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How do you pass on Josh Allen?

Jetster

By Jetster
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Jetster

Jetster

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All I've read here from most Jet fans is that he's another Hackenberg but not one draft pundant I've listened too has made that comparison EVER. I listened to an NFL Sirius radio review of all of the QBs, from Phil Savage, Brady Quinn, Bill Polian and a few other guys and they all had critiques of each prospect. 

After listening & reading everything I could dive into over the last 2 weeks I'm leaning more towards 2 players in this draft & Josh Rosen is not one of them and here's why:

The first thing I need from a QB is durability, and Rosen hasn't proven he can stay on the field. Now, if you told me the NY Jets were also going to have a top 5 Oline, ok, I might think differently but each & every year, defensive players are more athletic than offensive lineman. So unless you have an Oline as good as the Eagles (GREAT OLINE!), your QB better have good pocket movement skills & be able to throw on the run.

So based on what the media is saying Sam Darnold is probably gone at #1. No one knows what the Giants are planning but if they don't take a QB or trade out, that leaves Rosen, Allen, Mayfield. 

I would have those 3 ranked Allen, Mayfield, Rosen. As a Jet fan, I'm honestly happy with either one. But, Allens upside is through the roof! Based on those interviews I listened to, the comparisons to Hackenberg? Ridiculous, Hack would never have been Mayocks #2 QB, then you have the Jamarcus Russell comparison, ridiculous, Allen can throw llike Jamarcus, runs better, and unlike Russell loves football, is a hard worker, leader, tough, and SMART, that's a huge difference based on the experts opinions. I liken Allen to Drew Bledsoe without cement shoes or bad work ethic, and much smarter on the chalk board. 

Baker Mayfield just HAS IT! You can't teach IT, and he has IT in spades. Too short, average arm, smallish hands, a little nutty off the field, but all the guy does is WIN, WIN, WIN! Wherever he goes. Mentally tough is a prerequisite in the NFL and I see Baker as a jump on my back, rise in this moment QB. Those types get everyone involved, raise everyone's confidence, and stay calm & perform in the most demanding moments like 2 minutes offenses, end of game drives ect.

So, there you have the Jetsters take on the QBs at 3. Allen, Mayfield, Rosen in that order. I think all 3 will be NFL QBs. The only reason Mayfield slips into 2nd is the durability issues of Rosen. Go Jets.

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Jetster

Jetster

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Looks like after Wentz & Goff it was a pretty sh*tty QB class so he wasn't wrong. Has any other QBs raised to the Wentz, Goff heights from that draft not on that list?

He had Hack last so it seems he got it right based on who was available to list.

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sec101row23

sec101row23

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If Mason Rudolph wore a headband and had this mythical “moxy” that people perceive Mayfield having, he would be getting a lot more attention.  

I’m having a hard time believing that Mayfield is a better prospect than Rudolph.   Other than “moxy” and the headband thing, what does Mayfield do better than Rudolph? And better yet why would transition to the NFL better than Rudolph?

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Jetster

Jetster

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2 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Mayfield has 9 1/2" hands and the strongest arm next to Allen. Just sayin. 

None of these guys critiqued him that way, I'm talking about others who critiqued him B4 he proved them wrong at the combine. 

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Grandy

Grandy

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11 minutes ago, Jetster said:

All I've read here from most Jet fans is that he's another Hackenberg but not one draft pundant I've listened too has made that comparison EVER. I listened to an NFL Sirius radio review of all of the QBs, from Phil Savage, Brady Quinn, Bill Polian and a few other guys and they all had critiques of each prospect. 

After listening & reading everything I could dive into over the last 2 weeks I'm leaning more towards 2 players in this draft & Josh Rosen is not one of them and here's why:

The first thing I need from a QB is durability, and Rosen hasn't proven he can stay on the field.

You do realize Allen has missed plenty of games in his career as well? Close to the same amount Rosen has. 

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JiFtheOracle

JiFtheOracle

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

If Mason Rudolph wore a headband and had this mythical “moxy” that people perceive Mayfield having, he would be getting a lot more attention.  

