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How do you pass on Josh Allen?


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1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Hack and Petty have poisoned the minds of Jets fans.  It’s now bad to be a big athletic qb

Yep

Apparently 22 year old, 6’5 240 QB’s with generational arm talent, freakish athleticism and a great work ethic are a big no-no unless they complete 70% of their passes.

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12 hours ago, Barton said:

You do realize the NFL right now lacks franchise QBs under the age of 32, right? Once Brees, Brady and Rodgers retire, there really isnt anyone special out there (who has produced multiple seasons) except maybe Andrew Luck.

I wouldn't mind if the next generation doesn't have such a head up on everyone else (probably because we haven't had a Top 10 QB in decades). In the end it is a bit unfair in the sense it's not great coaching/Scouting or whatever. You either hit gold in the draft then your  contender for the next 10 years or you do'nt and you putz along at 8-8 forever. I wouldn't mind if the QB position wasn't as predominent in the outcome of your season.

 

All this becomes moot if our next pick is a stud.:ph34r:

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7 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

Yep

Apparently 22 year old, 6’5 240 QB’s with generational arm talent, freakish athleticism and a great work ethic are a big no-no unless they complete 70% of their passes.

Well when they suck at football I would say yes.

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13 minutes ago, prime21 said:

If Allen was the only top QB available in the draft then I'm sure we would be begging to draft him.  Because many Jets have him ranked 3rd or 4th for QB's, they want no part of him.

I want Rosen before him and I have a feeling Baker will be a good QB but if we do draft Allen, I for one will be happy.  The goal is to get a franchise caliber QB and any one of the 4 can be that guy.

Exactly. I don't mind posters having their preferences. I prefer Darnold....Allen/Rosen....Mayfield. But I won't whine if we take Mayfield. I could see the justification for him being the guy they want.

If Allen is taken over Rosen/Mayfield, you will see many posters freak out even though they never watch college football and the only thing they know about Allen is his "OMG Comp Pct." #Hack-a-phobia

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1 minute ago, peebag said:

Well when they suck at football I would say yes.

If Allen truly sucked at football then he wouldn’t be a consensus Top 5 pick in the most top heavy QB class in recent memory.

Like I said, people can point to his lackluster completion percentage all day...but there’s a reason why guys like Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Phil Simms, Boomer, Daniel Jeremiah, etc all have him ranked ahead of the “fiery winner, chock-fulla moxy!” Baker Mayfield.

There’s a reason why a highly respected former scout and Giants GM runner-up like Louis Riddick has compared him to Dan Marino.

The kids potential is nutty nuts.

Jets fans denying that because they’re still traumatized over taking Hackenberg #51 overall is just dumb.

I haven’t spent dozens of hours breaking down “tape” on these kids so I’m not going to pretend as if I know more than the experts who get paid to do so.

If we take Allen, I’ll take solace in the fact that we have an extremely talented kid at QB who has legit franchise potential at the position. Something that this team has only possessed maybe twice in their damn near 60 year history.

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15 minutes ago, peebag said:

Well when they suck at football I would say yes.

Says who besides millennial football bloggers who never saw his games just googled his comp pct?

 

Simms, Mayock, McShay, Kiper etc all like Allen

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

If Allen truly sucked at football then he wouldn’t be a consensus Top 5 pick in the most top heavy QB class in recent memory.

Like I said, people can point to his lackluster completion percentage all day...but there’s a reason why guys like Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Phil Simms, Boomer, Daniel Jeremiah, etc all have him ranked ahead of the “fiery winner, chock-fulla moxy!” Baker Mayfield.

There’s a reason why a highly respected former scout and Giants GM runner-up like Louis Riddick has compared him to Dan Marino.

The kids potential is nutty nuts.

Jets fans denying that because they’re still traumatized over taking Hackenberg #51 overall is just dumb.

I haven’t spent dozens of hours breaking down “tape” on these kids so I’m not going to pretend as if I know more than the experts who get paid to do so.

If we take Allen, I’ll take solace in the fact that we have an extremely talented kid at QB who has legit franchise potential at the position. Something that this team has only possessed maybe twice in their damn near 60 year history.

This is correct!

Listen, the guys you mentioned are wrong all the time - like everyone else, but they do understand what skill-set is required to be a franchise NFL QB - Allen has all of the tools.  He's a top prospect for a reason.

Football isn't baseball, there are just way too many variables that live outside the numbers - If you watch Allen play - he's not an innacurate QB - he's an inconsistent thrower - but is also capable of putting a ball exactly where it needs to be. 

Guys are open for splits seconds in the NFL - Allen is a guy that can get the ball to the receiver in that split second.  Frankly, I'm less concerned with his accuracy than I am with can he handle the speed of the NFL game - if he can process data fast enough at the NFL level he's going to be the real deal.

He's at the top of my board.

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4 hours ago, RESNewYork said:

I am not into the don't like any prospect because they could be a Jet soon, and I'm going to root like hell they are successful. Do I prefer others over Mayfield? Yes.

And is it not a legitimate question? 

I don't know why YAC would favor any one of these guys over another.  To assume that it would make Mayfield's stats somehow less legitimate than the others reveals a bias, IMHO.

