Lamar Jackson Should (Apparently) be the #1 Pick, and If You Don't Agree You Are Probably a Racist/Racially Biased

[Untouchable]

28 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Also, just watched it? Haven't you been oiling up his chest and back for a few weeks... and you're just NOW watching his games? 

That, in a nut shell, is the Allen bandwagon. 

The hell are you talking about? I watched it live.

I was pointing to a specific game where his talent jumps out. And it just so happened to be the most important game of his college career.

[Sperm Edwards]

There are some real lowlife pieces of work out there, but I think there are some big assumptions being made in this article. They don't list or release the teams that asked him to do some WR drills, but on the other hand, Jackson said not one team asked him if he'd be willing to change to WR instead of QB. I think that's telling: if you're looking to draft him exclusively to play WR you'd surely want to know if he's even open to the idea before burning a pick between 20-40 on him, not after. 

It's possible teams may like him at QB, but don't view him as a sure thing (like many QBs who eventually get drafted in that range instead of higher). Could be they want to see if there's an opportunity to hedge, and therefore help rationalize a higher pick; that if he doesn't work out at QB they could still have a different position starter worthy of a high 2nd on their hands. I don't know that those that wanted to see his WR skills necessarily disliked him as a QB; just if they're going to invest a high pick in him - and a high pick will be necessary to get him - and if he's such an athletic freak, why not see all he's capable of beforehand?

Could it also be that the (allegedly 2-3) teams that asked him to do some WR drills are already set with a starting FQB? If he was drafted purely to be a backup QB for such a team, he might not be worth more than a 4th rounder, and they could never get Jackson that late. On the other hand if he also showed real ability and skill (and of course, willingness) as a starting WR-RB hybrid like Harvin, who could also step in & start at QB in a pinch, he'd naturally have more value to them.

Also **** anything Bill Polian says. He's got to be the most overrated GM in NFL history. Beyond that, he's not a current GM who could have the above legit reasons for seeing him also work out as a non-QB, so the shoe might fit him more: hate away.

[Sonny Werblin]

38 minutes ago, BrickTamland said:

I have never seen an electrifying athlete succeed longterm as a nfl qb.

I will say that vick had a few nice years and so did rg3 but these guys get hurt regularly, killing their value regardless of their talent.

Vick had a prison time issue, not an injury problem.

[BrickTamland]

6 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Vick had a prison time issue in addition to an injury problem which was very unfortunate because he really was beginning to develop as a passer with the eagles.

Agree and disagree. My opinion above.

[jgb]

Yes this racist league that took Vick at 1, Jamarcus at 1, RG3 at 2. 

[MDL_JET]

Lamar Jackson will end up being one of the better QBs in this class. Mark it down folks.

[jgb]

Just now, MDL_JET said:

Lamar Jackson will end up being one of the better QBs in this class. Mark it down folks.

I hope this happens to again emphasize that when it comes to QBs, nobody knowns nuffin.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, Kleckineau said:

Isnt this guy RGIII and if yes woudnt he get killed by year 2 - 3?

Pretty much....

[MDL_JET]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I hope this happens to again emphasize that when it comes to QBs, nobody knowns nuffin.

There's probably a couple later round QBs that could end up just as good as well. Then we'll all be talking about how this team passed on player X....along with Prescott and others.

[jmat321]

We already have Terrell Pryor on our roster

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Just watch the biggest of them. Potato Bowl against Central Michigan.

Just how much of a freak he is at the position is abundantly clear.

Grown in a lab with generational arm talent. 

Has also been the top performer at QB among these guys this offseason and the dedication to improving his footwork and the touch and ball placement on his throws is clearly evident. You take him at #3, sit him behind Teddy and McCown for a year and you might really have something.

The people who compare this guy to Hack are just goofs. Go back and look at Hack at the combine. He’s sailing the ball 4 feet above guys heads on simple little 20 yard posts against air.

Allen has killed everything thrown at him this offseason and legitimately has the highest upside of any of these QB’s.

Why so many act like it would be sacrilegious to take him over a guy like Mayfield is beyond me.

You are right about one thing:  He is certainly the offseason champion. Let's give him his crown but let someone else draft him.  I would just feel more comfortable if he had shown as much in the actual games that counted.  Glad as I am  that he is committed to improving his footwork it is my strong belief that you don't draft projects at #3.

[JetFreak89]

First of all, this thread title is complete BS, looks like Fish is trying to stir the pot and drive up post counts on hyperbole. Nowhere in the article does it mention him needing to be the first pick. If you actually read the article, they make a number of good points but the main one being that if a white QB put up the exact same numbers and tape as Jackson, they wouldn't be asked to work out as a WR. I tend to agree with them. 