I’m having a hard time believing that Mayfield is a better prospect than Rudolph.   Other than “moxy” and the headband thing, what does Mayfield do better than Rudolph? And better yet why would transition to the NFL better than Rudolph?

Been saying this for a long time.  If Mason Rudolph ran around the field waving his arms and dancing and acting like the TD he just threw was his first and last ever, he'd be ranked just as high as Mayfield.  He does everything Mayfied does except he's actually built like a QB. 

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sec101row23

sec101row23

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2 minutes ago, JiF said:

Been saying this for a long time.  If Mason Rudolph ran around the field waving his arms and dancing and acting like the TD he just threw was his first and last ever, he'd be ranked just as high as Mayfield.  He does everything Mayfied does except he's actually built like a QB. 

Exactly.  What does Mayfield do or have that makes him so special?  I just don’t see it.  

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Jetster

Jetster

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2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

If Mason Rudolph wore a headband and had this mythical “moxy” that people perceive Mayfield having, he would be getting a lot more attention.  

I’m having a hard time believing that Mayfield is a better prospect than Rudolph.   Other than “moxy” and the headband thing, what does Mayfield do better than Rudolph? And better yet why would transition to the NFL better than Rudolph?

Everyone of the guys that broke down Baker Mayfield said he and Rosen were the most NFL ready QBs out of the group of 5. Darnold, Rosen, Allen, Mayfield, Jackson. 

They based that on movement in the pocket, keeping your eyes downfield & accuracy on the move which they all said Mayfield does better than any of the 5 except Darnold is good at throwing on the move too, but has WAY MORE TURNOVERS than Mayfield in those type of situations. 

They said Rosen is the 2nd most NFL ready QB but in the NFL you better be ready to move & Baker is just better than Rosen outside of the pocket. I was shocked listening to all five guys critiquing these 5 QBs. Mayfield other than his off the field crap is really highly rated as a guy that will succeed in the NFL. Brady Quinn just loves him & says you can't teach IT, and Mayfield has IT.

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Jetster

Jetster

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11 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

If Mason Rudolph wore a headband and had this mythical “moxy” that people perceive Mayfield having, he would be getting a lot more attention.  

I’m having a hard time believing that Mayfield is a better prospect than Rudolph.   Other than “moxy” and the headband thing, what does Mayfield do better than Rudolph? And better yet why would transition to the NFL better than Rudolph?

QBs that have played NFL football disagree with you. Mayfield is really highly rated by guys that have watched his tape, gone to the combine & seen him live. You guys here constantly harp on accuracy well Baker is considered the most accurate QB on the move in this draft. Polian said Mayfields accuracy was SHARP and that he has enough arm strength to throw the deep out & back shoulder throws needed to succeed in the league. But what all of them loved was Mayfields ability to move & keep his eyes downfield and throw Super accurately on the run! 

They said he's not Russell Wilson, but he's got just enough speed & movement skills to avoid pressure & make plays down the field. Obviously they see Allen with the highest upside but he needs a lot more seasoning, whereas Baker is NFL ready right now. 

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sec101row23

sec101row23

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Just now, Jetster said:

QBs that have played NFL football disagree with you. Mayfield is really highly rated by guys that have watched his tape, gone to the combine & seen him live. You guys here constantly harp on accuracy well Baker is considered the most accurate QB on the move in this draft. Polian said Mayfields accuracy was SHARP and that he has enough arm strength to throw the deep out & back shoulder throws needed to succeed in the league. But what all of them loved was Mayfields ability to move & keep his eyes downfield and throw Super accurately on the run! 

They said he's not Russell Wilson, but he's got just enough speed & movement skills to avoid pressure & make plays down the field. Obviously they see Allen with the highest upside but he needs a lot more seasoning, whereas Baker is NFL ready right now. 

We’ll see about that.  Plus the whole “has enough arm strength” thing will be tested as well.  I don’t think he does, or certainly not enough to take him before Allen, Rosen, Darnold or Rudolph.  

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Adoni Beast

Adoni Beast

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Still have Rosen as my #1. Mayfields accuracy is very good and thats the most important qb attribute. You gotta be able to complete passes.