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19 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

I don't know why YAC would favor any one of these guys over another.  To assume that it would make Mayfield's stats somehow less legitimate than the others reveals a bias, IMHO.

Well the bias would stem from an uneven playing field. Just asking because just looking at W-L and stats can't be a predictor in trying to compare the QBs. If one QB has the most talent, and the other has the least amount of talent, wouldn't you think there would be a slant in overall production? 

And I asked about YAC from watching these game highlights. 

But don't worry Bruce, if Mayfield is a Jet, I am fan. 

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20 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

I don't know why YAC would favor any one of these guys over another.  To assume that it would make Mayfield's stats somehow less legitimate than the others reveals a bias, IMHO.

It absolutely holds water

80% of OU’s playbook consists of a bunch of smoke screens and short slants within 8 yards of the LoS.

So of course Mayfield’s completion percentage is going to be high. It’s an offense heavily predicated on the short passing game and receivers producing yards after the catch. That’s how basically all of these Big 12 offenses operate.

Allen on the other hand played in a pro-style system where he was routinely asked to take shots 30+ yards downfield.

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4 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

It absolutely holds water

80% of OU’s playbooks consists of a bunch of smoke screens and short slants within 8 yards of the LoS.

So of course Mayfield’s completion percentage is going to be high. It’s an offense heavily predicated on the short passing game and receivers producing yards after the catch. That’s how basically all of these Big 12 offenses operate.

Allen on the other hand played in a pro-style system where he was routinely asked to take shots 30+ yards downfield.

The same is true of the Patriots and I would suggest that it doesn't make Brady any less legitimate.  Allen's completion percentage is probably even worse on the short stuff as he appears to be weak in the touch department.  I'm not sure why so many people want to make excuses for Allen's mediocre stats at the same time as picking apart Mayfield's all-world stats.  It will be interesting to see who will be the better pro but if past performance is any indicator I wouldn't put a lot of money on Allen.

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8 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

The same is true of the Patriots and I would suggest that it doesn't make Brady any less legitimate.  Allen's completion percentage is probably even worse on the short stuff as he appears to be weak in the touch department.  I'm not sure why so many people want to make excuses for Allen's mediocre stats at the same time as picking apart Mayfield's all-world stats.  It will be interesting to see who will be the better pro but if past performance is any indicator I wouldn't put a lot of money on Allen.

The Patriots run one of the most complex offenses in football. Just because it’s predicated on a bunch of short, underneath stuff doesn’t mean that it’s the same ragtag, kindergarten offense that Oklahoma employs.

I think it was JiF who did a great job breaking down Mayfield’s on-field faults during the OU vs Georgia game. As soon as OU had to deviate away from the script in the 2nd half, Mayfield couldn't cope and looked completely lost at times.

People pick apart Mayfield’s stats because total bums at the NFL level like Kellen Moore and Colt Brennan produced all-world numbers in similar offensive systems. Stats mean dick in college. It’s all about how well your game translates to the pro level.

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4 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

The same is true of the Patriots and I would suggest that it doesn't make Brady any less legitimate.  Allen's completion percentage is probably even worse on the short stuff as he appears to be weak in the touch department.  I'm not sure why so many people want to make excuses for Allen's mediocre stats at the same time as picking apart Mayfield's all-world stats.  It will be interesting to see who will be the better pro but if past performance is any indicator I wouldn't put a lot of money on Allen.

I was about to say the same thing.

YAC also shows a QB has to be accurate.  You have to it the receiver in such a way he can make a move, hit him in stride.

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9 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

It absolutely holds water

80% of OU’s playbooks consists of a bunch of smoke screens and short slants within 8 yards of the LoS.

So of course Mayfield’s completion percentage is going to be high. It’s an offense heavily predicated on the short passing game and receivers producing yards after the catch. That’s how basically all of these Big 12 offenses operate.

Allen on the other hand played in a pro-style system where he was routinely asked to take shots 30+ yards downfield.

I don't know how legit this is but this analysis suggests that Mayfield is the most accurate deep passer of the bunch.

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/pro-football-focus-baker-mayfield-most-accurate-deep-passer-among-draft-eligible-qbs/4qQ4LMarD2D232lzGmZoGO/

 

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I love Baker Mayfield's attitude and feel like it would go over great with the fans in new York . The problem as I see it is that Mayfield maybe Mark Sanchez with an attitude .

People feel all over themselves with Sanchez because of his completion  percentage and what he did at USC, but folks refused to see just how wide open his receivers were that allowed him to complete so many passes . I fear the same thing is happening with Mayfield and the same folks are falling for the same fools gold .  

In My opinion, you take Josh Rosen if he's there or you take the BPA and find a way to acquire the Kid with the highest completion percentage in college football this year in the person of Luke Falk who in my opinion is a bigger stronger sturdier Chad Pennington .

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10 hours ago, Untouchable said:

The Patriots run one of the most complex offenses in football. Just because it’s predicated on a bunch of short, underneath stuff doesn’t mean that it’s the same ragtag, kindergarten offense that Oklahoma employs.