[Paradis]

The hell are you talking about? I watched it live.
I was pointing to a specific game where his talent jumps out. And it just so happened to be the most important game of his college career.

Sorry I read that wrong. I thought you said just watched. Not just watch.

I’d argue the most important game part. His games vs power 5 teams will hold more weight during evaluations IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CTM]

Wasn't Tebow asked to try out as TE? Running QB's who aren't great passers get asked to try different positions. Thread title is more histrionic than article however. 

Humans have a tendency to group things based on family resemblance, Allen looks like what the old timers think a QB should look like (and doesn't look like a TE, whereas Tebow did). Jackson looks more like what a WR normally looks like. Race is a factor for sure.

I would take Jackson before Allen personally.

[Sonny Werblin]

7 minutes ago, BrickTamland said:

Agree and disagree. My opinion above.

2001: I do not believe Vick had any injuries. Chris Chandler started 14 games and Vick Started 2 and played in 8.

2002: Started 15 games and missed 1 game with a sprained shoulder; Plus 2 more playoff starts.

2003: Fractured Fibula in pre-season game - missed 11 games then started the final 5 games of the season.

2004: started 15 games; missed 1 game (I presume to an injury but do not know the nature of it); Also started 2 playoff games getting his team to the conference championship.

2005: started 15 games; missed 1 game (I presume to an injury but do not know the nature of it).

2006: Started 16 games - no injuries

2007 --- Prison ... 

So, in the 5 seasons after being named the starting QB he played in 70 out of 84 games. That is 14 games missed and 11 of those were do to a broken fibula. After he returned from the broken fibula, he missed 2 solitary non-consecutive games and played in 53 of 55 games.

Mike Vick was not an often injured QB. He had the one broken bone that caused him to miss 11 games, and that is pretty much it.

[NYs Stepchild]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Jackson is more accurate than Allen:

 

Target drop passes percentages:

Lamar Jackson - 8.5% Baker Mayfield - 8.0% Josh Rosen - 7.5% Mason Rudolph - 6.6% Josh Allen - 4.8% Sam Darnold - 4.3%

 

The thinking that he's too small could have some merit, however.  He'll need to get bigger in the weight room to feel confident in his ability to stay healthy.  6-3 is fine.  Only 200 lbs is not.  Baker Mayfield, though 2 inches shorter, is listed at 215.  

Too small? Sounds racist to me. No one cares what color Jackson is. They care that he's a run first QB. No one discounted Jamis for being black. 

Dropped passes and completion % do not add up to accuracy.

You need to watch the games and see where the ball is thrown, the separation the receivers get and a large part of it would be if the receivers are on the same page as the QB. Quality of receivers matter more than just drops. Coaching/scheme/Oline matters too.

 

[NYs Stepchild]

9 minutes ago, CTM said:

Wasn't Tebow asked to try out as TE? Running QB's who aren't great passers get asked to try different positions. Thread title is more histrionic than article however. 

Humans have a tendency to group things based on family resemblance, Allen looks like what the old timers think a QB should look like (and doesn't look like a TE, whereas Tebow did). Jackson looks more like what a WR normally looks like. Race is a factor for sure.

I would take Jackson before Allen personally.

If Tebow were white he'd be a starting QB today. 

[Grandy]

I don't know why everyone's making this a race issue, it's ridiculous.

Since 2011, there's been as many Black QB's taken #1 overall as White QB's, and every year but 2016, a Black QB has been one of the top 2 QB's picked in every draft.

Now I do think that the Lamar Jackson WR thing is ridiculous, but it's not a race issue.

[BrickTamland]

12 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

2001: I do not believe Vick had any injuries. Chris Chandler started 14 games and Vick Started 2 and played in 8.

2002: Started 15 games and missed 1 game with a sprained shoulder; Plus 2 more playoff starts.

2003: Fractured Fibula in pre-season game - missed 11 games then started the final 5 games of the season.

2004: started 15 games; missed 1 game (I presume to an injury but do not know the nature of it); Also started 2 playoff games getting his team to the conference championship.

2005: started 15 games; missed 1 game (I presume to an injury but do not know the nature of it).

2006: Started 16 games - no injuries

2007 --- Prison ... 

So, in the 5 seasons after being named the starting QB he played in 70 out of 84 games. That is 14 games missed and 11 of those were do to a broken fibula. After he returned from the broken fibula, he missed 2 solitary non-consecutive games and played in 53 of 55 games.