But I agree Allen is no Hackenberg and the way the scouts/media love him, Hackenberg did not get the same love. So its not about just physical traits.

Allen is a big gamble, but one that I’ll be fine taking since I believe that’s exactly who we end up with if Rosen is off the board.

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JiFtheOracle

JiFtheOracle

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1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Exactly.  What does Mayfield do or have that makes him so special?  I just don’t see it.  

Nothing. This has been my contention vs. Mayfield the whole offseason.  All you can do is point to stats and that he's a fiery competitor.  He doesnt have size, he doesnt have the mechanics, he doesnt have impeccable pocket presence, his footwork is spotty, his arm is good enough and he's a mediocre at best athlete.  That doesnt sound like the 3# overall pick.  Yet, there are people acting like he's a cant miss prospect.  Bizarre.

Now, that's not to say he doesnt pan out but that's not exactly what you typically see taken at #3 overall (certainty not they type of player you trade 3 2nd round picks for).  I wouldnt touch Allen too but at least he truly is a special athlete/talent.  He does things you cant teach and things that Mayfield can only dream of doing on the Football field.

I hate the idea of anyone other than Rosen or Darnold at #3 but I hate the idea of not getting a QB worse.

This year is a mother ****er.  Wish we would have just taken Watson. 

 

 

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Jetster

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16 minutes ago, JiF said:

Been saying this for a long time.  If Mason Rudolph ran around the field waving his arms and dancing and acting like the TD he just threw was his first and last ever, he'd be ranked just as high as Mayfield.  He does everything Mayfied does except he's actually built like a QB. 

Than why didn't any of the 5 guys (ex-GMs like Savage & Polian, players like Quinn & Brooks ect) have Rudolph higher than Mayfield or even in the discussion? I'm not busting on you, just curious how guys that study these guys, attend live combines, observe at the games ect., not even one has ever exclaimed, "hold on, Mason Rudolph needs to be in the Baker Mayfield discussions because he's the same guy without the silly headband"?

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Jetster

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6 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nothing. This has been my contention vs. Mayfield the whole offseason.  All you can do is point to stats and that he's a fiery competitor.  He doesnt have size, he doesnt have the mechanics, he doesnt have impeccable pocket presence, his footwork is spotty, his arm is good enough and he's a mediocre at best athlete.  That doesnt sound like the 3# overall pick.  Yet, there are people acting like he's a cant miss prospect.  Bizarre.

Now, that's not to say he doesnt pan out but that's not exactly what you typically see taken at #3 overall (certainty not they type of player you trade 3 2nd round picks for).  I wouldnt touch Allen too but at least he truly is a special athlete/talent.  He does things you cant teach and things that Mayfield can only dream of doing on the Football field.

I hate the idea of anyone other than Rosen or Darnold at #3 but I hate the idea of not getting a QB either.

This year is a mother ****er.  Wish we would have just taken Watson. 

 

 

I would not want to be in Maccs position in this draft! If he misses he's a goner, pure & simple. Scares the hell out of me that after Darnold all of these so called experts are all over the place with Allen, Mayfield & Rosen. Watch us draft Barkley if Darnold, Rosen go one & two, lol. Everyone goes crazy, Teddy ballgame wins the QB job, Barkley has a MONSTER season, Enunwa wins comeback player of the year, Jets slip into the playoffs, lmao! 

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Untouchable

Untouchable

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40 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Exactly.  What does Mayfield do or have that makes him so special?  I just don’t see it.  

Jets fans see Mayfield grabbing his dick and talking sh*t to the opposing team and can’t help but fantasize about him in a Jets uniform doing the same to the Patriots on Sunday’s.

That’s what it really comes down to at the end of the day.

The Drew Brees and Russell Wilson comparisons are ridiculous IMO. Realistically, Mayfield’s ceiling is more akin to a Jeff Garcia. 

And I’m sure as sh*t not passing on potentially the next Big Ben in favor of the next Jeff Garcia.

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Pcola

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For everyone crying about durability, Josh Allen has missed more games the last three years than Josh Rosen.  

