a .500 team drafting in the middle of the first round, Webb's place as next in line to Manning might be more secure without any more or less of a contribution from him.

But because the Giants hold the No. 2 pick - their highest since 1981 - the temptation exists to draft a top quarterback to leapfrog Webb.

"I really like the combination of Eli and Davis Webb," Dilfer said. "I might be on an island there, but I think Eli still has a lot of good stuff in the tank.

"Especially considering so much of this game now is from the neck up. Eli has plenty of talent, plenty of juice. He just needs more answers to the test. He needs to be able to win the game intellectually as much as physically. I think this system will allow him to do that."

Mike Shula is the new Giants offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, filling two jobs held last season by Mike Sullivan and Frank Cignetti, respectively.

In addition to coaching Panthers star Cam Newton to a NFL MVP award, Shula has pulled career years out of Dilfer, David Garrard and Jay Fielder.

Davis Webb >>>>> Baker Mayfield 

If Webb grabbed his crotch after firing a TD pass vs USC maybe he would have went RD 1.

[Lupz27]

43 minutes ago, King P said:

How do we even know the Giants are as high on Rosen is we are?

I feel like we're all just assuming they are since we keep talking about how dumb it would be for the Giants to pass on a QB at 2

I love Rosen for the Jets, BUT if I’m the Giants I have Eli, I have Webb, I have Shurmer, and Keenum most likely becoming available in 2 years if not 1 IF Eli breaks down, take that, and then throw in the health concerns with Rosen I would definitely be hesitant to use that pick on him, again the Jets have nothing at the position nothing so they have to roll the dice if Rosen is available when they pick.

Now with that said if I’m the Giants I’m not trading out of 2 until after the Browns pick because there is no chance in Hell I’m not cashing in on the Browns mistake IF they select someone other then Sam Darnold, Darnold is as clean as it gets, and you don’t let that type of prospect pass you by because of the reasons I said it makes sense to pass on Rosen.  Rosen could very easily be the best QB 5-10 years from now, but he has more risk then Darnold does, and that makes it a easier pass for the Giants considering their situation IMO.

[FidelioJet]

IMO - No way the Giants pass on Allen - just too much potential therev- they'll take a QB and they'll take Allen.  

Giants aren't taking Rosen - after the success of Iron Man Eli - they're not got going to draft an injury prone guy.

We'll leave that to the Jets...

[sciond]

living in Charlotte I can say this after watching Gettleman build a team

Gettlemanm> Mac

so we will see

[T0mShane]

I’d think it’d be better to have two QBs that can play than it would be to have Davis Webb and Bradley Chubb. 

[Dcat]

5 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

I love Rosen for the Jets, BUT if I’m the Giants I have Eli, I have Webb, I have Shurmer, and Keenum most likely becoming available in 2 years if not 1 IF Eli breaks down, take that, and then throw in the health concerns with Rosen I would definitely be hesitant to use that pick on him, again the Jets have nothing at the position nothing so they have to roll the dice if Rosen is available when they pick.

Now with that said if I’m the Giants I’m not trading out of 2 until after the Browns pick because there is no chance in Hell I’m not cashing in on the Browns mistake IF they select someone other then Sam Darnold, Darnold is as clean as it gets, and you don’t let that type of prospect pass you by because of the reasons I said it makes sense to pass on Rosen.  Rosen could very easily be the best QB 5-10 years from now, but he has more risk then Darnold does, and that makes it a easier pass for the Giants considering their situation IMO.

I think the Giants will sit tight at #2 if their draft board is ranked like this:

1. Darnold

2. Barkley

3. Chubb

If for some insane reason, Cleveland fails to pick Darnold, then he'll be a Giant.  If they choose Darnold, then the Giants are in great shape to either take Barkley or trade down for a bevy of picks for some team who is desperate for Rosen.  

[Augustiniak]

I think the giants can play it coy until they're on the clock and then extort extra picks from the bills. Ultimately the bills will have to figure out how desperate they are.  

[bitonti]

The internet is assuming the 4 QBs in the top 4 picks or whatever

I suspect it will be more like 2 QBs out of top 4 when it actually happens 

[ChuckkieB]

I predict the Giants call the Jets bluff and get them to trade another pick to move up to #2 to get their QB of choice.  Mac already showed some guts to get to #3 so if the QB you want is staring you in the face, you need to go that last mile to get him IMO.

[Beerfish]

I hope the giants feel this way.  Webb = Hackenburg or Tom Savage.