Mike Vick was not an often injured QB. He had the one broken bone that caused him to miss 11 games, and that is pretty much it.

good breakdown. youre skipping everything with eagles though. he never had a complete season. fwiw he himself says that because of his playing style, his career was shortened and he never reached the levels he wished he had, ie my whole point.

[New York Mick]

I’m ******* shocked this didn’t get locked. 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 minute ago, BrickTamland said:

good breakdown. youre skipping everything with eagles though. he never had a complete season. fwiw he himself says that because of his playing style, his career was shortened and he never reached the levels he wished he had, ie my whole point.

Uhmmm...... prison?  It has a way of changing a person's priorities as well as body composition and such. I'm not saying he would not have been injured had he not gone to prison. But post prison Vick was a shell of pre prison Vick. 

[Integrity28]

Folks that work this hard to prove they aren’t bigots, are usually bigots. 

[joewilly12]

9 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

I’m ******* shocked this didn’t get locked. 

[BrickTamland]

52 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Uhmmm...... prison?  It has a way of changing a person's priorities as well as body composition and such. I'm not saying he would not have been injured had he not gone to prison. But post prison Vick was a shell of pre prison Vick. 

You're digging in pretty hard on your stance and I respect that. I am going to stick with my stance:

2 hours ago, BrickTamland said:

I have never seen an electrifying athlete succeed longterm as a nfl qb.

I will say that vick had a few nice years and so did rg3 but these guys get hurt regularly, killing their value regardless of their talent.

Vick was the definition of electrifying player. But even with his skills, he was not a very successful longterm qb. 

On the left are Vick's stats as a passer with Falcons from 2001 to 2006. As we know, Vick's value was as a rusher (on the right)

         

In 2002, Vick's first year as a starter (second row) Falcons made the playoffs at 9-6-1 and they got a W against the Packers in the playoffs. That was Vick's best year as a Falcon, and frankly, I'd say it was his only good year playing the QB position with the Falcons. The numbers speak for themselves. 

In 2003, Vick missed the first 12 games due to an injury that he sustained because he was scrambling around in a preseason game. They missed playoffs.

In 2004, Falcons made the playoffs with 11-5 record. They beat the Rams in the divisional and lost to the Eagles in the NFCCG.

In 2005, 8-8 record.

In 2006, 7-9 record.

As you noted, Vick went on to prison from there. Thereafter he was with the Eagles from 2009-2013. He would have a couple of very good years with them but would never play in more than 13 games. Passing stats on left and rushing stats on right. He was still a phenomenal athlete and even seemed to have developed as a passer. 2010 was a fantastic year for him.

   

Throughout the course of his career he exposed himself to many unnecessary hits and the number of games he managed to play in despite those hits is commendable. In 2013  at the relatively young QB age of 33, he was basically done. That is despite the fact that he had 2 years off from the NFL's hits (2007-2008).

Michael Vick was getting hit a lot. Whether on scrambles or trying to run around in the pocket. I remember watching him and being amazed and yet being on my toes ready for him to get smashed at any moment. In my opinion, the fact that he appeared in x amount of games belittles the point that he was always sustaining hits and making himself vulnerable to injuries.

In my opinion, he was an electrifying athlete who was not a very successful longterm Qb. And I am not aware of any others.

[rex-n-effect]

I like QBs that can run but I don't like QBs that run this much. The injury risk is really high and too often they zero in on running in the face of pressure which increases the likelihood of injury. The quality of NFL talent is higher across the board which means more pressure and more effective tacklers, which translates to more running and more injury risk.

Mobile QBs only have long, successful careers when they learn to throw first and run second which rarely happens. I don't want to take a QB at three to have to either teach him to play the game entirely differently or worry constantly about injuries--especially not with other options on the board. I do think he belongs in the first round and would be a huge coup for a team that can take him as a backup and give him a year or two to work on passing more and running less. He could easily be another Steve Young. Throw him out there as a starter and he could be RG3 (personality notwithstanding). 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

Wasn't Tebow asked to try out as TE? Running QB's who aren't great passers get asked to try different positions. Thread title is more histrionic than article however. 

Humans have a tendency to group things based on family resemblance, Allen looks like what the old timers think a QB should look like (and doesn't look like a TE, whereas Tebow did). Jackson looks more like what a WR normally looks like. Race is a factor for sure.

I would take Jackson before Allen personally.

Tebow was at least drafted as a 1st round QB...somehow.

