Augustiniak Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, PS17 said: Best case scenario is Buffalo gives up a ton of draft capital to trade up to 2 and then takes future bust Allen, leaving us with Rosen at 3. I think it would be the height of stupidity for the Giants to pass on Rosen. They’re never again gonna have a shot like this to get their guy, and they can groom him behind Eli for a year. Agreed. The giants have a huge decision to make, b/c if they take Rosen they really should bench Eli right away so it's not as simple as the jets taking Rosen. But if in the end mccags traded up for allen, I'm coming around to this. But there's still a chance the giants take barkley, chubb or trade out to buffalo who takes allen. If I'm putting odds on who the jets get, it's something like, Rosen 50%, allen 40%, darnold 5%, mayfield 5%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 30 minutes ago, jetspenguin said: lol people love to push this narrative that Bowles would prefer to start a veteran and hates starting rookies. Unfortunatelty there is no reasoning behind it. hahahaha we have NOT had a rookie or young QB good enough to play. You cant point to petty of hack because they BOTH SUCK!!! I wouldnt play them either but if rosen or mayfield is good enough to play and clearly out play the vets in camp and preseason they will play. PERIOD That all sounds reasonable. On the other hand, Bowles anointed McCown the starter before training camp last season (hence why he took no snaps) and was said to have done the same already this season (although that is still unsubstantiated AFAIK). Maybe he'll surprise us, but whereas some coaches come out and say QB is an open competition, that does not appear to be Bowles' MO. So yeah, there is reasoning behind it. Maybe not completely accurate, but there is some meat on this bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, PS17 said: Best case scenario is Buffalo gives up a ton of draft capital to trade up to 2 and then takes future bust Allen, leaving us with Rosen at 3. I think it would be the height of stupidity for the Giants to pass on Rosen. They’re never again gonna have a shot like this to get their guy, and they can groom him behind Eli for a year. Agreed with the latter part. Yes you could also argue that they will never have a chance to draft an RB like Barkley. Or that their OL is sooooo bad that trading down for Nelson and a few more picks is the best way to improve the team for the next 3 years. I'm not completely sure that GMs take a 10-year view of the future like fans do, although owners certainly should. Might be wishful thinking on my part, but I'm not sold that Rosen is 100% locked in as their guy. Sadly, I do fear it's more than 50% likely though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, nycdan said: That all sounds reasonable. On the other hand, Bowles anointed McCown the starter before training camp last season (hence why he took no snaps) and was said to have done the same already this season (although that is still unsubstantiated AFAIK). Maybe he'll surprise us, but whereas some coaches come out and say QB is an open competition, that does not appear to be Bowles' MO. So yeah, there is reasoning behind it. Maybe not completely accurate, but there is some meat on this bone. Here's what i think about that - i think bowles knows he's on the outs and that's his attempt to assert his power within the organization. It seems this offseason is much more about the johnsons and mccagnan than it is about bowles and the 'pieces' he wants for 'his' defense. They sign Pryor, not a bowles signing. There will be pressure to develop and start a rookie qb, emphasize offense, have a new face of the franchise, all of which will ultimately put more scrutiny on the ultra conservative decisions that bowles makes in games. It all seems like the team is shifting into the current nfl thinking that you need a real qb to win and an offense that can score more than 2 tds per game. Guys like bates are suddenly way more critical to the team's success and i wonder if the johnsons have had conversations with mccagnan about the type of head coach he would want for the new qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: Here's what i think about that - i think bowles knows he's on the outs and that's his attempt to assert his power within the organization. It seems this offseason is much more about the johnsons and mccagnan than it is about bowles and the 'pieces' he wants for 'his' defense. They sign Pryor, not a bowles signing. There will be pressure to develop and start a rookie qb, emphasize offense, have a new face of the franchise, all of which will ultimately put more scrutiny on the ultra conservative decisions that bowles makes in games. It all seems like the team is shifting into the current nfl thinking that you need a real qb to win and an offense that can score more than 2 tds per game. Guys like bates are suddenly way more critical to the team's success and i wonder if the johnsons have had conversations with mccagnan about the type of head coach he would want for the new qb. Signed 1 wide receiver coming off a down year, C coming off injury, and the rest was D in free agency. Our new highest paid player is a CB. There is tons to be done on offense. And how is Pryor not a bowles signing? Because he plays WR ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Signed 1 wide receiver coming off a down year, C coming off injury, and the rest was D in free agency. Our new highest paid player is a CB. There is tons to be done on offense. And how is Pryor not a bowles signing? Because he plays WR ? Yes. If bowles were in charge of FA he'd have beefed up the o-line more and thrown more money at a better rb and blocking TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Augustiniak said: Yes. If bowles were in charge of FA he'd have beefed up the o-line more and thrown more money at a better rb and blocking TE. Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, RESNewYork said: Signed 1 wide receiver coming off a down year, C coming off injury, and the rest was D in free agency. Our new highest paid player is a CB. There is tons to be done on offense. And how is Pryor not a bowles signing? Because he plays WR ? Are you guys really arm wrestling over peanuts here? To be completely fair, the top offensive players in FA either were not coming here from the jump or really just weren’t that special. It was a lackluster class if we are taking all of it into consideration. other than that.. Lol what’s the point of trying to pin the responsibilities of signing players on one person in the organization? Bowles is the coach and Macc is the GM..they probably talk and agree upon who they should add to the team. The realty of If is..the final say goes to Macc because that is what he is paid to do. The players he signs is a reflection on his success or failure...what is the point in pinning signings to guys though? did I miss something in this conversation other than that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RESNewYork Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: Are you guys really arm wrestling over peanuts here? To be completely fair, the top offensive players in FA either were not coming here from the jump or really just weren’t that special. It was a lackluster class if we are taking all of it into consideration. other than that.. Lol what’s the point of trying to pin the responsibilities of signing players on one person in the organization? Bowles is the coach and Macc is the GM..they probably talk and agree upon who they should add to the team. The realty of If is..the final say goes to Macc because that is what he is paid to do. The players he signs is a reflection on his success or failure...what is the point in pinning signings to guys though? did I miss something in this conversation other than that? Not from me. Just commenting on the fake narrative that fans create abouts bowles which stems from their hatred of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 52 minutes ago, PS17 said: Steve Tisch and John Mara just had dinner with Rosen, and you can tell from his answers in this interview that he really liked them, and I’m sure they liked him. I think he’s the Giants’ guy, unfortunately for us. I don’t see the Tisch and Mara lettting Gettleman pass on Rosen and letting him fall to the Jets. Nope, Nope, Nope. Gettleman’s job is to win games with maybe a 2 year horizon. He should pick Barkley. But the owners have customers. They take Rosen, he is brilliant in NY, and he sits for one year and is told to shut up. If Eli does not win the SB the transition begins. Rosen gets a year to fully heal his concussions (which matters) and continue to build his strength while the Giants build their line. That is what I would do. Why would the Jets be signing Pryor and looking at Suh? They think they are gong to get Rosen or Allen and could be competitive next year. Maybe Allen let’s defenders bounce of of him, run around in the pocket despite the Jets OL, and chucks the ball down field to Pryor and Anderson? Why doesn’t that work? Suh makes the defense respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, PS17 said: Steve Tisch and John Mara just had dinner with Rosen, and you can tell from his answers in this interview that he really liked them, and I’m sure they liked him. I think he’s the Giants’ guy, unfortunately for us. My takeaway, too. He sounds like he believes he’s going to be a Giant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai Jet Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 55 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said: Are we not talking about Rosen here? I guess not. lol He lost me too. Guess he couldn't keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peteo Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Until draft day who is going where is very much up in the air. Some team could make the Giants an offer they can't refuse or they may take Rosen themselves. Until the Jets are on the clock and Rosen is still available then I say we get him unless of course our brilliant does something DUMB. With this group I wouldn't discount anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, T0mShane said: My takeaway, too. He sounds like he believes he’s going to be a Giant. So do we get the giant or the midget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: So do we get the giant or the midget? Were I a betting man, I think they take Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Just now, T0mShane said: Were I a betting man, I think they take Allen. IDK. It comes down to Bates. Who does he think can run his system better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Just now, T0mShane said: Were I a betting man, I think they take Allen. It's difficult to see it otherwise. If he's even decent in the intermediate game, his arm will change how they can attack the field and use the rbs in the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Based on his pro day and other reports it seems that the big difference between Allen and Hackenberg is that Allen can make all the throws more consistently than Hackenberg, but not consistently enough to lock him in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Hurts my soul to know Rosen is probably going to the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Just now, Patriot Killa said: Hurts my soul to know Rosen is probably going to the Giants. Reports say they prefer Darnold to Rosen. I suppose if Darnold goes 1, Rosen could go 2, but where is the Rosen to Giants thing coming from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: IDK. It comes down to Bates. Who does he think can run his system better? I think it’ll come down to Todd liking the nicer kid better, but who knows? Bates is still picking pine needles out of his ass crack. I wouldn’t let him pick the wallpaper on his office computer. 4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said: It's difficult to see it otherwise. If he's even decent in the intermediate game, his arm will change how they can attack the field and use the rbs in the passing game. Ehhhhh. If they take Allen, I don’t think he plays until 2019 and even then it’ll be for a new coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Just now, T0mShane said: I think it’ll come down to Todd liking the nicer kid better, but who knows? Bates is still picking pine needles out of his ass crack. I wouldn’t let him pick the wallpaper on his office computer. Ehhhhh. If they take Allen, I don’t think he plays until 2019 and even then it’ll be for a new coach. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Augustiniak said: It could well be that darnold/Rosen/allen go top 3, then the browns take barkley or chubb, and then if the broncos want mayfield they have him. It would be nice if the bills and dolphins are shut out of this qb thing. My guess is this is exactly the way it plays out - The Giants aren't going to pass on a QB - I just don't buy it. Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Barkely, Mayfield, Chubb - in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 28 minutes ago, T0mShane said: My takeaway, too. He sounds like he believes he’s going to be a Giant. image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/jetsb_logo.gif New York Jets: Josh Rosen, QB, UCLA image: http://walterfootball.com/college/UCLA_logo.gif The Jets will be looking for a new quarterback, and that is obvious in the wake of their trade to No. 3 overall (go here for my NFL Trade Grades.) Their preference could be Josh Allen, as Charlie Campbell pointed out in his Senior Bowl Rumor Mill. Allen, however, is off the board, but Josh Rosen is available. NFL coaches and owners are wary of the sort of things Rosen has discussed to the media, and his open views could hurt him. Scouts have told us that his teammates don't like him either, so that's a major strike against him. And for the cherry on top, even if his high school coach criticized him. Rosen was prolific in some big games last year, so that could push him into the top spot, but as Charlie Campbell reported, two NFL general managers have expressed major concern about Rosen. Read more: http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php#ixzz5AgMK8rcLRead more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2018.php#1CRu0hJ9ZPHAzfXG.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Huh? Pine needles are like leaves that come off of pine trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Killa Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said: Reports say they prefer Darnold to Rosen. I suppose if Darnold goes 1, Rosen could go 2, but where is the Rosen to Giants thing coming from? Just assumptions from them taking him out to dinner and having private work outs with him. He speaks glowingly of the Giants like that’s where he is going. What other player have the owners dined with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxAF Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 41 minutes ago, T0mShane said: My takeaway, too. He sounds like he believes he’s going to be a Giant. Unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greensleeves Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 2 hours ago, jetspenguin said: lol I am a 48 year fan of this team....getting to the #3 pick.....in a draft that is QB heavy, in a year we have cash to spend is already enough to give me heart palpitations 6 days a week. To think we are actually gonna get the QB I want....and for the next 15 years throw it in the face of Giants fans? lmaoooo #NOTHAPPENING #TOOGOODTOBETRUE #BELIEVETHEWORST #JETFAN4LIFE #DARNOLDROSEN1&2FALKTOTHEJETSAT3 You must be a lot of fun to hang with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Greensleeves said: You must be a lot of fun to hang with. dont remember asking you to hang out with me actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetspenguin Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, nycdan said: That all sounds reasonable. On the other hand, Bowles anointed McCown the starter before training camp last season (hence why he took no snaps) and was said to have done the same already this season (although that is still unsubstantiated AFAIK). Maybe he'll surprise us, but whereas some coaches come out and say QB is an open competition, that does not appear to be Bowles' MO. So yeah, there is reasoning behind it. Maybe not completely accurate, but there is some meat on this bone. No, that is more along the lines of Bowles not having anyone on the team he (at the moment) sees that can beat out the starter. It still says nothing about rookies. In fact there are several examples of the opposite... Adams Mayes Williams Lee If the rookie is better than the rookie will play. We just havent had a rookie or young gun that is good enough. This summer will tell us all we need to know and if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsons Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, PS17 said: Steve Tisch and John Mara just had dinner with Rosen, and you can tell from his answers in this interview that he really liked them, and I’m sure they liked him. I think he’s the Giants’ guy, unfortunately for us. Mayfield Will be there @ #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Even if the Jets draft Allen. IMO Allen is far better than most of are projecting out here with some of us making preposterous comparisons to him and Hackenburg First Allen is a first five draft talent while Hake was a risk for the fourth round let alone the second. Second Allen is by all reports a great human being, hard worker and probably the most talented QB to come out in more than a decade. So if we end up with him we will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nycdan Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, jetspenguin said: No, that is more along the lines of Bowles not having anyone on the team he (at the moment) sees that can beat out the starter. It still says nothing about rookies. In fact there are several examples of the opposite... Adams Mayes Williams Lee If the rookie is better than the rookie will play. We just havent had a rookie or young gun that is good enough. This summer will tell us all we need to know and if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. And what do those four players have in common that is not shared by a QB? Agreed. We'll wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 6 hours ago, jetspenguin said: love this kid I never wanted a player more than I want this kid absolutely loved the interview and I think hes going to be a great one. As a matter of fact I like Mayfield Allen and Rudolph as well Darnold is a great kid but his throwing motion drives me nuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said: Just assumptions from them taking him out to dinner and having private work outs with him. He speaks glowingly of the Giants like that’s where he is going. What other player have the owners dined with? If the Giants think they can take one more solid shot at a SB with their current Roster and QB it would be stupid for them not to take Barkley because that kid will make that offense explode and fast. Since they are not unloading like we did and focusing on a rebuild it leads me to believe they may take that shot this year with Barkley. That leaves Cleveland and I think they would go with Darnold or Allen UNLESS Cleveland feels they can grab Barkley and still get the QB they want at 4 then maybe if the Giants are still in that one more shot mode they grab Chubb. So many scenarios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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