[bitonti]

Just now, ChuckkieB said:

I predict the Giants call the Jets bluff and get them to trade another pick to move up to #2 to get their QB of choice.  Mac already showed some guts to get to #3 so if the QB you want is staring you in the face, you need to go that last mile to get him IMO.

to get from 3 to 2 on the Jimmy Johnson chart is a 2nd round pick (which the Jets obviously can't trade) On the Harvard chart is like a 6th rounder. The giants are not going to cut a discount even if this trade was possible the Jets don't have the ammo. They are staying at 3. 

[Maxman]

Good thing the Giants got that extra game film on Geno Smith last year.

[Warfish]

I will believe the Giants will pass on a QB (or a trade down for picks) when it happens, not before.

With that said, if they stay at #2 and pick a Non-QB, thats good for us, so lets hope for that.  

Hell, lets hope Cleveland goes for Barklet at #1, and the Giants go Chubb at #2 while we're at it!  Nothing wrong with hoping for the best!

[CTM]

20 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The internet is assuming the 4 QBs in the top 4 picks or whatever

I suspect it will be more like 2 QBs out of top 4 when it actually happens 

It's hard to say, the league is so QB dependent and more and more of the old ground and pound guys are making their way out of the league.  I think only Rosen and Darnold are top flight prospects but wouldn't be shocked to see 4 QB's in top 5

[JetFaninMI]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I will believe the Giants will pass on a QB (or a trade down for picks) when it happens, not before.

With that said, if they stay at #2 and pick a Non-QB, thats good for us, so lets hope for that.  

Hell, lets hope Cleveland goes for Barklet at #1, and the Giants go Chubb at #2 while we're at it!  Nothing wrong with hoping for the best!

I think this may happen. Even if the Giants take a QB at 2 Cleveland will still be able to get a QB at 4.

[MDL_JET]

 

 

[ZachEY]

7 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

1. Webb was drafted by the previous regime who is now gone.  There may be no strong internal advocate for him.  He also took no snaps at all last year.

New Regime, Old Regime... Does any regime pass on a potential franchise QB when you have a shot at one, and your starter is 37, just because you have Davis Webb on your roster?

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, CTM said:

It's hard to say, the league is so QB dependent and more and more of the old ground and pound guys are making their way out of the league.  I think only Rosen and Darnold are top flight prospects but wouldn't be shocked to see 4 QB's in top 5

There's an argument to be made that the only top 3 picks should be QBs and elite athletic freak pass rushers.  If you're sitting at the top, and don't want the QB, there's someone out there who will usually pay for him.

[CTM]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

There's an argument to be made that the only top 3 picks should be QBs and elite athletic freak pass rushers.  If you're sitting at the top, and don't want the QB, there's someone out there who will usually pay for him.

I agree completely. I was referring more to the idea that 4 of top 5 could go QB this year which has never happened before. I'm don't think we've seen even 3 of 5 go first but I'm not as sure about that. 

I don't look at 2 of these 4 guys as top 5 picks, so if 4 of 5 go top 5 I think it would be a combo of 4 good prospects and the NFL evolving a bit. If Mayfield in particular goes top 5 that would signal some teams are dropping old norms about what a franchise QB should look like (however it would be counter balanced by Josh Allen) 

[ZachEY]

17 minutes ago, CTM said:

I agree completely. I was referring more to the idea that 4 of top 5 could go QB this year which has never happened before. I'm don't think we've seen even 3 of 5 go first but I'm not as sure about that. 

I don't look at 2 of these 4 guys as top 5 picks, so if 4 of 5 go top 5 I think it would be a combo of 4 good prospects and the NFL evolving a bit. If Mayfield in particular goes top 5 that would signal some teams are dropping old norms about what a franchise QB should look like (however it would be counter balanced by Josh Allen) 

I agree that there are only 2 that are top 5 worthy.  But, the fact that you're at risk of getting none if you pick after 4th, will cause teams to trade up.  So, the only question is, do teams prefer Mayfield/Allen to not getting a QB, and I think with the Bills and Cardinals and Broncos and maybe even Dolphins out there, teams are going to do what it takes.

[nycdan]

19 minutes ago, CTM said:

I agree completely. I was referring more to the idea that 4 of top 5 could go QB this year which has never happened before. I'm don't think we've seen even 3 of 5 go first but I'm not as sure about that. 

I don't look at 2 of these 4 guys as top 5 picks, so if 4 of 5 go top 5 I think it would be a combo of 4 good prospects and the NFL evolving a bit. If Mayfield in particular goes top 5 that would signal some teams are dropping old norms about what a franchise QB should look like (however it would be counter balanced by Josh Allen) 

Couch, McNabb, Akili Smith went 1-2-3 one year.  I think that's the only time we saw 3 of top 5.