I think it was JiF who did a great job breaking down Mayfield’s on-field faults during the OU vs Georgia game. As soon as OU had to deviate away from the script in the 2nd half, Mayfield couldn't cope and looked completely lost at times.

People pick apart Mayfield’s stats because total bums at the NFL level like Kellen Moore and Colt Brennan produced all-world numbers in similar offensive systems. Stats mean dick in college. It’s all about how well your game translates to the pro level.

So why’s he being considered a high pick and those guys barely got drafted? The moxie is that high? He must be doing something right. 

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On 3/27/2018 at 2:27 PM, Bruce Harper said:

I don't know why YAC would favor any one of these guys over another.  To assume that it would make Mayfield's stats somehow less legitimate than the others reveals a bias, IMHO.

Did you actually watch Mayfield’s games he throws a ton of dumpoffs and screens

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2 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

So why’s he being considered a high pick and those guys barely got drafted? The moxie is that high? He must be doing something right. 

I highly doubt he gets drafted before the Darnold/Rosen/Allen trio. He's a mid first rounder, assuming a team doesn't trade up, he falls out of the top 10 to the Dolphins/Bills/Cardinals for his most likely landing spot.

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2 hours ago, MDL_JET said:

So why’s he being considered a high pick and those guys barely got drafted? The moxie is that high? He must be doing something right. 

Oh, the moxie is extremely high, my friend.

If Mayfield had the kind of athleticism and arm talent that a Russell Wilson possesses, then I’d be much more in favor of taking the chance.

Bottom line, he doesn’t.

So unless he happens to be the extremely rare, f*cking unicorn-esque guy that Drew Brees is...odds are he’s more Case Keenum than he is #9.

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I love Baker Mayfield's attitude and feel like it would go over great with the fans in new York . The problem as I see it is that Mayfield maybe Mark Sanchez with an attitude .
People feel all over themselves with Sanchez because of his completion  percentage and what he did at USC, but folks refused to see just how wide open his receivers were that allowed him to complete so many passes . I fear the same thing is happening with Mayfield and the same folks are falling for the same fools gold .  
In My opinion, you take Josh Rosen if he's there or you take the BPA and find a way to acquire the Kid with the highest completion percentage in college football this year in the person of Luke Falk who in my opinion is a bigger stronger sturdier Chad Pennington .

Don’t see a lot in common with Sanchez. Most importantly, Mayfield overcame the odds to start for four years and had a MUCH better college career than Sanchez.


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If Allen truly sucked at football then he wouldn’t be a consensus Top 5 pick in the most top heavy QB class in recent memory.
Like I said, people can point to his lackluster completion percentage all day...but there’s a reason why guys like Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Phil Simms, Boomer, Daniel Jeremiah, etc all have him ranked ahead of the “fiery winner, chock-fulla moxy!” Baker Mayfield.
There’s a reason why a highly respected former scout and Giants GM runner-up like Louis Riddick has compared him to Dan Marino.
The kids potential is nutty nuts.
Jets fans denying that because they’re still traumatized over taking Hackenberg #51 overall is just dumb.
I haven’t spent dozens of hours breaking down “tape” on these kids so I’m not going to pretend as if I know more than the experts who get paid to do so.
If we take Allen, I’ll take solace in the fact that we have an extremely talented kid at QB who has legit franchise potential at the position. Something that this team has only possessed maybe twice in their damn near 60 year history.

Like Parcells said, potential just means you haven’t done anything yet. And Allen had plenty of opportunity to do something against lesser competition. Derek Carr lit up that conference. Give me someone who has already done something.


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Josh Allen has already proven something that is invaluable going from College to the pros, he's smart as a f*cking whip & has a mad work ethic! F*ck all these other stats & comparisons (Jamarcus Russell), give me a f*cking break. Allen has more moxie in his pinkie finger compared to Russell.

Hackenberg? Again, someone find me some clips of Hackenberg doing some of the sh*t Allen has done in his career, running for his life & zipping a 30 yard TD on the run. 

Allen has all of the 1st parts needed to be a great one. 6-5", incredibly athletic, wicked smart, tough as hell, amazing arm strength, and according to everyone who's ever been associated with him he's a leader & has a super high work ethic.

That means he will take to coaching. QBs that don't WORK AT THEIR CRAFT don't get better, see Mark Sanchez (totally immature, fooled around too much). Allen won't fail because he didn't work hard enough. I want Allen or Rosen, and with Macc knowing that the odds are good Darnold will go to the Browns (I would not be shocked if the Browns take Allen, he's literally built for a rust belt team), it's obvious to me the top 3 are Darnold, Allen, Rosen.

Thats why the Jets aren't sweating their decision & frankly, I believe don't give a f*ck what the Giants do. The Jets did their homework, they know this is the 2nd year of the rebuild so there is no pressure on the guy we pick & one of these 3 will be sitting there at 3 when our pick comes up. 

Would have been nice to lose a few more games but Macc basically got a 2nd for Sheldon who was leaving anyway, so 2 seconds to get one of those three will be the best trade the Jets have made in years. A QB instead of Alex Vandyke, Stephen Hill, Vlad Ducasse, lol, I'll take it 10 times over!

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