The Rosen haters should probably find something else to keep harping this guy for.

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Bruce Harper

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I don't think 3 is too high to pick Mayfield.  The guy is passionate, has more experience, great touch and a demonstrated history of performance.  He was an all-world college player.  He still has a chip on his shoulder and seems to me to be a good match with New York.  If he was two inches taller the media machine would have him at 1.  With his college tape and record of performance does he really need those two extra inches? 

Josh Allen, on the other hand:

Has only played two seasons.  Has had only so-so numbers in a second-tier conference.  Some people People compare him to Wentz because he is big and played in a lesser conference, but Wentz's numbers were much better, particularly as to completion percentage.

I've gotten a kick out of his media blitz, where he his telling people he has straightened out his footwork problems over the past few weeks and therefore will be much more accurate in the pros.  Call me skeptical.  It just doesn't happen that often.

Every year it seems that a large number of pundits fall in love with some guy who has a great combine performance that far exceeds his on-the-field performance.  It's usually someone with great tools, like Allen.  And in the end, it usually just shows why these guys, despite their "expertise," aren't working for teams.

I am very concerned about the possibility that we will draft Allen because of the appeal of his tools.  Because he has such a great arm and athletic ability we will likely give him every chance.  And before you know it, another 3-5 years of mediocrity, before we cut bait.

   

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JiFtheOracle

JiFtheOracle

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43 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Than why didn't any of the 5 guys (ex-GMs like Savage & Polian, players like Quinn & Brooks ect) have Rudolph higher than Mayfield or even in the discussion? I'm not busting on you, just curious how guys that study these guys, attend live combines, observe at the games ect., not even one has ever exclaimed, "hold on, Mason Rudolph needs to be in the Baker Mayfield discussions because he's the same guy without the silly headband"?

I've seen a few people have Rudolph over Mayfield.  His rankings have been all over the place though consistently one of the top 5/6..  Mayock has him tied for #5 with Jackson...only 2 spots behind Mayfield.  It's not like he's being talked about as a mid round guy.  I've seen plenty of mocks that have Rudolph going in the back of the first. 

And yes, I think Mayfield's histrionics make him more appealing than he really is.

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UnitedWhofans

UnitedWhofans

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Just now, JiF said:

lmfao - please explain how

Both ran these spread systems in college. Both are good inside and outside the pocket. Both in college  put up insane completion numbers. Mayfield had better stats than Watson, but played in a conference that plays very little defense, so that difference is a bit tainted.

The main difference between Mayfield and Watson is body size imo

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Doggin94it

Doggin94it

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1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Looks like after Wentz & Goff it was a pretty sh*tty QB class so he wasn't wrong. Has any other QBs raised to the Wentz, Goff heights from that draft not on that list?

He had Hack last so it seems he got it right based on who was available to list.

Dak Prescott was in that class, so ... no, no he didn't

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DMan77

DMan77

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Josh scares me (but I don't pretend to be an expert!) for three reasons:

1. Accuracy: I understand his OL wasn't great, and maybe his WRs weren't super stars... And I do realize that accuracy numbers never tell the whole story! But never having a completion percentage above 56 is worrisome and means something.

2. Footwork: When he's forced to move I don't think he looks great. He gets happy feet and skips around. He's big enough that he can tuck it and run and make it look ok, but will that work in the NFL? He looks like he's about to trip over his own feet sometimes..

3. Decision making: He takes a ton of chances. He tries to force a ton of balls. He looks for the homerun throw... Some people might love that. Some people may want a guy that takes the risks and chances. But I'd personally prefer a guy who can pull it back a little when needed. I think he goes into the huddle and into the snap with one plan and one plan only each time. He gets the ball knowing he's always looking for the HR, and if it's not there he sort of panics and that's where the poor decision making comes in.

So I don't know... Maybe those things are coachable? Maybe you take him because you can't teach that kind of arm strength? Also, I didn't watch it, but I've seen a few people say he did pretty well on those things during his proday? So I don't know..

At the end of the day they all have risks and make me nervous. 

 

 

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