[nycdan]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

I agree that there are only 2 that are top 5 worthy.  But, the fact that you're at risk of getting none if you pick after 4th, will cause teams to trade up.  So, the only question is, do teams prefer Mayfield/Allen to not getting a QB, and I think with the Bills and Cardinals and Broncos and maybe even Dolphins out there, teams are going to do what it takes.

Agreed.  At the end of the day, nobody really cares that Carson Wentz went 2 and Aaron Rodgers went 24.  All that matters is if you've got a FQB.  Overdrafting is just not worth worrying about.  I'm sure every one of the 23 teams that didn't draft Rodgers, including those in the top-5 would love to have had a mulligan on that draft.

[JiFtheOracle]

If this is all a smoke screen and Darnold and Rosen got #1 and #2...

do you take Mayfield or field calls at #3? I dont love Mayfield so I'd be almost inclined to hear what they could get to trade out of #3.  

 

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Couch, McNabb, Akili Smith went 1-2-3 one year.  I think that's the only time we saw 3 of top 5.

Ha, good memory!  And 5 went top 12. 3 of which busted and 2 of top 3.

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, ChuckkieB said:

I predict the Giants call the Jets bluff and get them to trade another pick to move up to #2 to get their QB of choice.  Mac already showed some guts to get to #3 so if the QB you want is staring you in the face, you need to go that last mile to get him IMO.

I disagree. Macc is also very greedy with draft picks. I think he prefers Rosen but knows there are injury concerns with him and would be happy with Allen (who happens to also check off all of his boxes). So Macc will sit tight and let the Giants decide if they want to take a player (be it Rosen, Allen, Chubb, or Barkley)  or trade their draft pick. In the end Macc is in perfect position. He is pretty much guaranteed to get Allen, Rosen or Darnold. It's simple math. And it was a fantastic move to trade up to 3 (giving up a 2nd round pick he got for Richardson, a 2nd round pick that could be fairly pedestrian if the Jets win a few more games this season -they should- and their own second rounder).   

[MDL_JET]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

If this is all a smoke screen and Darnold and Rosen got #1 and #2...

do you take Mayfield or field calls at #3? I dont love Mayfield so I'd be almost inclined to hear what they could get to trade out of #3.  

 

And then do what at QB? I would hate that scenario but i'd still wanna take Allen or Mayfield.

[#27TheDominator]

8 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

"Giving Davis a year or two more to develop and learn the ropes and kind of establish himself in the locker room and play well in preseason, it helps your team," Dilfer said. "Now you don't have to go overpay at the position, or draft and roll the dice."

IMO this is very flawed thinking.  Giving Webb another 2 years to develop means that you have him under contract for one year as an NFL QB.  The next year you are paying him $26M (see Garoppolo, Jimmy).  How the **** does that save you any money?

[artemusclyde]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

IMO - No way the Giants pass on Allen - just too much potential therev- they'll take a QB and they'll take Allen.  

Giants aren't taking Rosen - after the success of Iron Man Eli - they're not got going to draft an injury prone guy.

We'll leave that to the Jets...

This is my biggest fear with Rosen. The guy has been hurt in college and in high school. Hell it was an injury that lead him to switch sports and play football instead of tennis. 

[JiFtheOracle]

19 minutes ago, MDL_JET said:

And then do what at QB? I would hate that scenario but i'd still wanna take Allen or Mayfield.

Honestly, I'd probably just take Mayfield but if you got ransom for him:

Lamar Jackson, Mason Rudolph, Kyle Lauletta, Luke Faulk - I just dont think the difference between any of these guys after the top 2 are that great to pass on a haul if offered. 

[Philc1]

10 minutes ago, artemusclyde said:

This is my biggest fear with Rosen. The guy has been hurt in college and in high school. Hell it was an injury that lead him to switch sports and play football instead of tennis. 

I get this concern but if we pass on Rosen at 3 that would be so freaking dumb

[FTL Jet Fan]

I don't believe anything this time of year until something actually happens. Nobody knows what any GM is going to do but if we pass on a QB after making the move to 3 something is terribly wrong. I like the Bridgewater  signing but he might not even be ready for the start of the workouts. He is an unknown from a health standpoint. The only thing we can do is hope Mac hits on the right QB whoever that may be.

Every year we all say for the most part how good this quarterback class is going to be and we need to draft a QB in the 1st, then when it comes down to it we all see the flaws and  it turns into this quarterback class is not that great scenario.  In my opinion it's QB or bust after trading up to 3. 

 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

If this is all a smoke screen and Darnold and Rosen got #1 and #2...

do you take Mayfield or field calls at #3? I dont love Mayfield so I'd be almost inclined to hear what they could get to trade out of #3.  

Can you do both?  Someone offers you a ton, you take it.  Otherwise, you take him.