A better example I'd use was that 6'6" tall 240-lb QB from like a decade ago who ran a sub-4.4 at the combine, and may have had an arm, too. Something Jones? They said to him probably, that because he was this physical freak of nature who ran like the wind he'd at least be given a shot to convert to WR, otherwise as a QB risk never being an NFL starter (maybe not even a backup).

IIRC he eventually went with curtain #3 and instead decided on a career of snorting blow. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

Also, just watched it? Haven't you been oiling up his chest and back for a few weeks... and you're just NOW watching his games? 

That, in a nut shell, is the Allen bandwagon. 

Oiling up his chest?

Lol

[CTM]

5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Tebow was at least drafted as a 1st round QB...somehow.

A better example I'd use was that 6'6" tall 240-lb QB from like a decade ago who ran a sub-4.4 at the combine, and may have had an arm, too. Something Jones? They said to him probably, that because he was this physical freak of nature who ran like the wind he'd at least be given a shot to convert to WR, otherwise as a QB risk never being an NFL starter (maybe not even a backup).

IIRC he eventually went with curtain #3 and instead decided on a career of snorting blow. 

Matt Jones.

I think Lamar Jackson gets drafted as a QB too though

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, CTM said:

Matt Jones.

I think Lamar Jackson gets drafted as a QB too though

I guarantee he'll get drafted as a QB. Not one team asked him about converting. If he flops as a QB like Pryor, he can think about converting at that time. Until then, he's doing the right thing by not even considering it. It's not like it's going to really cost him in the draft. If you want him early, you want him as a QB not as a maybe WR. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Where does the article say you’re a racist if you don’t think Lamar Jackson should be picked first overall?

[Integrity28]

Insecure white men really are hilarious in their predictability.

[Sonny Werblin]

26 minutes ago, BrickTamland said:

You're digging in pretty hard on your stance and I respect that. I am going to stick with my stance:

Vick was the definition of electrifying player. But even with his skills, he was not a very successful longterm qb. 

On the left are Vick's stats as a passer with Falcons from 2001 to 2006. As we know, Vick's value was as a rusher (on the right)

         

In 2002, Vick's first year as a starter (second row) Falcons made the playoffs at 9-6-1 and they got a W against the Packers in the playoffs. That was Vick's best year as a Falcon, and frankly, I'd say it was his only good year playing the QB position with the Falcons. The numbers speak for themselves. 

In 2003, Vick missed the first 12 games due to an injury that he sustained because he was scrambling around in a preseason game. They missed playoffs.

In 2004, Falcons made the playoffs with 11-5 record. They beat the Rams in the divisional and lost to the Eagles in the NFCCG.

In 2005, 8-8 record.

In 2006, 7-9 record.

As you noted, Vick went on to prison from there. Thereafter he was with the Eagles from 2009-2013. He would have a couple of very good years with them but would never play in more than 13 games. Passing stats on left and rushing stats on right. He was still a phenomenal athlete and even seemed to have developed as a passer. 2010 was a fantastic year for him.

   

Throughout the course of his career he exposed himself to many unnecessary hits and the number of games he managed to play in despite those hits is commendable. In 2013  at the relatively young QB age of 33, he was basically done. That is despite the fact that he had 2 years off from the NFL's hits (2007-2008).

Michael Vick was getting hit a lot. Whether on scrambles or trying to run around in the pocket. I remember watching him and being amazed and yet being on my toes ready for him to get smashed at any moment. In my opinion, the fact that he appeared in x amount of games belittles the point that he was always sustaining hits and making himself vulnerable to injuries.

In my opinion, he was an electrifying athlete who was not a very successful longterm Qb. And I am not aware of any others.

Steve Young, Cam Newton, Roger Staubach, Donovan McNabb, John Elway, Randall Cunningham, Fran Tarkenton, and Steve McNair say hello.  Like the way I alternated races? White guys can be electrifying athletes too.

 

 

[Larz]

Meh

Winston went #1 overall recently 

Just stupid trolling 

[T0mShane]

I think two things are possible:

1. The NFL has an Old White Executive problem 

and

2. Lamar may not come off as extremely bright

 

[BrickTamland]

13 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Steve Young, Cam Newton, Roger Staubach, Donovan McNabb, John Elway, Randall Cunningham, Fran Tarkenton, and Steve McNair say hello.  Like the way I alternated races? White guys can be electrifying athletes too.

 

 

You've gone off the track here bringing race into this. Nice way of responding.

You sound foolish with these comparisons. Newton (4.59) and McNabb (4.64) are the same type of electrifying athlete as Vick (4.33), RG3 (4.41) and Jackson (~4.3 per his word). Nice try.